Peteball at it's finest!

[Maelstrom787]

Nobody that has basic football 101 needs to be told the offense looked different than the other 14 weeks that looked like the same offense of 9 years of Pete.

Nobody that follows the Seahawks even casually should have to have someone tell them that as well.

It's not really due to a scheme change so much as simple execution, though.

The same staples continue to be in the offense. The blocking scheme is the same they've been running all season. They're just executing better.

It's a gross oversimplification and honestly pretty insane to think that some weeks Pete is calling the shots, and others he's letting Waldron. It's just plain ludicrous. Nothing whatsoever supports that notion.

This^^^

and i love that people actaully beleive that Pete let Waldron do his thing week one and then shut it down after that glowing success. Only to let him bring it back in week 18.

I also don't think people underestimate the value of a stud running back and the confidence he can bring to an offensive line. Sorry but Alex Collins doesn't scare any defense.

After week 1 Pete came out publicly and said Waldron understands now how he wants things done and the offense falls right back to the same predictable stuff we see every year. Coincidence? People seriously think that the team took 14 games to grasp a new offense when they seemingly had it figured out in week 1? Sorry, but that is the definition of delusional.

You wouldn't be calling it predictable if it worked. You only harp on this shit when it fails.

The offense today was the same exact degree of predictable, and it worked. E x e c u t i o n.

Execution is the difference. Last couple of weeks aren't some large schematic abberration and it's absurd to say otherwise. It's make-believe, my guy.

 

[BChawkfan]

Nobody that has basic football 101 needs to be told the offense looked different than the other 14 weeks that looked like the same offense of 9 years of Pete.

Nobody that follows the Seahawks even casually should have to have someone tell them that as well.

It's not really due to a scheme change so much as simple execution, though.

The same staples continue to be in the offense. The blocking scheme is the same they've been running all season. They're just executing better.

It's a gross oversimplification and honestly pretty insane to think that some weeks Pete is calling the shots, and others he's letting Waldron. It's just plain ludicrous. Nothing whatsoever supports that notion.

This^^^

and i love that people actaully beleive that Pete let Waldron do his thing week one and then shut it down after that glowing success. Only to let him bring it back in week 18.

I also don't think people underestimate the value of a stud running back and the confidence he can bring to an offensive line. Sorry but Alex Collins doesn't scare any defense.

I dont know,that Irish jig toe tap thing he was doind for his TD cellie scared the shit out of me

 

[pittpnthrs]

It's not really due to a scheme change so much as simple execution, though.

The same staples continue to be in the offense. The blocking scheme is the same they've been running all season. They're just executing better.

It's a gross oversimplification and honestly pretty insane to think that some weeks Pete is calling the shots, and others he's letting Waldron. It's just plain ludicrous. Nothing whatsoever supports that notion.

This^^^

and i love that people actaully beleive that Pete let Waldron do his thing week one and then shut it down after that glowing success. Only to let him bring it back in week 18.

I also don't think people underestimate the value of a stud running back and the confidence he can bring to an offensive line. Sorry but Alex Collins doesn't scare any defense.

After week 1 Pete came out publicly and said Waldron understands now how he wants things done and the offense falls right back to the same predictable stuff we see every year. Coincidence? People seriously think that the team took 14 games to grasp a new offense when they seemingly had it figured out in week 1? Sorry, but that is the definition of delusional.

You wouldn't be calling it predictable if it worked. You only harp on this $h!t when it fails.

The offense today was the same exact degree of predictable, and it worked. E x e c u t i o n.

Execution is the difference. Last couple of weeks aren't some large schematic abberration and it's absurd to say otherwise. It's make-believe, my guy.

But its always predictable. Even NFL people say that. Hell, even Carroll mentions trying to impose his will instead of masking his schemes. Its an issue thats been going on for years.

The offense yesterday was a carry over from the week before which was a carry over from week 1. Its the 14 straight games in between that should open your eyes.

If it truly was execution as your so convinced it is, taking 14 games to finally get it would equate to a horribly, horribly coached team wouldnt it? Whats going to be the excuse next season when the offense falls into the same predictable pattern for a large part of the year? Is that going to be execution again? You would think a team would build on things the following season, but not Seattle. It always takes at least a half a season before the defense gets sorted out, or the offensive line, the running game, etc,,,. Its the same thing every single season. Thats not make believe, thats just flat out reality.

 

[getnasty]

This^^^

and i love that people actaully beleive that Pete let Waldron do his thing week one and then shut it down after that glowing success. Only to let him bring it back in week 18.

