Peteball at it's finest!

[TCHawks]

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

McVay ball? You do see that the Rams are not part of the top 5 teams in the Tweet you listed there, right?

That aside, your entire argument rests upon a conspiracy held up by a one game sample size of heavy pre-snap motion, and falls especially flat when you're attempting to directly correlate pre-snap motion with offensive success as if only archaic offenses do not utilize motion - Tampa Bay being an example of a team that has used it fairly sparingly prior to this year, and early in the season even.

Notice how they switched it up, though. Evolution. Interesting. Almost as if teams and philosophies aren't static.

I can't imagine equating pre-snap motion with complexity, either. The McVay attack you're referring to was renowned for being SIMPLE yet effective. What a false equivalency.

You argue for complexity, yet also argue for fairly direct adherence to a specific set of offensive concepts. You fail to see the hypocrisy in this.

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

PS: Frank Clark has 4.5 sacks this year. You'd be absolutely $h!t your pants all over the board if Seattle paid him that contract for that type of production. They did exactly what anyone else would consider ideal - get his best years, ship him out for a haul. If you're honestly still painting that as a loss for Seattle, you should probably hang out with Niner fans.

Yeah dude you lost this argument and resorted to insults because of it. Just chalk it up as a loss and move on. You were wrong. They did seem to change a little the past couple of games.

 

[getnasty]

Looks like people are still hung up on the pass/run ratio although Fade just gave stats of how the pre-snap motion was used in the first game and then suddenly abandoned afterwards up until the last few games, but throw that out the window because Russ can be used as the scapegoat for everything wrong on the offensive side of the ball. I just find it hysterical how after the first game, Pete came out in a presser stating that he spoke to Waldron after the game about how he wanted things done and the offense mysteriously fell back into the same old predictable offense we see every year in stints under Pete Carroll (I need to find that quote but thats a lot of searching to do). Its crazy how people dance around the obvious, but they do.

Russ gives Seattle the best chance of succeeding, but I almost want him to move on so that people will finally get that slap in the face they deserve as the Seahawks hover below .500 like Carroll has always done without #3.

Show us the game by game breakdown of pre snap motion. I have yet to see it.

 

[keasley45]

Looks like people are still hung up on the pass/run ratio although Fade just gave stats of how the pre-snap motion was used in the first game and then suddenly abandoned afterwards up until the last few games, but throw that out the window because Russ can be used as the scapegoat for everything wrong on the offensive side of the ball. I just find it hysterical how after the first game, Pete came out in a presser stating that he spoke to Waldron after the game about how he wanted things done and the offense mysteriously fell back into the same old predictable offense we see every year in stints under Pete Carroll (I need to find that quote but thats a lot of searching to do). Its crazy how people dance around the obvious, but they do.

Russ gives Seattle the best chance of succeeding, but I almost want him to move on so that people will finally get that slap in the face they deserve as the Seahawks hover below .500 like Carroll has always done without #3.

Nobody is hung up. You can look back at the hawks since the beginning of the Russ / Pete era and its been statistical fact that when the run / pass ration is in line, we find our most consistent success. We do not have the tools to be a team that wins anything beyond regular season games if we are passing team. Because those tools require timing and throws that we dont hit. the run opens up our passing attack more than anything, motions or not. And when both pass and run work, we win. Run -> Pass -> Win. Motion helps, but its not THE reason we improved.

When DK was aksed about what made the difference for the offence and the passing game, he immediately mentioned the running game. Not mixing things up. Not motions. We committed to the run and it paid off in a big way with Penny who is running better than he ever has.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah. Find that quote where he said to not do any of that motions. Maybe you have one that also talks about how Pete doesn't like throwing to the middle, or disagrees with Waldron about quick strike passing.

In the meantime, again, there's this one that quotes Pete after the Jags game, the first where Geno had his feet under him and Russ was on the bench.

This is in the article Fade quoted where Heaps talks about needing to run more motions and sweeps. In the article, he pretty plainly references the fact that against the Jags, we did it more. AGAINST THE JAGS. WITH GENO.

The Seahawks employed a fast passing attack that allowed them to really move the ball downfield efficiently.

“We were really quick with the football yesterday,” Carroll said. “I was really fired up about the rhythm that we were able to throw with. (Offensive coordinator) Shane Waldron really put the plan together to give Geno a shot to really function quickly. You saw all of the inside passes that we hit Tyler on and DK caught a couple. The rhythm of that is what made that work.”

