Peteball at it's finest!

[scutterhawk]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

Teams generally run when they are winning. Teams generally pass when they are losing, but It's not run vs. pass argument, it's predictability vs. deception.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

Not all runs and passes are the same. Not all opponents are the same. You have to be a step ahead. Continuously running inside zone into loaded boxes isn't going to win a championship. And constantly throwing deep against teams in a 2 High shell isn't going to win a championship either.

Boiling it down to that is missing the point entirely.

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

And yet, we beat the 49rs more than we lose to them, so that 49r defender's 80% hasn't helped them a bunch, eh?
EXECUTION "is good".

 

[keasley45]

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

And yet, we beat the 49rs more than we lose to them, so that 49r defender's 80% hasn't helped them a bunch, eh?
EXECUTION "is good".

Committing to what you do well is good

 

[John63]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

Teams generally run when they are winning. Teams generally pass when they are losing, but It's not run vs. pass argument, it's predictability vs. deception.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

Not all runs and passes are the same. Not all opponents are the same. You have to be a step ahead. Continuously running inside zone into loaded boxes isn't going to win a championship. And constantly throwing deep against teams in a 2 High shell isn't going to win a championship either.

Boiling it down to that is missing the point entirely.

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

This^^^

 

[John63]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

THIS big this^^^^

 

[DarkVictory23]

Exactly. But as someone above mentioned, it cant be that when the run game is slowed, that we don't have a gear to switch to at all other than the long ball. Since he's been here, the run is what has allowed Russ to flourish, just as DK pointed out last week - we run, defenses cant take away the longer shots, and that opens up passes over the top.

But our pass game needs to be a bit more adaptable.

Hopefully Shane can get Russ to elevate his game and break that cycle enough with his arm that we dont just get stymied altogether.

If we build on the effectiveness of the run game we've had over the last 2 years now and just lean on it more, i think we can give ourselves a chance. Because THATS when the deception really begins to work for both the run and pass game.

This is the biggest hole (well, besides, as mentioned, our lack of consistent identity and competing philosophies): When/if a team is able to stuff our run game without bringing in their two safeties, that's when we are in trouble because we need our QB to adjust his philosophy.

Being able hit the underneath-just-past-the-chains guy in the center of the field is what we need in order to open back up both our run game AND the deep ball. And the fact is, we've seen time and again that guy get open and our QB either unable to hit him or just ignore him to throw the deep ball into double coverage because that's his go-to when our run game isn't working.

It's the biggest hole in our offense by a country mile. We need to be a run heavy/deep ball throwing offense that still knows how to move the chains when the defense isn't giving us what we need to make that work. And once we light them up with a few sustained drives, they either bring safeties in which allows Russ to do what he does best or they bring their linebackers back off the line and we get our RB back in the swing.

 

[LTH]

The lack of not just football knowledge but basic satistical awareness on this site is ridiculous.

Pete advocates running more last year and gets blasted because Russ cant cook. But we win those games. We won all but one when he stopped the passing nonsense last year... until the playoff loss, when we again decided to pass considerably more than we ran... despite the run game working very effectively against the Rams, and the passing game going 11 for 27 with a pick 6.

Then this year, Pete again advocates for more running and everybody complains because we put a good number of points with Russ and his good ol Play Action long balls... but then ignore the fact that we stagnate for half a game, are bottom of the league passing to convert for firsts (we were near last passing on 3rd down), and abandon a run game that ended up finishing 3rd in the league in terms of YPC and were 6th in YPC without Penny going nutts over the last few games.

So it wasnt execution in terms of the running game, nor was it the running game being hot cold. We had one tough game on the ground against the WFT and in that game we chose to only run 3 times per qtr. The rest of the time some one OBVIOUSLY NOT NAMED PETE CARROL decided to not run the ball.

He gets blasted for wanting to do what actually was the only thing that brought us wins this year. And then when we actually do what his strategy mandates, HE'S the one that was holding us back ??? WTF?

The hate here is something to behold. But honestly its good to see because if somebody can twist whatever blatant truth that exists to suit their view, it belies their true motivation.

