Does Macdonald keep Geno?

[Parallax]

Why is it so many act like the twelfth highest cap hit for a QB in the top fifteen of most metrics is so high? Is it just that you think the NFL in general is paying too much for middling QBs? I have nothing against Geno or how much we are paying him and am fascinated at how many seem too.

He is a decent QB who pulled several wins out for us this season. Of course several of the posters who have been against him since the trade that got him the opportunity were not happy with him winning us games as it cost us draft position and made it a little harder to see the end of the Carroll era.

The question can not be answered until an OC has been hired as has been astutely pointed out by a few posters. What I hope happens is that we move on from him and set us up for the future. However, the several posters who seem obsessed with Smith and his play like he is robbing the Seahawks organization is bizarre.

I'll take a stab at explaining my concerns. I think a guy like Mahomes is worth his going rate. Any of the top five or six QBs in the league, those who can elevate a team and carry it on their backs. If you have to pay them 20% or even more of your cap space, it's worth it. Of course the best deal is in the first five years under the rookie contract (four if not a first rounder). Those years provide a real window of opportunity. But a team can win with a good chunk of its cap space going to one guy if he plays that position and is good enough.

However, the fact that a top five QB is worth $50M or more doesn't mean you can do a straight-line extrapolation downward and calculate fair market value. The Cards are overpaying Murray because he's not that good. He's way better than Geno but not worth the $40M+ he's getting paid. Geno isn't worth $30M. Not when you can get someone nearly as good (or just as good or maybe even better) for $10M or less. Last year, we could have signed Mayfield for $5M.

I don't think we'd do worse with Lock than with Geno. Plus, he has a much higher ceiling. Will he ever develop? I don't know, but I know that the chance is zero if he's never given a chance.

It seemed that Carroll was content to go 9-8, maybe make the playoffs and get blown out in the first round. He spoke like he was going to win it all but he was either lying of delusional. Our team wasn't nearly good enough to get far. I had enough of that. Yes, I would have preferred a true rebuild. I'd be happy now if we traded Lockett for a second or DK for a first. Would seem a smart move. One that prioritizes tomorrow over today. One that tries to improve beyond mediocrity. Something we could not do under "win now" Carroll.

 

[chris98251]

I think everyone is getting a bit ahead of things, our team was not playing as a unit, we had too many injuries, our O line and D line under performing, players were playing selfishly and frustrated. Pretty sure until we see the team and that's Geno in an offense that is more wide open and not so predictable and conservative, we really don't have any idea how well Geno can play. I stated in another thread Pete allowed Waldron to open things up until there was a mistake and then promptly shut it down to the 3-quarter offense no risk and safe no crossing or creative play calls.

 

[Parallax]

I think everyone is getting a bit ahead of things, our team was not playing as a unit, we had too many injuries, our O line and D line under performing, players were playing selfishly and frustrated. Pretty sure until we see the team and that's Geno in an offense that is more wide open and not so predictable and conservative, we really don't have any idea how well Geno can play. I stated in another thread Pete allowed Waldron to open things up until there was a mistake and then promptly shut it down to the 3-quarter offense no risk and safe no crossing or creative play calls.

You make good points. If the new coaches deem another season with Geno a smart move, I will defer to them. Unless and until they make that decision, I'm gonna keep thinking he's likely gone.

 

[Jville]

I think everyone is getting a bit ahead of things, our team was not playing as a unit, we had too many injuries, our O line and D line under performing, players were playing selfishly and frustrated. Pretty sure until we see the team and that's Geno in an offense that is more wide open and not so predictable and conservative, we really don't have any idea how well Geno can play. I stated in another thread Pete allowed Waldron to open things up until there was a mistake and then promptly shut it down to the 3-quarter offense no risk and safe no crossing or creative play calls.

It never got into a sustainable rhythm. Never got rolling.

