Disconcerting to say the least

[Seafan]

Some fans here are acting like Phil Rivers. We go into their place and beat them. Their only TD in on a 4th string safety who is going to be cut. :angry017:

 

[ivotuk]

Some fans here are acting like Phil Rivers. We go into their place and beat them. Their only TD in on a 4th string safety who is going to be cut. :angry017:

I'm not sure where your getting this? There was a game, fans are discussing their point of view of the game, yet someone always feels it is necessary to comment on the people who are discussing the game.

And it's not like this is the only time. Can't we discuss a game, both pros and cons without someone commenting on the maturity level of those partaking in the discussion?

It always takes the same form "I disagree with the topic, therefore others are " place negative comment here. "

Why not just join the discussion and offer up thoughts of your own.

Sorry Seafan, you are far from the main protagonist, just the one that got caught in my cross hairs.

Carry on.

 

[lukerguy]

Yeah I do not agree with your comparisons at all. Edleman is better than Baldwin period, and Cobb is way more than slightly better than Baldwin. So sorry there is a reason both NE and GB had higher ranking WRs groupings than we did. Their talent is better. Now with Graham it is closer but again that is this year. In the last 3 both of those QBs had better talent.

Period? Why because you said so?

Edelman is a product of being the best QB of All time's #1 WR. He's not that excellent.

Here's another way to look at it.

In 2013 Doug Baldwin had 780 yards and Golden Tate had 890 yards. Tate went on to put up 1330 yards last year with Det. By the same metric, Baldwin would have put up 1200 yards roughly in Detroit which would have been more than Edleman put up in a career year for NE.

WRs just aren't set up to put up huge stats here, but that doesn't mean they aren't as good. If you put Baldwin into GB and took away Cobb, I guarantee you Baldwin would put up similar stats. Baldwin has similar size, hands, route running and 40 time. Cobb is better IMO, but only slightly.

 

[Anthony!]

Yeah I do not agree with your comparisons at all. Edleman is better than Baldwin period, and Cobb is way more than slightly better than Baldwin. So sorry there is a reason both NE and GB had higher ranking WRs groupings than we did. Their talent is better. Now with Graham it is closer but again that is this year. In the last 3 both of those QBs had better talent.

Period? Why because you said so?

Edelman is a product of being the best QB of All time's #1 WR. He's not that excellent.

Here's another way to look at it.

In 2013 Doug Baldwin had 780 yards and Golden Tate had 890 yards. Tate went on to put up 1330 yards last year with Det. By the same metric, Baldwin would have put up 1200 yards roughly in Detroit which would have been more than Edleman put up in a career year for NE.

WRs just aren't set up to put up huge stats here, but that doesn't mean they aren't as good. If you put Baldwin into GB and took away Cobb, I guarantee you Baldwin would put up similar stats. Baldwin has similar size, hands, route running and 40 time. Cobb is better IMO, but only slightly.

ahh for one Edleman is one of the Wr that made Matt Flynn look like the 2nd coming. 2 he is ranked higher than Baldwin and it is not close. Like I said ESPN ranked the Wr corps we were 24th, GB was top 10. that is why

 

[HuskerHawk]

I'm also a big Pats fan, and I'm gonna agree with Anthony! on this one. Edelman is better than Baldwin in my opinion. He's not prime Wes Welker level unconverable in the slot, but he's close.

 

[lukerguy]

I will not resort to name calling. I will not resort to name calling.

You just have no idea most of you people. The QB and offense can make or break the WR. Look at Randy Moss in Oakland before being traded to NE. He had 533 yards and 3 TDs. Fast forward ONE year to NE and he had 1500 yards and 23 TDs. Moss was always great, but Brady brought that out of him.

Seattle is a run first offense with a QB who brings most of his value on the ground. Baldwin, like Tate would explode in another pass heavy system. Edleman actually puts up pretty crappy stats considering he's the #1 for Tom freakin Brady.

How about Deion Branch- 1000 yards with NE, then 725 with Seattle the next year and he wasn't even Brady's #1 WR at the time. He was the #2. Edleman is Brady's #1 WR and had 1000 yards, Baldwin with 825. Sound familiar?

You can't see the difference between productivity and Skill/talent, but that's OK. I understand you are linear.

 

[Uncle Si]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Agrred. You know more about this than I do...but is it wholly possible the Seahawks and well most of the NFL just aren't showing their hands yet?

I'd imagine a team like Seattle is using Preseason to work out some kinks but also just trying some things to see if they work

Some just aren't is my guess.

 

[CovingtonHawk]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

My take on this analysis would be that it would be spot on if you were to rate their draft value on where you would draft them today.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Agrred. You know more about this than I do...but is it wholly possible the Seahawks and well most of the NFL just aren't showing their hands yet?

I'd imagine a team like Seattle is using Preseason to work out some kinks but also just trying some things to see if they work

Some just aren't is my guess.

My complaints are not with the offensive scheme, play calling, situational tactics, whethr we go for it on 4th down, or anything related to planning or showing hands.