I also don't think people underestimate the value of a stud running back and the confidence he can bring to an offensive line. Sorry but Alex Collins doesn't scare any defense.

After week 1 Pete came out publicly and said Waldron understands now how he wants things done and the offense falls right back to the same predictable stuff we see every year. Coincidence? People seriously think that the team took 14 games to grasp a new offense when they seemingly had it figured out in week 1? Sorry, but that is the definition of delusional.

You wouldn't be calling it predictable if it worked. You only harp on this $h!t when it fails.

The offense today was the same exact degree of predictable, and it worked. E x e c u t i o n.

Execution is the difference. Last couple of weeks aren't some large schematic abberration and it's absurd to say otherwise. It's make-believe, my guy.

But its always predictable. Even NFL people say that. Hell, even Carroll mentions trying to impose his will instead of masking his schemes. Its an issue thats been going on for years.

The offense yesterday was a carry over from the week before which was a carry over from week 1. Its the 14 straight games in between that should open your eyes.

If it truly was execution as your so convinced it is, taking 14 games to finally get it would equate to a horribly, horribly coached team wouldnt it? Whats going to be the excuse next season when the offense falls into the same predictable pattern for a large part of the year? Is that going to be execution again? You would think a team would build on things the following season, but not Seattle. It always takes at least a half a season before the defense gets sorted out, or the offensive line, the running game, etc,,,. Its the same thing every single season. Thats not make believe, thats just flat out reality.

Not all 14 games were bad so that's overstated. Your missing one of the best QB's in the league for 3.5 games, he appears to be not healthy in 3 others. You don't have a viable running back for 13 of 18 games this year. There's a ton of excuses but they're also legitimate. It's execution but it's also the fact that Alex Collins doesn't break that long touchdown run yesterday if it's blocked the same way.

 

[scutterhawk]

Nobody that has basic football 101 needs to be told the offense looked different than the other 14 weeks that looked like the same offense of 9 years of Pete.

Nobody that follows the Seahawks even casually should have to have someone tell them that as well.

It's not really due to a scheme change so much as simple execution, though.

The same staples continue to be in the offense. The blocking scheme is the same they've been running all season. They're just executing better.

It's a gross oversimplification and honestly pretty insane to think that some weeks Pete is calling the shots, and others he's letting Waldron. It's just plain ludicrous. Nothing whatsoever supports that notion.

Pete got Run Game he wanted = take some heat off Quarterback = opening up Passing Game.
This was >>>>Well Executed<<<< Pete/Waldren football.

 

[Maelstrom787]

After week 1 Pete came out publicly and said Waldron understands now how he wants things done and the offense falls right back to the same predictable stuff we see every year. Coincidence? People seriously think that the team took 14 games to grasp a new offense when they seemingly had it figured out in week 1? Sorry, but that is the definition of delusional.

You wouldn't be calling it predictable if it worked. You only harp on this $h!t when it fails.

The offense today was the same exact degree of predictable, and it worked. E x e c u t i o n.

Execution is the difference. Last couple of weeks aren't some large schematic abberration and it's absurd to say otherwise. It's make-believe, my guy.

But its always predictable. Even NFL people say that. Hell, even Carroll mentions trying to impose his will instead of masking his schemes. Its an issue thats been going on for years.

The offense yesterday was a carry over from the week before which was a carry over from week 1. Its the 14 straight games in between that should open your eyes.

If it truly was execution as your so convinced it is, taking 14 games to finally get it would equate to a horribly, horribly coached team wouldnt it? Whats going to be the excuse next season when the offense falls into the same predictable pattern for a large part of the year? Is that going to be execution again? You would think a team would build on things the following season, but not Seattle. It always takes at least a half a season before the defense gets sorted out, or the offensive line, the running game, etc,,,. Its the same thing every single season. Thats not make believe, thats just flat out reality.

Not all 14 games were bad so that's overstated. Your missing one of the best QB's in the league for 3.5 games, he appears to be not healthy in 3 others. You don't have a viable running back for 13 of 18 games this year. There's a ton of excuses but they're also legitimate. It's execution but it's also the fact that Alex Collins doesn't break that long touchdown run yesterday if it's blocked the same way.

It's absurd, isn't it?

You can barely talk football with people who only see football in black and white like this.

Waldron or Pete! New or old! Meddle or no meddle! Rabble rabble!

