Does Macdonald keep Geno?

[bigcc]

Even with that view, 11th best simply is not good enough.

Disagree, if he was paid rookie money we'd have 30 mil to ease the cap burden. I'd take that all day.

Problem is, geno is overpaid, and step out of fantasy land but we could make a push on it qb that actually does have a rookie contract

 

[Parallax]

Disagree, if he was paid rookie money we'd have 30 mil to ease the cap burden. I'd take that all day.

Problem is, geno is overpaid, and step out of fantasy land but we could make a push on it qb that actually does have a rookie contract

Pete loved to overpay to keep the guys he liked. Geno's contract is reasonable because there's so little guaranteed money but only if we cut him. That's why I'd like to see him cut.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

We need to release him so we can free up money for the rest of the team. We can find a cheaper vet Qb to compete with a rookie Qb if we draft one.

 

[Parallax]

We need to release him so we can free up money for the rest of the team. We can find a cheaper vet Qb to compete with a rookie Qb if we draft one.

That's what I think, except that I'd give Lock the first shot at being that cheaper vet.

I'd also cut Adams, Diggs and Dissley. I like Diss but he's not worth what we're paying. I'd like to try to resign Fant because his talent is above that of Diss or Parkinson. I believe Park remains under contract. If our new OC, whomever that is, wants to run three tight end sets, then maybe we try to resign Diss at a more reasonable price or draft someone or wait to see if there's value to be had among free agents.

Man, if Bowers were available at 16, that would be hard to resist despite our deficiencies elsewhere. But most draft analysts believe he'll be gone well before. Guy is a beast.

 

[flv2]

Smith is due $22.5M in 2024. That's how much he adds to the cap bill. Teams can manipulate cap hits to a degree so that probably won't be what he adds to the 2024 cap if he stays. I think his current contract value is about right. Potentially another team might value him a bit higher and be prepared to trade a 4th round pick for his contract. Equally his value might only be $19M and at $22.5M he'd have 0 or negative trade value.

I would retain him for now. If the Seahawks get a 1st round QB and want to trade Smith to reduce costs it's not a problem. The worst case scenario is they have to give up a low pick to a team that will take Smith off their hands.

 

[Threedee]

Man, if Bowers were available at 16, that would be hard to resist despite our deficiencies elsewhere. But most draft analysts believe he'll be gone well before. Guy is a beast.

I dunno. Bowers could be a bad influence.

 

[pmedic920]

I have not read the thread.

My answer to the OPs question is, he better until he finds something better.

 

[Parallax]

I dunno. Bowers could be a bad influence.

Actually did something similar from a hotel room in D.C. when I was a kid, maybe 12 or so. With pennies, not water balloons. Looking back, it's lucky no one was hurt. Don't think I scored any direct hits. It would bounce on the pavement and the person would jump. Was there with my grandmother. Guess she wasn't that into supervision or thought I could do no wrong or something.

 

[Parallax]

I have not read the thread.

My answer to the OPs question is, he better until he finds something better.

It's not that simple. We have cap problems and need to make cuts. Where to make them is the issue. And where they can best be made. Where is there the most value. Those of us who don't see Geno as particularly . . . you know, well . . . good -- have this idea that similar production (or better) could (perhaps) come from someone less expensive. Here I'll speak only for myself in feeling heartened by the non-committal comments that came from both Schneider and Macdonald when directly asked, on separate occasions, how they felt about the guy. Both were polite. Neither offered a ringing endorsement of the kind one would expect if they were locked in on the guy. Clearly, his best friend and biggest ally had left the building.

 

[chris98251]

I'm sorry to state the obvious, Geno is the leading cause to us running a vanilla offense. First off dude can't read his progressions to save his life. Lost count how many plays either Fant/Parkinson or JSN were open and he would force it to or already have in his mind he was goin Dk or Lockett. Just wait until Geno finally gets the boot he will be back to being clipboard Johny for another team.

When you don't use the run you lose the ability to have play action make the defense think, the line did not block well last season, also with pressure you may check down looking for your outlet and not progressions, thirdly if you were in the huddle and knew the 1,2,3, progressions your argument may have more weight, if not then missing guys if they were low on the target list and then having to use a check down or outlet due to blocking or coverage.

