Peteball at it's finest!

[Jville]

Peteball at it's finest!

:177692: ............... This team is in good hands ....... more fun times ahead!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1480578178619826185[/tweet]

^^^^
This

 

[John63]

Peteball at it's finest!

:177692: ............... This team is in good hands ....... more fun times ahead!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1480578178619826185[/tweet]

^^^^
This

More proof not Pete ball. Maybe peterusswaldron ball

 

[chris98251]

Peteball at it's finest!

:177692: ............... This team is in good hands ....... more fun times ahead!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1480578178619826185[/tweet]

^^^^
This

Wilson looks fat, no wonder he's slow and lost a step................



























This should age well.....

 

[kf3339]

Peteball at it's finest!

:177692: ............... This team is in good hands ....... more fun times ahead!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1480578178619826185[/tweet]

^^^^
This

Wilson looks fat, no wonder he's slow and lost a step................





I though the same when I saw that picture. Is it just a bad picture angle, or does someone need to go on a diet?





















This should age well.....

 

[Jville]

Peteball at it's finest!

:177692: ............... This team is in good hands ....... more fun times ahead!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1480578178619826185[/tweet]

^^^^
This

Wilson looks fat, no wonder he's slow and lost a step................



This should age well.....

I though the same when I saw that picture. Is it just a bad picture angle, or does someone need to go on a diet?

Will somebody stop by shortly to blame that skinny Pete Carroll of making Russell Wilson look fat? There so many possibilities. :lol:

 

[keasley45]

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff
contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

THIS^^^^^

I dont think anyone is arguing that letting an OC do what he was brought here to do, which is make the offense more diverse, is a good thing.

The thing that makes ZERO sense and is frustrating is the constant inference that us struggling and not running a Shane styled offense is somehow the result of Pete 'sticking his nose into things', because it:

1. ignores the fact that the way we lost this year is completely antithetcal to what our HC believes. We passed ourselves into a losses this year and Pete objected to the strategy many times.

2. and conveniently sidesteps the fact that our worst games occured when Russ came back from his injury (not the point here)

AND

Despite logic saying that if your QB has an injury that prevents him from throwing the ball well... that
maybe you should run more. And yet we passed at a stupid rate. 73%, 61% and 72%.

Fade - John63 - who do you think put together that gameplan? Honest question. Was it Pete who
favors the run over the pass? Or the gameplan against the Titans that lost the W in the second half
when we decided to just keep on throwing? And threw it completely away when we ran three backwards
pass plays that netted nothing?

Or the gameplan against the Vikings when the same thing happened? you get the point.

Pete prefers the run game, yet We didn't run, despite being effective . Waldron brings complexity - yet
we forgot all of the complexity at around the same time we went pass happy and didnt bring it back until
late this year, conspicuously just after reports that Jody wasn't happy and hasn't
been - that was Dec 4th. On December 5th we had one of our best games.

After that point, we didn't pass more, we began to shift back more to running the ball. prior to that, it
was the Russel Wilson show. And along with the run becoming our identity, came complexity. But even
before that, when we ran more than passed, we won.

So we ran, and won, without the Shifts and Sweeps. They are obviously a nice added element. But that stuff going away coincided with the offense not becoming more Pete-like , but becoming more pass heavy, the opposite of what Pete prefers. And it came back in early December when we also returned to the run game.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

Come on man. He just proved what we've all been saying and your still fighting it. The facts are that the offense looked great in week 1 and then reverted back to the same stagnant, predictable offense we see every year for long stretches. They incorporate the pre-snap motion to the same extent in the last few weeks and it looks great again. Anybody can see this. I dont know why you struggle so.

 

[keasley45]

And in the article Fade quoted where Heaps talks about needing to run more motions and sweeps. In that article, he pretty plainly references the fact that against the Jags, we did it more. AGAINST THE JAGS... with Geno running the offense, we run more of what Waldron wants. And for more context, this is what Pete had to say after the Jags game, that Waldron put together for Geno:

“It always is, that’s no rocket science there,” Carroll said when asked about planning to get those two receivers the ball. “Those guys are terrific football players and yesterday we were really pecking away at them really nice with the dropback game and Tyler was the recipient. He had some big plays, crucial catches.”

The Seahawks employed a fast passing attack that allowed them to really move the ball downfield efficiently.

“We were really quick with the football yesterday,” Carroll said. “I was really fired up about the rhythm that we were able to throw with. (Offensive coordinator) Shane Waldron really put the plan together to give Geno a shot to really function quickly. You saw all of the inside passes that we hit Tyler on and DK caught a couple. The rhythm of that is what made that work.”