 

[scutterhawk]

Not all 14 games were bad so that's overstated. Your missing one of the best QB's in the league for 3.5 games, he appears to be not healthy in 3 others. You don't have a viable running back for 13 of 18 games this year. There's a ton of excuses but they're also legitimate. It's execution but it's also the fact that Alex Collins doesn't break that long touchdown run yesterday if it's blocked the same way.

It's absurd, isn't it?

You can barely talk football with people who only see football in black and white like this.

Waldron or Pete! New or old! Meddle or no meddle! Rabble rabble!

^^ THIS ^^
You're never going to convince some folks here that Pete Carroll is REALLY a good HC, while others see Russell Wilson as 'The Problem'.
SOME even want wholesale changes, to BLOW UP the whole damned kaboodle, because they THINK they know how to better run the whole organization, that they PERCEIVE as broken beyond repair, LOLOLOL, >NOT!
I'm looking FORWORD to this off season, because I believe we are much closer to going back on top of the NFC WEST NEXT season.
I'm hoping Wilson stays, gets 100% healthy & starts mastering the Carrol / Waldren playbook.
I want to see MORE of what a healthy PENNY can do behind an UPGRADED O-Line.
Would like to see another RB brought in to keep the Run Game FRESH. :irishdrinkers:

 

[pittpnthrs]

It's absurd, isn't it?

You can barely talk football with people who only see football in black and white like this.

Waldron or Pete! New or old! Meddle or no meddle! Rabble rabble!

Its also hard talking to people that refuse to accept the black and white.

Keep everybody. Hope they can limp into the post season. Win a Wild Card game at the most. Listen to fans harp on how close they are. Rinse and repeat. Rabble rabble.

 

[ZagHawk]

Despite a strip fumble td and a near pick 6 Russ managed game
pretty well otherwise with Penny rocking and the D fighting hard.
We could and should have been doing this more.
Peteball wins!I'm still stoked off that game! :irishdrinkers:

Game was nice. That being said, we've seen Peteball work before. My issue is what happens when the Seahawk team runs into a team that has a good run defense and slowly takes more and more TOP through the game and a larger and large lead? The games we've seen time and time before (usually against the Rams or Packers), and the post game comments are always the same "well we just couldn't establish the run".

I enjoy a win as much as anyone else, but I am skeptical because I've seen this before. I've seen Pete ball be successful and the same story is given (see we just gotta run!) and then I've seen it fail and once again the same story is given. What I'd like to see is maybe more adaptation when Pete ball is NOT going to work or just stylistically not a good match up against certain teams/coaches/QB combos.

Anyway, Pete was not fired this morning, so Jody has spoken (without speaking). I am curious to see come April/May if RW is still on the team, at this point since Pete is staying.

Side note this part of your post amuses me because it would be a death warrant for just about any team/game.

Despite a strip fumble td and a near pick 6 Russ managed game
pretty well

 

[keasley45]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

 

[Fade]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

 

[olyfan63]

It's absurd, isn't it?

You can barely talk football with people who only see football in black and white like this.

Waldron or Pete! New or old! Meddle or no meddle! Rabble rabble!

Its also hard talking to people that refuse to accept the black and white.

Keep everybody. Hope they can limp into the post season. Win a Wild Card game at the most. Listen to fans harp on how close they are. Rinse and repeat. Rabble rabble.

"Pete Ball" has been expanded to include Waldron-ball. So many people do the black-and-white thing on Pete Carroll, and ignore the changes and adaptations he's made over his career. The Pete we have is a way better version than the Pete Carroll that got fired by the NE Patriots a couple decades ago.

This version of Pete/Waldron Ball just had a really nice win, where the team overcame some early-game setbacks and dominated a highly motivated, would-be division champ on the road. Hawks win knocked the Cards out of the NFC West championship, and relegated them to a wildcard and road playoff games. (Of course, the Cards inexplicably have a much better record on the road anyway.) I'd say the future looks pretty good, that the Hawks ARE closer to a return to the Owl than the doom-and-gloom prophets say.

Hawks didn't feel like they were an also-ran going into AZ "hoping" to "get lucky" and sneak out a win with some trick plays and special teams luck, they went in "expecting" to kick AZ's ass and get a win. And they did. I expected them to bring it, with the only question being how Russell would fare against AZ's cover 2. Penny's running success made that largely a moot issue. Russell made some really nice 3rd down conversions throughout the game. Not sure if Russell has "solved" his cover-2 read woes, but he and Waldron clearly made some adjustments that showed up in this game.