“We have to continue to strive to stay in that pocket because that gives us a chance to get the ball out and the pass protection guys don’t have to work as long and we can move the football that way effectively where our guys can catch it,” he said.

Pete in that one presser pretty much shot down all the claims about him

1.not wanting to throw over the middle
2.not wanting to run the offense with tempo
3.being ok with Russ's scrambling play - he prefers the ball come out on time, in rhythm.

Oh, and in this game he miraculously is OK re-integrating sweeps and motions...

Cripes, you want to hinge everything on a game where they played the Jaguars? A team that played particularly bad that day even for them? A day any team could have done anything they want to against them? The only game that Geno Smith won during his playing time? Sure the offense was changed somewhat for him. It had to be. The guy cant make big plays so what choice do you have? He averages 7 yards a throw. They strived to stay in the pocket because Smith is worthless any otherwise. Is a Geno Smith type QB what your looking for? If so, enjoy those 3 to 4 wins a season. The Jaguars game is such a small sample size. What i'm talking about is pretty much the cumulative of the entire season.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'll find the quotes but that'll be later tonight as its going to be a lot of digging.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Show us the game by game breakdown of pre snap motion. I have yet to see it.

Or you could have just watched the games to see that it wasnt there.

 

[keasley45]

Yeah. Find that quote where he said to not do any of that motions. Maybe you have one that also talks about how Pete doesn't like throwing to the middle, or disagrees with Waldron about quick strike passing.

In the meantime, again, there's this one that quotes Pete after the Jags game, the first where Geno had his feet under him and Russ was on the bench.

This is in the article Fade quoted where Heaps talks about needing to run more motions and sweeps. In the article, he pretty plainly references the fact that against the Jags, we did it more. AGAINST THE JAGS. WITH GENO.

The Seahawks employed a fast passing attack that allowed them to really move the ball downfield efficiently.

“We were really quick with the football yesterday,” Carroll said. “I was really fired up about the rhythm that we were able to throw with. (Offensive coordinator) Shane Waldron really put the plan together to give Geno a shot to really function quickly. You saw all of the inside passes that we hit Tyler on and DK caught a couple. The rhythm of that is what made that work.”

“We have to continue to strive to stay in that pocket because that gives us a chance to get the ball out and the pass protection guys don’t have to work as long and we can move the football that way effectively where our guys can catch it,” he said.

Pete in that one presser pretty much shot down all the claims about him

1.not wanting to throw over the middle
2.not wanting to run the offense with tempo
3.being ok with Russ's scrambling play - he prefers the ball come out on time, in rhythm.

Oh, and in this game he miraculously is OK re-integrating sweeps and motions...

Cripes, you want to hinge everything on a game where they played the Jaguars? A team that played particularly bad that day even for them? A day any team could have done anything they want to against them? The only game that Geno Smith won during his playing time? Sure the offense was changed somewhat for him. It had to be. The guy cant make big plays so what choice do you have? He averages 7 yards a throw. They strived to stay in the pocket because Smith is worthless any otherwise. Is a Geno Smith type QB what your looking for? If so, enjoy those 3 to 4 wins a season. The Jaguars game is such a small sample size. What i'm talking about is pretty much the cumulative of the entire season.

Who said anything about 'hinging everything' on that game or Geno.

And nobody said to anoint Geno anything. The point was with Geno under center, the more dynamic, quick passing, middle attacking game shows up, along with motions and sweeps and is gushed over by Pete, the guy whos supposed to hate all of those things sooo much he secretly deletes them from the playbook. And then it disappears again when the guy who has full control of the offense at the line comes back in.

Its just more evidence to the contary

I posted it to show that the notion that half the stuff Pete gets blamed for is just hateful thinking. The entire argument against him and his offensive approach... and now his apparent tanking of the more dynamic aspects of Waldrons playbook, is based on HIM being the one who put the kabash on things after game 1.

If he did that, then why would he bring it back with Geno? and go on and on about how great it was.

If he hates throwing over the middle, then why did he praise it in one of the games we did it best?

If he was basically dictating the offensive strategy after week 1, then why was he repeatedly upset about the strategy being deployed. he called week 1's offensive 'beautiful' and pretty much every offensive strategy between week 1 and the 49ers games Dec 5th that Russ played in - the stretch before and after the injury where we were last in 3rd downs, passing conversions, sustained drives, etc., some version of confusing or essentially not good enough.

Yet when we start running again post Dec 5, and then sprinkle in more of what Waldron can do LATER ON, Pete is ecstatic.

The entire argument is baseless.

 

[keasley45]

Show us the game by game breakdown of pre snap motion. I have yet to see it.