 

[12forlife]

Why is it so many act like the twelfth highest cap hit for a QB in the top fifteen of most metrics is so high? Is it just that you think the NFL in general is paying too much for middling QBs? I have nothing against Geno or how much we are paying him and am fascinated at how many seem too.

He is a decent QB who pulled several wins out for us this season. Of course several of the posters who have been against him since the trade that got him the opportunity were not happy with him winning us games as it cost us draft position and made it a little harder to see the end of the Carroll era.

The question can not be answered until an OC has been hired as has been astutely pointed out by a few posters. What I hope happens is that we move on from him and set us up for the future. However, the several posters who seem obsessed with Smith and his play like he is robbing the Seahawks organization is bizarre.

The thing people are not understanding is you/they say Geno was around 15th in most stats? Now take into account the amount of starting QB's that missed the majority of the season? If all 32 starters played 17 games Geno then would have been in the 20's. Let's just stop excepting mediocre QB play. For God sake it is the most important position in football. At the very most if they bring Geno back its only to sit over our rookie QBOTF until he is ready. I believe they should ask Geno to restructure or go with Lock competing with the rookie.

 

[12forlife]

I think everyone is getting a bit ahead of things, our team was not playing as a unit, we had too many injuries, our O line and D line under performing, players were playing selfishly and frustrated. Pretty sure until we see the team and that's Geno in an offense that is more wide open and not so predictable and conservative, we really don't have any idea how well Geno can play. I stated in another thread Pete allowed Waldron to open things up until there was a mistake and then promptly shut it down to the 3-quarter offense no risk and safe no crossing or creative play calls.

I'm sorry to state the obvious, Geno is the leading cause to us running a vanilla offense. First off dude can't read his progressions to save his life. Lost count how many plays either Fant/Parkinson or JSN were open and he would force it to or already have in his mind he was goin Dk or Lockett. Just wait until Geno finally gets the boot he will be back to being clipboard Johny for another team.

 

[bigcc]

I'll take a stab at explaining my concerns. I think a guy like Mahomes is worth his going rate. Any of the top five or six QBs in the league, those who can elevate a team and carry it on their backs. If you have to pay them 20% or even more of your cap space, it's worth it. Of course the best deal is in the first five years under the rookie contract (four if not a first rounder). Those years provide a real window of opportunity. But a team can win with a good chunk of its cap space going to one guy if he plays that position and is good enough.

However, the fact that a top five QB is worth $50M or more doesn't mean you can do a straight-line extrapolation downward and calculate fair market value. The Cards are overpaying Murray because he's not that good. He's way better than Geno but not worth the $40M+ he's getting paid. Geno isn't worth $30M. Not when you can get someone nearly as good (or just as good or maybe even better) for $10M or less. Last year, we could have signed Mayfield for $5M.

I don't think we'd do worse with Lock than with Geno. Plus, he has a much higher ceiling. Will he ever develop? I don't know, but I know that the chance is zero if he's never given a chance.

It seemed that Carroll was content to go 9-8, maybe make the playoffs and get blown out in the first round. He spoke like he was going to win it all but he was either lying of delusional. Our team wasn't nearly good enough to get far. I had enough of that. Yes, I would have preferred a true rebuild. I'd be happy now if we traded Lockett for a second or DK for a first. Would seem a smart move. One that prioritizes tomorrow over today. One that tries to improve beyond mediocrity. Something we could not do under "win now" Carroll.

I mostly agree, but not about lock. Dude is a solid qb2, but his absolute ceiling is mid starting qb and I'm hesitant to even say that.

If he's our guy I might actually weep.

Something absolutely needs to be done with lockett, 27 mil is ridiculous, an extension to smooth it out is reasonable, he has the skill set to play very well for another 3-4 years.

Dk isn't movable this year though, and he's 26, it'd have to be a kings ransom to be worth it, especially considering moving him only saves 1.5 mil.

His pay for 24 is 10th for wr's, pretty fair to me

 

[Titus Pullo]

Free Agency starts Mar 13.
Lock is an unrestricted Free Agent.
I'm sure something will be decided before then.

