Geno's Decision to Slide

[Maelstrom787]

It's hard to separate terrible outcomes from terrible processes. Ugly outcomes like we saw on Sunday inevitably leads to discussions where every mistake is blown out of proportion.

Geno made the correct decision to slide and he clearly thought he had the first down. Unfortunately, he misjudged the timing by a fraction of a second - which happens all the time in the NFL. Guys go out of bounds inches ahead of the first down marker, run their routes a few inches short, and yes QBs do slide early sometimes. This particular mistake ended up being very costly, but that doesn't make the mistake itself worth much of the hyperbole in this thread.

One fundamental point here is that the correct number of mistakes in life is not zero. Zero mistakes means you aren't pushing the envelope enough. QBs should slide to avoid big hits, even if that means they will occasionally slide too early. Offensive linemen should try to get an advantage by getting off the line quickly, even if that means they will false start occasionally. Defensive backs should be physical, even if they occasionally draw holding penalties. DK should fight for extra yardage, even if it means an occasional fumble.

There is a sweet spot between risk and reward we are striving for, and that doesn't occur at zero risk tolerance.

This is the appropriate take. It just isn't satisfying to a bunch of frothing-at-the-mouth fans after a hard loss, especially those who just want to have the most embarrassing fights of all time on a forum.

This does happen literally *all the time* in the NFL.

 

[pittpnthrs]

No. You are incorrectly lumping the the mistimed slide into the list of things Geno did right, which (obviously) wasn't my argument. My argument was that the slide falls within the margin for error—meaning that it was relatively minor in the context of the entire play and that it was neither a mental mistake nor a lack of awareness, but instead a mistimed slide.

Now, focus on the argument. Not the person.

How is the slide within the margain of error? What does that even mean? How is it in the margain of error if it failed? Again, there should have been no slide and how is it a minor detail in an ordinary QB scramble when there's a thread with 6 pages talking about it?

It was both a mental mistake and lack of awareness. The majority plainly see's that. Why can't you?

 

[pittpnthrs]

This is the appropriate take. It just isn't satisfying to a bunch of frothing-at-the-mouth fans after a hard loss, especially those who just want to have the most embarrassing fights of all time on a forum.

This does happen literally *all the time* in the NFL.

Why do you think sliding was the correct take? If it's even close, you don't slide.

 

[Ozzy]

I like that anyone who thinks He made a mistake is viewed as the guilty party in all of this and the ones who are ridiculous. It wouldn’t be a fight if when someone mentioned the mistake the “Defend Geno at all costs” crowd didn’t get so upset at the thought of a mistake. Takes two to tango as they say. I’m truly baffled that mentioning a mistake of Geno causes so much emotional response from people too. See this argument works both ways.

We have two different takes on the slide maybe it’s time we all move on?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Josh Allen literally just did the same sh+t the other night against the Ravens. He thought he had the yards and went down before the sticks. It happens.

Sure it happens, but does that make it any less of a mistake?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

The QB is no more aware of the yardmarker when he running full tilt in the middle of the field than the RB is. There isnt some special spatial awareness trait you are embued with when you play the position.

There should be! He's the one in charge of 'getting there' whether it's him or someone else!

 

[pittpnthrs]

I like that anyone who thinks He made a mistake is viewed as the guilty party in all of this and the ones who are ridiculous. It wouldn’t be a fight if when someone mentioned the mistake the “Defend Geno at all costs” crowd didn’t get so upset at the thought of a mistake. Takes two to tango as they say. I’m truly baffled that mentioning a mistake of Geno causes so much emotional response from people too. See this argument works both ways.

We have two different takes on the slide maybe it’s time we all move on?

This place really is obscene sometimes. I can't believe how many people think Geno walks on water here and can't even admit when he made a mistake. It's the craziest thing i've witnessed on this board.

