Wagner in MM’s D

[GemCity]

I know some folks have been ‘down’ on B- Wagz. I think he’s still great at stopping the run but lackluster in pass coverage.

During the course of last season, it appeared as if teams knew exactly where to go on 3rd and long…similar to forcing JA to pick up a TE or WR.

Watching MM’s defense and how he disguises what typically turns into a Cover 3, I’m having trouble imagining BW in his defense.

I think his best fit is on 3rd/4th’s and short (very short). “No sh#* Sherlock kind of statement”….as this isn’t a revelation of some type. I’m just not seeing where else he fits in MMs schemes.

Did he just play his last year here (again)?

 

[Cyrus12]

I think they move on but who knows? If it's a team friendly deal they could bring him back? I'm leaning toward a completely new start though.

 

[GemCity]

I think they move on but who knows? If it's a team friendly deal they could bring him back? I'm leaning toward a completely new start though.

Likewise. MMs LBs could also cover really well.

I’m guessing they move on.

 

[Hawknight]

I think they move on but who knows? If it's a team friendly deal they could bring him back? I'm leaning toward a completely new start though.

As much as I have appreciated Bobby and his outstanding dedication to this team, I think MM will be going a different direction. I think "youth" is the key to his next moves and alot of changes are in store for this team. However, we won't know much until he has an OC in place.

 

[pittpnthrs]

For his shortcomings, Wagz is still the best LB on the team. I think he plays one more season while Mac searches for his replacement.

 

[Hawknight]

For his shortcomings, Wagz is still the best LB on the team. I think he plays one more season while Mac searches for his replacement.

Very possible the he will stay, it's also quite possible as well that a few players favored by MM may follow him over to Seattle.

 

[DarkVictory23]

The problem with Bobby is this: He's the best guy we have for being the Mike LB in terms of leadership.

He's also our biggest vulnerability when it comes to obvious passing situations (3rd and mid/long).

So, you want him to be able to be the QB for the defense... but also be able to take him off the field in a large number of third down situations. Which doesn't work.

Macdonald's scheme on the Ravens seemed to rely heavily on Roquan Smith being a top tier Mike LB but for Bobby to fill that role Coach Mike would have to scheme around Bobby's liabilities in coverage.

So, I feel like Bobby staying on the Seahawks will depend heavily on either A) Whether Macdonald believes he can scheme around Bobby's liabilities or B) whether Bobby is willing to take a different role that probably has him playing off the bench more than he's used to.


EDIT: For my take, I hope they are able to figure something out. Would love for B Wagz to finish his career here on good terms.

 

[Chukarhawk]

wags is gone. LBs gotta be able to cover man, it's not optional.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

I’d like to see Bobby and KJ as assistants. Just monster D.

 

[WarHawks]

I can see where they would move on from him, but I'm just not sure who they will get in the draft, given how little draft capital we have, that will be any better. Maybe a younger FA? They will need to clear some cap space if that's the case.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I can see where they would move on from him, but I'm just not sure who they will get in the draft, given how little draft capital we have, that will be any better. Maybe a younger FA? They will need to clear some cap space if that's the case.

FA

 

[Kamcussionator]

Devin Bush might fit MM’s profile for LBs more than anyone else on the roster. We’ll see.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Macdonald's/Ravens D scheme requires 2-3 extremely versatile and fast LB's that can run not only sideline to sideline, but drop into coverage quickly.

Wagner at this stage of his career is box MLB that struggled badly in coverage/zone, and even looked diminished in the run game last year.

This all spells don't expect Bobby to be back next year.

 

[SeaWolv]

wags is gone. LBs gotta be able to cover man, it's not optional.

This is the defensive evolution of the NFL game. LB's have to do more than just stop the run, they have to cover the short crossing routes.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He has to do what is the best choice for HIM as a coach. If coach moves on from Bobby, so be it. I hope Bobby stays one more year though.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Macdonald's/Ravens D scheme requires 2-3 extremely versatile and fast LB's that can run not only sideline to sideline, but drop into coverage quickly.

Wagner at this stage of his career is box MLB that struggled badly in coverage/zone, and even looked diminished in the run game last year.

This all spells don't expect Bobby to be back next year.

Mcdonald also said that the scheme evolves as needed to maximize player strengths. Combine that with this being his first time as the head coach (in general, assistants are at least to a certain extent adhering to a top-level vision from the head coach), and it seems unlikely that we have seen the iteration of the Macdonald defense that will be run in Seattle. Assuming that the scheme he ran in Baltimore or Michigan is the scheme he will run here seems misguided.

