Geno and the Super Bowl

[Ozzy]

Maybe they had in practice. Its hard to say if it was a poor call based on what he cant do because practice situations dont always play out the same way on the field. Sometimes the play has to fail to know. And that play is so asolutey boiler plate, that youd think it would be part of every playbook in the league - it probably is.

its funny how when Russ is brought up in the context of what Geno cant do by those who supposedly want to 'let it go' that a response disputing the validity of the post based on a disagreement about what Russ was as a qb is the 'hater' side just wanting to relentlessly bash him.

The same folks who claim he was Elite and such a significant piece of our franchise over the last 10 years (the latter i agree with), somehow dont want to discuss the player nor circumstances around his 'greatness'. nless its to push down on praise for the guy who replaced him. Its a contradiction.

It cant be 'ok' to bring up 3 in praise and criticism of our current qb, but then push back on a discussion that will invariably shift to him when the basis for criticism is disputed (3) rather than the original point of a thread.

Its also normal to discuss past players.

You're doing the same thing in reverse. You don't want to give Russ any credit for anything but you want Geno to get as much credit as possible under similar circumstances. They both deserve a ton of credit for their success, its really that simple. Russ was a top 3 guy for a period of time and even if you hate him now its ok to say he was a hell of a player for us as well. They can both be true. Geno was a top 5 guy the first half of the year and struggled a little bit the second half, those are facts. I'm hoping he is closer to first half Geno and if he is I will be as excited as anyone.

 

[Ozzy]

Geno certainly needs to iron out his game. Every QB does. Every QB has TO worthy throws in a season. Geno did start for the first season in a long time, so I'd expect some correctable issues to happen. I still don't get why people think Seattle's super bowl chances are limited due to Geno Smith. From what I saw, he's the last thing to worry about.

It's a completely fair point. It was really his first long run as a starter. I don't think he is the limiting factor and put him well down the list. I do think he needs to clean some stuff up and other units like the defense need to get drastically better but I think Geno winning a SB is well within the range of outcomes. If he is second half Geno though then I think its going to be tough for him to win one.

 

[flv2]

Some of it I get. You want guys who are willing to take some chances. I got to watch every snap of Geno's and he does seem to struggle with his decision making and when the league had half a year to get some tape on him it seemed to get worse. You could also argue he has a full off season as the guy and will fix those issues. That is every bit as likely as him regressing. I love that they added JSN to the mix because I think that will help Geno a ton with another reliable outlet on crucial downs. The Geno is elite crowd is reasonable, I also think the "I have a little reservations about Geno" crowd isn't crazy for holding that position either. I think we're all rooting for him and hoping for the best.

I wasn't criticising or praising Smith. I wasn't aware of Smith as a high turnover worthy QB as I was with the other QBs. The Seahawks needed help at WR, RB, and interior OL. Time will tell if they made good picks, but they addressed needs, even if those needs weren't the needs fans expected them to prioritise.

 

[keasley45]

I'm not disagreeing with anything there, my question I guess, if this is a bad play for Russ, why not call a play you know he excels at? I've been complaining since the moment the pick happened, they should have had Russ roll out of the pocket. He excels at throws on the run and if no one is open, throw the ball out of the end zone, stop the clock and set up the next 2 plays.

You're doing the same thing in reverse. You don't want to give Russ any credit for anything but you want Geno to get as much credit as possible under similar circumstances. They both deserve a ton of credit for their success, its really that simple. Russ was a top 3 guy for a period of time and even if you hate him now its ok to say he was a hell of a player for us as well. They can both be true. Geno was a top 5 guy the first half of the year and struggled a little bit the second half, those are facts. I'm hoping he is closer to first half Geno and if he is I will be as excited as anyone.

Co.pletely false. I've repeatedly called him the best qb we've had. Siad he was elite in the way he played the game and that it was remarkable that a guy with his height limitations at the position pushed for HOf recognition after 10 years. That's beyond dispute. He is all of that in my eyes.

But the borderline idol worship, tossing side sound football xs and os and just ignoring the fact that he struggled mightily to do basic things....and the team suffered from his deficiencies at times as much as it benefited from his skills... I'll push back on that all day, especially when it's used as a benchmark for greatness in measuring someone else. For whatever Russ is or isn't, he is NOT a good measuring stick for the position. He's too much a one off generational athlete. Too specific.

