Hawks ranked 15th/16 in NFC for 2022

[toffee]

Post draft power tanking for the Hawks, we are 15th in NFC, only ahead of the Falcons. We have nowhere to go but UP! or we will be guarantee top 5 picks next draft?

 

[JayhawkMike]

I think they overrated us.

 

[keasley45]

They said the same Bs when Pete was announced as coach and proceeded to strip the roster bare. They said he was a cheat, foolish, outdated. Out of touch, and his team, with a roster full of players no one else saw value in, would be garbage.

We were rated similarly when in Pete's first year, we were supposed to be pushovers.

We were the laughing stock of the league when we were 'gifted ' a playoff birth and disgraced the Saints by making then come to our house during wildcard week... where we beat the sh!+ out of them.

All the talk heading into our suoerbowl against Mannings Broncos was about how no defense could realistically expect to keep up with Peyton the great... we were a cute story, but it was Pete and his defense against Manning. No chance.

The following year, it was Brady we wouldn't be able to beat. And were it not for our last play from scrimmage, we would have, and likely written a much different future over the years that would come.

The shadow of that period is over, the greatness, but also the curse... the fallout.

And so here we are again. Right where we are most comfortable. Let them talk. But shame on you if you beleive it.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Hey, if Pete can repeat the magic - everyone will be thrilled.
The question is whether an aging HC who used to be terrible at gameday play calling but incredible at player development, terrible at hiring coordinators but incredible at defense, and terrible at strategic positioning but incredible at motivation - can now be effective given he is still terrible at those things, but now also middling to poor at player development & defense. It does not help that his reputation as a motivator is taking a hit as well.
So what is left?
If Pete is in a cognitive decline, and sure looks like he lost a few rungs on his ladder already, then there isn't much to hitch the wagon to.

 

[keasley45]

Hey, if Pete can repeat the magic - everyone will be thrilled.
The question is whether an aging HC who used to be terrible at gameday play calling but incredible at player development, terrible at hiring coordinators but incredible at defense, and terrible at strategic positioning but incredible at motivation - can now be effective given he is still terrible at those things, but now also middling to poor at player development & defense. It does not help that his reputation as a motivator is taking a hit as well.
So what is left?
If Pete is in a cognitive decline, and sure looks like he lost a few rungs on his ladder already, then there isn't much to hitch the wagon to.

Can you give am example of being terrible at GameDay gameplanning?

 

[Appyhawk]

I gotta question the methodology used to produce those rankings. It will be interesting to see, after the year is over, how accurate they are. I think Hawks are gonna surprise a lot of folks who buy into those rankings.

 

[toffee]

One thing for sure, Pete and John are motivated by these type of slights, the rating of our drafts, and the ranking of our next season. Pete like to draft or sign players with chips on their shoulders, one have to assume that he is the same way. For sure we have holes on our roster, for sure we are going to experience lots of growing pain from new systems to new coaches.

Call me a homer, but I am sure that we will have the last laugh on these 'experts', we always have and we always will.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Hey, if Pete can repeat the magic - everyone will be thrilled.
The question is whether an aging HC who used to be terrible at gameday play calling but incredible at player development, terrible at hiring coordinators but incredible at defense, and terrible at strategic positioning but incredible at motivation - can now be effective given he is still terrible at those things, but now also middling to poor at player development & defense. It does not help that his reputation as a motivator is taking a hit as well.
So what is left?
If Pete is in a cognitive decline, and sure looks like he lost a few rungs on his ladder already, then there isn't much to hitch the wagon to.

 

[Scout]

Just in the NFC I do not see how the Panthers, Giants, Lions, Vikings, or Bears are better off than the Hawks or the Falcons. The Falcons have invested a lot of large bodied skill players on offense while adding more weapons on defense for D. Pees. The Falcons were the least talented roster in the NFL last year and they won 7 games.... Their record was better than the Bears, Panthers, Giants and Lions.