 

[keasley45]

I like that anyone who thinks He made a mistake is viewed as the guilty party in all of this and the ones who are ridiculous. It wouldn’t be a fight if when someone mentioned the mistake the “Defend Geno at all costs” crowd didn’t get so upset at the thought of a mistake. Takes two to tango as they say. I’m truly baffled that mentioning a mistake of Geno causes so much emotional response from people too. See this argument works both ways.

We have two different takes on the slide maybe it’s time we all move on?

I dont think anyone is arguing that he didnt make a mistake. He OBVIOUSLY made a mistake. EVERYBODY who watched the game knows he made a mistake. I dropped the F bomb when i saw it in real-time.

The issue is that it all has to get amplified to the point of characterizing him as something akin to negligent, or irresponsible in the act of sliding. One that some act as though QBs arent ENCOURAGED to do over all else.

And its not as tbough this was the last play of the game. There was a quarter left to play, with plenty of time to make up the failed drive had we just punted.

The REAL travesty was the playcall that followed. Not that he took us to within a yard, even if he thought he had the sticks.

And the real fire behind the flaming of the dude stems from something much deeper than a slide that came up short. Lets not pretend that there arent quite a few on this board who begrudgingly throw their support behind Geno even now and for various reasons will always find the smallest mistakes he makes as reason to start the drumb beat of 'told you... he's not the guy... he's just a bridge bound to collapse'.

Geno started his tenure here as starter with a glass half empty (and one with a hole in it) perspective of him by some. And that perspective had little to do with the actual football he was playing here, in Seattle as starter for the Seahawks. It had more to do with a feeling he was a has been, lacked smarts, was a poor leader and questionable citizen (stemming from a dwi), couldnt be good because he was a backup for so long - qb that got his jaw broke by a teammate.

And then he made it all infinitely worse for himself by actually keeping the Seahawks relevant when many of the folks im talking about above were sure we'd be an embarrassment with him and that the guy he displaced was destined for greatness... the HOF, REAL franchise QB.

So lets not pretend that there wont be 5 threads a week dedicated to whatever mistakes the guy makes, simply because some folks just need to vent their only slightly veiled true feelings about the dude, regardless of the fact that he is undeniably one of the top handful of qbs in the league.

And that's NOT to say he's perfect or beyond criticism. There are just better things to criticize about his game than an almost 1st down on a big play scramble when the final outcome of the game was far from certain. It's just that those other things arent as easy to define this week as 'irresponsible ' , caring about his health more than the team win. Because THOSE things can help make the case that he isn't the franchise guy his play otherwise shows he is. And when it comes to Geno, often, that's THE point of the criticism. Not that his failures are things he can improve upon, but rather that they are simply evidence that he is what some want to think he always will be. A washed up backup who got lucky, but at the end of the day is more average than he is good.

 

[keasley45]

There should be! He's the one in charge of 'getting there' whether it's him or someone else!

I dont know how to answer that. But I will start with the fact that he is a QB, charged with throwing the ball. His day job isn't running around the field, evading tackles and fighting for extra yards. That's the expertise of a RB or WR (unless your name is Lamar Jackson).

If it was Payton Manning back there and he slid short of the sticks (because its Payton and he rarely runs), or if it was Brady, breaking the pocket and angling for the sticks, there isnt a universe where 90% of the fans wouldnt be saying ' God bless, what are you doing... get down'. And if he did come up short, do you think segnents of the fanbase would look at either of them as being cowards because they slid down thinking they 'd got the yardage? He'll no.

Both would get a pass because they're pocket passing qbs, something Geno certainly is, even if his ability to scramble is better than the guys i mentioned.

So no. Its NOT natively in the qbs wheelhouse to be more aware of the sticks when scrambling up the middle of the field on the random occassion they are doing so than the wrs and rbs who literally are doing it every play.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I dont know how to answer that. But I will start with the fact that he is a QB, charged with throwing the ball. His day job isn't running around the field, evading tackles and fighting for extra yards. That's the expertise of a RB or WR (unless your name is Lamar Jackson).

