The Hawks D vs. the Top 8 D: Asset Expenditure

BobbySwagner

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This is the most critical draft in Seahawks history since 2012, or maybe ever to put it lightly. Flubbing this draft will lead to a long, long, road back to contention. They cannot fail, or heads will roll.
What in your eyes can the Seahawks do this off season if they’re smart (position coaches, scheme changes, draft, free agents) to flip the script and get out of this hole?

(Seriously enjoying everything you’ve written out, thanks for taking the time)
 

Ozzy

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This is why I prefaced my post with I'm not going to defend our defensive draft picks.

But how much better would our defense be if we had another 4-5 top 15 picks over the past decade like these other franchises have had?

My guess is quite a bit better. That's my point.
And its a good one. I'm not convinced they would've taken advantage of them but regardless to be fair you have to assume a couple at least would produce impact players.
 

morgulon1

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Sure that's fair but any way you cut it they've been terrible with their high leverage (1-2nd round picks) over the years often making picks that have other gm's commenting off the record how baffled they were for taking those guys. The Athletic had an article that used a dozen different metrics that factors in all of the usual arguments and Seattle came out bad almost across the board. Even when factoring in how hard drafting can be they're still below average the past few years.

Now I'm still skeptical but hopeful after this most recent class. My theory is Pete was way too involved and caused a lot of the goofy picks after some scout leaks came to light. To give Pete credit I think he gave up some control over personnel and let John have a little more freedom which again Pete deserves credit for if he did. I could be way off base but that's how I see it. Every team is going to have multiple misses every year, even the best drafting teams but Seattle needs to continue their success from this previous draft and like Fade said this draft is critical.
I had always had a theory that Pete was
Involved too much in the drafts. Coaches should coach and let the experts pick the players. IMHO
That's how they ended up with Eskridge
Who probably would've went late if at all.
My question is who ultimately was responsible for giving up all the picks and players for Jamal Adams.
If Seattle doesn't turn the corner from this draft , the Pete Carroll era will come to an end more than likely.
I have another theory, I think PC/JS don't have a very long leash like some people think. I couldn't back this up with any kind of evidence. Bad drafts , bad trades
and this team has never really threatened to win a SB since 2013.
Yeah,I know Seattle was "good" enough to go to the post season , yet I think we all knew they didn't have "it" like 2011-2013. I blame PC/JS . To be able to "win forever" , you have to manage the cap, make the tough decisions or you wind up with a bloated crap sandwich of a roster. The best move they've made in the last 5 years is unloading #3.

I wish them all the luck .
 

morgulon1

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What in your eyes can the Seahawks do this off season if they’re smart (position coaches, scheme changes, draft, free agents) to flip the script and get out of this hole?

(Seriously enjoying everything you’ve written out, thanks for taking the time)
I know you asked Fade but wanted to respond with you. I'm guessing he'd say to fire Pete...maybe Schneider.

Just for fun :

* Make sure Schneider makes the picks
And does any FA signings or trades. PC stays out of it.

* Go interior defensive line. Not cheap free agents . The middle of the defense dictates everything , or it should. Teams
Are NOT afraid of Seattle and play them exactly how Pete wishes Seattle could play.

* Bulk up the offensive line. Aquire another RB to pair with Walker III. Seattle has trouble having a RB make it through the year. They don't make em like Marshawn Lynch anymore. Does anyone want to see us trying to make a run in the playoffs with Travis Homer ? Which brings me to the next point:

* Decide what and who they want on defense and move on from underachievers whether it's effort or injury. It doesn't matter where they were picked. This includes moving on from Hurtt. I see a Ken Norton Jr part 2. Get a proven coordinator or Pete could just take it back over and own it.

* What is going to happen with Geno Smith? Is he going to demand the big bag? I would bet he's going to expect some real money and he's played well enough to get it. What I mean is he's a bad ass QB and I would like him to stay
A hell of a lot more than Seattle using a high pick on one . He can get it done.

* Get rid of those shit lime greenish/yellowish uniforms and apologize for ever wearing them
 

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Here it is the thread you've all been waiting for!

