Hawks ranked 15th/16 in NFC for 2022

[onanygivensunday]

I’m excited…more excited than I’ve been in the last several years. I’m anxious for next years draft. But if Im betting my house on it, Pete’s not going to see another playoff win during his tenure.

While your prediction may well be shown to be accurate, this year's draft and next year's is forming, and will continue to form the foundation for a return to the playoffs in 2024 and beyond.

 

[scutterhawk]

Uhhh…yah. Agree with Twisted here. Also, would’ve dumped Pete for Russ.

But, we have what we have. I do think we tore it up in the draft. If they did it once, they can do it again. Snag a QB next year.

I remember the Dallas Wildcard game. 13…13 times into a stacked box against what was arguably the NFLs best run defense that season. Some call that “philosophy”. I call it stubbornness.

I’m excited…more excited than I’ve been in the last several years. I’m anxious for next years draft. But if Im betting my house on it, Pete’s not going to see another playoff win during his tenure.

"Stacked Box" ran it 13 times because the Russell Wilson Magic was NONEXISTENT in that game
There've been COUNTLESS 3 & outs due to RUSS' holding onto the ball for too long, along with numerous failed pass attempts, and not just in the last couple seasons, I mean hey, MANY OTHER Quarterbacks in the League have had the SAME or even LESS time, & STILL got the ball out, because they weren't looking to make every play a Film Highlight Splash Play.
Way too many "Take What The Defenses Give You" plays left on the field= many undue 3 & outs & in the last few years, the "Time Of Possession" for the Seahawks Offense has been horrid + the Defense left hung out to dry because of it.
IF we're being honest, Wilson's most proficient ENDURING play was when he had Marshawn Lynch complimenting him out there...There were WAAAAY fewer 3 & outs.
Pete saw that as a Run setting up the Pass /// Pass setting up the Run & Defenses weren't able to just pin their ears back & stymie every move that the Quarterback was making.
The Rams Defense was specifically designed with SPEEDSTERS to counter Russell Wilson's 'Sand Lot' style of play.

 

[keasley45]

Apparently no one told the Denver Broncos how incredibly limited Russ is. Nor the Commanders or the Bears or any other team that would have loved to trade for him. The rest of the NFL most definitely does not look at Russ the way he is talked about by some on this board.

You are talking about franchises desperate to attain even respectability. The commandets signed wentz and are spinning him up like he'll be the answer.

Russ is a no lose proposition for a few years. Even if Denver doesn't make the a deep run, there will still be highlights galore. They'll be what he made us. A team you can never entirely put away because he's such an x factor off script. But one that won't win anything of significance unless Russ has a system around him to cover his weaknesses.

 

[toffee]

"Stacked Box" ran it 13 times because the Russell Wilson Magic was NONEXISTENT in that game
There've been COUNTLESS 3 & outs due to RUSS' holding onto the ball for too long, along with numerous failed pass attempts, and not just in the last couple seasons, I mean hey, MANY OTHER Quarterbacks in the League have had the SAME or even LESS time, & STILL got the ball out, because they weren't looking to make every play a Film Highlight Splash Play.
Way too many "Take What The Defenses Give You" plays left on the field= many undue 3 & outs & in the last few years, the "Time Of Possession" for the Seahawks Offense has been horrid + the Defense left hung out to dry because of it.
IF we're being honest, Wilson's most proficient ENDURING play was when he had Marshawn Lynch complimenting him out there...There were WAAAAY fewer 3 & outs.
Pete saw that as a Run setting up the Pass /// Pass setting up the Run & Defenses weren't able to just pin their ears back & stymie every move that the Quarterback was making.
The Rams Defense was specifically designed with SPEEDSTERS to counter Russell Wilson's 'Sand Lot' style of play.

Sounded like you were saying PeteBall was the solution to cover Russ' shortcomings and let his strength shine?

 

[scutterhawk]

Sounded like you were saying PeteBall was the solution to cover Russ' shortcomings and let his strength shine?

