Let's be honest about Russell Wilson

LTH

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Sgt. Largent":pden12r7 said:
Yep, and what we're starting to hear out of Russell and his camp is far more "me me me" and far less "team team team."

Russell's still a great QB, a top 5-10 QB. But good teams and good defenses have figured him out, play two high and take the explosive plays away.......because they know Russell doesn't even look for the 5-7 yard quick outs/slants/hooks unless he needs a 1st down.

It's why we're seeing so many frustrating lots of time but no one's open type of scrambles out of Russell now. He needs to take those quick first option short passes and get the run game going to suck those two safeties down.

But he doesn't. Or he won't.


I think he will make that adjustment.. he is just a young man proving his worth. I think he believes that he can have both worlds and he is trying to create that...he is a incredibly talented player and its is up to Pete to find a way to get him to find that balance either that or he learns the hard way which is going to impede his progress to becoming the best QB of all time but sometimes the hard way is the only way young men learn... hopefully there is some competition with Geno this is a great scenario...


LTH
 

chris98251

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LTH":2v6sfw4c said:
Sgt. Largent":2v6sfw4c said:
Yep, and what we're starting to hear out of Russell and his camp is far more "me me me" and far less "team team team."

Russell's still a great QB, a top 5-10 QB. But good teams and good defenses have figured him out, play two high and take the explosive plays away.......because they know Russell doesn't even look for the 5-7 yard quick outs/slants/hooks unless he needs a 1st down.

It's why we're seeing so many frustrating lots of time but no one's open type of scrambles out of Russell now. He needs to take those quick first option short passes and get the run game going to suck those two safeties down.

But he doesn't. Or he won't.


I think he will make that adjustment.. he is just a young man proving his worth. I think he believes that he can have both worlds and he is trying to create that...he is a incredibly talented player and its is up to Pete to find a way to get him to find that balance either that or he learns the hard way which is going to impede his progress to becoming the best QB of all time but sometimes the hard way is the only way young men learn... hopefully there is some competition with Geno this is a great scenario...


LTH

Needs to learn the word Omaha and point all over before snaps :)
 

keasley45

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John63":28lvfqof said:
BamKam":28lvfqof said:
It is just time to move on if the price is right is my opinion. Russ has been great and fun to watch, but we have been trying to tailor EVERYTHING to him for the last few seasons and the same stuff happens over and over. Holding onto the ball for 10 seconds to give up a 15-20 yard sack. Bad play clock management. Relying on 60 yard playground football plays to get the offense going. Unable to consistently sustain drives causing to gas the defense with constant 3 and outs. Then we throw the O Line or Offensive Coordinator under the bus (even ones who Russ hand picked).

It was refreshing to watch Geno hit receivers in their routes consistently in the 2 drives we scored. I am NOT saying Geno is better than Russ and if Russ was healthy obviously would want him in but it was a definite eye opener. O Line looked more solid since Russ wasn't spinning out of the pocket after 2 seconds. Receivers looked more consistent. I am just tired of relying on playground football.


right and the fact the rams went prevent on defense had nothing to do with it at all. As to the rest if you are really watching the games or have been fooling the threads you would know Wilson is not rallying on playground ball all the time only when he has to. You would know Geno tried it a couple of times too when he was flushed. you would know Wilson is hitting wr.


Where did it say the OC was handpicked by Wilson? All Wilson did was say ok.

Geno completed 59% of his passes, Wilson 70% so I think you might want to rewatch.


Also, FYI in one of the threads was the time to throw of all 3 qbs in the rams game, theirs and ours, Gues who had the lowest time to throw? Wilson meaning he was getting rid of the ball the quickest.

It amazes me how people only see or believe what they want.

They didn't go prevent. Where do you get this from?They stopped rushing 5 and went with 4. Why? Because the way you beat Russ is by getting him of his spot right away because defenses pretty much know a quick throw won't be coming and that if he beats you (and he often does) its because he buys time.

Guaranteed that most D coordinators know who Geno is and that he built his career on getting the ball out quickly. So rushing 5 against him woukd have been a liability because of the threat he poses at making the quick read and completion.

Jesus. Our backup looks good and the first thing people do is say ' yeah he looked good because the defense wasn't trying '. Wonder how some would have tried to spin it had Lockett not fallen and we cap the last drive with a game winning TD.

They all wear the blue and green.
 

John63

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Sgt. Largent":26w7ejzr said:
Yep, and what we're starting to hear out of Russell and his camp is far more "me me me" and far less "team team team."