My complaints are strictly limited to execution, and largely directed at our 87-million-dollar-man who is simply failing to execute.

I am not criticising how much we throw at Jimmy Graham, I am criticising the throws that were too high.

I don't mind low-percentage deep throws, except they were underthrown and almost led to interceptions.

I don't like that 12 drives have led to 12 points and no touchdowns.

I don't like that passes are not catchable.

I don't like that Wilson's cumulative QB rating of 67.4 ranks 77th in the NFL. I know, "it's only pre-season". But last year, Wilson was #2 with a rating of 133. He dropped 75 places in a league of 32 teams. You know who's next below him? Tim Freaking Tebow.

There are at least 14 third-string QBs who had a better pre-season than our highest-paid player. There will be unemployed QBs who can boast of having out-performed Wilson this pre-season.

That's entirely about execution - what happens after the play call, on the field - and it's just not good enough.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Yes I am concerned.

We just granted an 87 million dollar contract to a guy who has yet to lead the offense of a touchdown in the pre-season. This same player started VERY slow in his last two outings - NFCCG and Super Bowl, and dug huge holes for his team to climb out of.

I don't know or care what his problem is, but he needs to get his crap together.

This is not the same player who posted 100+ QB ratings. This guy is indecisive and inaccurate.

This isn't routes or scheme or pressure or other excuses; this is our starting quarterback who values preparation looking like he's mailing it in.

He's been shown the money; now he needs to show the skills and he just plain hasn't in three outings.

It's the same name on the same team - but is it the same player?

ukeface:

If you have a point, let's discuss it. If you have nothing to say, well, do the maths.

 

[Anthony!]

I will not resort to name calling. I will not resort to name calling.

You just have no idea most of you people. The QB and offense can make or break the WR. Look at Randy Moss in Oakland before being traded to NE. He had 533 yards and 3 TDs. Fast forward ONE year to NE and he had 1500 yards and 23 TDs. Moss was always great, but Brady brought that out of him.

Seattle is a run first offense with a QB who brings most of his value on the ground. Baldwin, like Tate would explode in another pass heavy system. Edleman actually puts up pretty crappy stats considering he's the #1 for Tom freakin Brady.

How about Deion Branch- 1000 yards with NE, then 725 with Seattle the next year and he wasn't even Brady's #1 WR at the time. He was the #2. Edleman is Brady's #1 WR and had 1000 yards, Baldwin with 825. Sound familiar?

You can't see the difference between productivity and Skill/talent, but that's OK. I understand you are linear.

Dude no one is saying a great QB cannot make a Wr better and a great WR cannot make a QB better, what we are saying is the top tier QBs all have better weapons in the pass game around them. That is a fact. The thing you are forgetting in your dream of Baldwin being some great Wr is a lot of his catches and yards come after Wilson scrambles for a while so he can get open. Something Brady does not do. FYI you forget Moss had a great career before Oakland as well. He had 5+ straight 1000 yard years in Minny. So lets not act like Brady made Moss, what he did was use him better that is all. I can understand the difference and in Baldwin I see a guy who has some talent but needs help to get open to much. Edleman gets open a lot. If you cannot understand that than I am sorry for you.

 

[dino26]

I know there have been some moments that have left me a bit uneasy but I gotta remind myself this is only preseason!

We will be fine and welcome the chase!

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Agrred. You know more about this than I do...but is it wholly possible the Seahawks and well most of the NFL just aren't showing their hands yet?

I'd imagine a team like Seattle is using Preseason to work out some kinks but also just trying some things to see if they work

Some just aren't is my guess.

My complaints are not with the offensive scheme, play calling, situational tactics, whethr we go for it on 4th down, or anything related to planning or showing hands.

My complaints are strictly limited to execution, and largely directed at our 87-million-dollar-man who is simply failing to execute.

I am not criticising how much we throw at Jimmy Graham, I am criticising the throws that were too high.

I don't mind low-percentage deep throws, except they were underthrown and almost led to interceptions.

I don't like that 12 drives have led to 12 points and no touchdowns.

I don't like that passes are not catchable.

I don't like that Wilson's cumulative QB rating of 67.4 ranks 77th in the NFL. I know, "it's only pre-season". But last year, Wilson was #2 with a rating of 133. He dropped 75 places in a league of 32 teams. You know who's next below him? Tim Freaking Tebow.

There are at least 14 third-string QBs who had a better pre-season than our highest-paid player. There will be unemployed QBs who can boast of having out-performed Wilson this pre-season.

That's entirely about execution - what happens after the play call, on the field - and it's just not good enough.

Calm down, Debbie.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

I will not resort to name calling. I will not resort to name calling.

You just have no idea most of you people. The QB and offense can make or break the WR. Look at Randy Moss in Oakland before being traded to NE. He had 533 yards and 3 TDs. Fast forward ONE year to NE and he had 1500 yards and 23 TDs. Moss was always great, but Brady brought that out of him.

Seattle is a run first offense with a QB who brings most of his value on the ground. Baldwin, like Tate would explode in another pass heavy system. Edleman actually puts up pretty crappy stats considering he's the #1 for Tom freakin Brady.

