Will Bevell effectively incorporate Graham

[jammerhawk]

Will Bevell ever effectively incorporate Graham into a form of short passing alternative change up from Marshawn and the read option with RW? If so do you expect it against the Bears or much later in the season? If I were a betting person I'd take the under due to Bevell's observable poor results with Miller and with Harvin.

It is frustrating to know the weapons are on the team but that due to poor play calling and a combination of weak pass protection and a short leash on RW that those alternatives to Lynch are not being effectively used or used in the way they were advertised as possible when Graham was acquired. Does anyone genuinely believe Bevell has done a fair job in incorporation of Graham into his O? If so why are we not seeing the anticipated production from him? Is Bevell to blame or is it mostly on RW?

The team should be able to make defences pay for stacking the box against Lynch and Wilson by exploiting the seam of the short zone or by using Grahams ability to almost immediately get vertical separation at will on LBs or S.

I think it is fair for the faithful to be starting to become restless.

 

[JAGHAWK]

I pray to the football gods that he does,

 

[Seahawks4eva]

He wants to outsmart everybody. He wants all pro bowl WR's and TE's to distract so we can throw it to Ricardo Lockette or a bubble screen to Doug Baldwin.

 

[Basis4day]

I've said this in other threads. Take all the times L Willson dropped a pass last year, and put Graham in his place.
Even if they cover Graham (As hes better than Willson), that should by design open up other players as a 2nd, 3rd read. Then it's on the player to get open and Russell to throw the ball, not on play design.

 

[edogg23]

Probably not... Bevell is an idiot. It drives me crazy on the radio hearing everyone say that it is ok if the Seahawks have slow 1st halves trying to feed Lynch the ball. Why can't we come out passing to Graham and others and then start mixing in the running game when they stop stacking the box.

How can it possibly benefit us to go 3 and out trying to feed Marshawn the ball when the box is stacked?

Another thing.. If Jimmy is single covered with no help in the red zone it should be automatic that the ball goes to him. Make teams have to put 2 defenders on him on the outside like they had to do with Tony Gonzalez.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He wants to outsmart everybody. He wants all pro bowl WR's and TE's to distract so we can throw it to Ricardo Lockette or a bubble screen to Doug Baldwin.

Pssst, Russell's the one throwing the balls to those guys.

 

[Basis4day]

Probably not... Bevell is an idiot. It drives me crazy on the radio hearing everyone say that it is ok if the Seahawks have slow 1st halves trying to feed Lynch the ball. Why can't we come out passing to Graham and others and then start mixing in the running game when they stop stacking the box.

How can it possibly benefit us to go 3 and out trying to feed Marshawn the ball when the box is stacked?

Because by the end of the game the opponent is gassed from dealing with Marshawn and an O-line which is better at run blocking than pass blocking. It works great when the Defense can hold the other team to field goals.

Where it is weak is when the other team gets and early lead and we're forced to throw without the benefit of an exhausted opponent on D.

 

[edogg23]

Probably not... Bevell is an idiot. It drives me crazy on the radio hearing everyone say that it is ok if the Seahawks have slow 1st halves trying to feed Lynch the ball. Why can't we come out passing to Graham and others and then start mixing in the running game when they stop stacking the box.

How can it possibly benefit us to go 3 and out trying to feed Marshawn the ball when the box is stacked?

Because by the end of the game the opponent is gassed from dealing with Marshawn and an O-line which is better at run blocking than pass blocking. It works great when the Defense can hold the other team to field goals.

Where it is weak is when the other team gets and early lead and we're forced to throw without the benefit of an exhausted opponent on D.

You will never gas an opponent going 3 and out, you will wear out a D much faster going no huddle and sustaining a drive.

 

[Basis4day]

Probably not... Bevell is an idiot. It drives me crazy on the radio hearing everyone say that it is ok if the Seahawks have slow 1st halves trying to feed Lynch the ball. Why can't we come out passing to Graham and others and then start mixing in the running game when they stop stacking the box.

How can it possibly benefit us to go 3 and out trying to feed Marshawn the ball when the box is stacked?

Because by the end of the game the opponent is gassed from dealing with Marshawn and an O-line which is better at run blocking than pass blocking. It works great when the Defense can hold the other team to field goals.

Where it is weak is when the other team gets and early lead and we're forced to throw without the benefit of an exhausted opponent on D.

You will never gas an opponent going 3 and out, you will wear out a D much faster going no huddle and sustaining a drive.

Which is why they don't run Marshawn 3 times in a row every-time and they don't go 3 and out every-time. That's hyperbole.