I present to you the top 8 defenses in the NFL, and the assets they expended to build said top 8 defense through 13 games. While seeing how the Seahawks stack up. Why not Top 10? It got too muddy, there is a clear top 8, and after that 5+ plus teams could be argued for the final 2 spots. Top 8 also conveniently = Top 25%.

Rich Hill Valuation Model 2023 Draft Value Chart used to determine points for each pick. Factored in trade ups.

=================
49ERS
1ST (Yards), 1st (Points)
=================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$9.5M APY, Jimmie Ward (S)
$8.3M APY, Nick Bosa (Edge)
$17M APY, Arik Armstead (DL)
$6M APY, Samson Ebukan (Edge)
$19M APY, Fred Warner (LB)
$13.5M APY, Charvarious Ward (CB)
$8.2M APY, Dre Greenlaw (LB)
-------
Total Players: 7
Total APY in major investments = $81.5M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd'18, 70 pts. Fred Warner
3rd'18, 40 pts. Tarvarious Moore
1st '19, 717 pts. Nick Bosa
1st'20, 325 pts. Javon Kinlaw
3rd'21, 35 pts. Ambry Thomas
2nd'22, 86 pts. Drake Jackson
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (2), 2nd (1), 3rd (3), 6 picks. 1273 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: I was expecting a lot more investment with the #1 Defense. Bosa hasn't gotten paid yet, but they don't have a lot of picks invested. Only two 1sts, and one 2nd in the last 5 years.

=================
EAGLES
2nd (Yards), 7th (Points)
=================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$13M APY, Javon Hargrave (DL)
$16.7M APY, Darius Slay (CB)
$9.25M APY, Brandon Graham (Edge)
$14M APY, Fletcher Cox (DL)
$15M APY, Haasan Reddick (Edge)
$13.33M APY, Josh Sweat (Edge)
$7M APY, Derek Barnett (Edge)
$7.5M APY, Avonte Maddox (CB)
$7.25M APY, James Bradberry (CB)
-------
Total Players: 9
Total APY in major investments = $103.03M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd'18 - 39 pts. Ronald Darby (Trade: Spent #96.)
'19 - None (All Offense)
3rd'20, 35 pts. Davion Taylor
3rd'21, 65 pts. Milton Williams 139
1st'22, 355 pts. Jordan Davis (Traded up: #15 + #124 + #162 + #166)
3rd'22 52 pts. Nakobe Dean
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (1), 2nd (0), 3rd (4), 5 picks. 546 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: The Eagle have $64M in dead money on their cap, and by far the least amount of draft capitol invested into their defense. So how the hell are they doing this? Voidable years. Nearly all of their paid guys have voidable years attached to keep their cap numbers down. They are also smart and the complete opposite of the Seahawks when it comes to spending. Pash Rushers and guys who can cover. Those are the only guys getting paid on Philly's defense. Smart.

================
JETS
3rd (Yards), 6th (Points)
================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$15M APY, Carl Lawson (Edge)
$14.5M APY, John Franklin-Meyers (Edge)
$8.13M APY, Quinnen Williams (DL)
$5.5M APY, Sheldon Rankins (DL)
$8.3M APY, Sauce Gardner (CB)
$17M APY, C.J. Mosely (LB)
$11M APY, D.J. Reed (CB)
$7.25M APY, Jordan Whitehead (S)
-------
Total Players: 8
Total APY in major investments = $86.68M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd'18, 67 pts. Nathan Sheppard
1st'19, 514 pts. Quinnen Williams
3rd'19, 73 pts. Jachai Polite
3rd'20, 73 pts. Ashtyn Davis
3rd'20, 57 pts. Jabari Zuniga
'21 - None (All Offense)
1st'22, 491 pts. Sauce Gardner
2nd+3rd'22, 250 pts. Jermaine Johnson II (Traded up: #35 + #69 + #163)
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (2), 2nd (1), 3rd (5), 8 picks. 1525 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: The Jets are actually what a young defense is supposed to look like. Unlike the Seahawks who get stereotyped as young because they suck, so that must mean they are young. Their only old man regular is 30 year old C.J. Mosley, and he will likely be cut or a massive paycut at the very least, after the season. 2nd most draft capital spent which will happen when you draft defense in the top 5 twice. As they are the only ones in the top 8 to do so. 1k points between those 2 players alone.

