Geno is MR. CLUTCH

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
3,900
Reaction score
6,899
Location
Cockeysville, Md
I would argue you saying Waldron isn’t calling good plays is very subjective. Griff a Seahawks twitter guru, says we call all the same plays the Niners do, we just aren’t executing. This doesn’t mean Waldron is perfect, far from it but it’s not like he’s an idiot either. The failures are more a mix of play calling, execution and talent level than any of the “camps” want to admit.

You’re painting this picture of Geno like he’s faultless in any of this. He’s a really good QB and almost every metric puts him in the 10-20 range which is about right. That means he’s very good but not perfect. The camp claiming Geno sucks aren’t being fair either. I’m critical of Geno overall but he’s been decent and done some good things too.

Geno isn't faultless. The dude too often has a single speed wind up that I swear seems like it takes 6 seconds to get the ball out.

He also hangs in the pocket too long at times, rather than just taking off and running.

And he has missed his share of open guys and often just chosen not to pull the trigger on certain plays that were there.

But you cant divorce his failures from waldrons anymore than you can credit Geno for succeeding in spite of him. Geno goes as far as Waldron can take him. He's not an elite guy who you can plug in any coordinator with and see success, anymore than Ruch Gannon was. Both needed a good playcalller to put them in position to succeed.

And its not just the plays we call. Its when we call them. KJ and Brock have said they beleive opposing defenses know not just when we are going to run vs pass, but what the pass plays are going to be.

You cant just copy plays other teams are running. If that were the case, everybidy woukd be running the 9ers offense. Or the Rams offense. Or the Miami offense. The success comes from the strategy and knowing when to call plays, how to disguise them and how to throw wrinkes at the opposing defense to have them think you are going to zig, when in fact you are zagging. Waldron mostly copies plays.

Evidence of this is obvious In that for most of the season, our offense has been outstanding early in games scoring points, putting up yards, and then going silent - someone posted a pretty revealing stat chart of this trend a few weeks ago. That speaks directly to poor strategy AND / OR an inability to scheme a good running game whrn we want to go ball control.

Think about it. Why is the offense so good early and then quiet? Why can Geno put up performances like he did against Detroit, Dallas, to open the Rams games, the Cincy game, the Browns game, and close so well that he's tied the NFL single season record for comeback TDs if he's the real issue?

He's not perfect. But he's better than he's often given credit for. If Waldron is improving and growing, the offense will get better. If he can figure out how to unlock the run gamethe offense will get better. And if both of thise things happen, Geno will obviously be better.
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
30,198
Reaction score
10,656
Location
Sammamish, WA
He certainly was clutch when it mattered. I may be in the minority (haven't read the rest of the thread) but he seemed pretty poised all game. He def. sailed some passes in the 1st half, but I felt like he was gonna' get it done in the end. Coming from me, that's saying a lot. I find myself trusting him a hell of a lot more these days.
Waldron and his run on 1st and 2nd down crap in the red zone is getting really old.
That being said, this is a slightly above average team that can be damn good at times. They've lost some game they should have won, and they've won some game they probably should have lost. At this point, does it even matter HOW it looks when you win? I honestly couldn't care less. Never apologize for a win.
Plus, I can just come to dot everything sucks and read all the "the Seahawks won but......" posts
Meh, just win the damn game, ugly or not. This is how it has ALWAYS been under Pete. It's maddening how they often wait until the 4th quarter to ramp it up. But it's not going to magically change.
.02
 
Last edited:

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,339
Reaction score
3,883
Geno isn't faultless. The dude too often has a single speed wind up that I swear seems like it takes 6 seconds to get the ball out.

He also hangs in the pocket too long at times, rather than just taking off and running.

And he has missed his share of open guys and often just chosen not to pull the trigger on certain plays that were there.

But you cant divorce his failures from waldrons anymore than you can credit Geno for succeeding in spite of him. Geno goes as far as Waldron can take him. He's not an elite guy who you can plug in any coordinator with and see success, anymore than Ruch Gannon was. Both needed a good playcalller to put them in position to succeed.

And its not just the plays we call. Its when we call them. KJ and Brock have said they beleive opposing defenses know not just when we are going to run vs pass, but what the pass plays are going to be.

You cant just copy plays other teams are running. If that were the case, everybidy woukd be running the 9ers offense. Or the Rams offense. Or the Miami offense. The success comes from the strategy and knowing when to call plays, how to disguise them and how to throw wrinkes at the opposing defense to have them think you are going to zig, when in fact you are zagging. Waldron mostly copies plays.

Evidence of this is obvious In that for most of the season, our offense has been outstanding early in games scoring points, putting up yards, and then going silent - someone posted a pretty revealing stat chart of this trend a few weeks ago. That speaks directly to poor strategy AND / OR an inability to scheme a good running game whrn we want to go ball control.

Think about it. Why is the offense so good early and then quiet? Why can Geno put up performances like he did against Detroit, Dallas, to open the Rams games, the Cincy game, the Browns game, and close so well that he's tied the NFL single season record for comeback TDs if he's the real issue?