If it was Payton Manning back there and he slid short of the sticks (because its Payton and he rarely runs), or if it was Brady, breaking the pocket and angling for the sticks, there isnt a universe where 90% of the fans wouldnt be saying ' God bless, what are you doing... get down'. And if he did come up short, do you think segnents of the fanbase would look at either of them as being cowards because they slid down thinking they 'd got the yardage? He'll no.

Both would get a pass because they're pocket passing qbs, something Geno certainly is, even if his ability to scramble is better than the guys i mentioned.

So no. Its NOT natively in the qbs wheelhouse to be more aware of the sticks when scrambling up the middle of the field on the random occassion they are doing so than the wrs and rbs who literally are doing it every play.

From a 'don't' kill the QB' perspective - I agree with some of your points.

However, in this case - it didn't look like he was in danger of being mangled - he could have waited the yard without getting broken in half.

And, apologies, but I just can't accept the fact that the QB doesn't need to know where the FD marker is. I've seen running QB's many times under pressure on the sideline hold the ball out over the marker. Hell that was Russ' signature move IMO.

So, basically the argument might be: Needs to know it when passing to someone else. Needs to know it when running to the outside. Doesn't need to know it when running up the middle? If it's just a visual indicator thing, I still can't really accept the fact that it could be that 'sesame street' - like if there was no visual aid, he's just lost?

Personally, I think it was a brain fart - I don't think he was actually intentionally avoiding contact. So, I guess unless we know which it was: a) avoiding contact or b) not knowing where the F he was - we could probably talk in circles all day.

If it's b) - that's stupid. If it's a) - I kinda get it.

 

[Ozzy]

I dont think anyone is arguing that he didnt make a mistake. He OBVIOUSLY made a mistake. EVERYBODY who watched the game knows he made a mistake. I dropped the F bomb when i saw it in real-time.

The issue is that it all has to get amplified to the point of characterizing him as something akin to negligent, or irresponsible in the act of sliding. One that some act as though QBs arent ENCOURAGED to do over all else.

And its not as tbough this was the last play of the game. There was a quarter left to play, with plenty of time to make up the failed drive had we just punted.

The REAL travesty was the playcall that followed. Not that he took us to within a yard, even if he thought he had the sticks.

And the real fire behind the flaming of the dude stems from something much deeper than a slide that came up short. Lets not pretend that there arent quite a few on this board who begrudgingly throw their support behind Geno even now and for various reasons will always find the smallest mistakes he makes as reason to start the drumb beat of 'told you... he's not the guy... he's just a bridge bound to collapse'.

Geno started his tenure here as starter with a glass half empty (and one with a hole in it) perspective of him by some. And that perspective had little to do with the actual football he was playing here, in Seattle as starter for the Seahawks. It had more to do with a feeling he was a has been, lacked smarts, was a poor leader and questionable citizen (stemming from a dwi), couldnt be good because he was a backup for so long - qb that got his jaw broke by a teammate.

And then he made it all infinitely worse for himself by actually keeping the Seahawks relevant when many of the folks im talking about above were sure we'd be an embarrassment with him and that the guy he displaced was destined for greatness... the HOF, REAL franchise QB.

So lets not pretend that there wont be 5 threads a week dedicated to whatever mistakes the guy makes, simply because some folks just need to vent their only slightly veiled true feelings about the dude, regardless of the fact that he is undeniably one of the top handful of qbs in the league.

And that's NOT to say he's perfect or beyond criticism. There are just better things to criticize about his game than an almost 1st down on a big play scramble when the final outcome of the game was far from certain. It's just that those other things arent as easy to define this week as 'irresponsible ' , caring about his health more than the team win. Because THOSE things can help make the case that he isn't the franchise guy his play otherwise shows he is. And when it comes to Geno, often, that's THE point of the criticism. Not that his failures are things he can improve upon, but rather that they are simply evidence that he is what some want to think he always will be. A washed up backup who got lucky, but at the end of the day is more average than he is good.