Russell's still a great QB, a top 5-10 QB. But good teams and good defenses have figured him out, play two high and take the explosive plays away.......because they know Russell doesn't even look for the 5-7 yard quick outs/slants/hooks unless he needs a 1st down.

It's why we're seeing so many frustrating lots of time but no one's open type of scrambles out of Russell now. He needs to take those quick first option short passes and get the run game going to suck those two safeties down.

But he doesn't. Or he won't.


Hmm is that why he is practicing? is that why he is getting raved reviews from players and coaches about the help he is being to Geno. Seems a "me" player would not do that.
 

chris98251

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John63":239q43pg said:
Sgt. Largent":239q43pg said:
Yep, and what we're starting to hear out of Russell and his camp is far more "me me me" and far less "team team team."

Russell's still a great QB, a top 5-10 QB. But good teams and good defenses have figured him out, play two high and take the explosive plays away.......because they know Russell doesn't even look for the 5-7 yard quick outs/slants/hooks unless he needs a 1st down.

It's why we're seeing so many frustrating lots of time but no one's open type of scrambles out of Russell now. He needs to take those quick first option short passes and get the run game going to suck those two safeties down.

But he doesn't. Or he won't.


Hmm is that why he is practicing? is that why he is getting raved reviews from players and coaches about the help he is being to Geno. Seems a "me" player would not do that.


Well if he is throwing left handed then he must be helping the defense practice interceptions for Rapistburgers lame duck passes. At least the defense can say they worked on it.
 

IndyHawk

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Sgt. Largent":5gnxhmhj said:
SoulfishHawk":5gnxhmhj said:
It's a good point :mrgreen:

That I think Geno is Joe Montana?

No, it's a terrible point. Inaccurate, exaggerated and lazily passive aggressive.

This forum has a lot of age old narratives that just aren't true, and one of the big ones is OMG Russell would be so amazing on another team.

Take your pick of teams, and Russell would still hold onto the ball and get hit a lot looking to make the big plays downfield, has very little to do with protection and the O-line.

It's ingrained in his football DNA. That's they style of QB he is, for better or worse. Most of the time it's for the better, but that better is diminishing with each and every year his legs and body fail him more and more.
I remember a guy on here who saw this coming-A few agreed but so many refused reality.. :lol:
I've said all I needed over n over and I'm not going route 63.
I'm fine with RW and PC going out together.It's time for new era.
 

OrangeGravy

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LTH":1l84vmb4 said:
Sgt. Largent":1l84vmb4 said:
Yep, and what we're starting to hear out of Russell and his camp is far more "me me me" and far less "team team team."

Russell's still a great QB, a top 5-10 QB. But good teams and good defenses have figured him out, play two high and take the explosive plays away.......because they know Russell doesn't even look for the 5-7 yard quick outs/slants/hooks unless he needs a 1st down.

It's why we're seeing so many frustrating lots of time but no one's open type of scrambles out of Russell now. He needs to take those quick first option short passes and get the run game going to suck those two safeties down.

But he doesn't. Or he won't.


I think he will make that adjustment.. he is just a young man proving his worth. I think he believes that he can have both worlds and he is trying to create that...he is a incredibly talented player and its is up to Pete to find a way to get him to find that balance either that or he learns the hard way which is going to impede his progress to becoming the best QB of all time but sometimes the hard way is the only way young men learn... hopefully there is some competition with Geno this is a great scenario...


LTH

I'm not sure he's willing to make that adjustment o even acknowledges that it needs to be made. Just listen to his pressers after a game with struggles. He's consistently defending those deep shots. He did it after the Titans game. I think his agent has created a team around him that reinforces his greatness to the point that he's fully bought in. There was a post game last year after a really bad game. Can't remember which game. He goes on about how he knows he's great and he'll continue to be great. Add that to all the legacy talk and I think he's jumped the shark. When is the last time you've heard any great QB talking about their own legacy or greatness while still playing, that wasn't just them dodging a question about it? There was a definite shift from we to me with him and I suspect his representation is behind all of it.
 

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LTH":3ml3axwn said:
SoulfishHawk":3ml3axwn said:
So now Geno is Joe Montana. Got it..........


lets face it Geno does have a different game than Russ does...That quick passing game (stuff he did in college that we might see now) might suit the Hawks better because of where the D stands right now... I'm not saying Geno is Joe Montana or better than Russ but I am saying that it's the Hawks philosophy to play to a players strength and I see no reason why they would not do that with Geno which might optimize the team as a whole...

am I wrong?