Also, I think the Vikings take a step back because a first year head coach is going to have a hard time putting things together with that roster.

So from my point of view I view the Hawks doing better than the Panthers, Giants, Lions and possibly Vikings. The Vikings have the talent on offense to compete with any team in the NFL if their potential is unlocked, but that defense is still going to be a huge question mark.

I view the Falcons and Seahawks as middle of the road teams along with the Saints, Washington and the Vikings. I do not see the Falcons or Seahawks as the bottom two teams in the NFC in this upcoming season.

 

[Donn2390]

Hey, if Pete can repeat the magic - everyone will be thrilled.
The question is whether an aging HC who used to be terrible at gameday play calling but incredible at player development, terrible at hiring coordinators but incredible at defense, and terrible at strategic positioning but incredible at motivation - can now be effective given he is still terrible at those things, but now also middling to poor at player development & defense. It does not help that his reputation as a motivator is taking a hit as well.
So what is left?
If Pete is in a cognitive decline, and sure looks like he lost a few rungs on his ladder already, then there isn't much to hitch the wagon to.

You are definitely a TwistedHusky, and NOT in a good way...!!!!

 

[BASF]

Is anyone really surprised with ranking the Seahawks towards the bottom?

I am very excited for this upcoming season, but we need to be realistic with what we are going into.

We will have a new offensive system since I will throw the routes I want to throw did not run the system last season.

We will have at least two new starters on the offensive line, and more than likely three.

That offensive line will more than likely struggle to gel for at least the first five or six games considering the league rules of contact during the offseason.

The running game is going to rely on an oft injured running back and a rookie (I have already said that I love the Walker pick and that I think he is going to be great, but it is still a question mark).

We have a lot of receiving options, but to call our QB situation a question mark is a bit of an understatement (I enjoyed seeing Smith throwing to all parts of the field in a few of his drives with his rust, but with people able to game plan him, will he be able to produce better results, though I do believe Lock will beat him out, he is also a question mark)

We are installing a new defensive scheme.

Both of our starting safeties and one of their backups are coming back from major injuries.

We let our defensive leader go, so who is going to step into that role and how well will they perform is a question mark.

I have no problem being optimistic that most of the question marks will go in our favor, however can you blame anyone who does not? There are a lot of examples of our personnel decisions not going in our favor.

 

[toffee]

Is anyone really surprised with ranking the Seahawks towards the bottom?

I am very excited for this upcoming season, but we need to be realistic with what we are going into.

We will have a new offensive system since I will throw the routes I want to throw did not run the system last season.

We will have at least two new starters on the offensive line, and more than likely three.

That offensive line will more than likely struggle to gel for at least the first five or six games considering the league rules of contact during the offseason.

The running game is going to rely on an oft injured running back and a rookie (I have already said that I love the Walker pick and that I think he is going to be great, but it is still a question mark).

We have a lot of receiving options, but to call our QB situation a question mark is a bit of an understatement (I enjoyed seeing Smith throwing to all parts of the field in a few of his drives with his rust, but with people able to game plan him, will he be able to produce better results, though I do believe Lock will beat him out, he is also a question mark)

We are installing a new defensive scheme.

Both of our starting safeties and one of their backups are coming back from major injuries.

We let our defensive leader go, so who is going to step into that role and how well will they perform is a question mark.

I have no problem being optimistic that most of the question marks will go in our favor, however can you blame anyone who does not? There are a lot of examples of our personnel decisions not going in our favor.

Well said and agree!

 

[WmHBonney]

I think we're better than or equal to Arizona, Washington, Giants, Detroit, Chicago, Carolina, Atlanta. Yes, on paper Arizona looks better. However, they are a dumpster fire with all of the bullshit going on with their QB. He is not a leader. He is a whiny little man.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meh, who gives a rip what the media says?

 

[scutterhawk]

Can you give am example of being terrible at GameDay gameplanning?