Geno was making reads and hitting guys the year before, so your argument of vanilla and reading progressions is moot, favored targeting well that can happen no doubt since he may trust them more playing with them longer or having practice reps with them.

The offense all year long looked out of sync in fact, not sure what really happened there.

 

[Parallax]

When you don't use the run you lose the ability to have play action make the defense think, the line did not block well last season, also with pressure you may check down looking for your outlet and not progressions, thirdly if you were in the huddle and knew the 1,2,3, progressions your argument may have more weight, if not then missing guys if they were low on the target list and then having to use a check down or outlet due to blocking or coverage.

Geno was making reads and hitting guys the year before, so your argument of vanilla and reading progressions is moot, favored targeting well that can happen no doubt since he may trust them more playing with them longer or having practice reps with them.

The offense all year long looked out of sync in fact, not sure what really happened there.

My sense is Geno and the rest of the offense caught the league by surprise in 2022 and then teams watched films and figured out his weaknesses. He actually did better late in the season this year and I'm not sure why, but I kept thinking as I watched the games that the way to stop him was to apply pressure and dare him to find the open man. When teams did this, it worked. They didn't do it as much as I expected. Baltimore sure did. The Eagles didn't and neither did the Cards. Obviously, you can't blitz too often because it will become mono-dimensional. But they weren't doing it enough to expose his inability to cope with pressure. Something really good QBs and really good offenses make you pay for. Something that Russell Wilson back in the day could really make you regret.

 

[12forlife]

I mostly agree, but not about lock. Dude is a solid qb2, but his absolute ceiling is mid starting qb and I'm hesitant to even say that.

If he's our guy I might actually weep.

Something absolutely needs to be done with lockett, 27 mil is ridiculous, an extension to smooth it out is reasonable, he has the skill set to play very well for another 3-4 years.

Dk isn't movable this year though, and he's 26, it'd have to be a kings ransom to be worth it, especially considering moving him only saves 1.5 mil.

His pay for 24 is 10th for wr's, pretty fair to me

Agreed on Lockett, but I don't think he plans to play WR for 4 more seasons? I think he is close to retiring, he already has an established Real-estate buisness in Seattle. Locket might possibly be up for a 2-3 yr extension with an out like they have with Geno. Lockett if anyone would sign an extension and lower his cost to finish his career in Seattle, which he should with a reduced roll with JSN now going to eat alot of his targets

 

[12forlife]

When you don't use the run you lose the ability to have play action make the defense think, the line did not block well last season, also with pressure you may check down looking for your outlet and not progressions, thirdly if you were in the huddle and knew the 1,2,3, progressions your argument may have more weight, if not then missing guys if they were low on the target list and then having to use a check down or outlet due to blocking or coverage.

Geno was making reads and hitting guys the year before, so your argument of vanilla and reading progressions is moot, favored targeting well that can happen no doubt since he may trust them more playing with them longer or having practice reps with them.

The offense all year long looked out of sync in fact, not sure what really happened there.

It's hardly moot. There are a plenty of people on .net that see what I'm seeing. The only reason Geno took over for Russell was because Pete had got lazy, and didn't want to mold a young QB with his last few years coaching so he hitched his wagon to Geno because he was safe, and new the system, and ultimatelygot Pete fired, cause he wasnt gonna change, and look for better at the position. Here in lies why they should Draft their QBOTF. I you honestly think Geno is picking up the new Playbook faster then these young bright QB's in the draft, I think your mistaken? Geno isn't the brightest star in the sky.

 

[pmedic920]

It's not that simple. We have cap problems and need to make cuts. Where to make them is the issue. And where they can best be made. Where is there the most value. Those of us who don't see Geno as particularly . . . you know, well . . . good -- have this idea that similar production (or better) could (perhaps) come from someone less expensive. Here I'll speak only for myself in feeling heartened by the non-committal comments that came from both Schneider and Macdonald when directly asked, on separate occasions, how they felt about the guy. Both were polite. Neither offered a ringing endorsement of the kind one would expect if they were locked in on the guy. Clearly, his best friend and biggest ally had left the building.