You're in the right neighborhood LOL.
A good RB compliments the hell out of ANY Quarterback out there.
Marshawn was a "PLUS" for Wilson, even the pass heavy teams need that extra facet to help put them over the top.
A LOT has been said about Wilson covering for a lot of the Offensive weaknesses, but it's seldom if ever brought up how much easier it was for Wilson when he had the BEAST back there with him, terrorizing the Defenses....Like, which would you rather get hit with, a Right Cross, or a Left Hook? LOLOL

 

[GemCity]

"Stacked Box" ran it 13 times because the Russell Wilson Magic was NONEXISTENT in that game
There've been COUNTLESS 3 & outs due to RUSS' holding onto the ball for too long, along with numerous failed pass attempts, and not just in the last couple seasons, I mean hey, MANY OTHER Quarterbacks in the League have had the SAME or even LESS time, & STILL got the ball out, because they weren't looking to make every play a Film Highlight Splash Play.
Way too many "Take What The Defenses Give You" plays left on the field= many undue 3 & outs & in the last few years, the "Time Of Possession" for the Seahawks Offense has been horrid + the Defense left hung out to dry because of it.
IF we're being honest, Wilson's most proficient ENDURING play was when he had Marshawn Lynch complimenting him out there...There were WAAAAY fewer 3 & outs.
Pete saw that as a Run setting up the Pass /// Pass setting up the Run & Defenses weren't able to just pin their ears back & stymie every move that the Quarterback was making.
The Rams Defense was specifically designed with SPEEDSTERS to counter Russell Wilson's 'Sand Lot' style of play.

105.9 rating with no INTs? Sacked once for 7 yards?

Dak had an 83.6 rating with an int. He was also sacked just once but, for 10 yards.

3rd down efficiency was bad but, so was the Cowboys.

Long story short…Dallas made adjustments and we didn’t. This game wasn’t on Russ man..

 

[scutterhawk]

105.9 rating with no INTs? Sacked once for 7 yards?

Dak had an 83.6 rating with an int. He was also sacked just once but, for 10 yards.

3rd down efficiency was bad but, so was the Cowboys.

Long story short…Dallas made adjustments and we didn’t. This game wasn’t on Russ man..

Except Wilson did not win that game....WHY NOT?
I mean, if he had a 105.9 QB Rating, & our Defense held Dak to an 83.6 rating, which sounds like the Seahawks Defense made enough adjustments, & did a better job on defending against Dak....EXCEPT, when all was said & done, Dak did a better job than Russ in the Three & Outs category, & did enough as the Cowboys QB to carry his team to the win, & Russ? Well, he didn't.
So EVERYONE gets the blame EXCEPT Wilson??
This is a case where getting a 105.9 STAT doesn't tell you the whole story about the down side of having too many 3 & outs...The Cowboys Defensive adjustments nullified that 105.9 STAT LINE.
Bottom Line Wilson not having the BETTER 3rd down efficiency and HOLDING ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG is why Dak & not Wilson won that Playoff game.

 

[keasley45]

105.9 rating with no INTs? Sacked once for 7 yards?

Dak had an 83.6 rating with an int. He was also sacked just once but, for 10 yards.

3rd down efficiency was bad but, so was the Cowboys.

Long story short…Dallas made adjustments and we didn’t. This game wasn’t on Russ man..

Russ's rating was 110 against Washington last year with zero picks and a TD. AND he was a significant reason why we lost.

With Russ, it's as much the things he doesn't do that could move the chains and extend drives as it is the great plays he pulls out of his butt.

In the past, when it was obvious that Russ wasn't doing things he should be (things that maybe aren't obvious on a telecast- like missing checks, missing reads, holding thing ball or hitting the wrong guy) and it was affecting our ability to hold the ball, i think the only strategy to shift to was to try to get control of the game again and dictate play to the defense the only way we could - running. I'm not saying that was the case every time but you could certainly see a solid example against WFT last year. We ran into stacked boxed but did so because Russ was missing plays everywhere. It was just more obvious in that game because his accuracy was also off. And yet in that game like sooo many others, the stats and rhythm of play would have you believe that we 'sucked' until Russ went 2 minute, scrambled for a chunck and scored an improbably TD to close out the game. But the reality was that he wasn't great and we weren't bad because we didn't let him cook. We were bad until we no longer asked him to run the playbook and he just created on his own.

You can't win anything worth winning that way. QbR will be outstanding, but that only tells part of the story.

 

[FrodosFinger]

It was unpopular because its silly. He took us to 2 super bowls and we were constantly a top team in the NFC. That didn't happen till Russ got here. The downgrade in play on this team is directly related to a LOT of very poor front office moves. Whether it was spending millions on washed up cast off first rounders or constantly trading our first and second round picks away for players who were either malcontents or ill fits for our team. Or our very poor drafts the last ten years.
That was the cause of this teams decline not Russ.