================
COMMANDERS
4th (Yards), 10th (Points)
================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$10M APY, Kendal Fuller (CB)
$18M APY, Jonathan Allen (DL)
$8.6M APY, Chase Young (Edge)
$5M APY, Bobby McCain (S)
$8.5M APY, Da'Ron Payne (DL) (5th yr Option)
-------
Total Players: 4
Total APY in major investments = $50.1M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1st'18, 336 pts. Da'Ron Payne
2nd'19+2nd'20, 263 pts. Montez Sweat Trade Up (#46 + '20 2nd = #44)
1st'20, 717 pts. Chase Young
1st'21, 278 pts. Jamin Davis
3rd'21, 64 pts. Benjamin St-Juste
2nd'22 124 pts. Phidarian Mathis
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (3), 2nd (3), 3rd (1), 7 picks. 1782 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: The Commanders have the most draft capitol spent in the last 5 years despite only taking 6 players in that span. They are not spending a lot of money on defense, but they have a few 1st round D-Lineman due for new contracts soon. So that will change drastically in the next couple of years.

================
COWBOYS
5th (Yards), 3rd (Points)
================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$13.33M APY, Demarcus Lawrence (Edge)
$5M APY, Jayron Kearse (S)
$6M APY, Dorance Armstrong Jr. (DL)
$5.166M APY, Anthony Brown (CB)

-------
Total Players: 4
Total APY in major investments = $29.496M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1st'18, 278 pts. Leighton Vander Esch
2nd'19, 93 pts. Trysten Hill
2nd'20, 112 pts. Trevon Diggs
3rd'20, 54 pts. Neville Gallimore
1st'21, 347 pts. Micah Parsons (Dan Quinn '21, fix the Defense.)
2nd'21, 135 pts. Kelvin Joseph
3rd'21, 63 pts. Osa Odighizuwa
3rd'21, 51 pts. Chauncey Golsten
3rd'21, 37 pts. Nahshon Wright
2nd'22 98 pts. Sam Williams
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (2), 2nd (4), 3rd (4), 10 picks. 1268 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: Jerry is spending his money on offense, while he gave the great Dan Quinn the '21 draft to rebuild, which was at the time one of the worst defenses in the NFL. Dan Quinn turned it around immediately and now has them top 5 in the league with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks, and Micah Parsons of course. Dallas has spent the 2nd most picks of the top 8 with a whopping 10 in 5 years with half of those coming in '21 alone.

================
PATRIOTS
6th (Yards), 5th (Points)
================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$13.625M APY, Matt Judon (Edge)
$10.4M APY, Davon Godcahaux (DL)
$7M APY, Jonathan Jones (CB)
$6M APY, Jalen Mills (CB)
$9M APY, Devin McCourty (S)
$5.5M APY, Deatrich Wise (Edge)
-------
Total Players: 6
Total APY in major investments = $51.525M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd'18, 109 pts. Duke Dawson (Traded up #63 + #117)
2nd+3rd'19, 134 pts. Joejuan Williams (Traded up #56 + #101)
3rd'19, 60 pts. Chase Winovich
2nd'20, 162 pts. Kyle Dugger
3rd+3rd'20, 85 pts. Josh Uche (Traded up #71 + #98 - #129)
3rd'20, 48 pts. Anfernee Jennings
2nd'21, 151 pts. Christian Barmore (Traded up #46 + #122 + #139)
3rd'21, 39 pts. Ronnie Perkins
3rd'22, 50 pts. Marcus Jones
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (0), 2nd (4), 3rd (7), 11 picks. 838 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: Nickel & Dime Bill. He shutters at having to pay big money to Free Agents and goes for the quantity over quality approach, similar to Pete. But unlike Pete, Bill can coach them up, turning them into a top 5 unit. Also taking the same approach in the draft with 11 selections, most amongst the top 8 defenses, but also 2nd least in draft capitol spent. Zero 1st rounders taken. That frugal SOB.