And I don't think Geno is perfect and called his turnovers costly. I've said quite a few times he needs to improve his pocket awareness and stop going back to the well on the same plays over and over again. He not Joe Montana. He's not even Justin Herbert. But he is good enough to get tye job done if he improves on what he needs to.

I've also said he doesn't HAVE to be a hero at the position, that we CAN win with an outstanding game manager, and that the benefit of the way he plays, is that our success is less reliant on him being perfect and more a function of the whole unit maximizing its potential.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Also, we CAN appreciate what Russ brought (until his last season here) AND appreciate what Geno brings to the table now.
It IS OK to like BOTH Quarterbacks. Appreciating one, and pulling for the other now. We can also be VERY glad the last guy is gone.
Not sure why it's so taboo or sacrilege to actually like BOTH guys. It feels like a "we have to hate Russ" and "Geno sucks" clubs.
It doesn't HAVE TO be like that. But oh well, to each his/her own.

Not that important. Go Hawks. And do you thing Geno, kick that ass.

 

[keasley45]

Also, we CAN appreciate what Russ brought (until his last season here) AND appreciate what Geno brings to the table now.
It IS OK to like BOTH Quarterbacks. Appreciating one, and pulling for the other now. We can also be VERY glad the last guy is gone.
Not sure why it's so taboo or sacrilege to actually like BOTH guys. It feels like a "we have to hate Russ" and "Geno sucks" clubs.
It doesn't HAVE TO be like that. But oh well, to each his/her own.

Not that important. Go Hawks. And do you thing Geno, kick that ass.

Yup

 

[FrodosFinger]

Nothing wrong with having the opinion that he's not a SB level QB. He's not an elite QB. And no, that does NOT mean I don't like the guy. He's damn good. But he's not top tier.
Super Bowl? No, but I can see them winning a playoff game, maybe even two. Yes, there have been average QB's who won a SB. But look at the rosters they had around them.
He has never even won a playoff game, and made several questionable decisions last year, especially later in the season.

His numbers last year say otherwise. He’s always been elite he just needed to mature mentally. He has and the results aren’t a surprise to me. Seattle can win a Super Bowl with Geno we just needed a few more pieces to reach that level and I think they are on their way. I say they hoist another Lombardi within the next few years with Geno Smith leading the way

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You're doing the same thing in reverse. You don't want to give Russ any credit for anything but you want Geno to get as much credit as possible under similar circumstances. They both deserve a ton of credit for their success, its really that simple. Russ was a top 3 guy for a period of time and even if you hate him now its ok to say he was a hell of a player for us as well. They can both be true. Geno was a top 5 guy the first half of the year and struggled a little bit the second half, those are facts. I'm hoping he is closer to first half Geno and if he is I will be as excited as anyone.

There are still WAY too many people on here clinging to their false narrative of Pete held Russ back, and now we'll never get back to a SB because of...............Pete.

So any and all of their opinions come from this false narrative, even now with Geno and the team as a whole. Defense regressed cause of Pete. Geno regressed because of Pete.

Instead of doing what you did here, looking at the sum/whole of the parts. Football is a complex game, when the team is going well its the sum of the parts playing and coaching well together. And when there's failure, it's usually the sum of all or most of those parts.

To cherry pick who's at fault, or who gets props for when things are going well is just being naive and intellectual dishonesty to the entire conversation.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

His numbers last year say otherwise. He’s always been elite he just needed to mature mentally. He has and the results aren’t a surprise to me. Seattle can win a Super Bowl with Geno we just needed a few more pieces to reach that level and I think they are on their way. I say they hoist another Lombardi within the next few years with Geno Smith leading the way

What? Geno has always been elite?

um.......................

 

[Hawk4life]

I think he means Seattle can win a Super Bowl with Geno we just needed a few more pieces to reach that level and I think they are on their way. I say they hoist another Lombardi within the next few years with Geno Smith in a limited role and a run heavy offense.

 

[CallMeADawg]

What? Geno has always been elite?

um.......................

Geno always had talent. At West Virginia he was pretty darn good. That never manifested in the NFL due to maturity issues.

I don't think I'd call him elite, I would say though that people expected the player we saw the first half of 2022 when Geno entered the league.

 

[Ozzy]

There are still WAY too many people on here clinging to their false narrative of Pete held Russ back, and now we'll never get back to a SB because of...............Pete.

So any and all of their opinions come from this false narrative, even now with Geno and the team as a whole. Defense regressed cause of Pete. Geno regressed because of Pete.

