Bump: Why Seahawks made right call with OC pick

[SuperSonic67]

If somebody mentions the eye test to others on this board, they get crucified and told they don't know anything because so and so stats point to something else. Strange how that works.

Were you ever a professional football player, or anyone else on here? Eye tests are generally more accepted from someone who actually played in the NFL. I can’t believe I actually have to even post that…unreal

 

[nanomoz]

Were you ever a professional football player, or anyone else on here? Eye tests are generally more accepted from someone who actually played in the NFL. I can’t believe I actually have to even post that…unreal

You know who didn't play nfl football? Or even college football?

Mike Macdonald.

 

[toffee]

You know who didn't play nfl football? Or even college football?

Mike Macdonald.

But he is a genius, right?

 

[bileever]

And more evidence that points to being less than enthused?

Have you looked at hiw his offense trended in 2021 in Minnesota?

In 2021, kubiaks offense averaged 414 yards per game with a high 571in the first 6 week. Over the last 6 game? 329.

Take out a dud of a game against the Browns and his offense averaged 28 ppg over his first 6 games. He averaged 24 over the last 6.

1st downs? His offense averaged 22.4 over the first 6 weeks, 16.8 over the last 6.

Passing yards - 288 over the first 6 weeks. 217 over the last 6.

Folks give him a pass for the fall off last year due to injury. But his offense fell off in Minnesota as well and not by a little bit. And that was BEFORE he went to SF to learn from Shanahan.

Are there other contributing factors that impacted the offense? Sure. Minnesotas defense wasnt great that year for one. But acting as though we should all be excited JUST because the dude runs motion and whatever else... its like getting excited about a car because it has nice wheels, cool paint job, a wing on the back and the exhaust sounds cool. Those are all things a great sports car might have. But absent real engineering, its all just tacked on sh't from pep'boys.

Lets see what he does

Appreciate the deep dive into the 2021 Vikings season. I agree that it doesn't look great for Kubiak that he wasn't more successful with a team that had Cousins, Jefferson and Dalvin Cook at the height of his career. (I would concede that they had a below average offensive line that year, however.)

It was an up and down year for Kubiak in 2021. Definitely some success, like the 571 yard effort against the Panthers as you pointed out. They also had 458 yards against the Steelers, which btw, was in the last 6 games. Not that this negates your point about his performance at the end of the year, but a Cousins injury forced the Vikings to play Sean Mannion in one of the last 6 games.

I think it's interesting that he's been better in the beginning of the season and not as good near the end, as if the league figures out what he's doing and schemes a way to stop him. Hopefully, he'll see that he'll need to counter that in the future.

 

[SuperSonic67]

You know who didn't play nfl football? Or even college football?

Mike Macdonald.

What’s your point? Mike Macdonald isn’t Michael Bumpus.

 

[SuperSonic67]

You’re certainly not comparing Mike Macdonald to the peeps on this forum I hope

 

[pittpnthrs]

Were you ever a professional football player, or anyone else on here? Eye tests are generally more accepted from someone who actually played in the NFL. I can’t believe I actually have to even post that…unreal

Oh we got one of those that can't accept anybodys observations or opinions unless they played pro ball. Lol. Cute, but get out of here with that garbage. It doesn't take a pro athlete or a rocket scientist for that matter to recognize whats going on out on the field.

 

[Wolfiegrrl]

"You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." I'm just going to keep that in mind while I read this message board. I am excited for Klint Kubiak to get to work here. Will he be great? Who the F really knows! But he'll be better than what we had last year with I-don't-use-running-backs-Grubb.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Give the dude a chance. Seems pretty simple

 

[DarkVictory23]

And... if you listen to the interview D Jeremiah just did with Brock and Salk on Kubiak, he said a few positive things about Kubiaks offense, the biggest being its fairly common in the league so its easy to get personnel to fit it.

Biggest drawback? When you fall behind in a game its a difficult system to consistently come back in.

Ironically, there was an interview i was listening to today on Wymans program where he spoke to Mathew Paras a journalist who covers the Saints in NO. His biggest criticism of Kubiaks system? When they fell behind, they struggled to claw there way back. He acknowledged that the injuries were likely part of the problem... but not all of it.

So again, color me not enthused until I can see proof he is something more than what he has shown himself to be.

Interesting re: Responding to a deficit with Kubiak's system. Going to have to go back and watch some of New Orleans games this year and get a feel for why that issue is. My initial thoughts, though:

First, I think it should be noted that injuries were probably a big part of the problem. New Orleans literally only had 3 games with their starting QB, RB, WR, and TE playing together, and that was done by Week 4. They finished the season with literally all 4 of them out for the final 3 weeks.

Now, New Orleans did bring in Marquez Valdes-Scantling over in Week 9 to replace Shaheed, so that nets you an additional 4 games with 'core' offensive weapons that you can kind of look at as an honest barometer of Kubiak's scheme.

Put simply though, if we went into Week 7 down Geno, DK, JSN, and then lost Walker in Week 15... well, I don't think I'd expect us to be able to claw back into many games either and I would assume that a lot of the playbook had been thrown out the window.


Second, I think part of the issue might be Derek Carr, who just isn't great in those situations. From 2022 - 2024, Carr is ranked 24th of 32 in ANY/A and 26th of 32 in Passer Rating while trailing with 4 minutes or less to go.