================
BRONCOS
7th (Yards), 4th (Points)
================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$15.2M APY, Justin Simmons (S)
$5.2M APY, Patrick Surtain II (CB)
$10M APY, D.J. Jones (DL)
$5.5M APY, Josey Jewell (LB)
$13.9M APY, Randy Gregory (Edge)
$10M APY, Ronald Darby (CB)
-------
Total Players: 6
Total APY in major investments = $59.8M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1st'18, 468 pts. Bradley Chubb
3rd'18, 37 pts. Isaac Yiadom
3rd'19, 68 pts. Dre'Mont Jones
3rd'20, 60 pts. Michael Ojemudia
1st'21, 387 pts. Patrick Surtain II
2nd'22 80 pts. Nik Bonitto
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (2), 2nd (1), 3rd (3), 6 picks. 1100 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

# Notes: Denver is the most injured team in the NFL, yet it hasn't stopped their defense from playing amazing week in and week out. The offense not so much.
It is impressive to see how little they've invested draft wise into the defense. Chubb is gone so that just leaves Surtain II as the only significant draft invest in the last 5 years on defense.

================
BILLS
9th (Yards), 2nd (Points)
================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$20M APY, Von Miller (Edge)
$17.25M APY, Tra'Davious White (CB)
$12.66M APY, Tremaine Edmunds (LB) [5th yr. Option]
$9.75M APY, Jordan Poyer (S)
$9.625M APY, Micah Hyde (S)
$10.375M APY, Matt Milano (LB)
$8M APY, Taron Johnson (CB)
$7M APY, DaQuan Jones (DL)
$5M APY, Jordan Phillips (DL)
-------
Total Players: 9
Total APY in major investments = $99.66M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1st'18, 318 pts. Tremaine Edmunds (Traded up #22 + #65 - #154)
3rd'18, 39 pts. Harrison Phillips
1st'19, 387 pts. Ed Oliver
2nd'20, 104 pts. A.J. Epenesa
1st'21, 196 pts. Gregory Rousseau
2nd'21, 86 pts. Carlos Basham Jr.
1st'22, 251 pts. Kaiir Elam (Traded up: #25 + #130)
3rd'22, 46 pts. Terrel Bernard
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (4), 2nd (2), 3rd (2), 8 picks. 1427 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

#Notes: You can't pay your QB, and the defense or so they say. Yet here the Bills are paying Josh Allen $43M APY, and handing out mega dollars to 9 players on defense.

==================
SEAHAWKS
28th (Yards), 30th (Points)
==================

$5M+ (APY) players:
-----------------------
$17.5M APY, Jamal Adams (S)
$6.172M APY, Poona Ford (DL)
$9.527M APY, Uchenna Nwosu (Edge)
$13M APY, Quandre Diggs (S)
$9M APY, Shelby Harris (DL)
$5.517M APY, Bryan Mone (DL)
-------
Total Players: 6
Total APY in major investments = $60.72M APY

First 3 Rounds Defense the Last 5 years (Expected Starters.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3rd'18, 57 pts. Rasheem Green
1st'19, 203 pts. L.J. Collier
2nd'19, 124 pts. Marquise Blair
3rd'19, 51 pts. Cody Barton (Traded up #92 + #159 - #209)
1st'20, 216 pts. Jordyn Brooks
2nd+3rd'20, 127 pts. Darrell Taylor (Traded up #59 + #101)
1st+3rd'21+1st'22, 631 pts Jamal Adams (Trade: #23 + #86 + '22 #10 - '22 #109)
2nd'22, 149 pts. Boye Mafe
-----------------------------------------
Totals: 1st (4), 2nd (3), 3rd (4), 11 picks. 1558 pts of Draft Capitol spent.

Notes: Al Woods and Quinton Jefferson just came in under the threshold of $5M APY. Only 1 of the top 8 teams have expunged more draft capital than the Seahawks who have also spent more picks than any of these teams at 11. They spend their money foolishly on a bunch of runstuffers, but can't stop the run. Nwosu looks like the only one worth his money. Jamal Adams is a real albatross from his contract to the draft picks given up. A fireable offense.