LTH

Alex Smith got the ball out quickly. The Chiefs got rid of him for a big play QB who holds onto the ball.

Great QB play is about decision making, not a quick passing game. I can't believe this is the hill some of you are willing to die on. It's as if you all think the Josh McDaniels/Tom Brady way is going to save you. But it's not Brady's quick passing that has made him great, it's his decision making. And the fact that he can usually comb his hair in the pocket.

So if Geno does quick passes and also throws over the middle, that will solve it? You realize that you still need to beat teams over the top right? Most defenses WANT you to quick pass and dink/dunk your way all over the field. Because 10-15 play drives are likely to result in mistakes. A fumble, an interception, a false start. A team that can get cheap points every now and then are usually great on offense.

So Geno playing opposite of Russ, is not necessarily a good thing if you're not scoring enough, and if you're not capitalizing in the red zone. You have to protect the ball, throw accurately, scare teams over the top, and score points. Something we've had no problem doing under Russ but something you take for granted because you think what Russ does every Sunday is easy. You all keep talking about what Geno does well while ignoring the OTHER things he has to do well.

Sgt. Largent":3ml3axwn said:
SoulfishHawk":3ml3axwn said:
It's a good point :mrgreen:

That I think Geno is Joe Montana?

No, it's a terrible point. Inaccurate, exaggerated and lazily passive aggressive.

This forum has a lot of age old narratives that just aren't true, and one of the big ones is OMG Russell would be so amazing on another team.

Take your pick of teams, and Russell would still hold onto the ball and get hit a lot looking to make the big plays downfield, has very little to do with protection and the O-line.

It's ingrained in his football DNA. That's they style of QB he is, for better or worse. Most of the time it's for the better, but that better is diminishing with each and every year his legs and body fail him more and more.

Oh my you're right. Russ might just go to another team and..*checks notes*...score 42 touchdowns. For an offensive minded coach better than Schotty, Bevel, or a rookie O-Coordinator who has LITERALLY never called games before (Shane Waldron).

How on earth will Russ ever succeed with a coach better than these options? Every other QB would score 50 TDs with those guys.

How does something become an age old narrative that isn't true? Because you want it to be so? Sure sounds like it. I want to be respectful on here but some of you are really stubborn and too prideful to admit your viewpoints have a million holes in them.

I look at the Cardinals, and the Bills, and the Chiefs. All three have QBs who hold the ball longer than Russ...based on actual facts. Do we care about actual facts? Or winning arguments? We're sticking to actual facts right, not just stuff you or myself want to be true?

I look at the Cardinals, and I see they sign Hopkins, AJ Green, and now they trade for Ertz. They invested in the O-line. In summary, they invested in the offense way more than the Seahawks have ever invested for Russ. Please, I would love for you to actually debate that this is false. We can even compare with the BIlls and Chiefs next.

The feeling that Russ would succeed on another team, is based on the fact that he gets rid of the ball quicker than he did before (FACT). That based on actual O-line stats, he's had a bad O-line for most of his career (FACT). And he has always played for an old school Defensive coach (FACT). Russ has never had the Seahawks sign a top 3 receiver like Hopkins, or nearly the level of scheme and offensive investment that some of these other QBs have.

You all spent years analyzing Wilson who played with Kearse, Ricardo Lockette, A Doug Baldwin that took years to mature, a DK Metcalf that has the dropsies and is still maturing, and a solid wide receiver in Lockett who has limitations. None of those options are Hopkins, AJ Green, and now Zach Ertz all at once on the same team. None of those options are Kelce and Hill with an offensive genius in Andy Reid.

Your argument is no different than those who said Lamar Jackson would never be able to throw. Or that Kyler Murray was a bust, or that Ryan Tannehill would never succeed. Especially for Jackson, Murray, and Wilson, we all love to put people who are "different" in boxes. I sometimes get sad realizing that if Murray or Jackson played for a conservative defensive minded coach, they would never realize their potential. Instead, their teams invested heavily in them, and believed in them. They don't listen to guys like yourself who never invest in those who are "different," then blame them for their "shortcomings." That is what Pete did with Russ.

