Geno and the Super Bowl

[BASF]

Sorry I don't see him as a SB level QB.

Define Super Bowl level QB.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's never even won a playoff game. Can he win a SB? Mayble. Time will tell. I just don't get why he seems to be above any criticism by some (not all)
I've said my peace.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Good vs great isn't really relevant. It's just a subjective label people put on players. Geno is a starting QB in the league, he completed close to 70% of his passes, 4200 yards in the air, and threw 30 TDs. In my book that's more than good enough to take a team to the promised land provided the rest of the squad is up to par.

A better thread, IMO, would debate the Seahawks defense being playoff caliber or even discuss the interior offensive line play that was atrocious last year and completely limited what we could accomplish. Those factors are more relevant to me when judging the trajectory of the Seahawks in 2023. Geno is the last thing I'm worried about.

 

[CallMeADawg]

He's never even won a playoff game. Can he win a SB? Mayble. Time will tell. I just don't get why he seems to be above any criticism by some (not all)
I've said my peace.

Geno can't play defense nor is he an interior OL. My point is that people are just piling on Geno when there's far more limiting factors. If the rest of the squad performs up to snuff and we still don't make a playoff push then I think it's time to analyse the QB play deeper. I do not think we are at that point though. If we addressed the defense issues and interior OL problems Seattle had a much better shot.

I'll say another thing as well. With the addition of JSN and Charbonnet no one can say Geno is lacking playmakers and I'd expect even better production from the offense in 2023.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. Should be fun to watch this offense.

 

[Ozzy]

Teams adjusted to what the offensive coordinator was calling. Shane did not make enough adjustments. But, hey only Geno can be blamed for the plays being run. Russ apologists will always knock the QB when it isn't him.

whoever said only Geno can be blamed or that it has anything to do with Russ? This is a goofy response and you're guilty of what you're claiming I am guilty of. Most of those turnover worthy throws were on Geno. Waldron while doing great for being in year two can get better too. You're essentially blaming everyone but Geno while calling everyone else out. Again this stuff isn't binary or us vs them.

 

[Ozzy]

I've not heard one coach question the call. As a matter of fact, even Bill B said it was a good call.

And if Brady threw that route to his grandma, it would still be on the body, behind the pick, not beyond it.

Russ never ran it with ADB, Dk, or anyone else because like screens, he couldn't properly place balls low that were just beyond the line of scrimmage.

He couldn't make the play.

Coaches have agreed a pass in that situation was a good call. I can't find a single source agreeing with that specific call against Browner and with your personnel set. two wildly different things. I completely agree with a pass there, I don't agree with thinking Kearse who was subpar in that regard beating someone who was the absolute best in that regard.

If he couldn't make the play then shouldn't you be criticizing Bevell/Pete for calling it? Somes convienent to leave that out.

 

[CallMeADawg]

whoever said only Geno can be blamed or that it has anything to do with Russ? This is a goofy response and you're guilty of what you're claiming I am guilty of. Most of those turnover worthy throws were on Geno. Waldron while doing great for being in year two can get better too. You're essentially blaming everyone but Geno while calling everyone else out. Again this stuff isn't binary or us vs them.

Geno certainly needs to iron out his game. Every QB does. Every QB has TO worthy throws in a season. Geno did start for the first season in a long time, so I'd expect some correctable issues to happen. I still don't get why people think Seattle's super bowl chances are limited due to Geno Smith. From what I saw, he's the last thing to worry about.

 

[BASF]

whoever said only Geno can be blamed or that it has anything to do with Russ?

Literally only one other person on this site has even mentioned Waldron's play calling for the late season struggles of the offense. Even though Geno's "turnover worthy throws" as determined by PFF (who believes Ryan Neal is an All-Pro, but gets the lowest possible one year contract he could get from actual NFL executives), get brought up almost daily. The Russ portion is the comedy that most of the Geno detractors were the ones always blaming Pete or the offensive coordinators for Wilson short comings, but when it comes to the Waldron portion, crickets.

This is a goofy response and you're guilty of what you're claiming I am guilty of. Most of those turnover worthy throws were on Geno. Waldron while doing great for being in year two can get better too. You're essentially blaming everyone but Geno while calling everyone else out. Again this stuff isn't binary or us vs them.

I have never once claimed that Geno was not responsible for throwing the football. Just trying to balance out the only Geno can be blamed for corners jumping routes that have been called too many times in the same situation (down and distance, quarter, time left in game).

 

[keasley45]

If russ can't make that play, wouldn't that make that a bad call?

Glad you said that.

I think every offresive coordinator he's had who's been let go (all of them) would argue that at what point is the problem not the call, but the QB? Its a realization that JS apparently had as early as the close of the 2018 season. I'm sure it was a point of disagreement between Schotty and PC - When is the offense not working a result of a QB not being good enough, rather than a coordinator not calling plays his qb cant (but should) be able to run?

