#Free Russell

[LTH]

Seattle's offense is the worst in the league during the scripted first 15 plays. I know this probably doesn't surprise anyone.

But Pete's play it safe mentality is putting his team in a hole, that his QB then has to get him out of in the 2nd half.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1176561939197169670[/tweet]

Russell Wilson had completed 13 of 14 passes at the half. So he was following and executing this garbage ass gameplan. The problem was, it was garbage.


After the disaster this week I expect Pete to double down and go uber conservative this week. He is going to heavily emphasize his "philosophy". It's against AZ so he should get away with it, and the team will win the game, but I expect super-duper ugly.

It's a waste of time to play this style as they cannot afford to play it against playoff teams, or it will be an automatic L.

Here is the thing. When playing this style, if they just make a couple mistakes, they could easily lose. This style gives no margin for error. He doesn't seem to realize he doesn't have the #1 scoring defense anymore.

#Free Russell.

OK... Im not convinced...Is it just the QB getting him out of a jam?
Maybe it's good second half adjustments?
Maybe they have the O dialed down for a reason that they are not saying?
maybe the O is playing to its capacity that pete thinks is appropriate
The're 2-1 with a dialed down O most thought they would be 1-2 at this point...
Maybe they will go 2-3 or 4-7 or worse before the team starts to catch its stride then maybe Pete will open it up and go on a 6-7 game win streak...

These are my thoughts I've learned to be patient because I think its all a progression... the team is finding its identity now and some times thats hard for the fans but we have all watched this before...

LTH

 

[Fade]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1177653179619696640[/tweet]

#Free Russell

 

[chris98251]

I don't think it's antiquated, I don't think he or Schotty scripts the first 15 plays badly, I do think when they script and find a avenue that works they for go using it and continue the scripts and then never go back to what worked many time to exploit something and get a good lead.

Also the number of plays scripted we have read can continue well into the 2nd quarter. That's a long time to be trying to figure out what to use in the second half basically.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The Seahawks offense has problems, Russell Wilson isn't one of them. In fact he has been masking their problems for years.

Oh this is such a BS statement. Seattle didn't have a run game AT ALL for two years, 2016-2017. If the team doesn't have even an adequate run game, you get zoned in on as the QB.

Prior to that, in 2015, we had the exact kind of offense you want, pass-first.

Prior to that, we were in the Super Bowl.

That leaves 2018, where we made the playoffs and lost partially because we deviated from the balance we'd found all regular season, and partially because we forgot how to tackle on defense at a crucial time.

We went to the Super Bowl because we were stacked with talent. We've fallen short since because we've lost a great deal of that talent and haven't adequately replaced it.

These annoying talking heads on Twitter just want the love of pundits and bloggers for their team. They've seen the slack-jawed fascination that SportsCenter always had for the (surprisingly decode-able) Rams play-action offense and they want it for themselves.

 

[John63]

Russell Wilson is not the kind of QB that’s gonna carry you with his arm. He’s still largely an opportunistic QB - piling up stats in prevent defense (as the case against NO), or throwing bombs when the running game draws the defense in. That’s why his stats are so good. He’ll never be the kind of pocket QB you want him to be. Seattle found success again by running and playing good defense.

Wrong.

He is the best 4th quarter QB of all-time, and the Seahawks are rarely ever in the position of playing in garbage time to face prevent defenses. He finally had a chance last week, but it hardly ever comes up.

Russell threw the ball what, 50 times on Sunday? Loss.

Russell also threw the ball the first two games last year in Chicago and Denver when Schotty and Pete admitted that they threw it too much. Loss and Loss.

You guys hyper fixate on "taking the reins off Russell." When in reality what you really are saying is stop being so run predictable in the first halves of games and be my dynamic with the playcalling so Russell CAN do more in that respect.

So it's not so much "just let Russell throw it more." It's;

- be more dynamic in playcalling
- stop being so predictable in first halves of game with conservative establish the run schemes
- Give Russell and Schotty more freedom pre and in game for adjustments and playcalling

Those are the sorts of things Pete needs to change his ways on, not just we want Russell to throw it 40-50 times a game. That doesn't work.