I have a theory. Those who wanted Russ gone are very likely to be the ones who want Geno to be elite so bad they caught up in these weird situations where they always come to his defense. Every single thread seems to have the same couple of people defending literally everything. Then you have those who didn’t want Russ gone and they’re more likely to be extra critical of Geno and look for reasons to land in the same arguments. So your argument isn’t wrong but I do think it leaves out half the equation. People’s biases cause them to take odd takes. We see it with the macondald vs Pete stuff too and ironically it’s a lot of the same people.

Geno has been much better than I expected him to be. He’s a good NFL QB but he also at times tends to make some mistakes that are entirely avoidable. It’s probably why it took 10 years to get a starting job. Both can be true and we should all be more objective when he’s good AND bad.

 

[Ozzy]

From a 'don't' kill the QB' perspective - I agree with some of your points.

However, in this case - it didn't look like he was in danger of being mangled - he could have waited the yard without getting broken in half.

And, apologies, but I just can't accept the fact that the QB doesn't need to know where the FD marker is. I've seen running QB's many times under pressure on the sideline hold the ball out over the marker. Hell that was Russ' signature move IMO.

So, basically the argument might be: Needs to know it when passing to someone else. Needs to know it when running to the outside. Doesn't need to know it when running up the middle? If it's just a visual indicator thing, I still can't really accept the fact that it could be that 'sesame street' - like if there was no visual aid, he's just lost?

Personally, I think it was a brain fart - I don't think he was actually intentionally avoiding contact. So, I guess unless we know which it was: a) avoiding contact or b) not knowing where the F he was - we could probably talk in circles all day.

If it's b) - that's stupid. If it's a) - I kinda get it.

If someone has played a lot of football it’s not hard to know where the marker is. It’s my least favorite defense of this whole argument. Geno has to know where he needs to get and you don’t have to be near the sideline to figure it out. I think we were spoiled by Russ a little in this area because he was really good at this and that may not be fair to Geno? I’m not sure

 

[Maelstrom787]

I like that anyone who thinks He made a mistake is viewed as the guilty party in all of this and the ones who are ridiculous. It wouldn’t be a fight if when someone mentioned the mistake the “Defend Geno at all costs” crowd didn’t get so upset at the thought of a mistake. Takes two to tango as they say. I’m truly baffled that mentioning a mistake of Geno causes so much emotional response from people too. See this argument works both ways.

We have two different takes on the slide maybe it’s time we all move on?

That's certainly one way to interpret what's happening in this thread, but it's more than a little demeaning, honestly.

Unless you're talking about someone in particular, that's such a dismissive reduction of some far more nuanced posts. They aren't just emotional responses to perceived slights against Geno. Mine aren't, and neither are the posts of @AgentDib

It wouldn't be a fight if there weren't people calling another group of people essentially a band of lemmings out to defend a single player at all costs rather than addressing their valid points thoughtfully. As you say, it takes two to tango.

People on both "sides" in this thread have acted like anuses to one another.

There are real reasons why a slide is an understandable thing for a quarterback to do when near the first down marker with 2 defenders squared up to deliver a hit. Sure, the outcome wasn't optimal. But acting like it isn't an understandable action to take seems a bit obtuse, and any conflict in this thread stems from people being obtuse in response to one another.

 

[keasley45]

I have a theory. Those who wanted Russ gone are very likely to be the ones who want Geno to be elite so bad they caught up in these weird situations where they always come to his defense. Every single thread seems to have the same couple of people defending literally everything. Then you have those who didn’t want Russ gone and they’re more likely to be extra critical of Geno and look for reasons to land in the same arguments. So your argument isn’t wrong but I do think it leaves out half the equation. People’s biases cause them to take odd takes. We see it with the macondald vs Pete stuff too and ironically it’s a lot of the same people.