 

[bigcc]

The thing people are not understanding is you/they say Geno was around 15th in most stats? Now take into account the amount of starting QB's that missed the majority of the season? If all 32 starters played 17 games Geno then would have been in the 20's. Let's just stop excepting mediocre QB play. For God sake it is the most important position in football. At the very most if they bring Geno back its only to sit over our rookie QBOTF until he is ready. I believe they should ask Geno to restructure or go with Lock competing with the rookie.

Geno missed 2 full games and was hurt for portions of others, he would not have been in the 20s lol

That being said, I agree that it's time to move on.... Dude is 33, we know who he is he's not going to suddenly blow up again.

If people are hating on Pete for mediocrity last few years, they can't be on board with geno going forward

And certainly not lock, mediocrity might be out of reach for him

 

[Parallax]

I mostly agree, but not about lock. Dude is a solid qb2, but his absolute ceiling is mid starting qb and I'm hesitant to even say that.

If he's our guy I might actually weep.

Something absolutely needs to be done with lockett, 27 mil is ridiculous, an extension to smooth it out is reasonable, he has the skill set to play very well for another 3-4 years.

Dk isn't movable this year though, and he's 26, it'd have to be a kings ransom to be worth it, especially considering moving him only saves 1.5 mil.

His pay for 24 is 10th for wr's, pretty fair to me

DK came a long way this year. I wouldn't want to move on from him for less than a high first. He's that good.

I don't see Lockett playing successfully for 3 to 4 years so I doubt they'll extend. He's in fairly steep decline, and WRs usually don't make it far beyond 30. 36 is almost unheard of.

 

[Parallax]

Geno missed 2 full games and was hurt for portions of others, he would not have been in the 20s lol

That being said, I agree that it's time to move on.... Dude is 33, we know who he is he's not going to suddenly blow up again.

If people are hating on Pete for mediocrity last few years, they can't be on board with geno going forward

And certainly not lock, mediocrity might be out of reach for him

Pete never really gave Lock a chance. I'll admit that when he had chances, he only looked great on a couple of drives. But if he had the team's support, he might do better. It's hard to come in as the backup.

 

[bigcc]

DK came a long way this year. I wouldn't want to move on from him for less than a high first. He's that good.

I don't see Lockett playing successfully for 3 to 4 years so I doubt they'll extend. He's in fairly steep decline, and WRs usually don't make it far beyond 30. 36 is almost unheard of.

It'd have to be like 3-6 range for me to consider moving dk and I'm still not sure if I'd be comfortable, unless it meant we could draft one of the 3 QB's and odunze at 16 (significant cap savings 2025+ as well), won't happen though

Lockett had a bad year but his skillset will allow him to play longer than most.

Mike Evans is around the same age, would you give him the bag if you're the bucs? His skillset will die much earlier than locketts

I swear to god if we let him walk he's going straight to the 9ers or rams, I don't think he's going to have a market for trade that would be worth it.

I'm hoping for a rookie qb and I want him to have as many weapons as possible

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

The thing people are not understanding is you/they say Geno was around 15th in most stats? Now take into account the amount of starting QB's that missed the majority of the season? If all 32 starters played 17 games Geno then would have been in the 20's. Let's just stop excepting mediocre QB play. For God sake it is the most important position in football. At the very most if they bring Geno back its only to sit over our rookie QBOTF until he is ready. I believe they should ask Geno to restructure or go with Lock competing with the rookie.

Please be right he's been a JaG for most his career for a reason I'm hoping Macdonald and his staff realize this and demand that JS draft someone that might be elite even if it's Penix or similar. Personally I'd prefer we get lucky and snag Rattler in the 3rd round he knows how to perform with a shit OL and been called Mahomes lite.I can deal with that all day every day.