He's going to Cherry Pick a game that we lost, and offer that up as proof LOLOLOLOL that's all he can do.
He'll avoid the games where he BESTED some of the top HC's in the League, as that wouldn't support his lame claim, that the game has evolved beyond Pete's understanding...Twist has conjured in his mind, and now KNOWS & UNDERSTANDS how to compete in todays NFL.
For him? there is no wrong comeback answer.

 

[GemCity]

Well said and agree!

Ditto

 

[TwistedHusky]

Some of you are hilarious.

At this point, if you haven't seen the issues with Pete (issues that followed him since USC) - not sure what to tell you since you obviously aren't watching the games.

Pete himself literally tells you that he 'does not like to' adjust his approach to the opponent (which is code for having a predilection against it). This is how you get games like the Dallas playoff game or the Rams playoff game (at home).

He does not adjust for the strength and weaknesses of the team. He uses base defenses regularly - which results in linebackers trying to cover WRs. He runs the ball into loaded boxes. Hell, he barely even accounts for his own team...we were running the ball up the middle with guys like Homer and DJ...for 1-2 yds a carry.

He is terrible at adjustments at the half. Whereas the other team generally shuts down what is working for us after halftime.
If you cannot honestly acknowledge his weaknesses, THAT HE ADMITS TO, then discourse is pointless because you are either oblivious or incapable. Maybe deluded? no idea.

Didn't you watch the press conference where Pete admitted his defensive approach was 'arrogant'? HE PRETTY MUCH TOLD YOU HE WASN'T EVEN FACTORING IN THE OPPONENTS. What kind of gameday planning does not adjust to the opponent? Garbage planning.
(You watched these games and did not see it? Seriously?)

The problem isn't the weaknesses which should be obvious by now, it is that the strengths he used to have that offset them no longer appear to be in existence. Which means he has little to no value anymore.

What else do you call a defensively-minded HC running teams with some of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL?

 

[keasley45]

Some of you are hilarious.

At this point, if you haven't seen the issues with Pete (issues that followed him since USC) - not sure what to tell you since you obviously aren't watching the games.

Pete himself literally tells you that he 'does not like to' adjust his approach to the opponent (which is code for having a predilection against it). This is how you get games like the Dallas playoff game or the Rams playoff game (at home).

He does not adjust for the strength and weaknesses of the team. He uses base defenses regularly - which results in linebackers trying to cover WRs. He runs the ball into loaded boxes. Hell, he barely even accounts for his own team...we were running the ball up the middle with guys like Homer and DJ...for 1-2 yds a carry.

He is terrible at adjustments at the half. Whereas the other team generally shuts down what is working for us after halftime.
If you cannot honestly acknowledge his weaknesses, THAT HE ADMITS TO, then discourse is pointless because you are either oblivious or incapable. Maybe deluded? no idea.

Didn't you watch the press conference where Pete admitted his defensive approach was 'arrogant'? HE PRETTY MUCH TOLD YOU HE WASN'T EVEN FACTORING IN THE OPPONENTS. What kind of gameday planning does not adjust to the opponent? Garbage planning.
(You watched these games and did not see it? Seriously?)

The problem isn't the weaknesses which should be obvious by now, it is that the strengths he used to have that offset them no longer appear to be in existence. Which means he has little to no value anymore.

What else do you call a defensively-minded HC running teams with some of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL?

This is akin to the twisted interpretation of 'you can't win until the 4th qtr' that j63 goes on about as proof that Pete doesn't like to win convincingly.

Pete leads with a phosophy premised on the belief that if the team is prepared and has the pieces it needs to compete, that the only opponent they really have is themselves. It doesn't matter what the opponent does. At the end of the day, the energy spent perfecting what you do is a better investment of time , than trying to constantly figure out what an opponent is doing.

It's a philosophy that transcends sport and leverages unity, spirit, and those intangible aspects of competition that often are the demise of more talented teams. And our team has on countless occassions gone toe to toe and beaten teams that on paper, we shouldn't have.

There's no flaw in that philosophy. Pete's fault was putting too much faith in players and coaches who were underperforming... regardless of how important the position.