If the Seahawks spend a top 5 pick on a defensive player, they will be ahead of all of these teams by a country mile on draft capitol spent. As they curently reside at 2nd out of these 9 teams. They could potentially spend 1500 points of draft capital in 2023 alone on defense in the first 3 rounds quite easily putting them at over 3,000 in the last 5 years! (Cycle out '18, add '23) Helluva job. The Seahawks have an asset expenditure with the purpose of building a top 5 defense, while falling so well short of the mark it makes you wonder…

Rankings in Major $$$ Defensive Player Investment:
------
1) EAGLES $103.03M APY
2) BILLS $99.66M APY
3) JETS $86.68M APY
4) 49ERS $81.5M APY

--> SEAHAWKS $60.72M APY <----- Are Here

5) BRONCOS$59.8M APY
6) PATRIOTS $51.525M APY
7) COMMANDERS $50.1M APY
8) COWBOYS $29.496M APY


Rankings in Major Draft Capitol Investment for Defensive Players Since 2018:
------
1) COMMANDERS 1782 pts.

--> SEAHAWKS 1558 pts. <----- Are Here

2) JETS 1525 pts.
3) BILLS 1427 pts
4) 49ERS 1273 pts
5) COWBOYS 1268 pts
6) BRONCOS 1100 pts
7) PATRIOTS 838 pts
8) EAGLES 546 pts

To say the Seahawks have drafted and invested poorly on defense since 2018 is the understatement of the century.
Nice, but Jesus Christ, you must a lot of time on your hands lol.
 
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What in your eyes can the Seahawks do this off season if they’re smart (position coaches, scheme changes, draft, free agents) to flip the script and get out of this hole?

(Seriously enjoying everything you’ve written out, thanks for taking the time)
An overlysimplified answer is all I can give at this juncture as I do not study prospects for the draft until after the season. Same for Free Agency as we actually don't know who will truly be available. Geno's an upcoming Free Agent as an example, but he isn't going anywhere. The same applies to the other teams as well.

A big off-season write up will happen from me in late JAN or FEB. But for now…

1) Get out of JS' way. The more personnel power given, the better the results seem to be. It's been leaked by the media and insiders that Pete Carroll, Al Davis'd a lot of drafts over the years and last year JS was given full control of the draft in '22.

2a) Hire Dan Quinn, Pete retires, moves to an executive position, or is fired. I don't really care, but get him out of the way as the defense will never truly be fixed given Pete's insistence to still implement his principles over the top of whatever new scheme they are trying to execute. This Fangio/Carroll mix is oil & water, and will never work. If Quinn or someone like that is hired, go ahead and rebuild the defense with this draft, spending all of the day 1 & 2 picks on the defense w/1 O-Lineman in there somewhere.

2b) Rebuild the defense through Free Agency + the top 5 pick, if Pete stays. I don't want any excuses about being "young" as they continue to flounder year after year. Sign veterans you know fit the scheme, so we can properly eval the defensive coaching staff w/Pete. Spend the rest of the 1st and 2nd rounders on offense, where the Hawks have a consistent track record of drafting well early in the draft.

What they cannot afford to do is give Hurtt/Carroll all of this draft capitol and let them screw it up. In that scenario they will not recover for a very long time.
 
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This is why I prefaced my post with I'm not going to defend our defensive draft picks.

But how much better would our defense be if we had another 4-5 top 15 picks over the past decade like these other franchises have had?

My guess is quite a bit better. That's my point.

How much better? Not much. They struggle to scheme / develop, and put players in position to be successful no matter who it is on defense these days.

The LOB defense wasn't built with a bunch of 1st rd picks.

5th rd | Sherm
5th rd | Kam
5th rd (trade) | Clemons (originally Undrafted)
2nd rd | Mebane
Undrafted / CFL | Browner
2nd rd | Wagner
4th rd | Wright
Free Agent | Bennett (originally Undrafted)
Free Agent | Avril (originally a 3rd rounder)
4th rd | Thurmond
7th rd | Malcolm Smith
4th rd | Red Bryant
Free Agent | Tony McDaniel (originally Undrafted)
6th rd | Jeremy Lane
6th rd | Maxwell
7th rd (trade) | Clint McDonald (originally a 7th rounder)

Earl and Bruce are the only ones.