 

[bigcc]

Please be right he's been a JaG for most his career for a reason I'm hoping Macdonald and his staff realize this and demand that JS draft someone that might be elite even if it's Penix or similar. Personally I'd prefer we get lucky and snag Rattler in the 3rd round he knows how to perform with a shit OL and been called Mahomes lite.I can deal with that all day every day.

As an avid uw fan, I'd rather root for bo nix or jj than rattler

He's a trash person, dude got bood in his home stadium lmao

He's rail thin for a qb he's never going to last 17 games, he's a mid passer and makes stupid throws.

Also no mobility, comparing him to mahomes is a joke.

Watch him in the senior bowl today compared to penix and get back at me afterwards.

I literally don't even want him as a backup, too toxic

EDIT: dislike for rattler aside, I respect repping the hawks in kc when it's so easy to bandwagon, props

 

[Lagartixa]

I'll take a stab at explaining my concerns. I think a guy like Mahomes is worth his going rate. Any of the top five or six QBs in the league, those who can elevate a team and carry it on their backs. If you have to pay them 20% or even more of your cap space, it's worth it. Of course the best deal is in the first five years under the rookie contract (four if not a first rounder). Those years provide a real window of opportunity. But a team can win with a good chunk of its cap space going to one guy if he plays that position and is good enough.

Mahomes holds the record for being responsible for the highest percentage of his team's salary cap for a single player on a Super Bowl champion, at 17.16% of the cap. Before that, it had been Steve Young's 13.1% for a very long time.

So if the goal is to win Super Bowls, it looks to me like it's not worth it to use 20% or more of the team's cap space on a single player. And that makes sense. With a lower quarterback cap hit, a team can invest more in the rest of the roster, allowing for a stronger and deeper team.

 

[WarHawks]

I'm sorry to state the obvious, Geno is the leading cause to us running a vanilla offense. First off dude can't read his progressions to save his life. Lost count how many plays either Fant/Parkinson or JSN were open and he would force it to or already have in his mind he was goin Dk or Lockett. Just wait until Geno finally gets the boot he will be back to being clipboard Johny for another team.

This. I get having to play him due to cap considerations, but beyond that, his middling production is easily replaceable by any number of other [cheaper] free agents. As long as they finally draft a qbotf, I don't really care that much either way since this is a transition year much like 2010-11.

 

[keasley45]

The thing people are not understanding is you/they say Geno was around 15th in most stats? Now take into account the amount of starting QB's that missed the majority of the season? If all 32 starters played 17 games Geno then would have been in the 20's. Let's just stop excepting mediocre QB play. For God sake it is the most important position in football. At the very most if they bring Geno back its only to sit over our rookie QBOTF until he is ready. I believe they should ask Geno to restructure or go with Lock competing with the rookie.

Geno was the 9th ranked qb last year and the 13th this year. With one of the worst o lines and running games.

Still with that, he's averaged 11th best over 2 years. That has nothing to do with games played. He's not the 15th best. He's not the 20th.

 

[bigcc]

This. I get having to play him due to cap considerations, but beyond that, his mediocre production is easily replaceable by any number of other [cheaper] free agents. As long as they finally draft a qbotf, I don't really care that much either way since thus is a transition year much like 2010-11.

Qbotf hopefully gets the lions share of snaps too.... Better he's ready and has game experience when the team is ready to make a serious run

 

[WarHawks]

Geno was the 9th ranked qb last year and the 13th this year. With one of the worst o lines and running games.

Still with that, he's averaged 11th best over 2 years. That has nothing to do with games played. He's not the 15th best. He's not the 20th.

Even with that view, 11th best simply is not good enough. Both qb's playing in the sb next week are top five.

 

[bigcc]

Geno was the 9th ranked qb last year and the 13th this year. With one of the worst o lines and running games.

Still with that, he's averaged 11th best over 2 years. That has nothing to do with games played. He's not the 15th best. He's not the 20th.

To be fair, he has a top 3 receiving core last 2 years