Well said Sarge. Hawks are 2-11 I believe I read when Russ throws 40+ times. Just proves balance is most effective.

Actually no it proves we wait to long to adjust. You will find in the games we throw 40+ most of the throws come late 3rd and 4th qtr, this means we are behind. Alot
If we started throwing more in the beginning may e we could so something new, like play with a lead. A big lead.

 

[John63]

You can't free Russ Wilson, in the second half we where down 27 to 7 the only time we ran the ball is when Russ had too. This is Dangeruss and he will get hurt at some point.
Every winning Superbowl team has a good solid running game, Beast mode..... A good running game is a QB's best friend.
How long can you get away with throw the ball 50 times a game before teams start blitzing you so much that Russ will be like chalk and he will have to be swept-up to be removed from the field. Its just not a smart way to run a railroad.

:229031_cheers:

Ahh noone is saying dont run, or always throw 50 times.
Whe we are saying is let's not wait till the 4th qtr to let things loose. why cant qw throw more earlier and run later to run out the clock. Since we are not running it well now. Why not pass to set up the run.

 

[John63]

Causation vs Correlation. Wilson isn't allowed to throw the ball unless they are losing.

Again guys check the data

#Free Russell

This is not true at all, and none of the graphs and Tweets prove any of this. Our first drive against NO was all passes.......and check any box score over the past two years, it's definitely more runs, but it's also definitely not Russell only throws if we're losing.

This is about balance and being dynamic and unpredictable with our schemes and playcalling. It's not just about Russell coming out and throwing it 25 straight times.

Ask Aaron Rodgers and other elite QB's how that works. It not only leads to losses, but usually them getting hurt when they drop back and take hits. Hell, that's especially true here with our terrible O-line's pass pro.

Russell wouldn't make it two games if Pete just allowed him to chuck it all over the yard and not try to establish some balance.

I hate that we're so predictable and conservative in first halves. So that part I'm in 100% agreement. But #FreeRussell meaning allow this to become some sort of pass oriented offense like KC or elsewhere? Sorry, but that's not something you can turn on or off like a light switch.

It takes YEARS of drafting and developing the right players to fit around that style of offense........including hiring the right coaches to implement and install it.

A lot of conjecture no fact, he would not make it 2 games chucking it all over and yet he has. Once again. I one is saying throw.it t0 times, we are saying stop waiting so long. Aa to the NO games ues he threw at the beginning. However the plays called we behing the LOS and were glorified handoffs, let's not pretend other wise.

 

[Elemas]

The philosophy has worked for the most part. It was mentioned that in comparison, sans the Pat's, the Hawks have done pretty damn well.

Efficiency is a great buzzword.

But, what is really the argument here? Past performance as the baseline that the system works? RWs efficiency?

We don't utilize RW to his full potential (duh). W-L record? Bail outs in close games? The team is oftentimes successful primarily because HE makes it happen. How many nail biters in the 4th against teams like,....let's say Cincinnati.

It's downright contradictory to have re-signed him for that amount of money so that he can be on the path to have the lowest pass attempts per game (2018).

#Free Russell

 

[Fade]

The Seahawks offense has problems, Russell Wilson isn't one of them. In fact he has been masking their problems for years.

Oh this is such a BS statement. Seattle didn't have a run game AT ALL for two years, 2016-2017. If the team doesn't have even an adequate run game, you get zoned in on as the QB.

Prior to that, in 2015, we had the exact kind of offense you want, pass-first.

Prior to that, we were in the Super Bowl.

That leaves 2018, where we made the playoffs and lost partially because we deviated from the balance we'd found all regular season, and partially because we forgot how to tackle on defense at a crucial time.

We went to the Super Bowl because we were stacked with talent. We've fallen short since because we've lost a great deal of that talent and haven't adequately replaced it.

These annoying talking heads on Twitter just want the love of pundits and bloggers for their team. They've seen the slack-jawed fascination that SportsCenter always had for the (surprisingly decode-able) Rams play-action offense and they want it for themselves.

?????

What are you going on about?