He's not perfect. But he's better than he's often given credit for. If Waldron is improving and growing, the offense will get better. If he can figure out how to unlock the run gamethe offense will get better. And if both of thise things happen, Geno will obviously be better.
Solid post. I don't agree with everything but well thought out and mostly tough to argue with.

I'll just say being on pace for 24-12 for the year that he's at least a part of the problem as that isn't great. he has played well in some tough games which has been awesome. The Dallas game was fantastic. He probably deserves more credit than many fans are giving him though and far from our biggest issue. I think fans here(myself included) were a little spoiled by Wilson's numbers and efficiency which was incredible for a long time so we expect a 30+/<8 and 100+ passer rating every year and very few guys do that.
 

12forlife

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
768
Reaction score
526
Does our playcalling come into play at all against 'good defenses '?

How about the fact that our running game is near the bottom of the league?

Might that factor into us not beating 'good defenses'?

I mean, if your play caller isn't calling good plays ( and this isn't subjective analysis. Analysts and sports writers have referenced it) and can't scheme a ground game really at all... how does that affect qb play in your eyes?

Or is Geno only better than serviceable if he designs and calls his own plays and pulls a Michael Vick and just creates a running game on his own? Seems like that's where the goal posts have moved to now.

First it was - he can't play at all... 33 / 32. washed up, won't beat Lock.

Then it was he's good, but he can't get us to the playoffs.

Then it was 'ok, he's fine, but not clutch'

Now it's - ok, he's so clutch he's about to break an NFL record, but it doesnt count, because it's not against the elite teams in the league.

Got it.
I agree there needs to be a change @ OC, there is no reason we aren't a top 5 offense all day! 2 very good backs that compliment eachother, DK, Lockett, Njigba, Bobo, Fant, and Parkinson are a beautiful mix of receivers. No reason this team doesn't average 30 a game. A healthy consistent Oline would help the whole show.
 

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,339
Reaction score
3,883
I'm just going to repeat that CMikeSpinmove who's a great film guy and studies the Seahawks as much as anyone thinks Waldron is doing a pretty good job and most of the failures are execution based along with continuity on the offensive line playing a big role as well. He knows more football than most and that's his thoughts on it. I don't think Waldron is as bad as many think he is. May be Griff and others who study it are wrong, could be but I think we're giving the players more of a pass then they should get.
 

12forlife

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
768
Reaction score
526
Solid post. I don't agree with everything but well thought out and mostly tough to argue with.

I'll just say being on pace for 24-12 for the year that he's at least a part of the problem as that isn't great. he has played well in some tough games which has been awesome. The Dallas game was fantastic. He probably deserves more credit than many fans are giving him though and far from our biggest issue. I think fans here(myself included) were a little spoiled by Wilson's numbers and efficiency which was incredible for a long time so we expect a 30+/<8 and 100+ passer rating every year and very few guys do that.
Not looking for an argument, but how do you figure Geno is throwing 24TD's, when he only has 17 with 2 games left? GeNo is averaging like 1.2 TD's agame?
 

12forlife

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
768
Reaction score
526
I'm just going to repeat that CMikeSpinmove who's a great film guy and studies the Seahawks as much as anyone thinks Waldron is doing a pretty good job and most of the failures are execution based along with continuity on the offensive line playing a big role as well. He knows more football than most and that's his thoughts on it. I don't think Waldron is as bad as many think he is. May be Griff and others who study it are wrong, could be but I think we're giving the players more of a pass then they should get.
I have to disagree here. Seattle's 3rd down, and red zone have been way to predictable all season. Seems like most 3rd downs Geno trys to force it to DK, while Jaxon is WIDE open. Then our red zone offense some weeks resembles a Jr High jv squad, just look like we aren't sure what we want to run?
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
30,198
Reaction score
10,656
Location
Sammamish, WA
On the broadcast, they basically said Geno was the worst in the league in the red zone. I'm sure he would tell you he needs to improve drastically. The offense as a whole does in the Red Zone.
 

Chukarhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2011
Messages
4,117
Reaction score
1,544
LOL pointing out Geno is the worst in the league in the red zone makes me a hater? Hilarious. Geno is a middling starter when he's playing well that can absolutely do some great stuff but he's wildly inconsistent, doesn't have great pocket awareness, doesn't throw a lot of TD's and turns the ball over regularly. He's decent, good at times, great rarely. Glad he's been able to lead some game winning drives and keep us in the playoff hunt. He definitely gives us the best chance to win.
 

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,339
Reaction score
3,883
I have to disagree here. Seattle's 3rd down, and red zone have been way to predictable all season. Seems like most 3rd downs Geno trys to force it to DK, while Jaxon is WIDE open. Then our red zone offense some weeks resembles a Jr High jv squad, just look like we aren't sure what we want to run?
Well last game Geno had a touchdown twice and was late pulling the trigger which he even admitted after the game. Is that on Waldron? No it’s on Geno.
 

