Bump: Why Seahawks made right call with OC pick

SuperSonic67

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Oh we got one of those that can't accept anybodys observations or opinions unless they played pro ball. Lol. Cute, but get out of here with that garbage. It doesn't take a pro athlete or a rocket scientist for that matter to recognize whats going on out on the field.
Yep, nailed it
 

toffee

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Oh we got one of those that can't accept anybodys observations or opinions unless they played pro ball. Lol. Cute, but get out of here with that garbage. It doesn't take a pro athlete or a rocket scientist for that matter to recognize whats going on out on the field.

Yep, nailed it

What is knowledge and experience in comparison to eyeballs on .NET? After all dotNET eyeballs watched games with passion, lust, and at times turbocharged with chanting under the influence of adult beverages.
 

keasley45

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We're getting a bit off point. I'm not talking about certain plays or even certain games. When I throw the phrase 'eye test' around, I was leaning more towards over an extended period of time. An example is if I whatch so and so player for 3 or 4 seasons and that player has certain traits that are consistent, i'm comfortable with pointing it out regardless of the variables.

No, I agree with that if a play fails and it looks to be the fault of an individual player, it's worth looking further into it to see what the cause was.

Thats fine. But sometimes eyes function as much to confirm a bias as they do anything else.

Theres an element of emotion that drives the eyeball test sometimes if one doesnt possess the discipline or skill (or chooses not to apply it) to set aside feelings about a team or player. And thats fine. Its football, followed by fanatics. Its not science... on the one hand...

And yet on the other, it is.
 

Rat

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I don't know why Carr being better than Geno is controversial. Here is there career stats:

Geno
941721265564.819,1437.2105728422288.0

Carr
1693765578565.141,2457.12571128730392.8

He's been objectively better than Geno his whole career. He is better now? I think its a reasonable debate for both sides. If they could sign Carr for quite a bit cheaper than Geno then I would be all over it. He knows the offense and at worst is close to Geno and that allows you to spend some money elsewhere like the line.
I'm starting to wonder if I've been a bit myopic on Carr over the years. For some reason, I've always kinda viewed him as a mediocre starter who should be a backup, but has been lucky to get into situations where he's difficult to replace. Kind of a Ryan Fitzpatrick lite.

Looking into things lately, even last season, which was viewed as a disappointment, the advanced stats reflect very well on Carr. Apparently, he's great under pressure. I know PFF had him as their highest-rated QB in the NFC shockingly late into the season. Hopefully that means something good about the system he was in.

I'm not sure where all this is coming from that Geno is so much more proficient than Carr in late-game action. I assume it's game winning drives since I know Geno has a few of those. Leaguewide, this past season was a bit of an abberation, as Mahomes had a ton of them in a crazy-ass Chiefs season that defied many statistical standards, but historically, game winning drives are very overrated as a volume statistic. Just last season, the four QBs in the conference championships had five of them combined, which was just one more than Desmond Ridder had on his own. Over the previous two seasons, Kenny Pickett was tied with Geno for third-most. Kirk Cousins had eight of them a few years back which destroyed the rest of the league, with the next highest at five. It's largely a stat of opportunity.

Even still, Carr is third among active QBs in those, and the two ahead of him are Stafford, who was drafted five years before him, and Russ, who was drafted two years prior. He has more than Aaron Rodgers, who became a full-time starter six years before Carr was drafted. Carr has led the league before and had at least three in seven separate seasons, and three with at least five, including one year with seven. He has succeeded in that situation plenty.

I wouldn't say I'm interested in acquiring him because I have concerns he's breaking down physically, but I think there's reason to believe he would do better than expected if he were brought in. I'll bet if both started for the average team for a full season, there'd be a negligible difference in record.
 

Fresno Hawk

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Carr, is a very good Qb. He has been on some terrible Raider teams and when with the Saints he got hurt or would have had a great season. I definitely wouldn't mind him playing for the Hawks.
 