Everything that makes Russ great...his playmaking...his overall accuracy, his deep throw accuracy..his strong arm, his instincts and decision making. That is all him. I'll give Pete credit for perhaps teaching Russ how to read defenses, but that inevitably comes with time for good QBs. There is nothing Pete has contributed to Russ' career that isn't replaceable. Coaching matters and where you land matters. Russ has never had an elite offensive coach or a strict focus of investment on the offense. He's never been given the keys to run an offense like what the Cardinals are doing now..spreading defenses out with elite weapons. Four of Pete's last Five first round picks, have been an investment in Pete's philosophy (not his quarterback). Ignoring that fact is literally the definition of a lazy narrative.
 

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John63":uw0lvqqi said:
right and the fact the rams went prevent on defense had nothing to do with it at all. As to the rest if you are really watching the games or have been fooling the threads you would know Wilson is not rallying on playground ball all the time only when he has to. You would know Geno tried it a couple of times too when he was flushed. you would know Wilson is hitting wr.


Where did it say the OC was handpicked by Wilson? All Wilson did was say ok.

Geno completed 59% of his passes, Wilson 70% so I think you might want to rewatch.


Also, FYI in one of the threads was the time to throw of all 3 qbs in the rams game, theirs and ours, Gues who had the lowest time to throw? Wilson meaning he was getting rid of the ball the quickest.

It amazes me how people only see or believe what they want.


For intelligent people, their opinions change when the facts change.

You can't argue with people who literally ignore the passing charts, and the film. And claim that Russ is scrambling around when the vast majority of his throws are within 1.5-2.5 seconds. It's a brain disease at this point, and also is a microcosm of our society at large.

If Russ was constantly holding onto the ball, scrambling around I would agree. But he literally hasn't consistently done that since 2017. He's making quick throws and getting rid of the ball. He's stepping up in the pocket and maneuvering. That 12 yard sack he took in the Rams game is far and few between, but in psychology this is what confirmation bias ON STEROIDS looks like.

That is why when Russ moves on, it doesn't matter what anyone here thinks. They can think Russ is figured out..that he holds onto the ball longer than any other QB. They can refuse to adjust their brains with the latest information. The great thing about facts are they'll be true regardless of my opinion. Which is why I take really careful time to look over passing charts, facts, and rewatching the games to counter what my bias and assumptions may be. Some here are just focused on winning arguments.
 

LTH

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Scorpion05":fd3naatv said:
LTH":fd3naatv said:
SoulfishHawk":fd3naatv said:
So now Geno is Joe Montana. Got it..........


lets face it Geno does have a different game than Russ does...That quick passing game (stuff he did in college that we might see now) might suit the Hawks better because of where the D stands right now... I'm not saying Geno is Joe Montana or better than Russ but I am saying that it's the Hawks philosophy to play to a players strength and I see no reason why they would not do that with Geno which might optimize the team as a whole...

am I wrong?


LTH

Alex Smith got the ball out quickly. The Chiefs got rid of him for a big play QB who holds onto the ball.

Great QB play is about decision making, not a quick passing game. I can't believe this is the hill some of you are willing to die on. It's as if you all think the Josh McDaniels/Tom Brady way is going to save you. But it's not Brady's quick passing that has made him great, it's his decision making. And the fact that he can usually comb his hair in the pocket.

So if Geno does quick passes and also throws over the middle, that will solve it? You realize that you still need to beat teams over the top right? Most defenses WANT you to quick pass and dink/dunk your way all over the field. Because 10-15 play drives are likely to result in mistakes. A fumble, an interception, a false start. A team that can get cheap points every now and then are usually great on offense.

So Geno playing opposite of Russ, is not necessarily a good thing if you're not scoring enough, and if you're not capitalizing in the red zone. You have to protect the ball, throw accurately, scare teams over the top, and score points. Something we've had no problem doing under Russ but something you take for granted because you think what Russ does every Sunday is easy. You all keep talking about what Geno does well while ignoring the OTHER things he has to do well.

Sgt. Largent":fd3naatv said:
SoulfishHawk":fd3naatv said:
It's a good point :mrgreen:

That I think Geno is Joe Montana?

No, it's a terrible point. Inaccurate, exaggerated and lazily passive aggressive.

This forum has a lot of age old narratives that just aren't true, and one of the big ones is OMG Russell would be so amazing on another team.

Take your pick of teams, and Russell would still hold onto the ball and get hit a lot looking to make the big plays downfield, has very little to do with protection and the O-line.

It's ingrained in his football DNA. That's they style of QB he is, for better or worse. Most of the time it's for the better, but that better is diminishing with each and every year his legs and body fail him more and more.