But as a philosophy, they want to beat up a team over the course of the game using the run, Play good D, win the game in the second half. It's been pretty successful thus far.

Every philosophy has strengths and weaknesses. Think of the Chip Kelly offense (Which is closer to the philosophy you're describing). When it works it does certain things, when it doesn't it leads to a lot of 3 and outs and our own D being gassed and dramatically shifting the time of possession.

 

[Anthony!]

He wants to outsmart everybody. He wants all pro bowl WR's and TE's to distract so we can throw it to Ricardo Lockette or a bubble screen to Doug Baldwin.

Pssst, Russell's the one throwing the balls to those guys.

PSST if JG is not the first or second option he doe snot have time to get to 3. IF the routes being run has JG double and triple teamed with PC risk adversive style Wilson will not throw it. Huard and Milan went throw every pass play last game and said Wilson made the correct read not throwing to JG when he did not.

 

[jblaze]

They've been trying to incorporate him. Via ProFootballTalk and the All-22, he had 9 plays last week where he was the first read and primary target. It just didn't work out and he wasn't open. Some of this is RW also.

One play in particular they called a cover 3 beater double move for Graham and GB called a cover 2 scheme which took it away when they had been playing cover 3 most of the day.

So far teams are still stacking the box to stop the run game so it will come but it's not going to be as seamless as everyone thought, these things take time and RW has never really had a #1 target before. Sometimes you just gotta throw them the ball regardless and he'll figure that out.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Jimmy will be in the game plan, without a doubt. But he's not going to be the focal point of our offense. That job still belongs to Marshawn.

Bevell, as has been pointed out on numerous occasions (don't really know why this post hasn't been locked since it's the same old rehash) is one part of the cog, along with Cable, position coaches, Pete and the players themselves. He's a stellar offensive coordinator who has produced results, so your question is an easy one to answer.

 

[jammerhawk]

Whatever Siouxhawk, you have been a consistent defender of Bevell and I expected your contribution. Sadly so far he hasn't demonstrated the ability to incorporate Graham into the O despite many promises seems to frequently underwhelm with some of his calls in terms of his use of Marshawn so the answer isn't as easy as you state.

Question to you is this criticism at all justified, or should he share the blame, or should we look to difficulties with pass protection, or some limitation RW has in seeing multiple reads.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

He wants to outsmart everybody. He wants all pro bowl WR's and TE's to distract so we can throw it to Ricardo Lockette or a bubble screen to Doug Baldwin.

Pssst, Russell's the one throwing the balls to those guys.

Most of those throws are per Bevell's instructions. There are no reads or pre-snap adjustments, Wilson just goes straight to the bubble screen.

My best take is that Bevell is trying to get defenses to cheat up close to stop the screens so they can open things up deep. In fact, much of Bevell's philosophy seems to be meant for that idea. It 's very Pete as well - "doesn't really matter how bad we are, as long as we get a 50-yard bomb at some point".

It leads to a very sloppy plan that leads to more punts than deep bomb opportunities, because those bubble screens still take up a down and make life hard for Wilson when they go for 1 or fewer yards.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Whatever Siouxhawk, you have been a consistent defender of Bevell and I expected your contribution. Sadly so far he hasn't demonstrated the ability to incorporate Graham into the O despite many promises seems to frequently underwhelm with some of his calls in terms of his use of Marshawn so the answer isn't as easy as you state.

Question to you is this criticism at all justified, or should he share the blame, or should we look to difficulties with pass protection, or some limitation RW has in seeing multiple reads.

Thanks for the opportunity to answer this jammerhawk,

First of all, I'm not one who takes on the witch hunt of assigning blame. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Fortunately we've won at a clip of about 70 percent of the time over the last 2 years. I don't see that changing this year. Those first two defense we played were pretty salty, especially in their road environment.

As far as Graham, I just people wish would relax instead of being infected like a bunch of rabid Walking Dead zombies trying to quench their bloodthirst by assigning blame. It's been 2 games! And those two road games could very well be the most difficult on our schedule. We're breaking in new personnel on the line, our defense is giving up way too many points and explosive plays (but Kam's return, I believe, will tone those thorns down). Panicking wouldn't be prudent.

As far as Bevell, of couse he's still growing, but I defend him because I just see how ridiculous all the attacks on him are. I'm not as eloquent as the DavidSevens and Sgt. Largents out there, but I totally agree with the points they make about the multiple layers our offense presents (ie., Pete's demand to win the turnover battle, meaning ball-control on offense; Russell's improv skills, Marshawn's brute-force running, using field position and a fourth-quarter uprising to seal most wins) and how Bevell has done a good job of blending all of that together.