In terms of draft capital spent (which factors in draft position.) The Seahawks are spending like crazy on defense compared to the other teams. You have to draft quality starting players in the first 3 rounds of the NFL draft consistently, or you've failed as an organization. Period. This isn't the NBA where you need to tank and draft high to build a winner. The Lions and the expansion Browns would be GOAT'd if that were the case.

No. The teams that draft well throughout the entire draft are the ones that go on to become winners. Stop with the excuses. If the Seahawks could draft as well in the 2nd rd as they used to find Undrafted players they would be golden.
 

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No. The teams that draft well throughout the entire draft are the ones that go on to become winners. Stop with the excuses. If the Seahawks could draft as well in the 2nd rd as they used to find Undrafted players they would be golden.

How am I making excuses when the Hawk's picks aren't an outlier with the hit rate with most franchises high picks.

Look at the Niners picks in the same years you're criticizing Pete and John for our picks, with MANY more high picks.

2014
Jimmie Ward - Missed almost half the season, average S
Carlos Hyde - Out of football

2015
Arik Armstead - one good year in 2019, has missed more games than played since
Jasquiski Tartt - Underperformed, got cut and didn't even play this year

2016
Deforest Buckner - wasn't even offered a 2nd contract, plays for Colts now
Joshua Garnett - out of football

2017
Solomon Thomas - Cut and is now playing for Jets
Rueben Foster - Out of football since 2020

2018
Mike McGlinchey - servicable tackle, no Pro Bowls or post season honors
Dante Pettis - cut by two teams in four years, backup in Chicago

2019
Nick Bosa - Took us this long to get to a great high pick draft
Deebo Samuel - stud

2020
Javon Kinlaw - 1.5 sacks in three years
Brandon Ayuk - Ok, not a superstar

2021
Trey Lance - makes the Jamal Adams trade look like an amazing front office move
Aaron Banks - servicable starter



So what's the hit rate on the amazing Niner draft classes everyone points to when criticizing Pete and John? 20%? 30% tops?

No different than us, or any franchise for that matter. Enough already with your lame tired dead horse Pete bashing.
 

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Here it is the thread you've all been waiting for!

I present to you the top 8 defenses in the NFL, and the assets they expended to build said top 8 defense through 13 games. While seeing how the Seahawks stack up. Why not Top 10? It got too muddy, there is a clear top 8, and after that 5+ plus teams could be argued for the final 2 spots. Top 8 also conveniently = Top 25%.
I can make statistics say what ever I want them to say to support the argument I am trying to make.

Like the media, all you need to do is put in the info that supports your position and leave out info that doesn't.

Crap in crap out, selective stats in selective stats out!!!!
 

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Wow, you guys did some incredible homework! Good discussion! I hope you don't mind if I share this with a couple of friends. I promise that I won't plagiarize it and claim it as my own.
 
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Wow, you guys did some incredible homework! Good discussion! I hope you don't mind if I share this with a couple of friends. I promise that I won't plagiarize it and claim it as my own.
Okay...
 
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I can make statistics say what ever I want them to say to support the argument I am trying to make.

Like the media, all you need to do is put in the info that supports your position and leave out info that doesn't.

Crap in crap out, selective stats in selective stats out!!!!
Do you think the Seahawks have drafted well on defense these last 5 seasons? What are your favorite selections on Day 1 and 2 of the draft where you're expected to take starters?

Do you think the Jamal Adams trade was a good move at the time?

Do you think Pete has constructed this defense well over the last 5 years?

Do you like the coaches, particularly the DCs Pete has hired over these last 5 seasons?

There is nothing selective about it. The Seahawks have done a poor job drafting, coaching, building, on defense for a long time no matter how you slice it.
 

Hockey Guy

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If they don't nail this draft on the defensive side & set themselves up for success for the next several years Pete & maybe even John will be gone by popular demand.

