RedAlice
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even more than the best teams: the best coached!
I will give Hawks the advantage on pants the coaches choose to wear.
I will give Hawks the advantage on pants the coaches choose to wear.
The myth of poor protection and the dominant Rams D
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keasley45
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I dont think you can say Darnold is clawing to be good. You dont put up the play he has over the last 2 years without having one helluva toolkit and talent to go along with it. But like 'luck', much of the game comes down to certain intangibles. Certain guys possess a calm under pressure and come into the game with it. Its as much chemical / phyiological as it is anything else. The game just moves slower for them and they are able to 'see' and anticipate things as much because of innate 'feel' as any experience gained. I have seen it at the peewee level where there are kids who play qb, practice their asses off and have good enough talent but cant beat out the kid who switches into QB from WR and just gets it from day one. There isnt 'experience' there. Its just a feel for the game.
Darnold has experience. From where i sit, its a questions of whether he can accumulate enough of it still to offset what he is obviously missing in the intangibles department.
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keasley45
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I'm good with it
RedAlice
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RedAlice
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You are correct in one aspect: Darnold has experience. In losing. Darnold seeing "ghosts" is not a meme because it's false, it is a mimic of how he plays.
I do think I can say that Darnold is clawing to be good, because he has not won anything yet. He is clawing to win the ultimate that he desires: a Lombardi. He is clawing for that.
He views the Hawks as a vehicle for what he wants: a Lombardi
IMO: Darnold played like he was good the whole game. He did not fold or bow down. He is determined.
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And this is why imo I feel Seattle is the better team. It’s not by much. But still in a position to win by 1 point only lost by 2 even after everything negatively that happened.
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keasley45
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There are very average qbs who have won playoff games. That isnt the measure of whether a player is good or not.
hox
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Really appreciate the great work, but pressure did have some impact on those plays.
Pick #1. This is not a clean pocket with Olu in his lap. It moved him off his spot and caused a backfoot throw.
Could he have thrown it a second earlier before Olu fell in his lap? Maybe Walker underneath but that route was still developing. Maybe JSN but even that wasn't exactly wide open at that particular point.
Even in your screen grab, the corner was in JSN's hip pocket and there was safety help over the top:
Could he have stepped aside or rolled out to buy more time? Sure but he wouldn't have had to, if Olu wasn't in his lap.
Pick #2. This was a bang bang play, literally right after the snap - he was already in his throwing motion when instant pressure appeared in his face. There was no time to escape the unblocked rusher. Again, pressure.
Pick #3 is where he would have the most time to process and make a better decision, but you can't say this was a clean pocket either. Bradford was getting beat by 55 = pressure.
Another angle showing the pressure:
Pick #4. Pocket collapsed. Three dudes were in his face almost immediately = pressure.
In all instances he could have made better decisions, but in nearly all instances there was pressure that impacted these plays.
The thing is, he's a bit of a gunslinger - not exactly hero ball - but he's aggressive trying to make every play count. It's why the offense has been the most explosive this season and he leads the league in yards per pass attempt.
He's second in the league in completion percentage:
But when you're playing a team that can bring pressure, while playing dime to prevent explosives, sometimes you have to take the check downs or underneath routes - like he did very well at times with Barner in this game. Other times, not so much.
Pick #1. This is not a clean pocket with Olu in his lap. It moved him off his spot and caused a backfoot throw.
Could he have thrown it a second earlier before Olu fell in his lap? Maybe Walker underneath but that route was still developing. Maybe JSN but even that wasn't exactly wide open at that particular point.
Even in your screen grab, the corner was in JSN's hip pocket and there was safety help over the top:
Could he have stepped aside or rolled out to buy more time? Sure but he wouldn't have had to, if Olu wasn't in his lap.
Pick #2. This was a bang bang play, literally right after the snap - he was already in his throwing motion when instant pressure appeared in his face. There was no time to escape the unblocked rusher. Again, pressure.
Pick #3 is where he would have the most time to process and make a better decision, but you can't say this was a clean pocket either. Bradford was getting beat by 55 = pressure.