This discussion is about the offense, and how they start slow nearly every game, and the big reason is the QB is handcuffed at the start of the game.

They have like barely any offensive TDs on their first drive from 2016-2019.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/9/1...ning-drive-touchdown-two-years-nfl-statistics

Pete is coaching the start of nearly every game like he has Mark Sanchez at QB, not a dynamic playmaker.

Also the Seahawks offense has been below average to terrible at running the football, 4 of the last 5 years, despite that being the teams emphasis, and Wilson still performs at a high level in spite of not having said running game.
There is no reason to start games so conservatively, outside of dogma.




[tweet][tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1177653179619696640[/tweet][/tweet]

#Free Russell

 

[hgwellz12]

I don't even really see how this debatable.

#FREERUSSELL

 

[John63]

I don't even really see how this debatable.

#FREERUSSELL

Factually it should not. But you have some who do not care about stats or facts. Others who dont want to give any credit to Wilson.

 

[John63]

Russell Wilson is not the kind of QB that’s gonna carry you with his arm. He’s still largely an opportunistic QB - piling up stats in prevent defense (as the case against NO), or throwing bombs when the running game draws the defense in. That’s why his stats are so good. He’ll never be the kind of pocket QB you want him to be. Seattle found success again by running and playing good defense.

Wrong.

He is the best 4th quarter QB of all-time, and the Seahawks are rarely ever in the position of playing in garbage time to face prevent defenses. He finally had a chance last week, but it hardly ever comes up.

Russell threw the ball what, 50 times on Sunday? Loss.

Russell also threw the ball the first two games last year in Chicago and Denver when Schotty and Pete admitted that they threw it too much. Loss and Loss.

You guys hyper fixate on "taking the reins off Russell." When in reality what you really are saying is stop being so run predictable in the first halves of games and be my dynamic with the playcalling so Russell CAN do more in that respect.

So it's not so much "just let Russell throw it more." It's;

- be more dynamic in playcalling
- stop being so predictable in first halves of game with conservative establish the run schemes
- Give Russell and Schotty more freedom pre and in game for adjustments and playcalling

Those are the sorts of things Pete needs to change his ways on, not just we want Russell to throw it 40-50 times a game. That doesn't work.

Well said Sarge. Hawks are 2-11 I believe I read when Russ throws 40+ times. Just proves balance is most effective.

so Point of note we are 2-8 when he throws over 40 times, however he is

64% compt, 7.5 ypc, 3tds 1int, and 102 Qb rating in those games so the problem is not Wilson. The problem is waiting to long to let him loose.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The Seahawks offense has problems, Russell Wilson isn't one of them. In fact he has been masking their problems for years.

Oh this is such a BS statement. Seattle didn't have a run game AT ALL for two years, 2016-2017. If the team doesn't have even an adequate run game, you get zoned in on as the QB.

Prior to that, in 2015, we had the exact kind of offense you want, pass-first.

Prior to that, we were in the Super Bowl.

That leaves 2018, where we made the playoffs and lost partially because we deviated from the balance we'd found all regular season, and partially because we forgot how to tackle on defense at a crucial time.

We went to the Super Bowl because we were stacked with talent. We've fallen short since because we've lost a great deal of that talent and haven't adequately replaced it.

These annoying talking heads on Twitter just want the love of pundits and bloggers for their team. They've seen the slack-jawed fascination that SportsCenter always had for the (surprisingly decode-able) Rams play-action offense and they want it for themselves.

?????

What are you going on about?

This discussion is about the offense, and how they start slow nearly every game, and the big reason is the QB is handcuffed at the start of the game.

They have like barely any offensive TDs on their first drive from 2016-2019.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/9/1...ning-drive-touchdown-two-years-nfl-statistics

Pete is coaching the start of nearly every game like he has Mark Sanchez at QB, not a dynamic playmaker.

Also the Seahawks offense has been below average to terrible at running the football, 4 of the last 5 years, despite that being the teams emphasis, and Wilson still performs at a high level in spite of not having said running game.
There is no reason to start games so conservatively, outside of dogma.




