MacDonald riding with Geno

keasley45

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Mac has never wavered in his support for Geno which should mean something considering how quick he can be to call out poor play and players. When asked about Geno's play, he again stated that he played very well this year and that although he did have the int issue and needs to work through that, he was also quick to reaffirm that many of those errors were 'team' errors. Take that how you will but its pretty evident Mac understands WHY much of the poor play on offense occured and isnt so quick to do away with a qb he considers to be the answer for the Seahawks at this point in time.

I expect them to try to keep Geno here next year and if they can work out a deal that protects them from paying top dollar for a 38 year old player on the decline and leverage the moment they have to maximize his potential in a system that supports him, they will do it. If they thought Geno was the same kind of liability that Grubb was and that riding with him would result in them underachieving for a 4th consecutive year, their plan would be to aggressively pursue other options.

This seems to make it clear that in the HCs eyes, Geno can take them where they need to go right now and best case is getting the guy to replace him on the bench and learning from him asap.
 

SoulfishHawk

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IF they get someone to learn from Geno next year, I'm all in. Geno would be a good mentor, imo. He would embrace it.
That being said, a new contract? No thanks. Make him play out his final season of his current deal. Not really up to him, though he probably does have some leverage.
 

toffee

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Mac has never wavered in his support for Geno which should mean something considering how quick he can be to call out poor play and players. When asked about Geno's play, he again stated that he played very well this year and that although he did have the int issue and needs to work through that, he was also quick to reaffirm that many of those errors were 'team' errors. Take that how you will but its pretty evident Mac understands WHY much of the poor play on offense occured and isnt so quick to do away with a qb he considers to be the answer for the Seahawks at this point in time.

I expect them to try to keep Geno here next year and if they can work out a deal that protects them from paying top dollar for a 38 year old player on the decline and leverage the moment they have to maximize his potential in a system that supports him, they will do it. If they thought Geno was the same kind of liability that Grubb was and that riding with him would result in them underachieving for a 4th consecutive year, their plan would be to aggressively pursue other options.

This seems to make it clear that in the HCs eyes, Geno can take them where they need to go right now and best case is getting the guy to replace him on the bench and learning from him asap.

strong head wind though, When Macdonald and Schneider come to dotnet to gauge fan opinions. They will hear chanting of "Howell, Howell" and "any QB is better than GeNO".
 

pittpnthrs

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This seems to make it clear that in the HCs eyes, Geno can take them where they need to go right now and best case is getting the guy to replace him on the bench and learning from him asap.

Makes perfect sense to let Geno play out his contract and even try to resign him for maybe another season if it's on the cheap because there really isn't any better option at this point and there's still holes to be filled. Saying that, I don't think MM is expecting any kind of Super Bowl push with Geno, but he's servicable at the moment until they can figure out where to go from him.

I would love to see a good prospect sitting and learning behind him for a season or two, but I wonder where that leaves Howell (no idea about his contract right now without looking and make no mistakes about it,,,,,I don't think he's the answer in any form going forward)? Just curious if they just let him walk when his contracts up.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Dude who is saying Howell should be the starter next year? You keep saying this but I can't anyone who believes that.
This. Who is saying Howell should be the starter? I bet it's a very select few. If Geno is back, he needs to be the starter.
 

bigskydoc

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Makes perfect sense to let Geno play out his contract and even try to resign him for maybe another season if it's on the cheap because there really isn't any better option at this point and there's still holes to be filled. Saying that, I don't think MM is expecting any kind of Super Bowl push with Geno, but he's servicable at the moment until they can figure out where to go from him.

I would love to see a good prospect sitting and learning behind him for a season or two, but I wonder where that leaves Howell (no idea about his contract right now without looking and make no mistakes about it,,,,,I don't think he's the answer in any form going forward)? Just curious if they just let him walk when his contracts up.

This is where I am at. At a net cost of 25 million for 2025, Geno is the best we can do, barring finding a Russell Wilson/ Brock Purdy in the draft. He's either the second or third best QB, of the ones who didn't make the playoffs. We aren't going to find anything better for under 30 million, unless we score a miracle in the draft.