Another angle showing the pressure:
Pick #4. Pocket collapsed. Three dudes were in his face almost immediately = pressure.
In all instances he could have made better decisions, but in nearly all instances there was pressure that impacted these plays.
The thing is, he's a bit of a gunslinger - not exactly hero ball - but he's aggressive trying to make every play count. It's why the offense has been the most explosive this season and he leads the league in yards per pass attempt.
He's second in the league in completion percentage:
But when you're playing a team that can bring pressure, while playing dime to prevent explosives, sometimes you have to take the check downs or underneath routes - like he did very well at times with Barner in this game. Other times, not so much.
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I feel.. unlike many, what you’re saying is true however I also feel, unlike previous stops for Darnold Seattle has the staff to coach him up. His mistakes he made weren’t ones that can’t be corrected. They’re coachable which leaves room for plenty of growth. Which Darnold imo also feels that way being in Seattle
RedAlice
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Yes, we are all aware of Nick Foles.
Darnold is nothing in the history of the NFL until he proves it now. He is clawing to be good. Quite simply: if he doesn't earn it now with the Hawks, where has he earned it?
Torc
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There's an argument that home field advantage is considered worth three points. Given the results of this game, on a neutral field you'd expect the Seahawks to win, 4 interceptions and all. Of course, we have the game in Seattle to see if that holds true.
RedAlice
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I agree with you.
I am also rooting for Darnold when he isn't playing the Rams. I remember watching his pre-season games back in 2018 as a Jet, I saw something in him. He had a fire in his eyes that was fun to watch.
He he did well but my post was about why I thought Sam didn’t play well.
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keasley45
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Hox, he was flatfooted standing behind Olu because he stopped reading the play, locked in on Kupp and had predetermined to launch the ball from where he did. Thats like going into a movie theater with one person sitting in it, sitting behind him and then complaining that you cant see the screen. It is absolutely the job of the qb to not just select a platform and launch. He never looked to Walker. He never looked to JSN. And that is worse than the decision he made for where to throw the ball. The corner was beat by JSN, obviously and immediately. If you are defending him there, then why on gods green earth did he throw it to him on the pick when he was never open on an out in zone coverage, or on the other play where Sam had time and missed 3 other reads to throw to JSN completely covered. Thats why i included the other plays because its not JUST the INTS that he missed on.
As to the pressure stat, nobody said he wasnt pressured, i agree. He was, but the line didnt fail him or cause him to throw those picks. Poor decision making did. The tape shows a QB who often isnt good at FEELING the pressure and he had opportunities to beat it because Kubiak gave them to him and he missed them. The pressure number could have been what it was AND he could have not thrown the INTs. One didnt mean the other had to happen and the tape shows it. There were plays where he beat the pressure successfully or just tossed the ball away. Those were also part of the 70%. But the problem is the moments he brain farts and thats what the tape captures. AND, like with Russ who was perennially 'the most pressure QB in the NFL, pressure is tallied as a play where a defender effects the QB's natural intention to throw. Well, as with the first INT, if the QB runs behind a block and then just stands there, flat footed and tosses it up off of his back foot when he has 20 yards of green to his right, thats a pressure that gets counted but not one that should have effected the outcome. And pressure is also then counted as when a qb has to step left, right, or up into the pocket to throw. That happens ALL the time. Its not a reason to throw an INT.
Pick No4 is a reasonable pocket by NFL standards. if the expectation is that Sam will fail when he gets that level of push, we may as well call it a season and look for our next QB not named Milroe or Luck
The way he played yesterday was similar to what we have seen in other games. The houston game where he rolled into pressure in the endzone right into where the pressure was coming from is a great example. Or, in the the int to JSN in this game where there was nothing tell him to stand in the pocket and HAVE to wait for JSN to be able to turn around and see the ball coming on a rushed throw... against zone coverage when the FIRST thing he should have done was see the stunt and bail right. Really good QBs do this all the time. He just stood there and decided to throw, because as in his first three picks, he didnt consider anyone else on the play. Kupp - he ignored Walker. If the pressure was there so quickly, he should have hit the outlet, or if he had looked right, he would have seen that his locking in on Kupp moved the Safety and JSN was open for the big play. Sam has thrown to JSN in tighter situations than what he had on that play.