On the contrary Schneider has had the best draft value, given the position of drafting, over the past decade bar none. We won games because of the defense and running game which complimented Wilson’s shortcomings early on. How many playoff games did Wilson win without the LOB? I’ll wait

 

[keasley45]

It was unpopular because its silly. He took us to 2 super bowls and we were constantly a top team in the NFC. That didn't happen till Russ got here. The downgrade in play on this team is directly related to a LOT of very poor front office moves. Whether it was spending millions on washed up cast off first rounders or constantly trading our first and second round picks away for players who were either malcontents or ill fits for our team. Or our very poor drafts the last ten years.
That was the cause of this teams decline not Russ.

Carried us to two superbowls? Ever heard of revisionist history? Russ began to show the cracks that plagued him throughout his career even as early as 2014. But don't take my word for it. There's an article in Bleacher Report devoted to what became his chronic flaws.

Breaking Down Russell Wilson's Struggles During the NFC Championship Game.​

From Jan 2014... not the game vs GB

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...les-during-the-nfc-championship-game.amp.html

He almost kept us from two superbowls. That article is about how poorly Wilson finished the season and played in the lead-up to our first super bowl win, and what happened the following year in the NFC CG is obvious. 2 yards rushing, 12 yards passing, 2 ints - those were his first half stats. He added 2 more ints in the 2nd half before it was over. Russ has always had problems against better defenses. And better defenses are what you get in the playoffs.

Russ played solid ball and sometimes spectacular ball during our runs when he was actually incorporating running into his game. But no one at the time credited him with carrying us anywhere. The consensus league wide was that this team was Lynch, the LOB, and Russ, a game managing qb with pedestrian wrs who had a penchant for spectacular play.

But a defense who led the league in points scored, despite an offense that was middle of the pack and significantly stronger running than passing is what carried us to two title appearances.

 

[Natethegreat]

On the contrary Schneider has had the best draft value, given the position of drafting, over the past decade bar none. We won games because of the defense and running game which complimented Wilson’s shortcomings early on. How many playoff games did Wilson win without the LOB? I’ll waiBarrinf the the drafts w

Only because of the draft that had Russ, Sherm, Kam etc in them. After those couple drafts the rest have been underperforming which was my point that the drafts after their first few years have been poor. Their free agent acquisitions have been poor. Their trades have been poor to horrendous with the exception of Brown.
So yes Russ was such an incredible draft value that it lifts a very poor stretch of drafting to above average because of the first couple drafts. You exclude them and its below average and there is no way you can argue they haven't been making a lot of picks that were reaches by most everyones standards.
Sort of like Bill Belichecks drafts in recent memory. He reaches constantly as well and they rarely work out. They are bad drafts but he had Tom Brady and he is a really good coach so he was still able to win. I bet he won't this year though. The team is beginning to feel all those draft misses and reaches. Even with an all time coach.

 

[Natethegreat]

What is very clear is we have a few posters here that are big but hurt that Russ saw what was pretty plain to see. The Front office was making poor moves all around as this team got worse and worse. Petes reset didn't work and it was clear. Our D has been bad for years now (even while receiving the majority of the overall cap space) while our offense was always top ten.
We finally decided to move on from Ken Norton 3 years too late and we had a draft that wasn't filled with reaches for the first time in a while so those are positives for me.
I'm ecstatic we drafted not one but 2 tackles that can actually pass block after drafting road graders that struggled mightily at pass blocking the entire time Russ was here. Which may have contributed to his frustration understandably.
The attempts by some here to paint Russ as a poor QB are quite frankly absurd non sense.

Edit: by the way Keasley I never said Russ carried this team to the super bowl. We had a great D and run game. However, this team wasn't good until we got Russ period. To discount his part in leading this team to those super bowls is revisionist history not the other way around. Again I'm not saying he carried this team but we wouldn't have been there without him either.

 

[keasley45]

What is very clear is we have a few posters here that are big but hurt that Russ saw what was pretty plain to see. The Front office was making poor moves all around as this team got worse and worse. Petes reset didn't work and it was clear. Our D has been bad for years now (even while receiving the majority of the overall cap space) while our offense was always top ten.
We finally decided to move on from Ken Norton 3 years too late and we had a draft that wasn't filled with reaches for the first time in a while so those are positives for me.
I'm ecstatic we drafted not one but 2 tackles that can actually pass block after drafting road graders that struggled mightily at pass blocking the entire time Russ was here. Which may have contributed to his frustration understandably.
The attempts by some here to paint Russ as a poor QB are quite frankly absurd non sense.