[tweet][tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1177653179619696640[/tweet][/tweet]

#Free Russell

You want it to be entirely about offensive play-calling, and so do these myopic critics you keep quoting.

But that doesn't mean it's valid to make it entirely about offensive play-calling. Big difference between what you want and what is.

Truth is, when you step back and consider the injury histories, the team's ridiculous talent quotient during the Super Bowl years, and, oh I don't know, the fact that we've been the most consistent playoff participant not named the New England Patriots for the last decade, the play-calling issue shrinks and becomes only part of the whole. It takes a special talent to argue with results.

This whole debate is valid to have, but it's severely out of proportion to the big picture, which has involved injury and a general failure by Pete to reproduce the talent level necessary to win games at crucial positions. That's why this whole thing reeks of bizarrity to me. It's not wrong to have the talk; it's out of whack to make it this much of a fulcrum.

In case you want to argue something like "What, we're not allowed to talk about play-calling?", consider whom it is you're quoting with all these tweets. I mean, what is Ben Baldwin known for? He's the crusader of the run-disenfranchising, pass-pushing movement. There's hardly anything else to his shtick. His acolytes are the same - every one of these guys talks of "wasting Russell's prime" in terms of the play-calling, and maybe 5% in the failure to secure enough solid pass-catchers, or the fact that Blair Walsh robbed us of a 13-3 season in 2017 of all seasons, or the Eddie Lacy/Luke Joeckel misstep, or any such. Are they? I've mostly missed it, if they are. Maybe 5% of their talk is about that stuff. These nobodies in Seahawks Twitter are laying the blame at the feet of the playcalling and philosophy.

 

[John63]

The Seahawks offense has problems, Russell Wilson isn't one of them. In fact he has been masking their problems for years.

Oh this is such a BS statement. Seattle didn't have a run game AT ALL for two years, 2016-2017. If the team doesn't have even an adequate run game, you get zoned in on as the QB.

Prior to that, in 2015, we had the exact kind of offense you want, pass-first.

Prior to that, we were in the Super Bowl.

That leaves 2018, where we made the playoffs and lost partially because we deviated from the balance we'd found all regular season, and partially because we forgot how to tackle on defense at a crucial time.

We went to the Super Bowl because we were stacked with talent. We've fallen short since because we've lost a great deal of that talent and haven't adequately replaced it.

These annoying talking heads on Twitter just want the love of pundits and bloggers for their team. They've seen the slack-jawed fascination that SportsCenter always had for the (surprisingly decode-able) Rams play-action offense and they want it for themselves.

?????

What are you going on about?

This discussion is about the offense, and how they start slow nearly every game, and the big reason is the QB is handcuffed at the start of the game.

They have like barely any offensive TDs on their first drive from 2016-2019.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/9/1...ning-drive-touchdown-two-years-nfl-statistics

Pete is coaching the start of nearly every game like he has Mark Sanchez at QB, not a dynamic playmaker.

Also the Seahawks offense has been below average to terrible at running the football, 4 of the last 5 years, despite that being the teams emphasis, and Wilson still performs at a high level in spite of not having said running game.
There is no reason to start games so conservatively, outside of dogma.




[tweet][tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1177653179619696640[/tweet][/tweet]

#Free Russell

You want it to be entirely about offensive play-calling, and so do these myopic critics you keep quoting.

But that doesn't mean it's valid to make it entirely about offensive play-calling. Big difference between what you want and what is.

Truth is, when you step back and consider the injury histories, the team's ridiculous talent quotient during the Super Bowl years, and, oh I don't know, the fact that we've been the most consistent playoff participant not named the New England Patriots for the last decade, the play-calling issue shrinks and becomes only part of the whole. It takes a special talent to argue with results.

This whole debate is valid to have, but it's severely out of proportion to the big picture, which has involved injury and a general failure by Pete to reproduce the talent level necessary to win games at crucial positions. That's why this whole thing reeks of bizarrity to me. It's not wrong to have the talk; it's out of whack to make it this much of a fulcrum.