I expect that over the next few years, we will see Macdonald's defense evolve. That is the strength of this hire; Macdonald is a bright innovative defensive-minded coach who will structure the scheme to maximize player strengths (Gus Bradley did a great job of this, which is what set Dan Quinn up for success), and will evolve the scheme to keep up with the changing NFL landscape.

I am not saying BW will be here next year; however, if he is, I am guessing that he will be used much differently than how Hurtt used him. And, we might all be surprised at how effective a great player like BW is when his role matches his strengths. In the 2023 season, BWs had 81 pass rush snaps and 615 coverage snaps. I think the defense, and BW, would have been more effective if the pass rush snaps were significantly increased.

Watching footage of the Ravens' defense under Macdonald you will see several LBs up on the line in obvious passing downs showing blitz. On the snap a combination of LBs and D-line drop while a combination of LBs and D-line rush (those on here who bitch about D-line dropping into coverage may want to stick your head in a hole in the ground rather than watching film of modern NFL defenses). With the way Macdonald runs this, it is fun for me to imagine an LB like BW rushing the passer at a much higher rate than in 2023, and having reduced coverage responsibility when he is in coverage. More pass rush snaps, better disguising of who is dropping and who is blitzing, better disguising of the coverage, and reduced coverage responsibility seem like the perfect mix to maximize a great player and leader like BW.

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

I can see where they would move on from him, but I'm just not sure who they will get in the draft, given how little draft capital we have, that will be any better. Maybe a younger FA? They will need to clear some cap space if that's the case.

I believe we see John go full John in the draft and trade back a bunch to get more picks.

But I’ll reserve betting on this until after free agency.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Mcdonald also said that the scheme evolves as needed to maximize player strengths. Combine that with this being his first time as the head coach (in general, assistants are at least to a certain extent adhering to a top-level vision from the head coach), and it seems unlikely that we have seen the iteration of the Macdonald defense that will be run in Seattle. Assuming that the scheme he ran in Baltimore or Michigan is the scheme he will run here seems misguided.

I expect that over the next few years, we will see Macdonald's defense evolve. That is the strength of this hire; Macdonald is a bright innovative defensive-minded coach who will structure the scheme to maximize player strengths (Gus Bradley did a great job of this, which is what set Dan Quinn up for success), and will evolve the scheme to keep up with the changing NFL landscape.

I am not saying BW will be here next year; however, if he is, I am guessing that he will be used much differently than how Hurtt used him. And, we might all be surprised at how effective a great player like BW is when his role matches his strengths. In the 2023 season, BWs had 81 pass rush snaps and 615 coverage snaps. I think the defense, and BW, would have been more effective if the pass rush snaps were significantly increased.

Watching footage of the Ravens' defense under Macdonald you will see several LBs up on the line in obvious passing downs showing blitz. On the snap a combination of LBs and D-line drop while a combination of LBs and D-line rush (those on here who bitch about D-line dropping into coverage may want to stick your head in a hole in the ground rather than watching film of modern NFL defenses). With the way Macdonald runs this, it is fun for me to imagine an LB like BW rushing the passer at a much higher rate than in 2023, and having reduced coverage responsibility when he is in coverage. More pass rush snaps, better disguising of who is dropping and who is blitzing, better disguising of the coverage, and reduced coverage responsibility seem like the perfect mix to maximize a great player and leader like BW.

Maybe, I just think Macdonald's eager to put his stamp on this defense, and that usually means turning most of it over and bringing in younger players that fit his schemes and mold.

You're right though, one of the things most people have said about him is his ability to scheme to players strengths. Like he did with guys like Clowney, Queen, Van Noy, etc. All had career years.

 

[pittpnthrs]

wags is gone. LBs gotta be able to cover man, it's not optional.

Depends on if there's a decent FA available to replace him. I doubt a rookie drafted will fill the role and Brooks was a disaster when he was tasked at being the field general.

 

[kidhawk]

I just don’t understand those who think getting rid of Bobby makes the defense better. We have enough areas to fix without a lot of cap to get it done. You only get so many draft picks and only a few of those are going to be able to make a difference right away. Bobby played for $5.5 million last season and was one of only a few players who could actually make a tackle consistently. Is he the best at pass defense? No he’s not but there are ways to scheme around that. Bobby’s time is short but we need to keep him around to bridge the gap while we build up the weaker areas starting with getting offensive guards who can run block better.