Arroyo INT ? He went straight to him and never considered anyone else. He looks left to try to move a guy in man and THAT was his mistake. The LB didn't move and Sam didn't adjust. He just threw it anyway because that's the only place he was going.
And i dont see how this is even debatable. He has 30 TOs in 28 games and has shown a propensity to make bad reads throughout his career.
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RedAlice
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Hopefully they can address and get past whatever the actual problem was.
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Ok, it wasn't clear from this comment. It was Darnold in your opinion. got it.
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keasley45
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Was Stafford good before he got to the Rams?
RedAlice
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Exactly my point.
ETA: Stafford was good in his own mind in Detroit. He became good and accomplished in LA.
RedAlice
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You said: I dont think you can say Darnold is clawing to be good.
I said: Darnold is clawing to be good.
I said: Darnold is clawing to be good.
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keasley45
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Stafford was absolutely a good QB before he got to the Rams.
Trackhawk
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I did a breakdown of Bradford's play on the INTs in this game elsewhere, and the TLDR is that he performed admirably, and it was clear that the weak point in pass-pro was Olu.
1st interception, he absolutely pancaked Ford, freeing Lucas to focus on Young. Davis simply drove Olu into Sam's lap. It looks like Benton had Bradford focus on helping out Olu after this play.
2nd interception, Bradford and Lucas had Fiske completely bottled up. Charbs inexplicably jumps in to help out, leaving Young, on his stunt, with a free lane to Darnold. Charbs should have picked that up, or at least gone laterally for a check down.
3rd interception, Bradford has no one to block at the snap, so he chips in to help Olu, who is being driven back by Fiske. He knocks Fiske to the ground, and maintains his position, keeping a clean pocket on the right side.
4th interception was a masterclass in the Rams taking advantage of what our offensive line was doing, in over pursuing. The pressure appears to be coming from the left side, so the offensive line focuses there, only to get swept into a bunch, opening a lane on the right.
Bradford goes to help Olu, and Verse seals Bradford out of the actual rushing lane. The intent of all this was to leave a wide open lane on the right side for Ford to stunt through. Lucas might should have picked that up.
This is the play where you see Bradford looking back to see what Sam is doing, and whether to keep pass blocking, or turn upfield for a scramble. It was the right thing to do, though many are saying he didn't know what he was doing, and was blocking Zabel. In fact, Zabel is in the wrong here. The pass rush is already well behind Zabel, and he is still focused on blocking absolutely nobody downfield. If he simply looks behind him, he and Bradford could have opened a nice rushing lane for Sam.
1st interception, he absolutely pancaked Ford, freeing Lucas to focus on Young. Davis simply drove Olu into Sam's lap. It looks like Benton had Bradford focus on helping out Olu after this play.
2nd interception, Bradford and Lucas had Fiske completely bottled up. Charbs inexplicably jumps in to help out, leaving Young, on his stunt, with a free lane to Darnold. Charbs should have picked that up, or at least gone laterally for a check down.
3rd interception, Bradford has no one to block at the snap, so he chips in to help Olu, who is being driven back by Fiske. He knocks Fiske to the ground, and maintains his position, keeping a clean pocket on the right side.
4th interception was a masterclass in the Rams taking advantage of what our offensive line was doing, in over pursuing. The pressure appears to be coming from the left side, so the offensive line focuses there, only to get swept into a bunch, opening a lane on the right.
Bradford goes to help Olu, and Verse seals Bradford out of the actual rushing lane. The intent of all this was to leave a wide open lane on the right side for Ford to stunt through. Lucas might should have picked that up.
This is the play where you see Bradford looking back to see what Sam is doing, and whether to keep pass blocking, or turn upfield for a scramble. It was the right thing to do, though many are saying he didn't know what he was doing, and was blocking Zabel. In fact, Zabel is in the wrong here. The pass rush is already well behind Zabel, and he is still focused on blocking absolutely nobody downfield. If he simply looks behind him, he and Bradford could have opened a nice rushing lane for Sam.
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