Chawker

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
5,395
Reaction score
1,337
Location
corner of 30th & plum
Clutch... Is he shifting gears or is he riding the cluth to gain some traction ?

If he had a good top loader 4 speed he wouldn't need the cluch when banging those gears. GO GENO !
 

12forlife

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
768
Reaction score
526
Well last game Geno had a touchdown twice and was late pulling the trigger which he even admitted after the game. Is that on Waldron? No it’s on Geno.
Honestly it's a combination, average/poor QB play, while there is plenty to be desired from the play calling. I think alot of it has to do with Geno's limitations.
 

knownone

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
5,312
Reaction score
2,272
Geno's tied for 10th in RZ scoring (total scoring, and he's missed two games). In what metric is Geno last in the league?
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
30,198
Reaction score
10,656
Location
Sammamish, WA
They said on the broadcast that he was the worst in the league in the Red Zone. I don't agree, but they did say it.
Two sure TD's and the ball came out really late. Just glad he got it done when it mattered.
I found myself trusting that he was gonna' get it done on Sunday. Probably more than any time since he's been here. Just a gut feeling, but I didn't feel like he was panicking or anything. He just was off in the 1st half. It's not just on him, the team in general needs to be a lot better in the Red Zone.
They're not good enough overall to settle for 3 all the time, imo.
 

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,339
Reaction score
3,883
Our redzone offense is terrible. Some of that is on Geno, Some on Waldron and a lot of it on the offensive line probably.
 

12forlife

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
768
Reaction score
526
Our redzone offense is terrible. Some of that is on Geno, Some on Waldron and a lot of it on the offensive line probably.
It is definitely a combination of all 3. I'm with you though, I'm done commenting on Geno threads. I just don't think he's good enough to be our starter? Half the site don't agree, oh well. I'm just not getting why "average" is good enough? Catch ya on another topic!
 
OP
OP
Welshers2

Welshers2

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2023
Messages
1,000
Reaction score
1,403
It is definitely a combination of all 3. I'm with you though, I'm done commenting on Geno threads. I just don't think he's good enough to be our starter? Half the site don't agree, oh well. I'm just not getting why "average" is good enough? Catch ya on another topic!
That's fair I think the main problem is there is no one to replace him. As things stand he is the best available option so putting a bunch of hate on the guy just seems kind of dumb. It feels like either side is just getting jettisoned to the extreme. Anyone who defends Geno is apparently calling him elite and I'm sure anyone who is against him feels they are being misrepresented as well.
 

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,339
Reaction score
3,883
That's fair I think the main problem is there is no one to replace him. As things stand he is the best available option so putting a bunch of hate on the guy just seems kind of dumb. It feels like either side is just getting jettisoned to the extreme. Anyone who defends Geno is apparently calling him elite and I'm sure anyone who is against him feels they are being misrepresented as well.
Yeah I think if we were all sitting in a room talking about this we wouldn’t be all that far off from each other. People just like to argue on the internet and it would be more cordial in person. My guess is very few are on the extremes of thinking he’s trash or super elite but everyone seems to be arguing like they are lol
 

12forlife

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
768
Reaction score
526
That's fair I think the main problem is there is no one to replace him. As things stand he is the best available option so putting a bunch of hate on the guy just seems kind of dumb. It feels like either side is just getting jettisoned to the extreme. Anyone who defends Geno is apparently calling him elite and I'm sure anyone who is against him feels they are being misrepresented as well.
Well I'm a little bit beside myself. Geno has had an average year at best. What happened to Pete's "always compete" motto? Now I'm not saying Lock is our QBOTF, but he comes in and beats the Eagles to boost us back into the playoffs picture. So there is no QB controversy? Geno comes back, and everyone thinks he's a God because he had a game winning drive against a 5-10 team, after he played a absolutely horrible 1st half, and in my opinion should have been pulled. Waaay to many games where we do nothing for 6-9 possessions in a row then all the sudden Geno wakes up, makes 2-3 throws and beats teams with losing records, that we should have put away by the 4th.
 
OP
OP
Welshers2

Welshers2

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2023
Messages
1,000
Reaction score
1,403
Well I'm a little bit beside myself. Geno has had an average year at best. What happened to Pete's "always compete" motto? Now I'm not saying Lock is our QBOTF, but he comes in and beats the Eagles to boost us back into the playoffs picture. So there is no QB controversy? Geno comes back, and everyone thinks he's a God because he had a game winning drive against a 5-10 team, after he played a absolutely horrible 1st half, and in my opinion should have been pulled. Waaay to many games where we do nothing for 6-9 possessions in a row then all the sudden Geno wakes up, makes 2-3 throws and beats teams with losing records, that we should have put away by the 4th.
I really don't think anyone says he's a God though. In fact I don't think anyone, literally anyone, has said anything of the type. That's what I mean by misrepresentation. People say they think he's better then Lock and an average qb and you take it as people saying he's a God. Simply untrue
 
Top