Howell costs 1.1 million next year and is an UFA in 2026. Unless we draft, or sign a UDFA, as a serviceable backup, he should stay.

I suppose, if the new OC comes in, and wants to bring in a rookie contract backup that he believes he can develop into a QBOTF, then it would be reasonable to cut Howell.
 

toffee

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Dude who is saying Howell should be the starter next year? You keep saying this but I can't anyone who believes that.
Do this:
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Type Howell
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Click search
 

sutz

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This is where I am at. At a net cost of 25 million for 2025, Geno is the best we can do, barring finding a Russell Wilson/ Brock Purdy in the draft. He's either the second or third best QB, of the ones who didn't make the playoffs. We aren't going to find anything better for under 30 million, unless we score a miracle in the draft.

Howell costs 1.1 million next year and is an UFA in 2026. Unless we draft, or sign a UDFA, as a serviceable backup, he should stay.

I suppose, if the new OC comes in, and wants to bring in a rookie contract backup that he believes he can develop into a QBOTF, then it would be reasonable to cut Howell.
Yeah, I don't see Geno playing for $25 mill in the 2025 season. With the incentives he earned this year I believe it will be closer to $45 mill, unless they do an extension that lowers his cap hit.
 

bigskydoc

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Yeah, I don't see Geno playing for $25 mill in the 2025 season. With the incentives he earned this year I believe it will be closer to $45 mill, unless they do an extension that lowers his cap hit.
He will be paid those incentives whether he remains on the team or is cut. He has already earned them, and they will count against next year's cap either way.

You are looking at his total cap hit, which is $44.5 million. I'm talking about net cap hit, the difference between cutting him or keeping him. I have it calculated at $25 million. After posting this, I noticed that flv, who admittedly has a better handle on cap calculations, has it at $31 million.

Looking back at his contract, it looks like he has $13.5 that will be paid either way, the Seahawks just have to decide if it is worth an additional $31 million to keep him for another year.
 

Ozzy

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it was some posts with people saying they want to see what Howell can do or play him the last game but I don't see a ton of people saying he should be our starter next year.

But I will add this for duscussion. Kirk Cousins came in against the Seahawks in the playoffs when RG3 went down and was possibly as bad as Howell was in his half a start this year. He obviously went on to be a really good QB for a decade. If we used the same reasoning people are using to say Howell will never be good. I would also add a lot of the same arguments used against Howell were used against Geno for years, Baker, Darnold, Goff etc. Heck the year Howell had last year shares a lot of similarities to the year Geno had this year.

Now not saying I want Howell as the starter because I don't but it is interesting that many think he is 100% a terrible quarterback based on a half of football.
 
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keasley45

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Makes perfect sense to let Geno play out his contract and even try to resign him for maybe another season if it's on the cheap because there really isn't any better option at this point and there's still holes to be filled. Saying that, I don't think MM is expecting any kind of Super Bowl push with Geno, but he's servicable at the moment until they can figure out where to go from him.

I would love to see a good prospect sitting and learning behind him for a season or two, but I wonder where that leaves Howell (no idea about his contract right now without looking and make no mistakes about it,,,,,I don't think he's the answer in any form going forward)? Just curious if they just let him walk when his contracts up.

I dont think Mac would look at this season as such a disappointment if he didnt think Geno and the offense were capable of significantly more. I also dont think *significantly better than 10-7 is 11-6 or 12-5. We had 11-6 in our hands with a win against the Giants and instead decided to throw 87% of downs against a defense that wasnt great at stopping the run.

Also, I think the fact that Geno is as good as he has made it easy to discern exactly what was wrong with the offense and why it ultimately failed.

When you have a qb who on 80+ percent of his throws is dead to rights accurate and throws directly to your guys 98.4 percent of the time (on his own), system failures are obvious.

And when you have a qb who throws an accurate ball 80+ percent of the time and only hits the other guys (on his own) 1.6% of the time, you can win a lot of games if everything else is working.