We all had lowered expectations this year so our playoffs felt like a bonus but there are going to be real expectations next year & they had better fix this defense with that much draft capital. We need a few game wreckers or this is a total failure.
 
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If they don't nail this draft on the defensive side & set themselves up for success for the next several years Pete & maybe even John will be gone by popular demand.

We all had lowered expectations this year so our playoffs felt like a bonus but there are going to be real expectations next year & they had better fix this defense with that much draft capital. We need a few game wreckers or this is a total failure.

I have zero confidence listening to Pete's recent presser. It looks like Hurtt is back, and the trainwreck is going to be allowed to continue on defense.

I think John is ultimately safe. John is only getting the players Pete wants for his defense. It's not his fault Pete can no longer build a defense to save his life. What is sad, is Pete continuing to get mulligan after mulligan. This is like the 4th time post LOB he's tried/trying to rebuild the defense.

My lowered expectations went out the window, once Geno showed he was a Pro-Bowler. The lowered expectations was predicated upon them having no one at QB.

It's wierd how everyone thought the defense was going to be the strength of the team going into the season, and then they all got amnesia and pointed at the record, when the defense was a dumpster once again.
 

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...It's wierd how everyone thought the defense was going to be the strength of the team going into the season, and then they all got amnesia and pointed at the record, when the defense was a dumpster once again.
I've heard and believed that the Defense will be better "next year" every year for 5 years running.

I am hearing it again but I no longer believe. I don't believe this Defense will ever be fixed while PC is HC.

The sad part is, I believe we'll see another off-season of roster/cap mismanagement leading to little or no real improvement, and after yet another wildcard playoff exit the vast majority of the people here will still be saying and believing in "next year".
 

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Adams wasn't necessarily a bad move, the big screwover came when he turned into a chronically injured player right after he signed a big contract. His coverage skills are part of the package, but that's not what we got him for. He had an incredible sack on Wilson the play he got injured on.
 
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Adams wasn't necessarily a bad move, the big screwover came when he turned into a chronically injured player right after he signed a big contract. His coverage skills are part of the package, but that's not what we got him for. He had an incredible sack on Wilson the play he got injured on.
It was a terrible move. Even had he stayed healthy, they paid the price of a franchise Pass Rusher, for a Safety. The Seahawks will never do something so stupid ever again.
 
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I've heard and believed that the Defense will be better "next year" every year for 5 years running.

I am hearing it again but I no longer believe. I don't believe this Defense will ever be fixed while PC is HC.

The sad part is, I believe we'll see another off-season of roster/cap mismanagement leading to little or no real improvement, and after yet another wildcard playoff exit the vast majority of the people here will still be saying and believing in "next year".
Welcome to my world for going on 3 years. Ignorance is bliss. They don't wanna know, everything is fine. They'll blame the QB's salary, not the terrible moves and coaching decisions, once they very predictably underachieve.

As of now, I don't think they make the wildcard next year. I will have to wait and see what they do this off-season in total to make that determination, of course. But keeping the defensive coaching staff intact is a HUGE red flag. Seattle only made the playoffs this year because the Rams & Cardinals fell off a cliff, while Geno played at a level no one could've predicted.

That's what it took for them to barely make the playoffs this year. They have to substantially improve if they want to make the playoffs next year, while playing a much tougher schedule.
 

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Bump I originally missed this post. Some great information.

We overpaid for BWagz, Jamal and Quandre. They're all great players sure, but it seems like whoever is making the final decision is not getting tough enough on the players. Might be Pete being sentimental.

I hope we NEVER trade any 1st round picks for a player EVER AGAIN! It's busted EVERY SINGLE TIME!

Sorry about the caps, sore subject for me. Major reason why our draft investment registers so high but has had so little return.

Multiple draft experts have said there are about 20 players in every draft with a 1st round grade. That is no reason to devalue our 1st round pick and trade it away for a random 4th round pick that won't make the team, and pass up on a player like TJ Watt (30th overall, or my biggest pet peeve, Geno Atkins who kicked ass at the Senior Bowl).
 
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