“We have to continue to strive to stay in that pocket because that gives us a chance to get the ball out and the pass protection guys don’t have to work as long and we can move the football that way effectively where our guys can catch it,” he said.

Pete in that one presser pretty much shot down all the claims about him

1.not wanting to throw over the middle
2.not wanting to run the offense with tempo
3.being ok with Russ's scrambling play - he prefers the ball come out on time, in rhythm.

Oh, and in this game he miraculously is OK re-integrating sweeps and motions... lol

So we run all of the presnap motion stuff in the preseason, then stop after week 1 and Russ goes on his pass happy attack, to Pete's dismay.

Then Russ goes down, geno comes in, gets a few games under his belt and by the 3rd game Waldron is able to script a plan that suits him and obviously makes Pete happy... and that plan included, per Jake heaps, more motions, and per Pete, more quick passes to the middle.

Then Russ comes back, and with a mangled finger and instead of running more (which would be logical) we pass more again, teh sweeps and motions disappear again, and lose.

Until we play the Niner's, curiously after Jody's comments, and beat them, and go on a stretch where we return to balance, running more, and Shane doing his thing.

But somehow its only happening now because Pete isn't futzing things up...

 

[keasley45]

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

Come on man. He just proved what we've all been saying and your still fighting it. The facts are that the offense looked great in week 1 and then reverted back to the same stagnant, predictable offense we see every year for long stretches. They incorporate the pre-snap motion to the same extent in the last few weeks and it looks great again. Anybody can see this. I dont know why you struggle so.

What did he prove again? Just ignore the fact that we won when we ran more, regardless of whether there was presnap motion or not.

The presnap motion returned when the run returned, and left when we went pass happy.

Again. there are games that we won without the pre-snap motion but ran more.

There are no games that we won with pre-snap motion where we passed more. And during those games when Russ was throwing his arm (and finger) off, there were no sweeps and motions. And during those games, Pete was frustrated at the offense... visibly so.

Yet it was pretty much stated at the beginning of the year that #3 has full control of the offense in terms of planning with Shane and at the line. If he wanted more, wouldn't he just have called it?

So there's obviously more correlation between no motion and sweeps when Russ was throwing like crazy, taking chances playing the same old way he always has (and pretty adamantly defending it), then there is with any style of offense Pete prefers.

There's more correlation between Pete-ball and Waldron-ball than between what Waldron can obviously bring to the table and what Russ defended doing all year.

Russ never said a peep about the playbook needing more options when he was asked about what could help improve the offense. He only ever defended how he played.

 

[Jville]

I dont think anyone is arguing that letting an OC do what he was brought here to do, which is make the offense more diverse, is a good thing.

The thing that makes ZERO sense and is frustrating is the constant inference that us struggling and not running a Shane styled offense is somehow the result of Pete 'sticking his nose into things', because it:

1. ignores the fact that the way we lost this year is completely antithetcal to what our HC believes. We passed ourselves into a losses this year and Pete objected to the strategy many times.

2. and conveniently sidesteps the fact that our worst games occured when Russ came back from his injury (not the point here)

AND

Despite logic saying that if your QB has an injury that prevents him from throwing the ball well... that
maybe you should run more. And yet we passed at a stupid rate. 73%, 61% and 72%.

Fade - John63 - who do you think put together that gameplan? Honest question. Was it Pete who
favors the run over the pass? Or the gameplan against the Titans that lost the W in the second half
when we decided to just keep on throwing? And threw it completely away when we ran three backwards
pass plays that netted nothing?

Or the gameplan against the Vikings when the same thing happened? you get the point.

Pete prefers the run game, yet We didn't run, despite being effective . Waldron brings complexity - yet
we forgot all of the complexity at around the same time we went pass happy and didnt bring it back until
late this year, conspicuously just after reports that Jody wasn't happy and hasn't
been - that was Dec 4th. On December 5th we had one of our best games.

After that point, we didn't pass more, we began to shift back more to running the ball. prior to that, it
was the Russel Wilson show. And along with the run becoming our identity, came complexity. But even
before that, when we ran more than passed, we won.

So we ran, and won, without the Shifts and Sweeps. They are obviously a nice added element. But that stuff going away coincided with the offense not becoming more Pete-like , but becoming more pass heavy, the opposite of what Pete prefers. And it came back in early December when we also returned to the run game.

I had not made the connection between the events of Dec 4th and Dec 5th. Thanks for bringing that to my/our attention.

I had buried the memory of the "three backwards pass plays that netted nothing". That was ugly. But, for a complete accounting, I guess it's better to resurrect the memory of that sequence.