Geno has been much better than I expected him to be. He’s a good NFL QB but he also at times tends to make some mistakes that are entirely avoidable. It’s probably why it took 10 years to get a starting job. Both can be true and we should all be more objective when he’s good AND bad.

Agree with most of that. Especially the last bit. It just seems impossible for there to be a logical, balanced debate about the guy BASED ON WHAT HE IS ACTUALLY DOING.

But instead, we have a qb who was the first to receive an MVP vote and in the same season, had folks wanting to move on from him if his contract extension number was anything more than 'middle of the pack'.

We have a guy who last year outperofrmed a dreadfull defense, and bottom 5 rushing attack and o line and got the team above .500 when they had no right to be, AND sets the NFL record for 4th qtr comebacks and he is somehow instead seen as 'part of the problem'. If he were part of the problem last year, we finish 5-12.

So i have to push back a bit on the 'equal fault on both sides' take. Because if you thought Geno was a borderline top 10 qb or better over the last 2 years and argued stubbornly that he was with a pocket full of evidence in your hands to show it (stats, records, MVP votes, comebacks, comp percentage, percentage complete of difficult throws, long ball accuracy, etc etc etc) you did so against a set of goalposts that moved everytime the ball went through. And why? Again. Nit becaise of anything he was ACTUALLY doing, but because of what he'd never done before getting here. And if it wasnt (isnt) that, its a slew of criticism PROVEN to be unfounded - like hes: slow to process plays (blatantly false), isnt clutch (blatantly false - NFL record proves that), is 'lucky' with his passes in that x many sboukd have been INTs ( a reference void of context at best, isnt a leader. Or that if he was franchise qb worthy, we'd have won more than 9 games a season under him.

So if you CONSTANTLY in the course of what coukd and sbould be a productive debate, have to push throuh arguments that are more based on personal bias, falsehoods, an obviously irrelevant past, but that are defended as if were fact, you can get to the point where you sound like a broken record... or Geno apologist.

Id wager if you look at the posts 95% of thise folks who denfend Geno avainst the above, they mostky reference the same facts about his game and his obvious skill st the position and in xs and os. Or, they defended the fundamental idea that a guy who'd sat in the system for a few years, held the board for some pretty good players in his past and who himself was a highly ranked recruit out of college (and for what? Arm, brains, football knowledge, accuracy) might be able to do good things in a system with reasonable support around him. And what happened? Exactly that.

Just as his play this year supports the evidence over the last 2 years that if the play and playcalling around him improved that he would as well.

So yeah. Pick apart his flaws. I mean the dude still sometimes is too confident in his first read and locks in on a wr.

He still is at times too slow to give up on collapsing pocket and instead stands in to take a sack or unnecessary big hit (the opposite of a business decision).

He does show an overconfidence in his arm and his ability to get the ball into absurdly tight spaces.

He seems to leave an open rusher free to clobber him at least once a game when he is responsible for the line calls.

And speaking of the above, how much blame is his for making incorrect adjustaments at times vs the play of the o-line?

Im saying... theres a lot to be critical of, but sliding short of the sticks last game and trying to throw it up as a red flag of some deeper flaw?

Thats not based on any logical analysis of what the dude is doing. Nor does it account for the inherent difficulty in making that play, as if ' all he had to to was just see where he was...' . Or 'if he wasnt making business decisions and was a real leader / elite / francbise qb' he would have lowered his sboukder or known better where he was. Ok. So forget he is near league leading in a few statistical categories and has literally been our offense this year (as he was last year and the year before) ... thats not enough to get a pass for a mistake. THOSE things dont matter. All the matters is that a leader , a REAL franchise QB would know when his ass is gonna hit the ground while judging a down marker 75 feet away, running at full tilt. Because EVERY time every other great qb does that they get the first down...

Right. No bias there.

 

[Ozzy]

That's certainly one way to interpret what's happening in this thread, but it's more than a little demeaning, honestly.