Instead of doing what you did here, looking at the sum/whole of the parts. Football is a complex game, when the team is going well its the sum of the parts playing and coaching well together. And when there's failure, it's usually the sum of all or most of those parts.

To cherry pick who's at fault, or who gets props for when things are going well is just being naive and intellectual dishonesty to the entire conversation.

I agree. It's hard to isolate any of it and its why I will always give Pete, Russ, Geno or whoever credit. There are situations where its obvious a link in the chain is the problem but that wasn't the case or is the case here.

Geno can win a SB. I don't think he can playing like he did late in the year but I also think he's better than he played late in the year. I'm not convinced he's first half Geno either but probably somewhere in between and that to me is probably good enough especially if all the other parts are working well. I'm rooting for the guy and he completely proved me wrong last year and I hope continues to do that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Geno can win a SB. I don't think he can playing like he did late in the year but I also think he's better than he played late in the year. I'm not convinced he's first half Geno either but probably somewhere in between and that to me is probably good enough especially if all the other parts are working well. I'm rooting for the guy and he completely proved me wrong last year and I hope continues to do that.

He's both, just as most top 10-15 QB's are both.

When Geno's given a strong run game to compliment him, and a defense that can play at LEAST above average? He can make all the throws and play really well.

When his defense craps the bed and puts him in a 14-0 hole by the 2nd quarter and his run game sputters? Yeah, he's going to struggle. Again, just as every QB not named Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen struggles.

We saw plenty last year to see Geno's plenty capable of winning a SB if we can get our nasty defense and run game rolling for an entire season, and not just 4-5 games.

 

[Lagartixa]

He is solid.

Problem is we are talking about the Superbowl. Geno is not that caliber.

Look at the list of Super Bowl winning QBs in the last 20 years. How many guys are Geno Smith caliber? Nick Foles? One lucky guy

I'd take 2022 Smith and what I expect from 2023 Smith over the following QBs from teams that won the last 20 Super Bowls:

• 2003 Brady. I will once again remind everybody that through Brady's 20s, he was considered a game manager. He didn't start having Peyton Manning-level seasons until he was over 30. I won't include 2004 Brady here, even though he still wasn't close to Peyton Manning's level yet in '04. He was good enough that I'd take 2004 Brady over 2022 Smith, and that's what we're discussing here. And I'd take Smith over 2003 Brady.
• 2007 Eli Manning. Yikes. That's an easy one. 2011 Eli Manning was actually pretty good, though.
• 2008 Roethlisberger. Not the 2005 model, but the 2008 model.
• 2012 Joe Flacco. Flacco was actually good for a season in 2014, but his team didn't make the Super Bowl that season.
• 2015 Peyton Manning. He was an all-time great QB, but not in his final season. Yikes.
• 2017 Nick Foles. That one's easy.

Two who were close but didn't make the list were 2013 Wilson, who had much-better seasons later, and 2021 Stafford. In the end, I'd take 2013 Wilson and 2021 Stafford over 2022 Smith.

So I ended up preferring 2022 Smith (and what I expect from 2023 Smith) over six of 20.

To me, the most interesting was the Super Bowl in early 2008 (after the 2007 season). 2007 Eli Manning, who was pretty bad, beat 2007 Tom Brady, who had a tremendous season. So in that specific case, I'd take 2022 Smith over the winning QB from the Super Bowl, but not the losing QB.

 

[FrodosFinger]

What? Geno has always been elite?

um.......................

Yep he’s always been elite physically. Mentally he’s just now coming around. He was immature early in his career and played on bad teams but the arm talent has always been elite. I don’t think anyone with high football IQ would even debate his arm talent

 

[Ozzy]

He's both, just as most top 10-15 QB's are both.

When Geno's given a strong run game to compliment him, and a defense that can play at LEAST above average? He can make all the throws and play really well.

When his defense craps the bed and puts him in a 14-0 hole by the 2nd quarter and his run game sputters? Yeah, he's going to struggle. Again, just as every QB not named Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen struggles.

We saw plenty last year to see Geno's plenty capable of winning a SB if we can get our nasty defense and run game rolling for an entire season, and not just 4-5 games.

I think he's one of about 10-12 guys who like you said are top 10-15 BUT I also think with a great cast he can probably play his way into the top 5-8 range and with a top 3 wr group, very good running game, an emerging TE group and an offensive line that will only get better it wouldn't shock me and I'm more critical of Geno than most lol.