 

[keasley45]

And just in case everyone forgot who has final say on what plays are run:

'The real emphasis Shane Waldron has put in his new Seahawks offense hinges on Wilson expanding his freedom to any play in a larger playbook, at any time. ...Waldron, his new offensive coordinator, gave him the play from the sideline. Wilson considered it, and the defense he saw. Then the quarterback used what he described as Waldron’s emphasis on giving him freedom to change any play to any other in the playbook more often this season. The idea is to not stubbornly pound a square peg into the defense’s round holes. That’s what Seattle did the latter half of last season.

Opponents in late 2020 dropped a second safety deep into the center of the field to take away DK Metcalf and Wilson’s long passes that shredded the NFL last September and October. The Seahawks kept trying those long throws, anyway. They had no counter to their later foes’ counter. That’s why Wilson and the previously soaring offense splatted in December. That’s why the Seahawks lost at home to the Los Angeles Rams in the first round of the playoffs to ruin a 12-4 season and NFC West championship. And that’s why head man Pete Carroll fired play caller Brian Schottenheimer and hired Waldron, the coordinator of the Rams’ quicker passing game, to be Seattle’s first-time offensive coordinator.'

Read more at: https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... rylink=cpy

Read more at: https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... rylink=cpy

 

[hoxrox]

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

Come on man. He just proved what we've all been saying and your still fighting it. The facts are that the offense looked great in week 1 and then reverted back to the same stagnant, predictable offense we see every year for long stretches. They incorporate the pre-snap motion to the same extent in the last few weeks and it looks great again. Anybody can see this. I dont know why you struggle so.

I read the post. He proved nothing.

It's funny that some think pre-snap motion was the magical solution that fixed this offense's problems. Go back and rewatch the offense last game vs the Cards. They really didn't use it that much.

The players simply executed better, period.

 

[Ambrose83]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

To be fair he does basically live on here , between him and Chris and largest it's a toss up.

 

[justafan]

Teams can run man blocking, inside zone or outside zone it still comes down to blocking and having talent. All systems work with execution. If people want to say the illusion of being complex helps and man in motion helps sure I will buy it. Its been around a loooong time. It can help the QB read D but using man in motion stat as a reason we won is grasping for something. We beat the Cards because we beat the crap out of the other teams QB , dominated both sides of the line of scrimmage and had a RB that can make big plays. 3rd downs matter.


We put of a fiftyburger on Detroit because we dominated the line of scrimmage and got turnovers. Im sure we lost the MIM stat against the 9ers but Im not to concerned about it. This MIM stat means almost nothing.

Someone mentioned running into full box or going deep against 2 deep, thats on the QB. Im pretty sure Wilson has the green light to get us in the right play. He has been given the info and gameplan to win those situation.

Our run game have been on par with the 9ers and Rams the last 3 years. We have had a top 10 offense the last 3 years. All while losing the MIM stat. But this is the side of the ball that causes all the hand wringing. I guess we all like being armchair OCs.

 

[getnasty]

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

Come on man. He just proved what we've all been saying and your still fighting it. The facts are that the offense looked great in week 1 and then reverted back to the same stagnant, predictable offense we see every year for long stretches. They incorporate the pre-snap motion to the same extent in the last few weeks and it looks great again. Anybody can see this. I dont know why you struggle so.

I read the post. He proved nothing.

It's funny that some think pre-snap motion was the magical solution that fixed this offense's problems. Go back and rewatch the offense last game vs the Cards. They really didn't use it that much.

The players simply executed better, period.

Yeah i Penny's highlights over the last 4 week and of all his good runs motion of any kind was only used on a couple of plays.

It would be interesting to actaully see the game by game stats on pre snap motion. I saw one chart from Nov saying Seattle was 12th in pre snap motion but have no clue where they ended up.

I'm not saying motion is bad i just think people are crazy for thinking Pete said no motion after 1 game of success.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Looks like people are still hung up on the pass/run ratio although Fade just gave stats of how the pre-snap motion was used in the first game and then suddenly abandoned afterwards up until the last few games, but throw that out the window because Russ can be used as the scapegoat for everything wrong on the offensive side of the ball. I just find it hysterical how after the first game, Pete came out in a presser stating that he spoke to Waldron after the game about how he wanted things done and the offense mysteriously fell back into the same old predictable offense we see every year in stints under Pete Carroll (I need to find that quote but thats a lot of searching to do). Its crazy how people dance around the obvious, but they do.

Russ gives Seattle the best chance of succeeding, but I almost want him to move on so that people will finally get that slap in the face they deserve as the Seahawks hover below .500 like Carroll has always done without #3.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Of course execution plays a part. You could run Hank Strams '65 Toss Power Sweep' every play and with perfect execution, it should work every time right? Wrong. Why because the defense would adjust to the point where no matter how well you execute, they would have it covered. You still need innovative deception to keep the defense on its toes and off balance and thats what Seattle went away from after week 1. They became their predictable, usual selves that they do every year for periods. Thats a Pete Carroll trait, not Russ or whoever is the OC flavor of the month.