How about Deion Branch- 1000 yards with NE, then 725 with Seattle the next year and he wasn't even Brady's #1 WR at the time. He was the #2. Edleman is Brady's #1 WR and had 1000 yards, Baldwin with 825. Sound familiar?

You can't see the difference between productivity and Skill/talent, but that's OK. I understand you are linear.

Dude no one is saying a great QB cannot make a Wr better and a great WR cannot make a QB better, what we are saying is the top tier QBs all have better weapons in the pass game around them. That is a fact. The thing you are forgetting in your dream of Baldwin being some great Wr is a lot of his catches and yards come after Wilson scrambles for a while so he can get open. Something Brady does not do. FYI you forget Moss had a great career before Oakland as well. He had 5+ straight 1000 yard years in Minny. So lets not act like Brady made Moss, what he did was use him better that is all. I can understand the difference and in Baldwin I see a guy who has some talent but needs help to get open to much. Edleman gets open a lot. If you cannot understand that than I am sorry for you.

Edleman plays in a system that is a QB and WR's dream when it comes to passing, and allowing WR's to 'get open.' I have no doubt that Baldwin would excel in that system; it plays to all of his strengths. I think Pete hangs onto Bevell because he want an offense the he understands well enough to make a call or two when he feels the need. It's monotonous to watch and severely limits what some of our WR's are capable of doing, but what can ya do?

 

[KiwiHawk]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Agrred. You know more about this than I do...but is it wholly possible the Seahawks and well most of the NFL just aren't showing their hands yet?

I'd imagine a team like Seattle is using Preseason to work out some kinks but also just trying some things to see if they work

Some just aren't is my guess.

My complaints are not with the offensive scheme, play calling, situational tactics, whethr we go for it on 4th down, or anything related to planning or showing hands.

My complaints are strictly limited to execution, and largely directed at our 87-million-dollar-man who is simply failing to execute.

I am not criticising how much we throw at Jimmy Graham, I am criticising the throws that were too high.

I don't mind low-percentage deep throws, except they were underthrown and almost led to interceptions.

I don't like that 12 drives have led to 12 points and no touchdowns.

I don't like that passes are not catchable.

I don't like that Wilson's cumulative QB rating of 67.4 ranks 77th in the NFL. I know, "it's only pre-season". But last year, Wilson was #2 with a rating of 133. He dropped 75 places in a league of 32 teams. You know who's next below him? Tim Freaking Tebow.

There are at least 14 third-string QBs who had a better pre-season than our highest-paid player. There will be unemployed QBs who can boast of having out-performed Wilson this pre-season.

That's entirely about execution - what happens after the play call, on the field - and it's just not good enough.

Calm down, Debbie.

Same as my post to Anthony! - if you have points to make, let's discuss them. If you have nothing to contribute then please refer to the thread on being civil toward one another. Name-calling in not productive.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Yes I am concerned.

We just granted an 87 million dollar contract to a guy who has yet to lead the offense of a touchdown in the pre-season. This same player started VERY slow in his last two outings - NFCCG and Super Bowl, and dug huge holes for his team to climb out of.

I don't know or care what his problem is, but he needs to get his crap together.

This is not the same player who posted 100+ QB ratings. This guy is indecisive and inaccurate.

This isn't routes or scheme or pressure or other excuses; this is our starting quarterback who values preparation looking like he's mailing it in.

He's been shown the money; now he needs to show the skills and he just plain hasn't in three outings.

It's the same name on the same team - but is it the same player?

Are you for real?

Wilson has played a handful of series and you're pressing the panic button? Were you there in 2008/2009 when the Seahawks were one of the worst teams in the league?

People need to calm down and go get a cup of tea or something. Outrageous.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Yes I am concerned.

We just granted an 87 million dollar contract to a guy who has yet to lead the offense of a touchdown in the pre-season. This same player started VERY slow in his last two outings - NFCCG and Super Bowl, and dug huge holes for his team to climb out of.

I don't know or care what his problem is, but he needs to get his crap together.

This is not the same player who posted 100+ QB ratings. This guy is indecisive and inaccurate.

This isn't routes or scheme or pressure or other excuses; this is our starting quarterback who values preparation looking like he's mailing it in.

He's been shown the money; now he needs to show the skills and he just plain hasn't in three outings.

It's the same name on the same team - but is it the same player?

Are you for real?

Wilson has played a handful of series and you're pressing the panic button? Were you there in 2008/2009 when the Seahawks were one of the worst teams in the league?

People need to calm down and go get a cup of tea or something. Outrageous.

We drink coffee over here Rob. :thcoffee:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Oh brother, it's pre-season. I remember the Lions going 4-0 in pre-season, only to end up 0-16 in the regular season.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Like Sherm said "It's a glorified practice"

He's 100 percent right.

 

[Largent80]

3 words...Archer is HORRID.

see, and I was thinking last night that Archer's a pretty smooth looking QB and that I was glad we have him.

I would say an eye exam may be in order here.