Geno and the Super Bowl

[keasley45]

I still think people are overstating this because they hate Russ. Every single member of that team outside of Sherman has come out and spoken highly of Russ. They might not like how Pete treated the QB(but every QB is treated this way) but they all say the same thing. I keep thinking they are going to say something negative and they don't. WIthin the past year KJ, Lynch, Tyler, Kam etc have all said they love the guy. Sherman tried to bait Lynch into saying something bad and he said he loved him like a brother and that he was a warrior out there. Now Earl hasn't said anything but that probably is for a reason lol.

That play failed because Kearse didn't do his job and your 5th WR ran a poor route. If that same play is ran with Baldwin and literally anyone who gets in Browners way it's a touchdown or an incomplete pass.

watch highlights of Tom Brady and Edelman run that same play. It was a staple of their offense. You know where Tom never through the ball? high and inside. If you hit the WR before he clears the pick, its a gimme. If you hit the receiver 2 yards beyond the pick, you run the chance the defender jumps the play and gets to the ball... which is excatly what happened. Theres zero chance for that play to get picked if its thrown as the wr is crossing the pick. Its simple physics.

You know what else is physics? a low release point from the qbs hand will always prevent the ball from hitting a low target when its a shallow cross just beyond the LOS, unless you have a clear lane to throw through. Low release point relatevely close to the LOS, plus tall lineman standing up right in front of you equals a ball that will be high.

And you know what supports the fact that it was on the QB? The number of times the Seahawks ran that play again after the SB, even though its so effective, rules were created against it.. but its STILL used today by qbs to pickup cheap yards.

But not in Seattle, even though Russ had wrs who could run the route better at his disposal. That play went the way of countless others that just weren't run when 3 was here.

 

[CallMeADawg]

This issue will remain unresolved as long as Geno is the QB. As fans we can accept having a QB that can't dominate through the air but we need a defense and run game to warrant it.

I just don't get this take at all. Geno can't dominate through the air? Geno drops dimes frequently. Probably throws the best spiral in the league.

 

[hoxrox]

The other guy had a top 10 offense 8 out 10 seasons. Probably 9 if he didn't get injured. While doing it with less attempts. They are obviously scoring more points then most teams. Isn't that what matters, instead of trying to cherry pick a stat? He has 35 GWD 27 4th quarter comeback. Im pretty sure you're wrong w/ the 0 points in the 1st and 2nd quarter. Let me check stats on this.

2012
vs Packers 0, 7, 0, 7
vs Patriots 10, 0, 0, 14
vs Bears 0, 10, 0, 7, 6

2013
vs Panther 0, 3, 3, 6
vs Texans 3, 0, 3, 14, 3
vs Bucs 0, 7, 7, 10, 3

2014
vs Panthers 0, 3, 3, 7

2015
vs Cowboys 3, 7,0, 3
vs Stealers 0, 14, 6, 19

2016
vs Dolphins 3, 3, 0, 6
vs Falcons 7, 10, 0, 9
vs Patirots 6, 13, 3, 9


2017
vs 49ers 6, 0, 0, 6
vs Texans 14, 7, 6, 14

2018
vs Packers 3, 14, 0 10
vs Panthers 0, 10, 7, 13

2019
vs Bengals, 0, 14, 0, 7
vs Rams, 7, 7, 7, 9
vs Browns 6, 12, 7, 7
vs Bucs 7, 6, 8, 13, 6

2020
vs Cowboys 9, 14, 7, 8
vs Vikings 0, 0, 21, 6
vs 49ers 3, 3, 0, 20

So it looks like, the only time was against the Vikings.

If Wilson gets 3 more game winning drives, he will be in the top 10 all time. He currently has 35 Game Winning Drives. He is tied w/ Moon and already has more then Rodgers, Montana, Kelly, & Tarkenton w/ less seasons. Also to note, Wilson had 20 games in which the Seahawks had the lead in the 4th quarter but lost. 13 of those were w/ the LOB. 15 if you add the playoffs/sb.

Correction: no TDs in the first OR second quarters. From your examples, there were a lot of them.

 

[CallMeADawg]

If Geno can be a student and look at his 2022 Season film and grow then we should be in for a treat. First half Geno set the league on fire. Second half Geno was cooled off a bit. Why that was, is likely right there in the film, ready for him to learn from and grow.

The core competency bits, mechanics, etc are all there for Geno. His footwork is solid. His throwing motion is good. His passes are picture perfect spirals. He has excellent arm strength, etc. Just needs to put in some film work and iron out the kinks.

Personally, I expect to see an improvement over 2022. Geno isn't likely to disappoint either.

 

[rcaido]

Correction: no TDs in the first OR second quarters. From your examples, there were a lot of them.

Cherry picker by heart. Guy has a top 10 offense in 8 out 10 seasons. While still getting game winning drives. Tied for most wins. Also second in TD's in the first 10years(292) behind Manning (306) but did it with less then 700 attempts.

 

[keasley45]

Cherry picker by heart. Guy has a top 10 offense in 8 out 10 seasons. While still getting game winning drives. Tied for most wins. Also second in TD's in the first 10years(292) behind Manning (306) but did it with less then 700 attempts.

Same guy is set free to go to a team whos a qb away from winning a championship and the offense he leads is virtually dead last in the league and he looks like a deer in headlights trying to diagnose plays. One coach stated that Russ wasnt even doing basic High School QB stuff. Cherry picking is also when it becomes plainly obvious that when a guy doesnt have a supporting cast at his dsiposal, hes not the same player, yet continuing to harp on what he did when he had help. And help that was at the time, deemed to not only be sub-par, but actually contibuted to holding him back from reaching his full potential.