Pounding a square peg into a round hole is Petes MO. 8 straight runs against the Saints is the definition of it.

 

[keasley45]

Yeah. Find that quote where he said to not do any of that motions. Maybe you have one that also talks about how Pete doesn't like throwing to the middle, or disagrees with Waldron about quick strike passing.

In the meantime, again, there's this one that quotes Pete after the Jags game, the first where Geno had his feet under him and Russ was on the bench.

This is in the article Fade quoted where Heaps talks about needing to run more motions and sweeps. In the article, he pretty plainly references the fact that against the Jags, we did it more. AGAINST THE JAGS. WITH GENO.

The Seahawks employed a fast passing attack that allowed them to really move the ball downfield efficiently.

“We were really quick with the football yesterday,” Carroll said. “I was really fired up about the rhythm that we were able to throw with. (Offensive coordinator) Shane Waldron really put the plan together to give Geno a shot to really function quickly. You saw all of the inside passes that we hit Tyler on and DK caught a couple. The rhythm of that is what made that work.”

“We have to continue to strive to stay in that pocket because that gives us a chance to get the ball out and the pass protection guys don’t have to work as long and we can move the football that way effectively where our guys can catch it,” he said.

Pete in that one presser pretty much shot down all the claims about him

1.not wanting to throw over the middle
2.not wanting to run the offense with tempo
3.being ok with Russ's scrambling play - he prefers the ball come out on time, in rhythm.

Oh, and in this game he miraculously is OK re-integrating sweeps and motions...

 

[keasley45]

Of course execution plays a part. You could run Hank Strams '65 Toss Power Sweep' every play and with perfect execution, it should work every time right? Wrong. Why because the defense would adjust to the point where no matter how well you execute, they would have it covered. You still need innovative deception to keep the defense on its toes and off balance and thats what Seattle went away from after week 1. They became their predictable, usual selves that they do every year for periods. Thats a Pete Carroll trait, not Russ or whoever is the OC flavor of the month.

Pounding a square peg into a round hole is Petes MO. 8 straight runs against the Saints is the definition of it.

Russ has final say. It's one of the hallmarks of the new offense. Maybe thats why he never once complained about not running it more when he started playing Russ ball and throwing bit everywhere...like he always has

Again, quoted from the beginning of the season, in case you forgot who has final say on what plays are run:

'The real emphasis Shane Waldron has put in his new Seahawks offense hinges on Wilson expanding his freedom to any play in a larger playbook, at any time. ...Waldron, his new offensive coordinator, gave him the play from the sideline. Wilson considered it, and the defense he saw. Then the quarterback used what he described as Waldron’s emphasis on giving him freedom to change any play to any other in the playbook more often this season. The idea is to not stubbornly pound a square peg into the defense’s round holes. That’s what Seattle did the latter half of last season.

Opponents in late 2020 dropped a second safety deep into the center of the field to take away DK Metcalf and Wilson’s long passes that shredded the NFL last September and October. The Seahawks kept trying those long throws, anyway. They had no counter to their later foes’ counter. That’s why Wilson and the previously soaring offense splatted in December. That’s why the Seahawks lost at home to the Los Angeles Rams in the first round of the playoffs to ruin a 12-4 season and NFC West championship. And that’s why head man Pete Carroll fired play caller Brian Schottenheimer and hired Waldron, the coordinator of the Rams’ quicker passing game, to be Seattle’s first-time offensive coordinator.'


The strategy against the Saints was situational and intentional, in the same way that Belichick had his qb throw only 3 times an entire game against thr Bills. We lost because our licker crapped the bed.

 

[keasley45]

The motions and sweeps disappeared when Russ went on his passing spree. He has control over what's called at the line. He puts together the plan with Waldron. Pete was frustrated the entire season with the offense while we throwing ourselves to lows on 3rd downs and drive duration. Pretty much every post game. Consistently. If it was his plan, why was he upset. And if Russ was being made to execute Pete's boring offense, why didn't he complain about it like he had no problem doing the entire offseason.

We added jet sweeps in while he was out with Geno. Then the week he comes back, abandon it and throw 40 times. And the offense stayed in pass happy Russ mode (which he defended) until the game after the team owner voiced disappointment in the team this year and prior.

After that, we started playing our best ball. Ball that was always predicated on the run when it worked, the pass when it didn't (Bears), and didn't always include sweeps and motions, but we won anyway. You can ignore that if you want but it's fact