Jimmy likely won't put up the kind of numbers he had in New Orleans. Our fans need to get used to that and quit thinking this team is run like their fantasy football squads. Jimmy still will play a vital role, though, especially in the red zone. Russell spent a good chunk of the offseason with him, but he's still adjusting as the bullets are flying. I'm all in!

 

[CalboHawk]

I wonder how much of the lack of targets to Graham is actually on Russell.

Based on snap counts and formations it seems like Bevell is trying to get Graham into the flow of the game but for various reasons Russell is opting to go in other directions.

 

[bjornanderson21]

If anyone can screw it up, it's Bevell. I think he is truly a moron.

If Bevell can't successfully incorporate Graham into the offense then it is his job to make Graham the best decoy in NFL history. Make the opponent pay here and there when they stop respecting Graham as a decoy. But the only way to make that actually work is to make our lesser players Pro-Bowl caliber.

If Graham can't put up numbers and our other guys don't have career years then there is no doubt that Bevell is a failure.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Whatever Siouxhawk, you have been a consistent defender of Bevell and I expected your contribution. Sadly so far he hasn't demonstrated the ability to incorporate Graham into the O despite many promises seems to frequently underwhelm with some of his calls in terms of his use of Marshawn so the answer isn't as easy as you state.

Question to you is this criticism at all justified, or should he share the blame, or should we look to difficulties with pass protection, or some limitation RW has in seeing multiple reads.

Thanks for the opportunity to answer this jammerhawk,

First of all, I'm not one who takes on the witch hunt of assigning blame. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Fortunately we've won at a clip of about 70 percent of the time over the last 2 years. I don't see that changing this year. Those first two defense we played were pretty salty, especially in their road environment.

As far as Graham, I just people wish would relax instead of being infected like a bunch of rabid Walking Dead zombies trying to quench their bloodthirst by assigning blame. It's been 2 games! And those two road games could very well be the most difficult on our schedule. We're breaking in new personnel on the line, our defense is giving up way too many points and explosive plays (but Kam's return, I believe, will tone those thorns down). Panicking wouldn't be prudent.

As far as Bevell, of couse he's still growing, but I defend him because I just see how ridiculous all the attacks on him are. I'm not as eloquent as the DavidSevens and Sgt. Largents out there, but I totally agree with the points they make about the multiple layers our offense presents (ie., Pete's demand to win the turnover battle, meaning ball-control on offense; Russell's improv skills, Marshawn's brute-force running, using field position and a fourth-quarter uprising to seal most wins) and how Bevell has done a good job of blending all of that together.

Jimmy likely won't put up the kind of numbers he had in New Orleans. Our fans need to get used to that and quit thinking this team is run like their fantasy football squads. Jimmy still will play a vital role, though, especially in the red zone. Russell spent a good chunk of the offseason with him, but he's still adjusting as the bullets are flying. I'm all in!

The spreading the ball around philosophy has to be adjusted when you have a star and instant matchup problem like Graham.

What is the point of getting Graham if our TEs only combine for 200-300 extra yards compared to last years group?

Forget about spreading the ball around evenly, use our weapon since we FINALLY HAVE ONE.

We can add 200-300 yards to our TE group for much less than a 1st round pick and the large salary we're paying him.

 

[Hawks46]

I don't think many of us are privy to the information we need to decipher whether or not it's all on Bevell. I mean, it IS his job and he needs to fix the offense, but he can't control execution.

Wilson needs to learn what an open receiver in the NFL looks like. That throw on Thurs night to Beckam from Manning.....Wilson many times won't even take that throw. Well, unless it's Kearse.

I also have a hard time believing an OC would tell a QB he can and can't make certain throws. Telling him not to change the play, even when it looks like the defense has the correct call out and will stop your play. I know Wilson hasn't had the lattitude to audible a lot and this year was supposed to be doing it more. If so, we're going to see some growing pains and Wilson learns this facet of the offense.

My problem is that we'll run right into a run blitz, just to run the play. I don't get it, you can see the run blitz, then run right into it. We'll see blitzes and 3 receivers go out and no one runs a hot route. If this is on Wilson, than Bevell needs to figure it out and help Wilson fix it, to the best of his abilities. No one was bitching about the offense in 2013. It's the same OC. Hell, it's the exact same offense.

 

[TheHawkster]

I see Bevell implementing Jimmy during the season like he calls a game.

He'll go extremely conservative early in the year.
Implement the base plays that work in the middle of the year.
And then finally, late in the season, when everyone is at a panic....
The full Jimmy zone read offense will show up and they terrorize defenses at crunch time.