Bump: Why Seahawks made right call with OC pick

rjdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
3,164
Reaction score
1,944
Location
Utah
Biggest drawback? When you fall behind in a game its a difficult system to consistently come back in.
Was Grubbs’s system an easier one to consistently come back in once falling behind? I’m sincerely asking, no passive aggressiveness.

I lack in X’s and O’s compared to most of you (which is why I love learning from you guys), but isn’t the universal difficulty of falling behind in the NFL why you don’t want to do it in the first place?
 

DarkVictory23

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
1,933
Reaction score
2,840
Was Grubbs’s system an easier one to consistently come back in once falling behind? I’m sincerely asking, no passive aggressiveness.

I lack in X’s and O’s compared to most of you (which is why I love learning from you guys), but isn’t the universal difficulty of falling behind in the NFL why you don’t want to do it in the first place?
I have just started watching the film of some of the Saints games when they had their core offensive unit in place (for anyone else who is interested: Weeks 1, 2, & 4 are the only ones with their actual starting group, but weeks 9, 10, 11, & 13 after they signed MVS to replace Shaheed would also represent an honest look at his scheme).

So far, the biggest thing that stands out to me is--they don't stop running the ball. They fall behind, they still run the ball. They are off schedule on 1st or 2nd down? They still run the ball.

On one hand, this is a nice change from Grubb who would seemingly throw that section of his playbook in the garbage the moment we got down by a single point. We put ourselves in bad situations when we seemingly ignored the value of our current field position or draining clock in a desperate bid to score.

On the other hand... running the ball to score points almost always takes a lot more clock and a lot more individual plays. If I fall behind with 8 minutes to go in the 4th, go pass heavy at that point, if it works, I take the lead on this drive. If it doesn't, I probably killed so little clock that if my defense makes a stop, I'll get another shot at it. Run heavy? That drive starting with 8 minutes left might be the last time I get the ball.

This is exactly what went down against the Rams in Week 13. Rams went up, 21 to 14 with over 8 minutes left in the 4th. New Orleans takes over at their own 30, drive all the way down to the 9 yard line before turning it over on downs... with only a little over a minute left. 1 first down run later, and the Rams are kneeling out the clock.
 

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
4,939
Reaction score
8,896
Location
Cockeysville, Md
Was Grubbs’s system an easier one to consistently come back in once falling behind? I’m sincerely asking, no passive aggressiveness.

I lack in X’s and O’s compared to most of you (which is why I love learning from you guys), but isn’t the universal difficulty of falling behind in the NFL why you don’t want to do it in the first place?
Nope, because it was one dimensional. If a defense could cover the matchup Grubbs scheme was trying to exploit, they won. And rather than adjust to what defenses were doing, he insisted on using the one tool he was master of in college and stubbornly held on to it while our line fatigued , failed, and then the sacks started to tally up.

We didnt run under Grubb. We didnt tip the field to keep defenses off balance once they figured out what we were doing. The ONLY way Grubb could succeed is if Geno was afforded eons to allow the matchups to win.
 

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
13,826
Reaction score
2,217
Kubiak can handle whatever roster or injury report he has to work with. He's up to the task.

 

Smellyman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
7,347
Reaction score
1,335
Location
Taipei
And more evidence that points to being less than enthused?

Have you looked at hiw his offense trended in 2021 in Minnesota?

In 2021, kubiaks offense averaged 414 yards per game with a high 571in the first 6 week. Over the last 6 game? 329.

Take out a dud of a game against the Browns and his offense averaged 28 ppg over his first 6 games. He averaged 24 over the last 6.

1st downs? His offense averaged 22.4 over the first 6 weeks, 16.8 over the last 6.

Passing yards - 288 over the first 6 weeks. 217 over the last 6.

Folks give him a pass for the fall off last year due to injury. But his offense fell off in Minnesota as well and not by a little bit. And that was BEFORE he went to SF to learn from Shanahan.

Are there other contributing factors that impacted the offense? Sure. Minnesotas defense wasnt great that year for one. But acting as though we should all be excited JUST because the dude runs motion and whatever else... its like getting excited about a car because it has nice wheels, cool paint job, a wing on the back and the exhaust sounds cool. Those are all things a great sports car might have. But absent real engineering, its all just tacked on sh't from pep'boys.

Lets see what he does
Meh. there are probably few NFL teams that have better 2nd half offensive numbers than first. Weather is a big factor around the league especially in the NFC north.
 

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
4,939
Reaction score
8,896
Location
Cockeysville, Md
Meh. there are probably few NFL teams that have better 2nd half offensive numbers than first. Weather is a big factor around the league especially in the NFC north.

Correct. The few that make the playoffs.

We have gone 3 years now with coordinators who's offenses are figured out by mid season. The teams in the post-season who contend, get better in November and December, not worse. Having an offense who's numbers are worse over the last half of the season than the beginning...