Oh my you're right. Russ might just go to another team and..*checks notes*...score 42 touchdowns. For an offensive minded coach better than Schotty, Bevel, or a rookie O-Coordinator who has LITERALLY never called games before (Shane Waldron).

How on earth will Russ ever succeed with a coach better than these options? Every other QB would score 50 TDs with those guys.

How does something become an age old narrative that isn't true? Because you want it to be so? Sure sounds like it. I want to be respectful on here but some of you are really stubborn and too prideful to admit your viewpoints have a million holes in them.

I look at the Cardinals, and the Bills, and the Chiefs. All three have QBs who hold the ball longer than Russ...based on actual facts. Do we care about actual facts? Or winning arguments? We're sticking to actual facts right, not just stuff you or myself want to be true?

I look at the Cardinals, and I see they sign Hopkins, AJ Green, and now they trade for Ertz. They invested in the O-line. In summary, they invested in the offense way more than the Seahawks have ever invested for Russ. Please, I would love for you to actually debate that this is false. We can even compare with the BIlls and Chiefs next.

The feeling that Russ would succeed on another team, is based on the fact that he gets rid of the ball quicker than he did before (FACT). That based on actual O-line stats, he's had a bad O-line for most of his career (FACT). And he has always played for an old school Defensive coach (FACT). Russ has never had the Seahawks sign a top 3 receiver like Hopkins, or nearly the level of scheme and offensive investment that some of these other QBs have.

You all spent years analyzing Wilson who played with Kearse, Ricardo Lockette, A Doug Baldwin that took years to mature, a DK Metcalf that has the dropsies and is still maturing, and a solid wide receiver in Lockett who has limitations. None of those options are Hopkins, AJ Green, and now Zach Ertz all at once on the same team. None of those options are Kelce and Hill with an offensive genius in Andy Reid.

Your argument is no different than those who said Lamar Jackson would never be able to throw. Or that Kyler Murray was a bust, or that Ryan Tannehill would never succeed. Especially for Jackson, Murray, and Wilson, we all love to put people who are "different" in boxes. I sometimes get sad realizing that if Murray or Jackson played for a conservative defensive minded coach, they would never realize their potential. Instead, their teams invested heavily in them, and believed in them. They don't listen to guys like yourself who never invest in those who are "different," then blame them for their "shortcomings." That is what Pete did with Russ.

Everything that makes Russ great...his playmaking...his overall accuracy, his deep throw accuracy..his strong arm, his instincts and decision making. That is all him. I'll give Pete credit for perhaps teaching Russ how to read defenses, but that inevitably comes with time for good QBs. There is nothing Pete has contributed to Russ' career that isn't replaceable. Coaching matters and where you land matters. Russ has never had an elite offensive coach or a strict focus of investment on the offense. He's never been given the keys to run an offense like what the Cardinals are doing now..spreading defenses out with elite weapons. Four of Pete's last Five first round picks, have been an investment in Pete's philosophy (not his quarterback). Ignoring that fact is literally the definition of a lazy narrative.

Your not understanding what I'm talking about. Yes I agree with you about great QB play being about decision making I've made that point over and over and it is part of my next point... but the quick passing game is about moving the chains and adjusting for when the D takes away the long ball. You don't need a passing chart to see when Wilson is making the potentially winning drive that he is looking for the big play rather than moving the chains and taking what the D gives him. it's really not prudent to throw into double coverage... If the big play is there yes take it, but when its not you have to check down rather than force the ball to a covered receiver. he does this as the passing charts show but some times not in key situations...Defenses have adjusted to Russ and now Russ has to adjust and he doesn't want to because he believes he is capable of making that big play every time. he just needs to find that balance and Yeah that's the difference between Russ and Brady... that's why Brady has many super bowl rings because he is not selfish he does what it takes to win regardless if it impedes on his stats...

As far as your statement about Pete not doing much for Russell's career your way off base on that one... Pete brought Russ into the league and nurtured him and brought him along perfectly... What Russ is going through right now every great QB goes through... Russ is taking the next step into being elite... he just needs to make some adjustment..

Nobody knows for sure if we are right or wrong that's just the way I see it. Just as your opinion is the way you see it only your wrong LMAO!!!!!!! just kidding...

LTH
 

keasley45

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We will see soon whether Pete has been holding Russ back, or providing him the platform to do what he does best , and mask what he doesn't.