Ozzy

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I'm starting to wonder if I've been a bit myopic on Carr over the years. For some reason, I've always kinda viewed him as a mediocre starter who should be a backup, but has been lucky to get into situations where he's difficult to replace. Kind of a Ryan Fitzpatrick lite.

Looking into things lately, even last season, which was viewed as a disappointment, the advanced stats reflect very well on Carr. Apparently, he's great under pressure. I know PFF had him as their highest-rated QB in the NFC shockingly late into the season. Hopefully that means something good about the system he was in.

I'm not sure where all this is coming from that Geno is so much more proficient than Carr in late-game action. I assume it's game winning drives since I know Geno has a few of those. Leaguewide, this past season was a bit of an abberation, as Mahomes had a ton of them in a crazy-ass Chiefs season that defied many statistical standards, but historically, game winning drives are very overrated as a volume statistic. Just last season, the four QBs in the conference championships had five of them combined, which was just one more than Desmond Ridder had on his own. Over the previous two seasons, Kenny Pickett was tied with Geno for third-most. Kirk Cousins had eight of them a few years back which destroyed the rest of the league, with the next highest at five. It's largely a stat of opportunity.

Even still, Carr is third among active QBs in those, and the two ahead of him are Stafford, who was drafted five years before him, and Russ, who was drafted two years prior. He has more than Aaron Rodgers, who became a full-time starter six years before Carr was drafted. Carr has led the league before and had at least three in seven separate seasons, and three with at least five, including one year with seven. He has succeeded in that situation plenty.

I wouldn't say I'm interested in acquiring him because I have concerns he's breaking down physically, but I think there's reason to believe he would do better than expected if he were brought in. I'll bet if both started for the average team for a full season, there'd be a negligible difference in record.

Great post. I think at the least the idea that it's laughable that Carr is close to Geno is a bad take.

I think I agree with just about everything you said.
 

SeaWolv

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Let me ask you something. Do you ever form your own opinions or do you need to be told what to think?
Of course not but that's not what we were talking about. You're trying to defend the validity of the "eye test" by anonymous posters on this site as a justification for their claims and I'm rejecting that.
 

SeaWolv

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Oh please. Spare us. I, like many others on here I'm sure, have been watching the Hawks and football since the 80's. I'm pretty sure we know what a well functioning offense looks like and who has the "it" factor and who doesn't, and GePick over the last few years with different OC's is definitely the latter.
You have a right to your opinion but don't expect others here to agree with you because of what you're eyes are telling you, when actual trained and experienced professionals state otherwise.
 

SeaWolv

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Oh we got one of those that can't accept anybodys observations or opinions unless they played pro ball. Lol. Cute, but get out of here with that garbage. It doesn't take a pro athlete or a rocket scientist for that matter to recognize whats going on out on the field.
Why should he? It may not take a pro athlete or coach to tell you what happened on the field but it does take those people to tell you why it happened and that's the point.
 

SuperSonic67

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I do have a sneaking suspicion that Pete is going to go hard after Geno, and hope to grab Sanders as well either at 6 or will try to move up. I think his Dad would love for him to be a Raider…just my opinion of course. We’ll see I guess. The idea he’d have to sit a year or two behind Geno might not sit well…
 

toffee

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Of course not but that's not what we were talking about. You're trying to defend the validity of the "eye test" by anonymous posters on this site as a justification for their claims and I'm rejecting that.
Unsolicited advise:

Stuffs like critical thinking, inference, logical deductions are frown upon on .NET.
 

pittpnthrs

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Of course not but that's not what we were talking about. You're trying to defend the validity of the "eye test" by anonymous posters on this site as a justification for their claims and I'm rejecting that.

So basically nobody on this forum or anywhere else has a valid opinion? That's pretty shortsighted.
 

pittpnthrs

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Why should he? It may not take a pro athlete or coach to tell you what happened on the field but it does take those people to tell you why it happened and that's the point.

Sometimes players make stupid decisions and make bad plays. I don't need anybody to tell me the reason for that. You shouldn't either.
 