Is what it is, but as the old saying goes…..

….ya don’t throw the baby away with the bath water.

We know what we have with Geno, he’s serviceable.
May not be a great value but he’s certainly better than an unknown/gamble @QB

I’m certainly not sold on Geno, I’d absolutely advocate for seeking better.
I’m not willing to toss him in hopes of landing something better.

 

[chris98251]

It's hardly moot. There are a plenty of people on .net that see what I'm seeing. The only reason Geno took over for Russell was because Pete had got lazy, and didn't want to mold a young QB with his last few years coaching so he hitched his wagon to Geno because he was safe, and new the system, and ultimatelygot Pete fired, cause he wasnt gonna change, and look for better at the position. Here in lies why they should Draft their QBOTF. I you honestly think Geno is picking up the new Playbook faster then these young bright QB's in the draft, I think your mistaken? Geno isn't the brightest star in the sky.

If so show me the New articles, show me a report, show me the insider article, if not that's just an opinion.

As far as .Net, you can pick and choose which side of the argument you want to side with and you will have plenty of posters that lean that way. I mean look how many said Wilson walked on water and it was all Pete, how many said it was the OC's and not Wilson, how many stated that there was no division between the team concerning Wilson, the Defense and Lynch.

They didn't draft a QB of any regard for so long because Wilson would throw a hissy fit due to his insecurities, look back of just rumors of trades or looking at QB's caused Wilson to go off the deep end.

John always believed in the Green Bay Model.

 

[bigcc]

That's what I think, except that I'd give Lock the first shot at being that cheaper vet.

I'd also cut Adams, Diggs and Dissley. I like Diss but he's not worth what we're paying. I'd like to try to resign Fant because his talent is above that of Diss or Parkinson. I believe Park remains under contract. If our new OC, whomever that is, wants to run three tight end sets, then maybe we try to resign Diss at a more reasonable price or draft someone or wait to see if there's value to be had among free agents.

Man, if Bowers were available at 16, that would be hard to resist despite our deficiencies elsewhere. But most draft analysts believe he'll be gone well before. Guy is a beast.

Bowers isn't even going to hit 10

 

[bigcc]

Smith is due $22.5M in 2024. That's how much he adds to the cap bill. Teams can manipulate cap hits to a degree so that probably won't be what he adds to the 2024 cap if he stays. I think his current contract value is about right. Potentially another team might value him a bit higher and be prepared to trade a 4th round pick for his contract. Equally his value might only be $19M and at $22.5M he'd have 0 or negative trade value.

I would retain him for now. If the Seahawks get a 1st round QB and want to trade Smith to reduce costs it's not a problem. The worst case scenario is they have to give up a low pick to a team that will take Smith off their hands.

Nobody is going to trade for Geno with all the available/younger/cheaper QB's, and 22.5 mil is his cash number this year. Which for our interest is irrelevant.

You're right in that he doesn't add 22.5 because you're not adding the 9.6 million roster bonus he gets 3/17.

Draft a qb and want to trade geno? DEFINITELY a problem. So along with the 9.6 roster bonus on 3/17, his 12.7 mil base salary becomes fully guaranteed 2/16.

So, the salary being guaranteed doesn't matter if we keep him for the year or trade him, his salary stays guaranteed at that date for the year regardless of what team he's on. But after 2/16 those are the only two options left because cutting him at that point would be stupid instead of doing it before the 16th, and in fact literally worthless after the roster bonus on 3/17. We'd save zero dollars.

If we cut geno before 2/16 we save 13.8 mil on the cap this year, and free an additional 8.7 the year after since next years signing bonus would move up. Same if we trade geno before 3/17. If we trade geno after 3/17 and before kickoff we'd save 4.2 then 8.7 the next year, and less each week into the season. So these are very important dates, for practical purposes 2/16 is the deadline to cut him and 3/17 is the deadline to trade him.

So literally everything you said is wrong lol, but it's a weird contract. 9.6 is a MASSIVE roster bonus, and the 12.7 base becoming guaranteed makes it more confusing as well.