Edit: by the way Keasley I never said Russ carried this team to the super bowl. We had a great D and run game. However, this team wasn't good until we got Russ period. To discount his part in leading this team to those super bowls is revisionist history not the other way around. Again I'm not saying he carried this team but we wouldn't have been there without him either.

We also never won anything with Michael Robinson. So....

The belief that Russ made Pete, or insinuation through statements like the one you made is what I'm relating to. Pete built tbis whole thing. Including Russ, and made Russ work here.its just that he and some fans are butt hurt that when Russ showed in big games against savvy defenses that his limits were liabilities, Pete took control as a leader should and did the only thing he could, short of bringing in another qb. He ran the ball to help Russ, not to squash him.

The FO and posters here are hurt that Russ 'rejected' Seattle? RUSS was hurt that the FO saw his ceiling 4 years ago and entertained the idea of bringing in another top talent to challenge Russ or maybe even replace him. RUSS WAS UPSET about that and never recovered, resorting to the tantrums we've seen over the last few years. He could have instead worked on improving his game. Instead, he went full PR mode and made the team the problem so ghat he could beat them to the punch and control the narrative.
That he was doing that prior to his meltdown that offseason was also speculated upon in an Athletic article by some in the league who knew Russ to not take criticism well.

It should be that hindsight is 2020. Guess some will need a couple of season to see what went down here.

 

[scutterhawk]

What is very clear is we have a few posters here that are big but hurt that Russ saw what was pretty plain to see. The Front office was making poor moves all around as this team got worse and worse. Petes reset didn't work and it was clear. Our D has been bad for years now (even while receiving the majority of the overall cap space) while our offense was always top ten.
We finally decided to move on from Ken Norton 3 years too late and we had a draft that wasn't filled with reaches for the first time in a while so those are positives for me.
I'm ecstatic we drafted not one but 2 tackles that can actually pass block after drafting road graders that struggled mightily at pass blocking the entire time Russ was here. Which may have contributed to his frustration understandably.
The attempts by some here to paint Russ as a poor QB are quite frankly absurd non sense.

Edit: by the way Keasley I never said Russ carried this team to the super bowl. We had a great D and run game. However, this team wasn't good until we got Russ period. To discount his part in leading this team to those super bowls is revisionist history not the other way around. Again I'm not saying he carried this team but we wouldn't have been there without him either.

No, "What is very clear is that we have a few posters that are" A BIT "BUTT HURT" that he's sucking up undue credit, and getting shuck of any of his misfires & weaknesses.
And another thing that's Very Clear, is that we have Posters in here that are MAKING ABSURD NON SENSE EXCUSES for Russ' "Misfires & Weaknesses".
Wilson was a FANTASTIC Quarterback, WHO HAD HIS SHARE OF WEAKNESSES.
I constantly pulled for him, and even bought his jersey, BUT when it comes to laying the blame for >>HIS<< MISTAKES and or SHORTCOMINGS onto everybody else?? NOPE.
Another thing, at one time, Marshawn 'The Beast' Lynch played a BIG part in HELPING the Seahawks Offense to form their 'Kick-Ass' IDENTITY.
The fact that we went through Bevell, Schotts, & Waldren, & Wilson couldn't make the adjustments needed, couldn't speed read UPPER TIER DEFENSES, and wouldn't get the ball out, because he was too set on making highlight reel plays, wouldn't take some easier check-down shots to keep the chains moving.
FACT: I still love the guy, & wish him well, but I won't lie, or make excuses for the downsides to his playing style.

 

[GemCity]

There’s so many more things that could be said but there’s a specific crowd here that puts the blame on Russ no matter what you come back with.
Stats? I get it…so and so had a 110 rating with no INTs and they still lost because of so and so. Ok… fine.

Take Russ out of that Dallas game. Let’s say it’s Drew Lock. Are you not going to audible out of a dive when there’s nine in the box or no? Novice Madden players even know how to do this.

But that’s on Russ too isn’t it? Wrong. It’s called stubbornness. Not going for it on 4th and 1 when you’re past the 40 is stubborn (and deflating).

Again…loved the draft. Still excited. Looking for a QB next year. Futures bright. If Pete’s as incredible as people here make him out to be, we should be competitive this season and on our way into the playoffs the next.

Not happening.