Unless you're talking about someone in particular, that's such a dismissive reduction of some far more nuanced posts. They aren't just emotional responses to perceived slights against Geno. Mine aren't, and neither are the posts of @AgentDib

It wouldn't be a fight if there weren't people calling another group of people essentially a band of lemmings out to defend a single player at all costs rather than addressing their valid points thoughtfully. As you say, it takes two to tango.

People on both "sides" in this thread have acted like anuses to one another.

There are real reasons why a slide is an understandable thing for a quarterback to do when near the first down marker with 2 defenders squared up to deliver a hit. Sure, the outcome wasn't optimal. But acting like it isn't an understandable action to take seems a bit obtuse, and any conflict in this thread stems from people being obtuse in response to one another.

How is it demeaning if you guys are making the exact argument in reverse? I’m only pointing out nearly everyone who is always in these debates is operating with a little bias and it shows, myself included.

Saying Geno needed to do what Russ did hundreds of times in crucial downs and later in games isn’t obtuse. You’re proving my point when you say stuff like that. It’s completely reasonable to think he should’ve. I’ve listened to multiple ex players say the exact same thing now as they go over the game. Are they obtuse too? It’s just not understandable in that instance. It’s really not and Geno would agree with me I would bet a pay check on it.

I get your argument sort of I just think you’re wrong. Ask yourself this, let’s say Geno was out for that play and Howell came up short because he slid way too early. I don’t think he would get the same benefit of the doubt.

Like I said earlier maybe we’re being too hard on him because Russ gets that first down every single time in that instance but he was better than most in that regard and maybe we were spoiled and it’s clouding our judgement….its entirely possible?

But you’re right people have been a little rude in this debate on both sides so let’s try to all tone it down moving forward guys.

I’ll admit I think you’re 100% wrong here, doesn’t mean I think you’re dumb, childish, petty or whatever else has been thrown around. I just agree to disagree and that’s ok as is likewise.

 

[keasley45]

I have a theory. Those who wanted Russ gone are very likely to be the ones who want Geno to be elite so bad they caught up in these weird situations where they always come to his defense. Every single thread seems to have the same couple of people defending literally everything. Then you have those who didn’t want Russ gone and they’re more likely to be extra critical of Geno and look for reasons to land in the same arguments. So your argument isn’t wrong but I do think it leaves out half the equation. People’s biases cause them to take odd takes. We see it with the macondald vs Pete stuff too and ironically it’s a lot of the same people.

Geno has been much better than I expected him to be. He’s a good NFL QB but he also at times tends to make some mistakes that are entirely avoidable. It’s probably why it took 10 years to get a starting job. Both can be true and we should all be more objective when he’s good AND bad.

And what great qb in the history of the league only made mistakes that werent avoidable? Remember, some of the same folks making similar, what comes across as 'obtuse' criticisms were the ones clamoring for the likes of BAKER MAYFIELD to be our next 'franchise' guy or pulling for Gardner Minshew snd Jimmy G over Geno. And thise guys dont make 'avoidable' mistakes half a dozen times a game?

Or the lists of in some cases 20 other QBs that again some of the same folks who you guve credit to as just being on the 'equal & opposite' side of the Geno debate, thought would be better here than Geno - because any of them could do what Geno was doing or improve upon it.

Arguments like that IGNORED his play and highlighted elelments of his game that were illogically weighted to offset his positives, or altogether disregard the fact that the elelments of the team around him were (and some still are) among the worst in the league.

Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Anyone can like or dislike whatever player they choose. But personal opinion / bias cannot be argued in the weight / credibility as fact.

And its a slippery slope when a person starts grasping for evidence to present an opinion as fact.

 

[Ozzy]

And what great qb in the history of the league only made mistakes that werent avoidable? Remember, some of the same folks making similar, what comes across as 'obtuse' criticisms were the ones clamoring for the likes of BAKER MAYFIELD to be our next 'franchise' guy or pulling for Gardner Minshew snd Jimmy G over Geno. And thise guys dont make 'avoidable' mistakes half a dozen times a game?