He also had the 2nd most 4th qtr comebacks and tied for 4th in game winning drives. And as Mac said, if they held serve against the Vikings, he would have had another one. And that's to say nothing for the 4th qtr drives that should have been against the Giants and the OT comeback we gave to the Rams.

People seem to lose sight of the fact that Geno dropped back to pass 630 times (3rd most in the league) this year when you take into account his attempts and sacks and did so with an ineffective offensive scheme, ineffective protection and a running game that was kept on the shelf and wasnt scaring anyone.

As analytics based as Mac is, I guarantee you that's how he sees Geno. If he didnt, he wouldnt be so steadfast in his praise for him and quick to talk down the picks.

And i'm sure that yes, they dont see Geno slinging the rock for them 4 years from now. But he and John are also about to go into contract negotiations with Geno, so tipping your hand with statements like ' we want Geno here as long as we can have him' when the goal is to get him for a decent number and on a contract with a near term out given his age, would be idiotic negotiating tactics. Better to leave it at 'Right now'.

In praising Geno as he does, talking down the INTs, firing Grubb, and simultaneously pinning the disappointment of the season on his offense and OC, he has gone about as far as he can in showing support for the QB without handing negotiating leverage to his side.

Its a cat and mouse game, no different than Geno saying the team will be ok whether or not he is here. Neither side can appear too eager.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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it was some posts with people saying they want to see what Howell can do or play him the last game but I don't see a ton of people saying he should be our starter next year.

But I will add this for duscussion. Kirk Cousins came in against the Seahawks in the playoffs when RG3 went down and was possibly as bad as Howell was in his half a start this year. He obviously went on to be a really good QB for a decade. If we used the same reasoning people are using to say Howell will never be good. I would also add a lot of the same arguments used against Howell were used against Geno for years, Baker, Darnold, Goff etc. Heck the year Howell had last year shares a lot of similarities to the year Geno had this year.

Now not saying I want Howell as the starter because I don't but it is interesting that many think he is 100% a terrible quarterback based on a half of football.

Howell was jobbed by Grubb. The OC inexplicably put a QB who hadnt played all year in a game and then proceeded to let im drop back 14 consecutive times. And then, when we did run and ran well, he set him up in the pocket again to just get pummeled.

Howell is better than he showed in that game where he was basically served up as a sacrificial lamb.

But anyone saying Howell's stats in Washington looked like Geno's this year either flat didnt watch the dude play or just dont know what they are looking at.
 

SoulfishHawk

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aaaah, sorry man. I just keep seeing posts claiming that some people actually think Howell is better than Geno and/or should be the starter.
You know I'm not close to a Geno fan, but hell no on Howell starting over him.
 

Ozzy

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Howell was jobbed by Grubb. The OC inexplicably put a QB who hadnt played all year in a game and then proceeded to let im drop back 14 consecutive times. And then, when we did run and ran well, he set him up in the pocket again to just get pummeled.

Howell is better than he showed in that game where he was basically served up as a sacrificial lamb.

But anyone saying Howell's stats in Washington looked like Geno's this year either flat didnt watch the dude play or just dont know what they are looking at.
There were some similarities though if we're being honest and you have to remember Howell was a rookie playing for a horrible team. A lot of the excuses we use for Geno this year if you're being consistent apply to Howell too. And Howell was in year one while Geno is in year 14 or whatever with a ton more experience to bank on.

Howell threw for almost 4,000 yards and had a 21/21 touchdown/int split. Real similar to Geno. Geno had a much higher completion percentage and a higher passer rating but Geno has a lower ADOT which helps in that regard too if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway my point remains. A lot of the same arguments used for Geno for over a decade are being used for Howell and Geno turned out pretty well. Geno was a disaster at times early in his career too.
 

Ozzy

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Are you saying i said that?

My statements were actually in support of Howell but pushed back on comments about how Howell's stats vs Genos are pretty much the same.
It's toffee that keeps repeating everyone thinks Howell is better. I can't find anyone actually saying that but maybe I missed it.

I think people have said its possible going much cheaper with a guy like Howell and using the money saves to improve other spots might be a better idea but that's a different argument.
 
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