I've felt like Russell has had a "buyin" problem much of the year, to being asked by Waldron to rewire his football brain to "take the layups". Maybe the Chicago loss, 100% on Russell playing Hero-ball when all that was needed was basic situational football, got Russell's attention. No question that was discussed at length in the film room, Russell passes up an easy 5-yard completion to DJ Dallas, plays Hero-ball, and takes an unnecessary sack. To my untrained eye, it looks like Russell has bought in and he and Waldron are now on the same page. A beautiful, winning sight to see.

 

[keasley45]

Despite a strip fumble td and a near pick 6 Russ managed game
pretty well otherwise with Penny rocking and the D fighting hard.
We could and should have been doing this more.
Peteball wins!I'm still stoked off that game! :irishdrinkers:

Game was nice. That being said, we've seen Peteball work before. My issue is what happens when the Seahawk team runs into a team that has a good run defense and slowly takes more and more TOP through the game and a larger and large lead? The games we've seen time and time before (usually against the Rams or Packers), and the post game comments are always the same "well we just couldn't establish the run".

I enjoy a win as much as anyone else, but I am skeptical because I've seen this before. I've seen Pete ball be successful and the same story is given (see we just gotta run!) and then I've seen it fail and once again the same story is given. What I'd like to see is maybe more adaptation when Pete ball is NOT going to work or just stylistically not a good match up against certain teams/coaches/QB combos.

Anyway, Pete was not fired this morning, so Jody has spoken (without speaking). I am curious to see come April/May if RW is still on the team, at this point since Pete is staying.

Side note this part of your post amuses me because it would be a death warrant for just about any team/game.

Despite a strip fumble td and a near pick 6 Russ managed game
pretty well

Peteball didnt 'NOT' work in the playoffs last year. We out-passed ourselves to a lost identity and a loss. The year before, we didnt have a healthy back on the roster but for a street-dressed Lynch and Homer. Last year in the playoffs, the run was working.

This year, the Rams weakness was their run defense, by a wide margin. They werent good. And what did we do when we played them? Passed a good bit more than we ran. Why? Not Pete.

But that's when Russ needs to elevate his game and learn to move the chains. because when we cant run (whether because of injury or otherwise) AND Russ continues to play long ball, we lose. period. that's not the fault of Pete Ball, that's the result of the enigma of Russ when the run cant help him beat 2 high. THATS what needs to be fixed.

 

[keasley45]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

The other fact. We just ran more than we passed. And just like EVERY OTHER TIME WE DID THAT, MOTION OR NOT, LITERALLY EVERY TIME, WE WON.

So continue to ignore the fact that whether we jet sweeped or not, whether we motioned or not, whether we danced a friggin jig or not or Russ got laid before the game or not, when we ran, WE WON.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

 

[LTH]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

The other fact. We just ran more than we passed. And just like EVERY OTHER TIME WE DID THAT, MOTION OR NOT, LITERALLY EVERY TIME, WE WON.

So continue to ignore the fact that whether we jet sweeped or not, whether we motioned or not, whether we danced a friggin jig or not or Russ got laid before the game or not, when we ran, WE WON.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

There is no question when the Hawk's run game is popping, they win... anybody that doesn't see this is Hiding...


But thats not just the Hawks it's wide spread in the NFL


LTH

 

[Fade]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

Teams generally run when they are winning. Teams generally pass when they are losing, but It's not run vs. pass argument, it's predictability vs. deception.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

Not all runs and passes are the same. Not all opponents are the same. You have to be a step ahead. Continuously running inside zone into loaded boxes isn't going to win a championship. And constantly throwing deep against teams in a 2 High shell isn't going to win a championship either.

Boiling it down to that is missing the point entirely.

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

 

[keasley45]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

Teams generally run when they are winning. Teams generally pass when they are losing, but It's not run vs. pass argument, it's predictability vs. deception.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

Not all runs and passes are the same. Not all opponents are the same. You have to be a step ahead. Continuously running inside zone into loaded boxes isn't going to win a championship. And constantly throwing deep against teams in a 2 High shell isn't going to win a championship either.

Boiling it down to that is missing the point entirely.

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

Excpet this year that was fault. We were winning and chose to pass. We played the GB Packers to a draw into the 4th qtr and ran 11 times the whole game. We ran effectively against literally every team.

We were never down to a degree we had to throw ourselves back into the game. Often we were winning and lost leads because we continued to throw, and as has been proven, are league worst passing on 3rd down and were league worst in plays per possession.

Yet, when we ran, we held leads, our TOP was better, our defense was better, and we won.

So yes, bad teams have to throw a lot. WE CHOSE to throw a lot. It was nothing other than a choice.