In case you want to argue something like "What, we're not allowed to talk about play-calling?", consider whom it is you're quoting with all these tweets. I mean, what is Ben Baldwin known for? He's the crusader of the run-disenfranchising, pass-pushing movement. There's hardly anything else to his shtick. His acolytes are the same - every one of these guys talks of "wasting Russell's prime" in terms of the play-calling, and maybe 5% in the failure to secure enough solid pass-catchers, or the fact that Blair Walsh robbed us of a 13-3 season in 2017 of all seasons, or the Eddie Lacy/Luke Joeckel misstep, or any such. Are they? I've mostly missed it, if they are. Maybe 5% of their talk is about that stuff. These nobodies in Seahawks Twitter are laying the blame at the feet of the playcalling and philosophy.

The point he and mos tare trying to make is we are wasting Wilson and if they perhaps used him right we would not have needed Walsh to be well avg, or Lacy would not have mattered. If you are going to play a game dont you want to have you best horse lead the way form start to finis, not sit around in the turn stile till the race is almost over. All the stats being thrown out supports this, and shows that Wilson does not need a great run game or even great WRs. He just needs to be given the reigns and let him go. And FYI its not just nobodies about the play calling it is a lot of experts, also FYI your a nobody arguing to the contrary.

 

[Jville]

The Seahawks offense has problems, Russell Wilson isn't one of them. In fact he has been masking their problems for years.

Oh this is such a BS statement. Seattle didn't have a run game AT ALL for two years, 2016-2017. If the team doesn't have even an adequate run game, you get zoned in on as the QB.

Prior to that, in 2015, we had the exact kind of offense you want, pass-first.

Prior to that, we were in the Super Bowl.

That leaves 2018, where we made the playoffs and lost partially because we deviated from the balance we'd found all regular season, and partially because we forgot how to tackle on defense at a crucial time.

We went to the Super Bowl because we were stacked with talent. We've fallen short since because we've lost a great deal of that talent and haven't adequately replaced it.

These annoying talking heads on Twitter just want the love of pundits and bloggers for their team. They've seen the slack-jawed fascination that SportsCenter always had for the (surprisingly decode-able) Rams play-action offense and they want it for themselves.

?????

What are you going on about?

This discussion is about the offense, and how they start slow nearly every game, and the big reason is the QB is handcuffed at the start of the game.

They have like barely any offensive TDs on their first drive from 2016-2019.
https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/9/1...ning-drive-touchdown-two-years-nfl-statistics

Pete is coaching the start of nearly every game like he has Mark Sanchez at QB, not a dynamic playmaker.

Also the Seahawks offense has been below average to terrible at running the football, 4 of the last 5 years, despite that being the teams emphasis, and Wilson still performs at a high level in spite of not having said running game.
There is no reason to start games so conservatively, outside of dogma.




[tweet][tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1177653179619696640[/tweet][/tweet]

#Free Russell

You want it to be entirely about offensive play-calling, and so do these myopic critics you keep quoting.

But that doesn't mean it's valid to make it entirely about offensive play-calling. Big difference between what you want and what is.

Truth is, when you step back and consider the injury histories, the team's ridiculous talent quotient during the Super Bowl years, and, oh I don't know, the fact that we've been the most consistent playoff participant not named the New England Patriots for the last decade, the play-calling issue shrinks and becomes only part of the whole. It takes a special talent to argue with results.

This whole debate is valid to have, but it's severely out of proportion to the big picture, which has involved injury and a general failure by Pete to reproduce the talent level necessary to win games at crucial positions. That's why this whole thing reeks of bizarrity to me. It's not wrong to have the talk; it's out of whack to make it this much of a fulcrum.

In case you want to argue something like "What, we're not allowed to talk about play-calling?", consider whom it is you're quoting with all these tweets. I mean, what is Ben Baldwin known for? He's the crusader of the run-disenfranchising, pass-pushing movement. There's hardly anything else to his shtick. His acolytes are the same - every one of these guys talks of "wasting Russell's prime" in terms of the play-calling, and maybe 5% in the failure to secure enough solid pass-catchers, or the fact that Blair Walsh robbed us of a 13-3 season in 2017 of all seasons, or the Eddie Lacy/Luke Joeckel misstep, or any such. Are they? I've mostly missed it, if they are. Maybe 5% of their talk is about that stuff. These nobodies in Seahawks Twitter are laying the blame at the feet of the playcalling and philosophy.