The talk for years has been how Russ isn't achieving because Pete won't let him. So now Russ has Waldron... and looks pretty much the same as last year. Could it be that Pete gave Waldron the playbook Pete wants to run and told him 'hey, glad you're here, but this isnwhat I want you to do..' after all the drama of this offseason. sure, I suppose. Could also be that Russ and Shane are aligned and Shane is giving Russ exactly what he wants.

Could it be that Geno's success and the offense looking completely different was because the Rams gave up and were playing 'prevent D' and that the O line was holding a grudge agaunst Russ and when Geno came in, decided to do their jobs. I suppose that's possible as well. Could also be that the offense looked different because Shane called plays that weren't restricted by what Russ wants, and instead, were more attacking, fast hitting, spread plays and the Rams weren't ready for it.

It's just funny that all of a sudden the schizophrenic offensive performance this season is becoming the fault of a 'rookie' OC or somehow Pete continuing to 'meddle' and none of it has to do with the lone common denominator. Even when from his own mouth Russ defends shunning TE passes and short plays for the long balls. AND THEN doubles down and defends his decision when asked if the offense could do more to help the D by saying ' we scored x points ' - after the Tennessee loss. In other words, the offense did its job... forget that in the most critical moment, the defense gave you the ball in OT in you looked completely lost.

That's not a guy unhappy with what's being called. He's in fact calling it. He's defending it. It's his and Shane's offense, and the results statistically have been good, but functionally, average.

But hey, game manager types who throw only 26 tds against 10 ints and 3000 yards don't win MVPs. So who cares about whether the team is balanced and we are playing complimentary ball. If 'Russ can't cook', it seems he's no longer interested in being in the kitchen.

Geno is at least saying the right things about team first... offense, defense, and special teams. And I personally could care less whether the guy behind center wins the MVP.

The league's perspective has been entirely warped by these high flying passing attacks and the likes of Brady and... well Brady. Because he's the only one that's been consistently all world and able to bring home championships.

Mahomes? Everybody was clamoring for the KC offense... Kc styled playcalls, etc. They won one championship and got throttled in the second. They spent a ton on O line and are worse this year than they've been in a while. And Mahomes looks like a qb with superhuman ability all of a sudden functioning like a mortal.

Brees. - one championship
The guy in GB - one championship

Both consistently quoted as being the types of offenses, that if we could just dedicate resources to and keep Pete away, would yield a dynasty on the shoulders of our oppressed hero #3.

Chase stats if you want. From what I've seen, what's holding the offense back isn't a mandated play book. It's the play style of one player. When it works and the sandlot play supplemented by the occassional one read slant, PA passor bubble screen are effective, it's great. When it doesn't, it's not all of a sudden somebody else's fault.
 

John63

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keasley45":2vnvat30 said:
We will see soon whether Pete has been holding Russ back, or providing him the platform to do what he does best , and mask what he doesn't.

The talk for years has been how Russ isn't achieving because Pete won't let him. So now Russ has Waldron... and looks pretty much the same as last year. Could it be that Pete gave Waldron the playbook Pete wants to run and told him 'hey, glad you're here, but this isnwhat I want you to do..' after all the drama of this offseason. sure, I suppose. Could also be that Russ and Shane are aligned and Shane is giving Russ exactly what he wants.

Could it be that Geno's success and the offense looking completely different was because the Rams gave up and were playing 'prevent D' and that the O line was holding a grudge agaunst Russ and when Geno came in, decided to do their jobs. I suppose that's possible as well. Could also be that the offense looked different because Shane called plays that weren't restricted by what Russ wants, and instead, were more attacking, fast hitting, spread plays and the Rams weren't ready for it.

It's just funny that all of a sudden the schizophrenic offensive performance this season is becoming the fault of a 'rookie' OC or somehow Pete continuing to 'meddle' and none of it has to do with the lone common denominator. Even when from his own mouth Russ defends shunning TE passes and short plays for the long balls. AND THEN doubles down and defends his decision when asked if the offense could do more to help the D by saying ' we scored x points ' - after the Tennessee loss. In other words, the offense did its job... forget that in the most critical moment, the defense gave you the ball in OT in you looked completely lost.

That's not a guy unhappy with what's being called. He's in fact calling it. He's defending it. It's his and Shane's offense, and the results statistically have been good, but functionally, average.

But hey, game manager types who throw only 26 tds against 10 ints and 3000 yards don't win MVPs. So who cares about whether the team is balanced and we are playing complimentary ball. If 'Russ can't cook', it seems he's no longer interested in being in the kitchen.