That said, the 7* games where they do have their core weapons are worth a look at, so I'll probably be spending some time looking at those. In particular, they had 3 games in that span where they played teams we faced this year (2 Atlanta games and the Rams) and 1 against a good defense (Browns game).

 

[toffee]

Second, I think part of the issue might be Derek Carr, who just isn't great in those situations. From 2022 - 2024, Carr is ranked 24th of 32 in ANY/A and 26th of 32 in Passer Rating while trailing with 4 minutes or less to go.

Then we are screwed, I read on .NET that Carr is better than Geno. Oh wait, we have Howell, who may be better than Carr, he just needs coaching and opportunities

 

[OneLofaTatupu]

My

Which is why I find it odd our biggest Geno supporters seem to be the ones that aren't thrilled about Kubiak. He is bringing everything they complained Grubb didn't use. I don't get it. Well I do have a theory but that's for another time.

My theory is sunk cost fallacy

 

[Ozzy]

Kubiak is going to be fine. I'm excited to see what he does and sometimes a fresh start allows you to fix some things too. He's very well respected for a reason.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep. This will be fun to revisit later.
And yes, for the record I was stoked about Grubb.

But this hire is totally different, imo. Kubiak has a ton of experience in the NFL.

 

[Ozzy]

Then we are screwed, I read on .NET that Carr is better than Geno. Oh wait, we have Howell, who may be better than Carr, he just needs coaching and opportunities

I don't know why Carr being better than Geno is controversial. Here is there career stats:

Geno

94

1721

2655

64.8

19,143

7.2

105

72

84

222

88.0

Carr

169

3765

5785

65.1

41,245

7.1

257

112

87

303

92.8

He's been objectively better than Geno his whole career. He is better now? I think its a reasonable debate for both sides. If they could sign Carr for quite a bit cheaper than Geno then I would be all over it. He knows the offense and at worst is close to Geno and that allows you to spend some money elsewhere like the line.

 

[GetNjigbaWithIt]

Biggest drawback? When you fall behind in a game its a difficult system to consistently come back in.

That's kind of what Kyle Shanahan is known for as well.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I don't know why Carr being better than Geno is controversial. Here is their career stats:

Geno

94

1721

2655

64.8

19,143

7.2

105

72

84

222

88.0

Carr

169

3765

5785

65.1

41,245

7.1

257

112

87

303

92.8

He's been objectively better than Geno his whole career. He is better now? I think its a reasonable debate for both sides. If they could sign Carr for quite a bit cheaper than Geno then I would be all over it. He knows the offense and at worst is close to Geno and that allows you to spend some money elsewhere like the line.

Thx for sharing. I've never understood the Carr hate. He's a pretty sold QB. And 41K plus passing yards and a 65 percent completion percentage? Pretty damn good career overall, and on some average teams. Not making a claim on who is better etc. But it's not like Carr hasn't produced in his career.

 

[toffee]

I don't know why Carr being better than Geno is controversial. Here is there career stats:

Geno

94

1721

2655

64.8

19,143

7.2

105

72

84

222

88.0

Carr

169

3765

5785

65.1

41,245

7.1

257

112

87

303

92.8

He's been objectively better than Geno his whole career. He is better now? I think its a reasonable debate for both sides. If they could sign Carr for quite a bit cheaper than Geno then I would be all over it. He knows the offense and at worst is close to Geno and that allows you to spend some money elsewhere like the line.

So our offense under Kubiak/Geno would be less than the Kubiak/Carr offense, luckily we have Howell, a diamond just needs that artisan.

 

[toffee]

Thx for sharing. I've never understood the Carr hate. He's a pretty sold QB. And 41K plus passing yards and a 65 percent completion percentage? Pretty damn good career overall, and on some average teams. Not making a claim on who is better etc. But it's not like Carr hasn't produced in his career.

open to trading for Carr as our bridge?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

And more evidence that points to being less than enthused?

Have you looked at hiw his offense trended in 2021 in Minnesota?

In 2021, kubiaks offense averaged 414 yards per game with a high 571in the first 6 week. Over the last 6 game? 329.

Take out a dud of a game against the Browns and his offense averaged 28 ppg over his first 6 games. He averaged 24 over the last 6.

1st downs? His offense averaged 22.4 over the first 6 weeks, 16.8 over the last 6.

Passing yards - 288 over the first 6 weeks. 217 over the last 6.

Folks give him a pass for the fall off last year due to injury. But his offense fell off in Minnesota as well and not by a little bit. And that was BEFORE he went to SF to learn from Shanahan.

Are there other contributing factors that impacted the offense? Sure. Minnesotas defense wasnt great that year for one. But acting as though we should all be excited JUST because the dude runs motion and whatever else... its like getting excited about a car because it has nice wheels, cool paint job, a wing on the back and the exhaust sounds cool. Those are all things a great sports car might have. But absent real engineering, its all just tacked on sh't from pep'boys.

Lets see what he does

Jesus - if you're like gonna let facts and stuff kill the "He's not ******* Grubb" vibe.....

I'm going to roll around in "He's not ******* Grubb" for a week or two before I worry too much about reality