Schotty quite frequently called an offense that made sense and should have been much more successful than it was.... and it failed because of execution by the QB. He called a solid game in the infamous WC loss to the Rams thay cost him his job, because Russ couldnt do simple things like hit open WR for first downs. And it cost SChotty his job. When Schotty left, Russ ran it his way and Walkdron was sidelined. But what Russ thought would happen *the offensive exploding) never did. WHY? Because the stuff he knows how to run had been figured out long ago.

So in the reality that was created by catering to ME3, there were Russ's plays ... .. .. and then there were other plays - other calls... or as you termed it, 'bad calls'. Not bad because they were wrong. But bad because the QB that was allowed to call the shots, painted your offense into a every shrinking shoebox sized play book that was tailored to his skills... but had been all but solved by the league.

So yeah. It was a great call for any QB not named Russel Wilson. Or sub in my name, because i couldnt have made the pass either. But every play that i couldnt run was a 'bad call', the only good calls would be hand-offs.

Oh, wait.. maybe thats why PC always preached running more.

Hmmm...

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Glad you said that.

I think every offresive coordinator he's had who's been let go (all of them) would argue that at what point is the problem not the call, but the QB? Its a realization that JS apparently had as early as the close of the 2018 season. I'm sure it was a point of disagreement between Schotty and PC - When is the offense not working a result of a QB not being good enough, rather than a coordinator not calling plays his qb cant (but should) be able to run?

Schotty quite frequently called an offense that made sense and should have been much more successful than it was.... and it failed because of execution by the QB. He called a solid game in the infamous WC loss to the Rams thay cost him his job, because Russ couldnt do simple things like hit open WR for first downs. And it cost SChotty his job. When Schotty left, Russ ran it his way and Walkdron was sidelined. But what Russ thought would happen *the offensive exploding) never did. WHY? Because the stuff he knows how to run had been figured out long ago.

So in the reality that was created by catering to ME3, there were Russ's plays ... .. .. and then there were other plays - other calls... or as you termed it, 'bad calls'. Not bad because they were wrong. But bad because the QB that was allowed to call the shots, painted your offense into a every shrinking shoebox sized play book that was tailored to his skills... but had been all but solved by the league.

So yeah. It was a great call for any QB not named Russel Wilson. Or sub in my name, because i couldnt have made the pass either. But every play that i couldnt run was a 'bad call', the only good calls would be hand-offs.

Oh, wait.. maybe thats why PC always preached running more.

Hmmm...

I'm not disagreeing with anything there, my question I guess, if this is a bad play for Russ, why not call a play you know he excels at? I've been complaining since the moment the pick happened, they should have had Russ roll out of the pocket. He excels at throws on the run and if no one is open, throw the ball out of the end zone, stop the clock and set up the next 2 plays.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You guys are never going to let it go are you.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

NEVER
Just watch, same thing on here in 2027

 

[flv2]

Geno led the league in turnover worthy throws and by luck also had the fewest % of those plays picked off. Geno surprised me a ton last year and I'm hopeful he can have an even better year this year but he had some things he surely needs to shore up this year. Getting JSN should help.

Curiously Stafford led the league in turnover worthy throws in 2021 and won the Super Bowl. He also had considerable luck in not having a worse interception rate. Tagovailoa would have 'won' the turnover worthy award in 2022 hands down if it wasn't for his concussion issues.

 

[Torc]

The other guy had a top 10 offense 8 out 10 seasons. Probably 9 if he didn't get injured. While doing it with less attempts. They are obviously scoring more points then most teams. Isn't that what matters, instead of trying to cherry pick a stat? He has 35 GWD 27 4th quarter comeback. Im pretty sure you're wrong w/ the 0 points in the 1st and 2nd quarter. Let me check stats on this.
-----------------------

So it looks like, the only time was against the Vikings.

If Wilson gets 3 more game winning drives, he will be in the top 10 all time. He currently has 35 Game Winning Drives. He is tied w/ Moon and already has more then Rodgers, Montana, Kelly, & Tarkenton w/ less seasons. Also to note, Wilson had 20 games in which the Seahawks had the lead in the 4th quarter but lost. 13 of those were w/ the LOB. 15 if you add the playoffs/sb.

Oh how quickly some forget. Here's a field gulls article from 2018:

The Seahawks have now gone a league-worst 31 consecutive regular season games without an opening drive touchdown. This weekend against the Dallas Cowboys could make it two full seasons worth of games, and while I don’t know if this is an NFL record, it has to be pretty high up there.

I'm not sure how long that streak went, but almost two years without an opening drive TD? Wow.

A whopping 17 of their 31 opening possessions also saw the Seahawks pick up zero first-downs, including a couple of field goals off of turnovers in which they failed to even get ten yards. Factoring in all scores, Seattle has managed points on the first series 7 of its last 31 games, for a rate of only 22.6%, about 15% below league average. This is remarkably inept. For perspective, the 2013-2014 offenses managed 13 scores (9 FGs, 4 TDs) out of 32 opening drives, which is somewhere around 40.6%.

