The Athletic: Geno knocking on the door of stardom

[Glasgow Seahawk]

He works his butt off, clearly loves the seahawks and his team mates love him. He is what we need just now (making the payoffs and mentoring young guys)...but he is not elite and he won't win us a championship when our window opens.

Admittedly very few qb's are elite.

 

[keasley45]

Doesn't Geno lead the league in comeback wins since he has been starting?

yup

 

[keasley45]

https://nflrankings.theringer.com/qb-rankings

FWIW - just an opinon piece...

 

[Ozzy]

https://nflrankings.theringer.com/qb-rankings

FWIW - just an opinon piece...

my word Ruiz’ list is terrible in my opinion.

You talked earlier about NFELO. I do look at it but I also look at passer rating, QBR, PFF, PFN, Ben Baldwins metrics, EPA stuff etc. I know the new stat nerd guys don’t like passer rating but I’m not convinced we’ve improved on the old standard. Go into any length of time and passer rating will align pretty closely with how nfl execs, scouts etc how quarterbacks.

I’d argue that most of these listed above put Geno in the same range I do and a couple are even lower with Geno in the #22 range. I don’t think he’s that low but some do.

Either way he didn’t turn the ball over this week which Macdonald said he needed to do a better job of and he responded. Hopefully him and the offense can take advantage of this line that is getting much better

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He stays turnover free, and this team has a legit shot to do some damage in the playoffs, imo.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I like Geno. I think he’s playing well enough to get us where we want to go. I’m very interested in seeing how his play progresses now that we actually have a line and running game brewing. He looked great Sunday.

 

[Ozzy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/s/4WsA5z7dbK

22nd QBR and 17th in PAA which is points above average.

He’s also 21st in ANY/A and 20th in EPA. 18th in passer rating.

But I don’t understand advance metrics as I’ve been told so I’ll let the real experts wade through these.

That’s the problem with advanced metrics is they’re all over the place. Guys like Keasely, Darkvictory, Knownone and Maelsteom have him top 10 and that’s fine. You can even find something to support it. Most other people probably have him in the 10-20 range or next tier down and you can find metrics to support that too.

Point is that’s why this debate is so polarizing. You find a metric that supports your priors and then you can’t understand how someone can disagree and you assume they’re not being objective(this point has been made multiple times).

 

[DTiempo81]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/s/4WsA5z7dbK

22nd QBR and 17th in PAA which is points above average.

He’s also 21st in ANY/A and 20th in EPA. 18th in passer rating.

But I don’t understand advance metrics as I’ve been told so I’ll let the real experts wade through these.

That’s the problem with advanced metrics is they’re all over the place. Guys like Keasely, Darkvictory, Knownone and Maelsteom have him top 10 and that’s fine. You can even find something to support it. Most other people probably have him in the 10-20 range or next tier down and you can find metrics to support that too.

Point is that’s why this debate is so polarizing. You find a metric that supports your priors and then you can’t understand how someone can disagree and you assume they’re not being objective(this point has been made multiple times).

All that really matters at the end of the day is wins.

 

[SonicHawk]

I just like Geno more than the gamble of the unknown.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I just like Geno more than the gamble of the unknown.

this is where I'm at. Right now? Geno is a good value. Unless we make the playoffs and win at least one game I don't think he gets a new contract here.

 

[toffee]

https://nflrankings.theringer.com/qb-rankings

FWIW - just an opinon piece...

This rank had Geno at #8 just behind Murray. But #8? All the GeNOs on dot net will tell you that their eyeball test tells them otherwise. These are the GeNO that can post within minutes after a game that our QB took an extra nano second in decision making etc.

 

[Natethegreat]

Yeah, the problem lies in him wanting a massive contract. If that's what he demands Seahawks should move on. He is a capable NFL QB but not if we are sinking a lot of our cap space into him.
He is the type of QB that needs an elite supporting cast to contend for titles.

 

[Appyhawk]

Yeah, the problem lies in him wanting a massive contract. If that's what he demands Seahawks should move on. He is a capable NFL QB but not if we are sinking a lot of our cap space into him.
He is the type of QB that needs an elite supporting cast to contend for titles.

I'm a solid believer in TEAM over individual, so I think needing a top supporting cast is far more important than having the top QB. I think our record over the past decade supports that notion. Geno will never be able to carry the load any more than any other QB. The better we are as a team the better Geno will be. The rub is that in order to assemble that strong supporting cast we cannot afford to weight our cap down with a massive QB contract. That is exactly what makes having a guy like Howell an attractive situation.

 

[Ozzy]

I just like Geno more than the gamble of the unknown.

Yeah that’s a valid point and I think the Seahawks do too.

 

[Ozzy]

This rank had Geno at #8 just behind Murray. But #8? All the GeNOs on dot net will tell you that their eyeball test tells them otherwise. These are the GeNO that can post within minutes after a game that our QB took an extra nano second in decision making etc.

Or they will tell you that virtually every other similar site had Geno much lower like I just shared. Again man people can disagree with you and it doesn’t by default mean you’re the lone objective one and they’re all crazy.

i think Geno at 8 is wild personally especially when you go down the list and see how many guys are playing this year and EPA, ANY/A, passer rating, QBR etc all agree with that assessment. So it’s not entirely unreasonable to have Geno in the 10-20 range.

 

[Sperrydogg]

The headline gets me every time, “the athletic geno”….

Go eat salad

 

[rigelian]

I'm not saying you're wrong but when you look at the overall numbers for this stat almost everyone is pretty close in this regard if I'm not mistaken. That's not to take anything away from Geno because he has made plays on game winning drives but I think because NFL games are so close they usually end up with whoever scores last. Wilson is really high in this stat too yet this board thinks he sucks. This board also thinks Cousins is wildly overrated yet he leads the league.

Like Soulfish said, He just isn't very good in the red zone. I think its because he's too tentative and with the smaller field and doesn't pull the trigger? I remember a game last year, and he even admitted it in the post game, but he had two touchdowns in the red zone and just didn't see it fast enough or throw the football.

I used to use this stat in support of Wilson but sort of stopped because I'm not sure its as valuable as it sounds? I could be wrong though.

I think that people overlook the fact that we haven't had a strong ground game since Geno took the reins. The effect? Teams can focus on stopping the pass more than the run in the red zone.

 

[toffee]

Or they will tell you that virtually every other similar site had Geno much lower like I just shared. Again man people can disagree with you and it doesn’t by default mean you’re the lone objective one and they’re all crazy.

i think Geno at 8 is wild personally especially when you go down the list and see how many guys are playing this year and EPA, ANY/A, passer rating, QBR etc all agree with that assessment. So it’s not entirely unreasonable to have Geno in the 10-20 range.

There you go

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I just like Geno more than the gamble of the unknown.

Very good point.

 

[Ozzy]

There you go

Nah you were even wrong, you said Geno haters use the eyeball test. I just showed you there are other sites like PFF that use their metrics and have Geno much lower. You can laugh but what you said was dead wrong so you do you I guess.

The best part is if anyone even slightly disagrees with PFF’s 8th ranking(and almost everyone does) then by Toffees standards they’re “haters” and “GeNO’s” seems reasonable and well thought out.

Toffee if you have him 8th who are the guys you have higher? This will tell me who you have below him and I’m curious.