It's in the refusal to logically assign responsibilitfor some players responsibility for our failure that it's possible to fall into the binary it's x persons fault or y persons fault. That, or just not wanting to understand the complexity of the game .

But a team that doesn't adjust, isn't one that i think still leads the league in lowest point differential in losses over the last decade.

I also think this, stuck in the mud team, is the same one that is also a leader in the league in outscoring opponents in the 2nd half. But, if you subscribe to the belief that the only reason we were so good at holding opponents points scored down as the game progressed and scoring more points was because we had #3... well then, yeah, the FO, HC and entire team is a dumpster fire.

As to the comment about a defensive coach running a team with two of the worst defenses in league history. Last year that defense, as flawed as it was in spots, also finished top 10 in scoring. A feat I believe no other in NFL history had accomplished. And the defense the prior years also flawed, experienced one of the most drastic turnarounds in league history from the first half if the season to the 2nd half.

And both of those feats were accomplished despite having a league worst offense in TOP and 3rd down conversion that couldn't stay on the field if they were literally strapped to the turf. But again, that would mean assigning some blame for the performance of the team to #3. And we can't do that...

 

[TwistedHusky]

It is an arrogant philosophy that does not work. And it is lazy gameplanning.
He admitted to that in his conference.
Your defense that 'he doesn't need to plan for the other team because he relies on the players' is nonsensical.
Every team has strengths and weaknesses. And every approach has a counter that exploits it.
If you fail to account for this, you get defenses passing up the middle or constantly taking advantage of passes to their TE.
You get running up the middle into loaded boxes in a playoff game.
You pretty much acknowledged that his plan is the lack of a plan, because he sucks at it.
I get the philosophy. It works when you have a team flush with HOF players, simplify the game, let them react and make plays. But it is stupid with almost any other roster.
Because the other team has a plan. And if you do not account for it, they will do what is working (ie exploit you) and adjust away from what is not (ie stop what you are exploiting).

PS it sounds like his philosophy is not to adjust for the other team. Which means the plan likely does not either, and THAT is almost a flawed gameplan by definition.











(Not even going to bother with your defense of our defense, those #s are the result of us focusing on limiting opposing possessions, and bleeding the clock, while also allowing the opposing offense to march methodically up the field but take time off the clock. They weren't great at stops, they were just easy to walk slowly up the field on. It did not help us. It actually hurt us)

 

[toffee]

Some of you are hilarious.

At this point, if you haven't seen the issues with Pete (issues that followed him since USC) - not sure what to tell you since you obviously aren't watching the games.

Pete himself literally tells you that he 'does not like to' adjust his approach to the opponent (which is code for having a predilection against it). This is how you get games like the Dallas playoff game or the Rams playoff game (at home).

He does not adjust for the strength and weaknesses of the team. He uses base defenses regularly - which results in linebackers trying to cover WRs. He runs the ball into loaded boxes. Hell, he barely even accounts for his own team...we were running the ball up the middle with guys like Homer and DJ...for 1-2 yds a carry.

He is terrible at adjustments at the half. Whereas the other team generally shuts down what is working for us after halftime.
If you cannot honestly acknowledge his weaknesses, THAT HE ADMITS TO, then discourse is pointless because you are either oblivious or incapable. Maybe deluded? no idea.

Didn't you watch the press conference where Pete admitted his defensive approach was 'arrogant'? HE PRETTY MUCH TOLD YOU HE WASN'T EVEN FACTORING IN THE OPPONENTS. What kind of gameday planning does not adjust to the opponent? Garbage planning.
(You watched these games and did not see it? Seriously?)

The problem isn't the weaknesses which should be obvious by now, it is that the strengths he used to have that offset them no longer appear to be in existence. Which means he has little to no value anymore.

What else do you call a defensively-minded HC running teams with some of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL?

That is like Tesla has a lousy product development policy because they aren't making adjustment to install better catalytic converters.