Or the lists of in some cases 20 other QBs that again some of the same folks who you guve credit to as just being on the 'equal & opposite' side of the Geno debate, thought would be better here than Geno - because any of them could do what Geno was doing or improve upon it.

Arguments like that IGNORED his play and highlighted elelments of his game that were illogically weighted to offset his positives, or altogether disregard the fact that the elelments of the team around him were (and some still are) among the worst in the league.

Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Anyone can like or dislike whatever player they choose. But personal opinion / bias cannot be argued in the weight / credibility as fact.

And its a slippery slope when a person starts grasping for evidence to present an opinion as fact.

I’ve said that multiple times. Geno was one of the few things keeping us in that game but he made a mistake there. The fact people had a massive problem with that take sort of proves my point. I was called childish for that take lol.

 

[Ozzy]

I still think Baker may be better?

 

[keasley45]

I’ve said that multiple times. Geno was one of the few things keeping us in that game but he made a mistake there. The fact people had a massive problem with that take sort of proves my point. I was called childish for that take lol.

Definitely a mistake. Its making it THE mistake and loading it up as evidence that he isnt all he is cracked up to be thats the issue.

He slid short on ONE first down. But without the other countless first downs he did make (this week and last) we have zero chance at all.

I think much of this stems from what you said - seeing in Russ a qb that when he broke the pocket and turned up field was more a rb than a qb, and becoming accustomed to it as a standard when its not. And i will grant you that when Russ turned it up, he more often than not got the yards he needed. But he didnt convert EVERY time he ran for it. He just ran so often that his percentage was higher.

But when you look at THAT measure (or assign more weight to it than there should be) and use it do define what it means to be ELITE in the NFL or a Franchise qb in Seattle, you miss the aspects of the game that are actually more important to the sustaianble, reliable success of an offense. Thats to say, sure, when Russ ran, it was magic. It wasnt so much so when he did it and didnt have to. And it wasnt so when we were churning 3 and outs for 40 minutes and not remotely capable of moving the ball until the QB went off script.

And thats the issue. For many the argument isnt what Geno is doing in the context of just great QBing. Its what he ISNT doing that Russ did because Russ, for all his masked flaws, was perceived as THE gold standard for QBing in Seattle.

In that way, the 'slide' is similar to the arguments against Geno that have landed squarely on those things that Russ excelled at.

Accuracy - Russ's hallmark. until Geno showed to be as good or better. So now more weight gets applied to TD to Ints.

'Clutch play' was the 'Russ' standard that folks needed to see until Geno set the record last year for comebacks.

'Deep ball accuracy' - Because thats what Russ was better at... until Geno led the league there as well.

Now - running for the first and sliding perfectly. BTW, Didnt he pull the ball down for a big gainer on the last drive of the game that got them in FG range?

And you've had folks TRY to claim that Geno ALSO didn't utilize the middle of the field, until stats showed he did.

Or that like Russ, he ALSO held the ball too long, until stats showed he's one of the faster in the league to get rid of the ball. ie Geno has the same flaws as Russ.

Or just Geno fundamentally making the game or the way its played, less exciting because it lacks all of the (assumed to be necessary) heroics that Russ brought and rationalizing that because Geno isn't spinning around the backfield every other play, scrambling 55 yards sideline to sideline before heaving a ball 60 yards downfield for a TD, that he isn't a real 'franchise ' qb. Like Kurt Warner said in analyzing Russ- ' it doesnt alway have to be so hard' . In other words - make the plays the way you are supposed to and your job is easier. Geno has done that in spades and gets knocked for it.

 

[Ozzy]

I appreciate the well thought out responses but that is a lot to read! I will read it though.

I’m impressed you showed restraint with my Baker comment!

I know I’m not going to convince anyone Baker is better than Geno but look at last year and this years stats. He’s at least much better than you guys thought he’d be.