Or you could have just watched the games to see that it wasnt there.

yup. wasn't there in some of the games we won either.

Its a PART of a successful attack. Its not the CAUSE of the success. The success starts with balance, good blocking, adhering to the run and passing off of it.

 

[keasley45]

Yeah. Find that quote where he said to not do any of that motions. Maybe you have one that also talks about how Pete doesn't like throwing to the middle, or disagrees with Waldron about quick strike passing.

In the meantime, again, there's this one that quotes Pete after the Jags game, the first where Geno had his feet under him and Russ was on the bench.

This is in the article Fade quoted where Heaps talks about needing to run more motions and sweeps. In the article, he pretty plainly references the fact that against the Jags, we did it more. AGAINST THE JAGS. WITH GENO.

The Seahawks employed a fast passing attack that allowed them to really move the ball downfield efficiently.

“We were really quick with the football yesterday,” Carroll said. “I was really fired up about the rhythm that we were able to throw with. (Offensive coordinator) Shane Waldron really put the plan together to give Geno a shot to really function quickly. You saw all of the inside passes that we hit Tyler on and DK caught a couple. The rhythm of that is what made that work.”

“We have to continue to strive to stay in that pocket because that gives us a chance to get the ball out and the pass protection guys don’t have to work as long and we can move the football that way effectively where our guys can catch it,” he said.

Pete in that one presser pretty much shot down all the claims about him

1.not wanting to throw over the middle
2.not wanting to run the offense with tempo
3.being ok with Russ's scrambling play - he prefers the ball come out on time, in rhythm.

Oh, and in this game he miraculously is OK re-integrating sweeps and motions...

Cripes, you want to hinge everything on a game where they played the Jaguars? A team that played particularly bad that day even for them? A day any team could have done anything they want to against them? The only game that Geno Smith won during his playing time? Sure the offense was changed somewhat for him. It had to be. The guy cant make big plays so what choice do you have? He averages 7 yards a throw. They strived to stay in the pocket because Smith is worthless any otherwise. Is a Geno Smith type QB what your looking for? If so, enjoy those 3 to 4 wins a season. The Jaguars game is such a small sample size. What i'm talking about is pretty much the cumulative of the entire season.

Who said anything about 'hinging everything' on that game or Geno.

And nobody said to anoint Geno anything. The point was with Geno under center, the more dynamic, quick passing, middle attacking game shows up, along with motions and sweeps and is gushed over by Pete, the guy whos supposed to hate all of those things sooo much he secretly deletes them from the playbook. And then it disappears again when the guy who has full control of the offense at the line comes back in.

Its just more evidence to the contary

I posted it to show that the notion that half the stuff Pete gets blamed for is just hateful thinking. The entire argument against him and his offensive approach... and now his apparent tanking of the more dynamic aspects of Waldrons playbook, is based on HIM being the one who put the kabash on things after game 1.

If he did that, then why would he bring it back with Geno? and go on and on about how great it was.

If he hates throwing over the middle, then why did he praise it in one of the games we did it best?

If he was basically dictating the offensive strategy after week 1, then why was he repeatedly upset about the strategy being deployed. he called week 1's offensive 'beautiful' and pretty much every offensive strategy between week 1 and the 49ers games Dec 5th that Russ played in - the stretch before and after the injury where we were last in 3rd downs, passing conversions, sustained drives, etc., some version of confusing or essentially not good enough.

Yet when we start running again post Dec 5, and then sprinkle in more of what Waldron can do LATER ON, Pete is ecstatic.

The entire argument is baseless.

So if a worthless QB can set the franchise record for consecutive completed passes, get the ball out everywhere on the field, and avoid the sacks the Jags unleashed on the Bills the following week (a playoff team in the Bills) and beat them... all in only his 3rd start in several years, in an offense he gets few reps in... then why cant Russ?

Pete was deliberate in praising the things that happened in that game that dont typically happen when Russ is under center. Fast passing, getting the ball out. helping the blocking. AND we ran more sweeps in motions.

Pete loved it all. and pointed it out. because he obviously sees it as being how he wants the offense run.

Russ came back, and it all went away.

Jody complained, and we go on a tear that has us looking more like Peteball than any other point in the season.