These are the game splits, run/pass for the season that Russ played. All of the wins but one (2nd game against SF) came as a result of sticking with the run over the pass.

There's no magic here. the offense doesnt sink or sail on jetsweeps and motions. Those things help, but this offense runs best when it literally RUNS and passes off of the run. NOT the other way around. And its never been any different. The most crystal point of truth in it is our success during our SUperbowl runs, and the lesson learned on even that one faithful play when we chose pass over run, that has dictated the path of this franchise since.

i know its not as exciting and hurts the QB's chances of winning an MVP, but the stats dont lie.

Wk 1 won 49%
Wk 2 lost 65% , averaged 4.3 ypc
We 3 lost 65% , averaged 5.8 ypc
Wk 4 won 48%
Wk 5 lost 58% avgd 3.7 ypc
Wk 10 lost 72% avgd 4.6 ypc. Ran 11 times
Wk 11 lost 61% avgd 4.5 ypc
Wk 12 lost 73% avgd 2.8 ypc. ran 12 times
Wk 13 won 60% - The only game we won this year passing for more than 50%
Wk 14 won 49%
Wk 15 lost 64% , avgd 4.2 ypc, ran 19 times
Wk 16 lost 54% , avgd 7.1 ypc
Wk 17 won 42%
Wk 18 won 46%

Peteball (limiting passing and pounding the rock) got us the wins we got this year and saved the season last year.

And had we stuck to it in the playoffs last year, who knows how far we go.

Teams generally run when they are winning. Teams generally pass when they are losing, but It's not run vs. pass argument, it's predictability vs. deception.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/DannyBKelly/status/1438009269501190144[/tweet]

Not all runs and passes are the same. Not all opponents are the same. You have to be a step ahead. Continuously running inside zone into loaded boxes isn't going to win a championship. And constantly throwing deep against teams in a 2 High shell isn't going to win a championship either.

Boiling it down to that is missing the point entirely.

Last season in the pregame meetings Fox did before one of the 49ers-Seahawks games, they showed film to one of the 49ers defenders, and they asked him to predict the play based on alignment pre-snap. He got it correct 80% of the time.

Deception is good.

Excpet this year that was fault. We were winning and chose to pass. We played the GB Packers to a draw into the 4th qtr and ran 11 times the whole game. We ran effectively against literally every team.

We were never down to a degree we had to throw ourselves back into the game. Often we were winning and lost leads because we continued to throw, and as has been proven, are league worst passing on 3rd down and were league worst in plays per possession.

Yet, when we ran, we held leads, our TOP was better, our defense was better, and we won.

So yes, bad teams have to throw a lot. WE CHOSE to throw a lot. It was nothing other than a choice.

Wk 2, we lost because we 'kept our foot on the gas', passed to futility and handed the Titans the ball enought imes to tie and win.

The next weekl, we basicall played the Vikings to a draw and then stopped running in the 2nd half depsite the running game working at a 5 ypc clip.

The niners game - run was working, pass wasnt.

The Rams game run was working.

The Pittsburgh game - the run ws the only thing that gave us a chance.

Saints - we ran too much but still had an average that was 3.8 i think - so not failing.

Jax - ran

GB - ran 11 times and it was all that was woking - and we didnt fall behind until the last 12 minutes of the game - and didnt get to throw much after that because we coouldnt convert a first down.

Literally every game BUT the WFT game was effective on the ground and the run game was there. And we left it.

But keep on ignoring the truth AND HOW the games we lost this year played out.

League worst passing for 3rd downs.

League worst in avg time of offensive possession.

League low in avg plays per possession.

But top 3 in YPC at 5.0

But inexplicably in the lower half of the league in attempts.

And for all the excuses that we could have won had Russ not been injured. Explain to me how it is that if his finger injury lingered, that somebody (Not Pete) chose to, rather than run the ball to mitigate against his accuracy being off or however he was impacted by as a result of the injury, we CHOSE TO RELY ON HIS GRIP ON THE BALL AND MAYBE HIS REACTION TO PROTECT HIS HAND.

That makes less than zero ssnse.

Nor does fabricating some nonsensical narrative that Pete would have advocated going into every week saying secretly to Shane -- hey, its obvious Russ is still a little off, but lets not run too much this game, K?