Wk 2, we lost because we 'kept our foot on the gas', passed to futility and handed the Titans the ball enought imes to tie and win.

The next weekl, we basicall played the Vikings to a draw and then stopped running in the 2nd half depsite the running game working at a 5 ypc clip.

The niners game - run was working, pass wasnt.

The Rams game run was working.

The Pittsburgh game - the run ws the only thing that gave us a chance.

Saints - we ran too much but still had an average that was 3.8 i think - so not failing.

Jax - ran

GB - ran 11 times and it was all that was woking - and we didnt fall behind until the last 12 minutes of the game - and didnt get to throw much after that because we coouldnt convert a first down.

Literally every game BUT the WFT game was effective on the ground and the run game was there. And we left it.

But keep on ignoring the truth AND HOW the games we lost this year played out.

League worst passing for 3rd downs.

League worst in avg time of offensive possession.

League low in avg plays per possession.

But top 3 in YPC at 5.0

But inexplicably in the lower half of the league in attempts.

And for all the excuses that we could have won had Russ not been injured. Explain to me how it is that if his finger injury lingered, that somebody (Not Pete) chose to, rather than run the ball to mitigate against his accuracy being off or however he was impacted by as a result of the injury, we CHOSE TO RELY ON HIS GRIP ON THE BALL AND MAYBE HIS REACTION TO PROTECT HIS HAND.

That makes less than zero ssnse.

Nor does fabricating some nonsensical narrative that Pete would have advocated going into every week saying secretly to Shane -- hey, its obvious Russ is still a little off, but lets not run too much this game, K?

Coming off of his injury, we passed 72% of the time, 61% of the time, and 73% of the time. We didnt trail significantly in any of those games.

Week one we run mostly and win. Week 2 the run game was killing it too, but we then choose instead to throw 65% of the time and let the Titans back in.

 

[hoxrox]

Deception, creativity and a dynamic game plan based on the opponent is good, but it still all comes down to execution.

We've seen games where pre-snap motion was used but they still lost. We saw games where jets and sweeps resulted in negative yards.

What's been encouraging in the past couple of games is not only the dominate running game, but also Russ making better decisions, behind a line that has been blocking better. We're actually seeing slants to DK over the middle. We're seeing check downs to the TEs and RBs. We're seeing him step up into clean pockets, and not bailing on them.

Better blocking, a more balanced attack, a dominate run game, and better decisions by the QB is what it comes down to.

 

[keasley45]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

Teams generally run when they are winning. Teams generally pass when they are losing, but It's not run vs. pass argument, it's predictability vs. deception.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

Not all runs and passes are the same. Not all opponents are the same. You have to be a step ahead. Continuously running inside zone into loaded boxes isn't going to win a championship. And constantly throwing deep against teams in a 2 High shell isn't going to win a championship either.

Boiling it down to that is missing the point entirely.

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

We were top 10 all year in YPC, regardless of deception.

And in the games we went away from the run this year, we ran effectively and then stopped. it wasnt that the runs werent working because they werent tricky enough. We . Just . Stopped.

Look at the games we lost and what our avg was. Tricks, no tricks, 4.x ypc is enough to warrant continuing running. and we put up those numbers DESPITE not ever letting our run game really get going and pounding teams into submission into the 4th, which we all know is when running teams really get on track.

 

[keasley45]

Deception, creativity and a dynamic game plan based on the opponent is good, but it still all comes down to execution.

We've seen games where pre-snap motion was used but they still lost. We saw games where jets and sweeps resulted in negative yards.

What's been encouraging in the past couple of games is not only the dominate running game, but also Russ making better decisions, behind a line that has been blocking better. We're actually seeing slants to DK over the middle. We're seeing check downs to the TEs and RBs. We're seeing him step up into clean pockets, and not bailing on them.

Better blocking, a more balanced attack, a dominate run game, and better decisions by the QB is what it comes down to.

Exactly. But as someone above mentioned, it cant be that when the run game is slowed, that we don't have a gear to switch to at all other than the long ball. Since he's been here, the run is what has allowed Russ to flourish, just as DK pointed out last week - we run, defenses cant take away the longer shots, and that opens up passes over the top.

But our pass game needs to be a bit more adaptable.

Hopefully Shane can get Russ to elevate his game and break that cycle enough with his arm that we dont just get stymied altogether.

If we build on the effectiveness of the run game we've had over the last 2 years now and just lean on it more, i think we can give ourselves a chance. Because THATS when the deception really begins to work for both the run and pass game.