Upon reflection, I suppose it was inevitable that Analytical Grifters would eventually appear. (My words not yours). I find it useful to acknowledge that Ben Baldwin has set a mighty strong hook and reeled in a rather sizeable catch. And, that influence will likely act much like fantasy enthusiasts. Often confusing statistical driven entertainment with the actual game on the field.

For better or worse, the influence of New Age Grifters is going to be with us for the foreseeable future.

 

[chris98251]

Yes but the game of football is about outliers to predictable metrics, you can scheme to prevent those occurrences, understanding that takes a understanding of the game and set up to be successful when you have guys crunching numbers saying to do something and the guys that succeed do something else because on the other side their guys are saying in this situation there is a 87 percent chance they will run this play in this formation.

Just like Wilson and the read option, it was schemed to prevent after a couple successful seasons of doing it, teams now set up to prevent it so we do something different whether it's a pass in the flat or a delayed run by Wilson up the middle or a bomb to Metcalf.

Belichek recently says he does not use analytics for how they do stuff, he did not say he didn't use them for evaluation of opponents however.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Is there even data to support the use of data?

 

[LTH]

It doesn't matter if he should or shouldn't be asked to carry the offense. He has done it time and time again. Clearly, the running game isn't near what they thought it was going to be, at least so far.
As far as Sunday goes, w/out Peterson in there, they are giving up over 460 yards a game. I think Russ tops 300 again and throws a couple TD's to Lockett.

I just think people dont understand whats really happening... there is a reason why Pete does what he does...We are not in the meetings, we do not have a good understanding of what their game plan really is or why they call the plays they do...

People get really upset with the play calling.... for example when they went for it on 4th and one against the Saints and didn't make it, Wilson threw that little lob pass that was way off the mark. Plays like that people say why the heck didn't they just run it... well, it wasn't the play that was bad, it was they did not execute the play correctly... if they execute that play they are hero's if they dont then everybody just dogs Shotty...

IMO Pete opens the O up when he thinks the O is efficient enough to make it happen... It's all a team progression of learning and execution. Every year they go through this and every year is different according to the identity the team takes on... For the life of me I dont' understand why people dont understand this...

LTH

 

[Fade]

Just your daily reminder they are Dolphins tier their first 15 offensive plays of the game, worst in the NFL.

This problem also goes back 4 seasons starting in 2016. It takes a special kind of kool-aid to be fine with this.

#Free Russell

 

[John63]

It doesn't matter if he should or shouldn't be asked to carry the offense. He has done it time and time again. Clearly, the running game isn't near what they thought it was going to be, at least so far.
As far as Sunday goes, w/out Peterson in there, they are giving up over 460 yards a game. I think Russ tops 300 again and throws a couple TD's to Lockett.

I just think people dont understand whats really happening... there is a reason why Pete does what he does...We are not in the meetings, we do not have a good understanding of what their game plan really is or why they call the plays they do...

People get really upset with the play calling.... for example when they went for it on 4th and one against the Saints and didn't make it, Wilson threw that little lob pass that was way off the mark. Plays like that people say why the heck didn't they just run it... well, it wasn't the play that was bad, it was they did not execute the play correctly... if they execute that play they are hero's if they dont then everybody just dogs Shotty...

IMO Pete opens the O up when he thinks the O is efficient enough to make it happen... It's all a team progression of learning and execution. Every year they go through this and every year is different according to the identity the team takes on... For the life of me I dont' understand why people dont understand this...

LTH

Except that is not what PC himself has said many times. He has said he wants to run it, and play it close and then win in the end. That is when he wants to open it up. As to the whole it snot a bad play only bad execution, then no coach should ever get fired because it is never their fault. Which is not true One could argue even a bad play can work due to errors on the defense, or superior play by the offense. The reality is often for this team we rely on 1-3 plays to win the game and if we make any mistakes were are done. We make the line to win to fine. Were as if we started from the beginning to open it up and score we could absorb some mistakes.