DarkVictory23

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For those wondering where the 'idea' Geno plays better in situations where a team needs to come from behind, it comes from Geno playing much, much better in those situations.

2022-2024 (Min. 20 Games, 50 plays)

Team is Trailing, with 4 minutes or less in the 4th Quarter

Passing Touchdowns:

Geno - 11 (1st)
Carr - 5 (Tied - 6th)

Total Touchdowns:
Geno - 12 (1st)
Carr - 5 (Tied - 9th)

Passer Rating:
Geno - 103.2 (3rd)
Carr - 61.5 (26th)

ANY/A:
Geno - 8.20 (4th)
Carr - 4.68 (24th)

Completion Percentage:
Geno - 63.7 (5th)
Carr - 44.6 (32nd... out of 32)


Geno has literally been one of the absolute best QBs in the entire league in these situations and Derek Carr has been mediocre at best. Carr, overall, is a decent QB, same tier as Geno generally speaking (IMO)... but it's not particularly close in come from behind situations.


So, again, to whatever degree Kubiak's system failed to 'come from behind' because of the level of QB play, we are going to be much better off with Geno than Carr, hands down. To whatever degree that's because Kubiak's offense just isn't designed well for it? Well, this will be dude's 3rd-ish season as an OC, there's always the chance he adapts further.
 

SuperSonic67

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No one said
So basically nobody on this forum or anywhere else has a valid opinion? That's pretty shortsighted.
well I personally wasn’t saying there’s no validity to posters and their thoughts on here, including mine. I’m just saying I will take the word of someone who works the craft every day as a coach or a player over someone that doesn’t…

I may think the cashier at WalMart isn’t good at what they do, but I’m not equipped to train them to do better, because I’ve never done it. It’s all relative no matter what your profession is.
 

toffee

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For those wondering where the 'idea' Geno plays better in situations where a team needs to come from behind, it comes from Geno playing much, much better in those situations.

2022-2024 (Min. 20 Games, 50 plays)

Team is Trailing, with 4 minutes or less in the 4th Quarter

Passing Touchdowns:

Geno - 11 (1st)
Carr - 5 (Tied - 6th)

Total Touchdowns:
Geno - 12 (1st)
Carr - 5 (Tied - 9th)

Passer Rating:
Geno - 103.2 (3rd)
Carr - 61.5 (26th)

ANY/A:
Geno - 8.20 (4th)
Carr - 4.68 (24th)

Completion Percentage:
Geno - 63.7 (5th)
Carr - 44.6 (32nd... out of 32)


Geno has literally been one of the absolute best QBs in the entire league in these situations and Derek Carr has been mediocre at best. Carr, overall, is a decent QB, same tier as Geno generally speaking (IMO)... but it's not particularly close in come from behind situations.


So, again, to whatever degree Kubiak's system failed to 'come from behind' because of the level of QB play, we are going to be much better off with Geno than Carr, hands down. To whatever degree that's because Kubiak's offense just isn't designed well for it? Well, this will be dude's 3rd-ish season as an OC, there's always the chance he adapts further.
There's a good chance Geno may not be with the Hawks next season, so, how much better could Kubiak's magic tansform Howell or that drafted QBOTF?
 

SeaWolv

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So basically nobody on this forum or anywhere else has a valid opinion? That's pretty shortsighted.
Not what I'm saying AT ALL. What I am saying it just because your "eye test" tells you something like "Geno's play is bad he's throwing picks!" and then I hear people like Huard or Schlereth say it's a combination of poor play call, poor blocking execution and poor route running, I'm way more likely to believe it's more nuanced as Schlereth and Huard suggest and not as simple as you did.
 

pittpnthrs

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No one said

well I personally wasn’t saying there’s no validity to posters and their thoughts on here, including mine. I’m just saying I will take the word of someone who works the craft every day as a coach or a player over someone that doesn’t…

I may think the cashier at WalMart isn’t good at what they do, but I’m not equipped to train them to do better, because I’ve never done it. It’s all relative no matter what your profession is.

Fair
 

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