 

[massari]

Geno Smith was sacked 13 times in three starts

These threads are so unreadable with the same recycled talking points over and over. Making matters worse, these long walls of text keep getting quoted a million times over. Scroll bomb

 

[keasley45]

Geno Smith was sacked 13 times in three starts


These threads are so unreadable with the same recycled talking points over and over. Making matters worse, these long posts keep getting quoted a million times over. Scroll bomb

You're right. its unbearable to have reasonable conversations about football and X's and Os be blown up constantly by baseless claims of conspiracy theories, opinion pieces being spun as fact, etc. trying to paint an image of a coach who's trying to handcuff his QB or his team, and how if only he'd leave things be, how things would be better.


no one said he wasnt sacked. he got the ball out faster, more efficiently and across the field in that game. Logically, the game he would have had the most time to work with Waldron

Again, the point of the post is Pete's response. Not lobbying for Geno to start, or anything else.

But it was Geno and the Jags - Geno is horrible and the Jags arent even NFL quality, so the entire game should just be forgotten, and everything gleaned from it, trashed.

It is unbearable.

 

[John63]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

This^^^^

 

[Maelstrom787]

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

This^^^^

John63 has quoted this post 3 separate times, with "This^^^" being the message each time.

I rest my case.

 

[Maelstrom787]

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

McVay ball? You do see that the Rams are not part of the top 5 teams in the Tweet you listed there, right?

That aside, your entire argument rests upon a conspiracy held up by a one game sample size of heavy pre-snap motion, and falls especially flat when you're attempting to directly correlate pre-snap motion with offensive success as if only archaic offenses do not utilize motion - Tampa Bay being an example of a team that has used it fairly sparingly prior to this year, and early in the season even.

Notice how they switched it up, though. Evolution. Interesting. Almost as if teams and philosophies aren't static.

I can't imagine equating pre-snap motion with complexity, either. The McVay attack you're referring to was renowned for being SIMPLE yet effective. What a false equivalency.

You argue for complexity, yet also argue for fairly direct adherence to a specific set of offensive concepts. You fail to see the hypocrisy in this.

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

PS: Frank Clark has 4.5 sacks this year. You'd be absolutely $h!t your pants all over the board if Seattle paid him that contract for that type of production. They did exactly what anyone else would consider ideal - get his best years, ship him out for a haul. If you're honestly still painting that as a loss for Seattle, you should probably hang out with Niner fans.

Yeah dude you lost this argument and resorted to insults because of it. Just chalk it up as a loss and move on. You were wrong. They did seem to change a little the past couple of games.

Most of my argument wasn't so much as addressed by the ex-ruminator, who hyperfixated on pre-snap motion as if it is a key point of offensive production.

It's not. It's a stylistic point that he's fixated on because he wants a direct copy of the 2018 McVay playbook, and dismisses anything else as "meddling."

 

[John63]

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

This^^^^

John63 has quoted this post 3 separate times, with "This^^^" being the message each time.

I rest my case.

what case your wrong period I keep reposting it because this makes it open and shut. We have not been using the Waldron offense all season only 2.5 games and those games were awesome. sorry but the facts that are shown are irrefutable. So I will continue to repost it till you and your brethren get it. watch caefully

 

[John63]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

THIS^^^

 

[Maelstrom787]

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

THIS^^^

4 times.

Totally not spam, or anything.

Wanna try using your own words, champ?

 

[John63]

To make this even easier on you, in the 10 qtrs of the Wladorn offense we have avg 10.8 points per qtr. in the 10 qtrs of the Waldron offense we avg 54 rushing yards a qtr, we have.3 sacks a qtrs, we complete 67% of our passes per qtr. it's simple when we use the Waldron offense which facts have shown we have not been using all season, we are near unstoppable. When we use the PC offense were are very stoppable.

 

[Maelstrom787]

To make this even easier on you, in the 10 qtrs of the Wladorn offense we have avg 10.8 points per qtr. in the 10 qtrs of the Waldron offense we avg 54 rushing yards a qtr, we have.3 sacks a qtrs, we complete 67% of our passes per qtr. it's simple when we use the Waldron offense which facts have shown we have not been using all season, we are near unstoppable. When we use the PC offense were are very stoppable.

The Waldron offense is the offense run during the entirety of 2021, and any statement otherwise is fanciful bullshit based on nothing other than a one-game sample of heavy pre-snap motion.

That simple.

If you want to prove otherwise, post your own analysis pointing out where they flip the switch.

 

[John63]

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

THIS^^^

4 times.

Totally not spam, or anything.

Wanna try using your own words, champ?

1 I did but you need to read to know that. 2. He said it so well he deserves to keep his credit and since I am quoting him there are no issues. I mean I am sure you have never used someone else's words in your life, work, or school right? of course you have the difference is I am making sure you all know what he says is the truth and who said it.