From geno's standpoint, it ensures we can't just hold on to him to see if we get the qb we want in the draft, and if he looks week one ready in camp or not, while other teams are signing the other free agent QB's. You can see why that'd be an issue from his perspective if we find out our new qb is set, and cut geno when teams are all set at qb.

Likewise, it gives the team the opportunity to where, if geno doesn't fit our plans for the future (keep in mind this was signed before this past season) *wink wink*, they have some extra fat to trim off opposed to for example the 9.6 roster bonus being added onto the amount guaranteed at signing where we pay it no matter what.

The roster bonus only applies to the seahawks, and only if he's still on the team on 3/17, it doesn't carry over in a trade. So it makes him more appealing to other teams who may want to trade for him opposed to the roster bonus being spread through the base salary where whoever trading for him is stuck with the bill.

Makes a bit more sense why geno signed such a seemingly team friendly deal, seems pretty fair all around tbh.

Again, if we're going to cut geno it will be done before 2/16, and if we're going to trade him it will be before 3/17. I doubt anyone is going to give us picks for Geno, so it might end up a situation where we give geno and a 6th for a 7th kind of deal,similar to how the nba moves contracts occasionally.

After 3/17 the only way literally any money (4.2 mil) can be saved is by trading geno, but at that point might as well keep him lol.

I did a LOT of reading to wrap my head around this and learn the specifics on some of the terms so hopefully at least somebody got something out of it.

Worth noting that next year is almost a carbon copy regarding his contract, except there's no salary guarantee date.

So anyone who has mentioned cutting geno, it's happening by 2/16 if at all .

 

[bigcc]

Agreed on Lockett, but I don't think he plans to play WR for 4 more seasons? I think he is close to retiring, he already has an established Real-estate buisness in Seattle. Locket might possibly be up for a 2-3 yr extension with an out like they have with Geno. Lockett if anyone would sign an extension and lower his cost to finish his career in Seattle, which he should with a reduced roll with JSN now going to eat alot of his targets

An extension allows the guaranteed money to be spread over 4 years instead of 2, he'd still be paid the same, but it would allow the seahawks wiggle room while he's still here. We would just still have the bonus count against our cap even once he retired, I didn't necessarily mean he'd play all 4.

 

[bigcc]

Is what it is, but as the old saying goes…..

….ya don’t throw the baby away with the bath water.

We know what we have with Geno, he’s serviceable.
May not be a great value but he’s certainly better than an unknown/gamble @QB

I’m certainly not sold on Geno, I’d absolutely advocate for seeking better.
I’m not willing to toss him in hopes of landing something better.

If you replaced geno with Pete the post would apply almost exactly the same way

The problem is that this is going to be a yearly discussion and at some point, we're going to have to go with an unknown/gamble at qb unless we sign one in FA (hard pass).

This year makes sense with a new coaching staff/scheme

We can have two years of geno adapting to an entirely new new scheme, followed by 2 years of a rookie doing the same

Or skip the time with geno learning from literally square 1 (new HC, qb coach, OC, scheme, verbiage, etc etc) and start with a rookie now, instead of dealing with growing pains twice over.

 

[bigcc]

If so show me the New articles, show me a report, show me the insider article, if not that's just an opinion.

As far as .Net, you can pick and choose which side of the argument you want to side with and you will have plenty of posters that lean that way. I mean look how many said Wilson walked on water and it was all Pete, how many said it was the OC's and not Wilson, how many stated that there was no division between the team concerning Wilson, the Defense and Lynch.

They didn't draft a QB of any regard for so long because Wilson would throw a hissy fit due to his insecurities, look back of just rumors of trades or looking at QB's caused Wilson to go off the deep end.

John always believed in the Green Bay Model.

The green bay model? Is that the one where you have a qb start for 16 years, followed by a guy who starts for 15 years? Because russ only made it 10 and geno is knocking on deaths door.

Maybe he's utilizing the Schneider method.

Overpay a qb from limited success (geno/Flynn) bring in a rookie qb to unseat the short lived king (Wilson/pick #16)