This essentially goes hand in hand with the Seahawks morphing into one of the poorest starting teams in the NFL. They’ve trailed at halftime in both games this season and nine times last year. Seattle hasn’t led at halftime in 14 out of their last 18 games, which puts them up there with such outstanding juggernauts like the Cleveland Browns and Houston Texans. The poor first-half starts have bled into the second-half, and they’ve not won a single game when trailing at the end of the 3rd quarter since the October 2016 comeback at home against the Falcons... a winless streak of 14, by the way.

Yes, Russ was remarkable for us in the 4th quarter. But the offense under him was often stupendously bad in the first half and especially the first quarter. Yes, Russ has that 'clutch' gene, but he also seems to need the additional pressure before it kicks in. There's no one I'd rather have in the 4th quarter when it's all or nothing. But my stress level would far rather have a lead already going into the 4th.

 

[keasley45]

I'm not disagreeing with anything there, my question I guess, if this is a bad play for Russ, why not call a play you know he excels at? I've been complaining since the moment the pick happened, they should have had Russ roll out of the pocket. He excels at throws on the run and if no one is open, throw the ball out of the end zone, stop the clock and set up the next 2 plays.

Maybe they had in practice. Its hard to say if it was a poor call based on what he cant do because practice situations dont always play out the same way on the field. Sometimes the play has to fail to know. And that play is so asolutey boiler plate, that youd think it would be part of every playbook in the league - it probably is.

NEVER
Just watch, same thing on here in 2027

its funny how when Russ is brought up in the context of what Geno cant do by those who supposedly want to 'let it go' that a response disputing the validity of the post based on a disagreement about what Russ was as a qb is the 'hater' side just wanting to relentlessly bash him.

The same folks who claim he was Elite and such a significant piece of our franchise over the last 10 years (the latter i agree with), somehow dont want to discuss the player nor circumstances around his 'greatness'. nless its to push down on praise for the guy who replaced him. Its a contradiction.

It cant be 'ok' to bring up 3 in praise and criticism of our current qb, but then push back on a discussion that will invariably shift to him when the basis for criticism is disputed (3) rather than the original point of a thread.

Its also normal to discuss past players.

 

[flv2]

If Geno can be a student and look at his 2022 Season film and grow then we should be in for a treat. First half Geno set the league on fire. Second half Geno was cooled off a bit. Why that was, is likely right there in the film, ready for him to learn from and grow.

From the outside looking in:
1) Penny was a genuine threat whereas Walker was a league average starting RB.
2) There wasn't a quality receiver behind Metcalf & Lockett.
3) Teams switched from attacking the stronger rookie tackles to the weaker veteran interior line.
I thought Smith played pretty well in the 2nd half of the season, but circumstances and roster talent were against him.

 

[keasley45]

Oh how quickly some forget. Here's a field gulls article from 2018:



I'm not sure how long that streak went, but almost two years without an opening drive TD? Wow.



Yes, Russ was remarkable for us in the 4th quarter. But the offense under him was often stupendously bad in the first half and especially the first quarter. Yes, Russ has that 'clutch' gene, but he also seems to need the additional pressure before it kicks in. There's no one I'd rather have in the 4th quarter when it's all or nothing. But my stress level would far rather have a lead already going into the 4th.

At least with Geno, you have consistent play based on the abilities of all 11 men on the field, rather than the elite provisational skill of one.

The great thing about the offense now is that failures are simpler to diagnose. When you know why you fail, you can address it and improve. When you dont score an opening drive TD in forever, cant sustain drives or convert reliably on 3rd downs, and its in large part due to only a small percentage of your plays actually being run as they were called, how can you ever make an adjustment thats anything other than just tossing the playbook out but for 10% of what the qb can do, and then just letting him make p the rest. Which, for years, when he did at the end of games, his style, supported by Lynch and the LOB, got the job done in spectatular fashion.

Whats great about the offense now is the staff will be able to make smarter sdjustmenets weel to week and half to half, based on plays that ACTUALLY WORK and those that dont. Theyll also be able to add to it and grow it for those same reasons. And all of that means maximizing the potential of the entire unit.

Which is why Geno doesnt have to be spectatcular. He just has to be the orchestrator. Effiecient, smrt with the ball, and attack when its called for.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Hey, if you wanna' hold on, go for it. Meh

 

[Ozzy]

Curiously Stafford led the league in turnover worthy throws in 2021 and won the Super Bowl. He also had considerable luck in not having a worse interception rate. Tagovailoa would have 'won' the turnover worthy award in 2022 hands down if it wasn't for his concussion issues.

Some of it I get. You want guys who are willing to take some chances. I got to watch every snap of Geno's and he does seem to struggle with his decision making and when the league had half a year to get some tape on him it seemed to get worse. You could also argue he has a full off season as the guy and will fix those issues. That is every bit as likely as him regressing. I love that they added JSN to the mix because I think that will help Geno a ton with another reliable outlet on crucial downs. The Geno is elite crowd is reasonable, I also think the "I have a little reservations about Geno" crowd isn't crazy for holding that position either. I think we're all rooting for him and hoping for the best.