And he was the only 'elite qb' in the game to ever be average at best converting 3rd downs with his arm. a trend he continued in Denver.

Geno - what he will do remains to be seen. But what he already has done only looks ho-hum if you're clinging to the expectation that QB should be played with unnecessray +10 difficulty level the last guy created.

A HOF, SB winning qb who took a look at Russ's game said flatly (paraphrasing)- playing qb in the NFL is hard. Dont make it harder than it needs to be.

 

[hoxrox]

Cherry picker by heart. Guy has a top 10 offense in 8 out 10 seasons. While still getting game winning drives. Tied for most wins. Also second in TD's in the first 10years(292) behind Manning (306) but did it with less then 700 attempts.

I'm not really debating his entire career with Seattle. He did some amazing things, and some not so amazing things.

But he also started off slow in many games. Many three and outs, or drives ending in FGs. Then he decides to use his legs more in 4th quarter to create some of these comeback drives when teams are playing prevent.

This thread is about Geno and whether or not people think Seattle can win a SB with him.

If we can do it with Russ, we can do it with Geno. Build a similar level of talent around him and it is certainly possible.

 

[BASF]

Me3 Marks 1, Mods 0.

It is a shame that so many people here can't let him go when he turned his back on you.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Glad he's gone, and he's been gone over a year. Yet here we are.....same shit, over a year later.
I feel bad for the horse..........

 

[CallMeADawg]

Glad he's gone, and he's been gone over a year. Yet here we are.....same shit, over a year later.
I feel bad for the horse..........

Geno played better too.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolutely. And hopefully Geno plays even better this year. He has the weapons.

 

[Hawk4life]

I just don't get this take at all. Geno can't dominate through the air? Geno drops dimes frequently. Probably throws the best spiral in the league.

Most TD's in a game, 3. Yep he's a real badass.

A QB that dominates in the air has at least 4 TD's per game and fair number with 5.

And don't say that was because we were running the ball, because we didn't.

Or maybe it was our receiving group that is now the 2nd best in the NFL? Yep, that must be it.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Most TD's in a game, 3. Yep he's a real badass.

And don't say that was because we were running the ball, because we didn't.

Why are these the metrics up for discussion? What do they mean in terms of Geno playing QB? Why did you assume I'd mention running the ball at all?

The takes here sometimes are completely baffling.

"A QB that dominates in the air has at least 4 TD's per game and fair number with 5"

Wait, so dominate QBs in the league are throwing upwards of 80 TD a year? Since when?

 

[Hawk4life]

Why are these the metrics up for discussion? What do they mean in terms of Geno playing QB? Why did you assume I'd mention running the ball at all?

The takes here sometimes are completely baffling.

We have been discussing it in another thread - Pete Carroll is not run heavy.

I apologize for anticipating that you would respond with an excuse, it just seems to be the standard way people answer these days.

 

[CallMeADawg]

We have been discussing it in another thread - Pete Carroll is not run heavy.

I apologize for anticipating that you would respond with an excuse, it just seems to be the standard answer.

That's fine, I'm just trying to understand the measurement. At 4 TDs a game, in a 17 game season the QB would throw 68 TDs. Mahomes had 41, which averages to 2.4 TD per game.

Geno was #4 if you rank by TDs. He was 5 behind Burrows and Allen, and 11 behind Mahomes. That's good company IMO.

 

[Lagartixa]

A QB that dominates in the air has at least 4 TD's per game and fair number with 5.

By that definition, no QB, not even 2013 Peyton Manning, has ever "dominate[d] in the air."

17-game seasons are new. Let's just take 16-game seasons.
Even so, a QB that dominates in the air, by the definition in the quoted message, would have...

4 × 16 = 64 TDs at least (at least four per game),
and if we take "[a] fair number" to be, say, four, then we're talking about 68 TDs in a season to be considered "dominat[ing] in the air" by @Hawk4life's criterion.

The all-time record for TD passes in a season is Peyton Manning's 55 in 2013. That's a good 13 TD passes short of @Hawk4life's standard for "dominat[ing] in the air."

I wonder if any NFL player will ever "dominate in the air" by that standard. Keep in mind you've gotta add at least four more TDs to the cutoff line now that regular seasons have 17 games, and it'll get another four or more TDs harder when the owners push the regular-season schedule to 18 games. Even keeping the "fair number" of five-TD games at four in an 18-game season, soon a QB will have to throw at least 76 TDs in a season (that's more than 36% higher than the all-time record) for @Hawk4life to consider him to have dominated in the air.

I'm goin' out on a limb here, but could it possibly be that the standard has been set impossibly high in a desperate attempt to say Smith has somehow failed the Seahawks?

 

[Ostatehawk]

Two rookies on the OL didn't help Geno - and by the second half of the season they were probably about worn out. Stepping up to NFL competition level and playing more games than they were used to. I think that aspect of our team will improve this year and Geno's second half performance with it.

 

[BASF]

Geno was #4 if you rank by TDs. He was 5 behind Burrows and Allen, and 11 behind Mahomes. That's good company IMO.

Remember that DK dropped at least four TDs and Lockett dropped one. That would have put him tied for second.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

 

[Hawk4life]

I'm not saying they have to have 4+ TD's every game. I saying a QB should have at least 1 game with more than 4 TD's even to be considered dominate in the air.

An air dominance metric that is interesting is to take total games with over 4 TD's and divided by the total games played. It works best when you compare the entire careers.

Manning 35/266=0.132
Brees 37/287=0.129
Brady 39/381=0.102
Farve 23/326=0.071

For active players you do have to take into consideration where they are in their career and smaller sample sizes.

Current players
Mahomes 16/80=0.200
Rodgers 33/230=0.143
Wilson 17/157=0.108

Geno 0