Geno is at least saying the right things about team first... offense, defense, and special teams. And I personally could care less whether the guy behind center wins the MVP.

The league's perspective has been entirely warped by these high flying passing attacks and the likes of Brady and... well Brady. Because he's the only one that's been consistently all world and able to bring home championships.

Mahomes? Everybody was clamoring for the KC offense... Kc styled playcalls, etc. They won one championship and got throttled in the second. They spent a ton on O line and are worse this year than they've been in a while. And Mahomes looks like a qb with superhuman ability all of a sudden functioning like a mortal.

Brees. - one championship
The guy in GB - one championship

Both consistently quoted as being the types of offenses, that if we could just dedicate resources to and keep Pete away, would yield a dynasty on the shoulders of our oppressed hero #3.

Chase stats if you want. From what I've seen, what's holding the offense back isn't a mandated play book. It's the play style of one player. When it works and the sandlot play supplemented by the occassional one read slant, PA passor bubble screen are effective, it's great. When it doesn't, it's not all of a sudden somebody else's fault.

Ahh the old forget the facts and stats lets just go by what I see. That's thing people see what they want to see. That's why facts and stats matter. Exa6u say one read, yet as I posted Wilson has the 2nd best grade after first read. Guess what that means he looks past his first read. He also has one of the best passwrr acting inside the pocket. As I said people see what they want to see. If Wilson does sandlot Play once. Some say that's all he does. People see what they want.
 

OrangeGravy

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keasley45":1udaonro said:
We will see soon whether Pete has been holding Russ back, or providing him the platform to do what he does best , and mask what he doesn't.

The talk for years has been how Russ isn't achieving because Pete won't let him. So now Russ has Waldron... and looks pretty much the same as last year. Could it be that Pete gave Waldron the playbook Pete wants to run and told him 'hey, glad you're here, but this isnwhat I want you to do..' after all the drama of this offseason. sure, I suppose. Could also be that Russ and Shane are aligned and Shane is giving Russ exactly what he wants.

Could it be that Geno's success and the offense looking completely different was because the Rams gave up and were playing 'prevent D' and that the O line was holding a grudge agaunst Russ and when Geno came in, decided to do their jobs. I suppose that's possible as well. Could also be that the offense looked different because Shane called plays that weren't restricted by what Russ wants, and instead, were more attacking, fast hitting, spread plays and the Rams weren't ready for it.

It's just funny that all of a sudden the schizophrenic offensive performance this season is becoming the fault of a 'rookie' OC or somehow Pete continuing to 'meddle' and none of it has to do with the lone common denominator. Even when from his own mouth Russ defends shunning TE passes and short plays for the long balls. AND THEN doubles down and defends his decision when asked if the offense could do more to help the D by saying ' we scored x points ' - after the Tennessee loss. In other words, the offense did its job... forget that in the most critical moment, the defense gave you the ball in OT in you looked completely lost.

That's not a guy unhappy with what's being called. He's in fact calling it. He's defending it. It's his and Shane's offense, and the results statistically have been good, but functionally, average.

But hey, game manager types who throw only 26 tds against 10 ints and 3000 yards don't win MVPs. So who cares about whether the team is balanced and we are playing complimentary ball. If 'Russ can't cook', it seems he's no longer interested in being in the kitchen.

Geno is at least saying the right things about team first... offense, defense, and special teams. And I personally could care less whether the guy behind center wins the MVP.

The league's perspective has been entirely warped by these high flying passing attacks and the likes of Brady and... well Brady. Because he's the only one that's been consistently all world and able to bring home championships.

Mahomes? Everybody was clamoring for the KC offense... Kc styled playcalls, etc. They won one championship and got throttled in the second. They spent a ton on O line and are worse this year than they've been in a while. And Mahomes looks like a qb with superhuman ability all of a sudden functioning like a mortal.

Brees. - one championship
The guy in GB - one championship

Both consistently quoted as being the types of offenses, that if we could just dedicate resources to and keep Pete away, would yield a dynasty on the shoulders of our oppressed hero #3.

Chase stats if you want. From what I've seen, what's holding the offense back isn't a mandated play book. It's the play style of one player. When it works and the sandlot play supplemented by the occassional one read slant, PA passor bubble screen are effective, it's great. When it doesn't, it's not all of a sudden somebody else's fault.