Coming off of his injury, we passed 72% of the time, 61% of the time, and 73% of the time. We didnt trail significantly in any of those games.

Week one we run mostly and win. Week 2 the run game was killing it too, but we then choose instead to throw 65% of the time and let the Titans back in.

I think the part that is missing is they were NOT running the ball well on 3rd down. not till Penny came back. I think this is key


LTH

 

[AgentDib]

I can't believe people are still on this nonsense, but it just doesn't make fundamental sense that Pete would let have Waldron have his way over the entire off-season and week 1, and then change things AFTER a very successful performance that included zero turnovers. On top of that, one of our best offensive halves of the season was the first half of week 2. On top of that, we lost in week 2 by giving up a huge lead because we didn't run the ball enough.

If you really need to oversimplify this season then you can find much simpler explanations that aren't stupid. The offense looked better with a healthy Carson, Penny and Wilson and worse without them. Pretending you have superior football IQ as a way to justify hot takes without actually justifying them isn't impressing anybody.

 

[olyfan63]

We can go back and forth on run/pass ratios, but to me the whole key is the *league-worst-passing-on-3rd-down*.

Damn, it felt like we went 0-for -the season on 3rd and 4... Russell turning up his nose at the move-the-chains 5 yard throw, and heaving it 40 yards for an incompletion; lather, rinse, repeat.

Russell had so much more success yesterday on 3rd down passing than I can recall ever being the case; converted 3rd and 8, 3rd and 10, etc. Hawks were 8/12 in 3rd down conversions, best 3rd down success I can recall in a long time.

It didn't really matter that AZ "won" TOP, 35 minutes to 25 minutes, since Seattle was scoring quickly and often. Seattle had 5 TD drives with the longest one being 4:03 and 12.5 minutes total time, or an average of just over 2 minutes per TD drive, on drives of 75, 75, 72, 10, and 75 yards. It took about as long to go 10 yards and score as the 70+ yard drives.

Obviously, Penny running the ball so effectively helped, but I'm still in shock at Russell's 3rd down performance, including his TD run. On 3rd and long, there isn't really much of a run threat, and yet Russell succeeded often against the Cards. What was the difference? Why was Russell so successful on 3rd and long passing against the Cards?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Despite a strip fumble td and a near pick 6 Russ managed game
pretty well otherwise with Penny rocking and the D fighting hard.
We could and should have been doing this more.
Peteball wins!I'm still stoked off that game! :irishdrinkers:

Game was nice. That being said, we've seen Peteball work before. My issue is what happens when the Seahawk team runs into a team that has a good run defense and slowly takes more and more TOP through the game and a larger and large lead? The games we've seen time and time before (usually against the Rams or Packers), and the post game comments are always the same "well we just couldn't establish the run".

I enjoy a win as much as anyone else, but I am skeptical because I've seen this before. I've seen Pete ball be successful and the same story is given (see we just gotta run!) and then I've seen it fail and once again the same story is given. What I'd like to see is maybe more adaptation when Pete ball is NOT going to work or just stylistically not a good match up against certain teams/coaches/QB combos.

Anyway, Pete was not fired this morning, so Jody has spoken (without speaking). I am curious to see come April/May if RW is still on the team, at this point since Pete is staying.

Side note this part of your post amuses me because it would be a death warrant for just about any team/game.

Despite a strip fumble td and a near pick 6 Russ managed game
pretty well

Peteball didnt 'NOT' work in the playoffs last year. We out-passed ourselves to a lost identity and a loss. The year before, we didnt have a healthy back on the roster but for a street-dressed Lynch and Homer. Last year in the playoffs, the run was working.

This year, the Rams weakness was their run defense, by a wide margin. They werent good. And what did we do when we played them? Passed a good bit more than we ran. Why? Not Pete.

But that's when Russ needs to elevate his game and learn to move the chains. because when we cant run (whether because of injury or otherwise) AND Russ continues to play long ball, we lose. period. that's not the fault of Pete Ball, that's the result of the enigma of Russ when the run cant help him beat 2 high. THATS what needs to be fixed.