 

[Ozzy]

I'd take 2022 Smith and what I expect from 2023 Smith over the following QBs from teams that won the last 20 Super Bowls:

• 2003 Brady. I will once again remind everybody that through Brady's 20s, he was considered a game manager. He didn't start having Peyton Manning-level seasons until he was over 30. I won't include 2004 Brady here, even though he still wasn't close to Peyton Manning's level yet in '04. He was good enough that I'd take 2004 Brady over 2022 Smith, and that's what we're discussing here. And I'd take Smith over 2003 Brady.
• 2007 Eli Manning. Yikes. That's an easy one. 2011 Eli Manning was actually pretty good, though.
• 2008 Roethlisberger. Not the 2005 model, but the 2008 model.
• 2012 Joe Flacco. Flacco was actually good for a season in 2014, but his team didn't make the Super Bowl that season.
• 2015 Peyton Manning. He was an all-time great QB, but not in his final season. Yikes.
• 2017 Nick Foles. That one's easy.

Two who were close but didn't make the list were 2013 Wilson, who had much-better seasons later, and 2021 Stafford. In the end, I'd take 2013 Wilson and 2021 Stafford over 2022 Smith.

So I ended up preferring 2022 Smith (and what I expect from 2023 Smith) over six of 20.

To me, the most interesting was the Super Bowl in early 2008 (after the 2007 season). 2007 Eli Manning, who was pretty bad, beat 2007 Tom Brady, who had a tremendous season. So in that specific case, I'd take 2022 Smith over the winning QB from the Super Bowl, but not the losing QB.

this is a fair list but I would argue Flacco and Foles were playing near league best during their SB runs but again pretty good list for sure.

 

[keasley45]

One problem Geno might have is a bit of a lazy overconfidence. When he's on and things are clicking, he can sling it with the best if them. But there were tines last year when he seemed to relax a bit and just assume what he saw in his reads was absolutely correct, and he tossed an INt or near one. I know some of that might be him just not being yet deep enough in experience running the plays and seeing how Ds respond to anticipate some of the things they're going to do to bait him. Just hope it's not an overconfidence that grows now that he's 'arrived'.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think he's one of about 10-12 guys who like you said are top 10-15 BUT I also think with a great cast he can probably play his way into the top 5-8 range and with a top 3 wr group, very good running game, an emerging TE group and an offensive line that will only get better it wouldn't shock me and I'm more critical of Geno than most lol.

That was his range last year. Top 5-6 in just about every statistical category for the first half when the run game was rolling and the defense could still stop the run.

Then the latter two fell apart, and he dropped into the middle tier of QB's because he was pressing and having to try to carry the offense.

Even under those conditions I thought Geno played pretty damn well. So yes, the answer is yes. Geno can be the QB of a SB winning team, IF he's paired with an elite run game and top 5 defense.

If not? Yeah, we're gonna see more 2nd half of 2022 Geno than 1st.

 

[rcaido]

Oh how quickly some forget. Here's a field gulls article from 2018:



I'm not sure how long that streak went, but almost two years without an opening drive TD? Wow.



Yes, Russ was remarkable for us in the 4th quarter. But the offense under him was often stupendously bad in the first half and especially the first quarter. Yes, Russ has that 'clutch' gene, but he also seems to need the additional pressure before it kicks in. There's no one I'd rather have in the 4th quarter when it's all or nothing. But my stress level would far rather have a lead already going into the 4th.

So first no scoring in the 1st half....Then now went to not scoring a touchdown in the 1st half...Now its not scoring on the opening drive.....sheesh
Wilson from 2015-2020, he had the most TDs in the NFL.

The 2018 season you quoted...

Wilson stats 2018
1st quarter - 63%, 7TDs, 1 Int 108.4 Rating
2nd quarter- 71%, 12TDs, 1 Int 124.1 Rting
3rd quarter- 61.5%, 6TDs, 2 Int 98.5 Rating
4th quarter - 64.3%, 10TDs, 3 Int, 108.4 Rating

Looking at the stats, he doesn't seem like a slow starter to me. 19Tds w/ 2Int with at 116 Rating. Seem a bit better in the 1st half then second. The team overall had the 6th(26.8PTS) highest scoring in the league. They also were last in Passing Attempts (427). Imagine being one of the top TD(35) passers but doing it w/ less then 200 attempts less. That's some efficiency. So does it really matter if they score on the opening drive?