Couldn't have said it better. :2thumbs:
 

toffee

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LTH":3v0gbb7h said:
SoulfishHawk":3v0gbb7h said:
So now Geno is Joe Montana. Got it..........


lets face it Geno does have a different game than Russ does...That quick passing game (stuff he did in college that we might see now) might suit the Hawks better because of where the D stands right now... I'm not saying Geno is Joe Montana or better than Russ but I am saying that it's the Hawks philosophy to play to a players strength and I see no reason why they would not do that with Geno which might optimize the team as a whole...

am I wrong?


LTH
You may not be wrong and we shall find out in coming games. One should not use the snaps he played in last game as an indication of great things to come.

A few observations though:

1. Geno could be quite popular in the locker room as teammates rallied around him, even the defense.

2. Geno didn't overthink or hold and wait for better, wrong, deeper throws.

3. Seemingly calmer in the pocket, probably due to Ram didn't focus on rushing him.

4. Seemingly stayed within the play structure, one could take this as negative as Russ could and did pull rabbits out of failed plays.

You bet Geno is super motivated, if he plays well in coming games, it may lead to opportunities for one last fat contract with some other teams.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
 

TwistedHusky

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The problem is that Wilson is literally the only thing this team does well.

What does this team do well?

It is not :

Defense
Coaching
Secondary
Pass Rush
Linebacker play
Pass Defense
Run Defense
Pass Protection

It used to be
talent/player development
Rushing offense

Right now, the ONLY thing this team is better than average at is long passes. So you lose Wilson, you lose the only thing that makes you even remotely above average at anything.

Wilson might be inconsistent but he is literally the only good thing you have on your team. DK and Tyler are fantastic receivers, but they won't move the needle enough to matter. They themselves are best used as receivers catching the long ball.

So be honest about Wilson but if you are being honest you would realize that the only thing worth keeping on this team IS Wilson. Everything else is average or below average with the exception of Carson and the WRs. That ain't enough.

And that is another reason why Geno playing a good or even very good game won't matter. Because the team is bad at everything else. The roster isn't good and the coaching is below average. A backup QB won't fix that.
 

SlickRick

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SeAhAwKeR4life":2awtgw7z said:
Without the over the top love or hate, can we?

Put me mostly in the "love" camp.

Realistically though I do see Russ has weaknesses. His inability to play a consistent short pass west coast kind of game comes down to just being too short to be an effective pocket passer. If you can't stay in the pocket, behind guys who are over 6 feet and see the field, how can you hit targets on short WCO schemes?

I mean it seems to me, I saw him literally bounce one of a guy's helmet. Like Flutie before him, he CAN be used effectively, but it takes some scheming and a "non traditional" line who is capable of blocking for such a QB.

Did we not see Geno come in cold and run the offense with better timing and efficiency?

RW is a great QB who CAN and HAS overcome his own weaknesses in the past. Hell the guy's "weakenesses" themselves are not talent related, just simple physics, a guy his size can't see over the O/D lines!

The thing is, it's hard enough to protect a "pocket passer" a guy tall enough to play the WCO and hit the short routes effectively. But we're not asking our line to do that, We're asking our line to protect a guy whos game REQUIRES him to get out of the pocket. He also takes sacks for this reason. So I think his downside is not nearly as much his fault as our inability to get the necessary talent and scheme around the guy to make him as effective as he can be.

I would MUCH rather see other player/coaching changes, changes that see Russell Wilson prospering and playing to the level he can here in Seattle. Unfortunately I see things more likely going the other way. I see Pete, whose shelf life is clearly past, still here, and Russel wanting to leave (and if you were him, wouldn't you?)

I got three SuperbOwl appearances and one GREAT championship out of my Seahawks before I passed, and I will always be grateful, I never thought I would. But I can't say I have much faith in today's Seahawks not disappointing me again.

I HATE saying this, but I'd rather see Wilson go and prosper, than stay and stagnate. :34853_doh:

I don't have faith in Pete, or the ownership, to fix this. I hope I am wrong.

This is a great post. Honest truth, I like it. I can't say it any better.
 

Mad Dog

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Is the love affair with Geno over? He is who most of us thought he was. More batted passes in one half than Russ has in an entire year.
 

zhawk

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For those who are eager to dump Russ, this is what we’ll have. Hope I’m wrong but... :pukeface:
 

AlciG

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Lets hope Geno can keep the boat afloat until Russ comes back. I'm still hopeful of making the POs.
I still don't understand why people are so eager to see Russ go.
 
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