Lol. Seahawks beat the Rams in week 16 last year. Wilson throws 32 times to 24 runs. Two weeks later they lose to the Rams who had an injured QB and depleted defense in the playoffs. Wilson throws 27 times to 25 runs. Its not the pass/run ratio that made the difference. It was a coach that changed his game plan to give his team a chance to win and a coach that didnt change his game plan from just two weeks earlier. Pete-Ball did not work. What some of you are asking is for the QB to overcome piss poor coaching, but you dont even realize it. Its hard to overcome bad game planning for a QB, but Wilsons been damn good at it for a long time. Imagine how successful the team could be with an innovative coach thats quick to make changes when something isnt working.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

This, but let it go Fade. They have all the answers.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Pitt is on point yet again. Coaching, period.
Blatant refusal to adjust. In that playoff game, they didn't try to take what the defense was giving them.
Regular season game against the Giants last year, one of the worst coached games in Seahawks history imo.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

Dogshit, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that shit, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

 

[hoxrox]

Deception, creativity and a dynamic game plan based on the opponent is good, but it still all comes down to execution.

We've seen games where pre-snap motion was used but they still lost. We saw games where jets and sweeps resulted in negative yards.

What's been encouraging in the past couple of games is not only the dominate running game, but also Russ making better decisions, behind a line that has been blocking better. We're actually seeing slants to DK over the middle. We're seeing check downs to the TEs and RBs. We're seeing him step up into clean pockets, and not bailing on them.

Better blocking, a more balanced attack, a dominate run game, and better decisions by the QB is what it comes down to.

Exactly. But as someone above mentioned, it cant be that when the run game is slowed, that we don't have a gear to switch to at all other than the long ball. Since he's been here, the run is what has allowed Russ to flourish, just as DK pointed out last week - we run, defenses cant take away the longer shots, and that opens up passes over the top.

But our pass game needs to be a bit more adaptable.

Hopefully Shane can get Russ to elevate his game and break that cycle enough with his arm that we dont just get stymied altogether.

If we build on the effectiveness of the run game we've had over the last 2 years now and just lean on it more, i think we can give ourselves a chance. Because THATS when the deception really begins to work for both the run and pass game.

Russ actually admitted in a recent presser that he needs to be better at taking what the defense gives. So this indicates signs of growth - where before I thought he may have peaked... Maybe he's finally realizing that he doesn't need to be the hero for this offense to be successful. If this is truly the case, then I expect good things going forward.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, he absolutely did admit it. He also said he needs to get rid of the ball faster. He's said he needs to play better several times over the years. I think people mistake his constant positive outlook for someone who doesn't take blame and/or doesn't hold himself accountable. Like any QB, he has his weaknesses.

 

[scutterhawk]

We can go back and forth on run/pass ratios, but to me the whole key is the *league-worst-passing-on-3rd-down*.

Damn, it felt like we went 0-for -the season on 3rd and 4... Russell turning up his nose at the move-the-chains 5 yard throw, and heaving it 40 yards for an incompletion; lather, rinse, repeat.

Russell had so much more success yesterday on 3rd down passing than I can recall ever being the case; converted 3rd and 8, 3rd and 10, etc. Hawks were 8/12 in 3rd down conversions, best 3rd down success I can recall in a long time.

It didn't really matter that AZ "won" TOP, 35 minutes to 25 minutes, since Seattle was scoring quickly and often. Seattle had 5 TD drives with the longest one being 4:03 and 12.5 minutes total time, or an average of just over 2 minutes per TD drive, on drives of 75, 75, 72, 10, and 75 yards. It took about as long to go 10 yards and score as the 70+ yard drives.

Obviously, Penny running the ball so effectively helped, but I'm still in shock at Russell's 3rd down performance, including his TD run. On 3rd and long, there isn't really much of a run threat, and yet Russell succeeded often against the Cards. What was the difference? Why was Russell so successful on 3rd and long passing against the Cards?

Because the threat of Penny's quickness through the holes, kept them from just pinning their ears back and go full boar to get at Russ, and too, I believe Wilsons' finger is very close to 100% healed up, and his reads & strikes were a tad bit faster to boot.