 

[toffee]

No, "What is very clear is that we have a few posters that are" A BIT "BUTT HURT" that he's sucking up undue credit, and getting shuck of any of his misfires & weaknesses.
And another thing that's Very Clear, is that we have Posters in here that are MAKING ABSURD NON SENSE EXCUSES for Russ' "Misfires & Weaknesses".
Wilson was a FANTASTIC Quarterback, WHO HAD HIS SHARE OF WEAKNESSES.
I constantly pulled for him, and even bought his jersey, BUT when it comes to laying the blame for >>HIS<< MISTAKES and or SHORTCOMINGS onto everybody else?? NOPE.
Another thing, at one time, Marshawn 'The Beast' Lynch played a BIG part in HELPING the Seahawks Offense to form their 'Kick-Ass' IDENTITY.
The fact that we went through Bevell, Schotts, & Waldren, & Wilson couldn't make the adjustments needed, couldn't speed read UPPER TIER DEFENSES, and wouldn't get the ball out, because he was too set on making highlight reel plays, wouldn't take some easier check-down shots to keep the chains moving.
FACT: I still love the guy, & wish him well, but I won't lie, or make excuses for the downsides to his playing style.

BUT BUT BUT, 12s must also consider the view from Mr. Unlimited:

If he kept making lay-ups as called for by Kurt Warner, and won a few more games, but all in the unspeculative manner. He would be labelled at best a system QB, or a game manager. Do you know how much it hurts and limits his brand? Would NFL commissioner sat with a game manager at superbowl? Would national media talking heads focus on him instead of more important games? Could he be a NFL team owner? Could he run for president as a game manager? NO NO and NO.

The gameplan was perfect, if the team couldn't win, it's the defense, the OL, Pete's outdated philosophy, when the team wins, it's Mr. Unlimited putted a S on his chest to rescue the team from the defense, the OL, and Pete's outdated philosophy.

I am totally in awe of how Russ managed his brand, always making sure the stats are great, stats over wins as not winning is Pete's faults. Stats are gold, if not diamond. Russ will make a perfect president, even match President Trump.

 

[Natethegreat]

BUT BUT BUT, 12s must also consider the view from Mr. Unlimited:

If he kept making lay-ups as called for by Kurt Warner, and won a few more games, but all in the unspeculative manner. He would be labelled at best a system QB, or a game manager. Do you know how much it hurts and limits his brand? Would NFL commissioner sat with a game manager at superbowl? Would national media talking heads focus on him instead of more important games? Could he be a NFL team owner? Could he run for president as a game manager? NO NO and NO.

The gameplan was perfect, if the team couldn't win, it's the defense, the OL, Pete's outdated philosophy, when the team wins, it's Mr. Unlimited putted a S on his chest to rescue the team from the defense, the OL, and Pete's outdated philosophy.

I am totally in awe of how Russ managed his brand, always making sure the stats are great, stats over wins as not winning is Pete's faults. Stats are gold, if not diamond. Russ will make a perfect president, even match President Trump.

On what are you basing Russ as a stats over wins guy? All he has ever been about was winning. Its also all he ever did here as well. The most successful period of Seahawks football by a long long shot. The offense was always top ten as well. Usually top 5. Something the D hasn't been able to say for a good long while. I wonder why? Maybe some poor moves along the way possibly?
The vitriol towards Russ here lately is mind boggling.

 

[toffee]

On what are you basing Russ as a stats over wins guy? All he has ever been about was winning. Its also all he ever did here as well. The most successful period of Seahawks football by a long long shot. The offense was always top ten as well. Usually top 5. Something the D hasn't been able to say for a good long while. I wonder why? Maybe some poor moves along the way possibly?
The vitriol towards Russ here lately is mind boggling.

He talked all about winning, as winning the media war, winning the stats, winning for his brand.

 

[PlinytheCenter]

Hey, if Pete can repeat the magic - everyone will be thrilled.
The question is whether an aging HC who used to be terrible at gameday play calling but incredible at player development, terrible at hiring coordinators but incredible at defense, and terrible at strategic positioning but incredible at motivation - can now be effective given he is still terrible at those things, but now also middling to poor at player development & defense. It does not help that his reputation as a motivator is taking a hit as well.
So what is left?
If Pete is in a cognitive decline, and sure looks like he lost a few rungs on his ladder already, then there isn't much to hitch the wagon to.

If you think Pete is in cognitive decline, there are more obvious examples readily available for examination and discussion. Beyond that, I think the Hawks will rebound; not this year but next. GO HAWKS!

 

[Death]

We've had some great seasons the past decade and more, so some down time is not the end of the world; to me at least. If our QB(Whoever that may be) plays even half ass I think we will be far from the worst team. Playoffs probably out of range, but see no reason can't have a decent enough season.

Good times will be back.