 

[Fade]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

 

[John63]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff
contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

THIS^^^^^

 

[Jville]

:177692: ............... This team is in good hands ....... more fun times ahead!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Seahawks/status/1480578178619826185[/tweet]

 

[Maelstrom787]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

McVay ball? You do see that the Rams are not part of the top 5 teams in the Tweet you listed there, right?

That aside, your entire argument rests upon a conspiracy held up by a one game sample size of heavy pre-snap motion, and falls especially flat when you're attempting to directly correlate pre-snap motion with offensive success as if only archaic offenses do not utilize motion - Tampa Bay being an example of a team that has used it fairly sparingly prior to this year, and early in the season even.

Notice how they switched it up, though. Evolution. Interesting. Almost as if teams and philosophies aren't static.

I can't imagine equating pre-snap motion with complexity, either. The McVay attack you're referring to was renowned for being SIMPLE yet effective. What a false equivalency.

You argue for complexity, yet also argue for fairly direct adherence to a specific set of offensive concepts. You fail to see the hypocrisy in this.

You're just angry they didn't do exactly what you thought they would. You then equate a lack of pre-snap motion with a lack of success, as if there's a strong correlation.

PS: Frank Clark has 4.5 sacks this year. You'd be absolutely shitting your pants all over the board if Seattle paid him that contract for that type of production. They did exactly what anyone else would consider ideal - get his best years, ship him out for a haul. If you're honestly still painting that as a loss for Seattle, you should probably hang out with Niner fans.

 

[John63]

Except literally none of that is true, because the vast majority of what he listed has been present all year.

These are the facts. Seattle was #1 in pre-snap motion in week 1. They then fell to bottom 3 in the league up until the Lions game. The last 2 weeks they were again in the top 5.

You're either fanboing hard for Pete, have a dog$hit memory, or you don't really understand what you're watching. Which is it?

$h!t, huh?

This coming from the guy who would take Derek Carr over Pat Mahomes and judged Frank Clark a bad draft pick because he didn't get a second contract here?

Miss me with that $h!t, dollar store Kearly.

Also, feel free to provide the source for the presnap stats and I'll be happy to take a look.

Wow. Gaslighting to the max.

1) Derek Carr over Patty Mahomes during his early season struggles. I clearly stated "Right now, not longterm."
Derek Carr was clearly playing better over that stretch. Would you like to argue different?

2) They botched the Frank Clark negotiation, letting it drag out too long, they had no choice but to trade him.

3) The fact still remains they went away from pre-snap motion, and that Ram's-like attack for most of the season, despite whatever names you'd like to call me. Then brought it back the final two weeks once eliminated from playoff contention.

This is how it went:

Week 1:
https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-...e-of-pre-snap-motion-fly-sweeps-with-seahawks

https://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-s...ne-waldron-partnership-gets-off-to-fast-start

Among the new elements of Waldron's offense are an increased reliance on fast tempo, more pre-snap motion, how they use running backs in the passing game and using receivers in the run game with fly sweeps.


But by mid-year:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_Eric/status/1455527080431693836[/tweet]

The reason it doesn’t make sense is because the Seahawks have a new offensive coordinator in Shane Waldron who comes from a Rams system that has utilized pre-snap motion a great deal over the last few years under Sean McVay. And in the Seahawks’ first game of the year against the Colts, the offense used pre-snap motion a lot.

“The first game, you saw so much pre-snap motion, you saw so much creativity. I mean, it was amazing,” Heaps said. “… It was like man, this is a way different look, a way different feel to this offense. And that was one aspect of it that I was really excited about Shane Waldron (bringing to the Seahawks) offensively. We have not seen that happen enough.”

Heaps thinks that if the Seahawks “let Shane Waldron be himself” as a playcaller, then we will see them use pre-snap motion more going forward.
https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1522...se-needs-to-get-back-to-doing-after-bye-week/

That last sentence summarizes it perfectly.

Having to actually have a debate about this is ridiculous. It is clear and obvious.

McVay Ball.

You're legit arguing against facts. This is not an opinion. The Seahawks used more motion in game 1. They went away from it. Late season they went back to it.

This^^^^