Thats a recipe for failure.
 
Last edited:

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
11,361
Reaction score
6,033
Probably won’t happen if traded Carr has a $40 million cap hit for the Saints in 2025
I like the idea of Carr for cheap as he knows the offense, has been more productive than people realize etc but not at a 40 million cap hit lol.
 

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
11,361
Reaction score
6,033
Nope, because it was one dimensional. If a defense could cover the matchup Grubbs scheme was trying to exploit, they won. And rather than adjust to what defenses were doing, he insisted on using the one tool he was master of in college and stubbornly held on to it while our line fatigued , failed, and then the sacks started to tally up.

We didnt run under Grubb. We didnt tip the field to keep defenses off balance once they figured out what we were doing. The ONLY way Grubb could succeed is if Geno was afforded eons to allow the matchups to win.
I think we all miss the boat a little on Grubbs offense. Overall the numbers are really similar to previous years. Sometimes we make it seem like we couldn't move the ball at all and the whole thing was one massive failure that was easy for teams to figure out. That wasn't the case.

We actually did some good things and for the most part we were able to move the ball very well. Grubb, Geno, the line however we want to split the blame and I would argue you can make a decent argument for all of it, just got bogged down situationally. A lot of bad offenses just struggle every play it seems like, that wasn't the case for us.

I think we can all agree it was just a really weird year for the offense and lets fresh start this thing next year by fixing some of the known variables and see what happens. I know JOhn doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt but I feel really confident he's going to attack the interior of the line and we have an experienced play caller. If Geno is as good as some of you guys think this offense could have a massive rebound and I hope it does.
 

Ozzy

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
11,361
Reaction score
6,033
Maybe? But we're all just fans and its fun to talk about this stuff and act like we know everything. Sure I will put stock in it depending on someone's prior experience but its still fun to talk about.
 

SeaWolv

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
1,721
Reaction score
1,060
So it has to be from a former player and nobody else's opinion has any validity. Got it.
When it comes to me trusting someone's opinion, it has to be someone who has a lot of experience judging these things. Coming from someone on this forum, I have no idea what their background is and if they tell me I have no way to know if it's the truth.
 

pittpnthrs

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
3,009
Exactly. There are degrees of eye test depending on how much you know about the game.

If I watch a player enough and see certain tendencies, that's good enough for me. I don't need pages of numbers to tell me what i'm seeing.
 

pittpnthrs

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
3,009
When it comes to me trusting someone's opinion, it has to be someone who has a lot of experience judging these things. Coming from someone on this forum, I have no idea what their background is and if they tell me I have no way to know if it's the truth.

Let me ask you something. Do you ever form your own opinions or do you need to be told what to think?
 

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
4,939
Reaction score
8,896
Location
Cockeysville, Md
If I watch a player enough and see certain tendencies, that's good enough for me. I don't need pages of numbers to tell me what i'm seeing.

Thats cool that your eyetest is good enough for you. That eye test, absent real, concrete information about the who, how, what, and when of a play doesnt mean much.

Its why you have virtually every coach in the league often delay responding to questions about why X player played poorly or why Y player failed, or who was to blame for a play or adjustment not working. Because the EYE Test might point to one thing, while the game tape, or for a player, a proven track record of NOT failing in the give scenario exposes the truth.

The eye test tells you nothing about who was responsible for what on a play, whether its exactly when a qb was supposed to get rid of the ball and didnt, resulting in what looked like a failure of the line in blocking, or an INt that looked like the qb overthrew the play, when in reality, the wr ran the wrong route.

Brady's eye test goes signifucantly deeper on a player than most any fan because he can see many of the factors that contribute to a play working or not. He's not just looking at the result.
 

pittpnthrs

Well-known member
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
6,188
Reaction score
3,009
Thats cool that your eyetest is good enough for you. That eye test, absent real, concrete information about the who, how, what, and when of a play doesnt mean much.

Its why you have virtually every coach in the league often delay responding to questions about why X player played poorly or why Y player failed, or who was to blame for a play or adjustment not working. Because the EYE Test might point to one thing, while the game tape, or for a player, a proven track record of NOT failing in the give scenario exposes the truth.

The eye test tells you nothing about who was responsible for what on a play, whether its exactly when a qb was supposed to get rid of the ball and didnt, resulting in what looked like a failure of the line in blocking, or an INt that looked like the qb overthrew the play, when in reality, the wr ran the wrong route.

Brady's eye test goes signifucantly deeper on a player than most any fan because he can see many of the factors that contribute to a play working or not. He's not just looking at the result.

We're getting a bit off point. I'm not talking about certain plays or even certain games. When I throw the phrase 'eye test' around, I was leaning more towards over an extended period of time. An example is if I whatch so and so player for 3 or 4 seasons and that player has certain traits that are consistent, i'm comfortable with pointing it out regardless of the variables.

No, I agree with that if a play fails and it looks to be the fault of an individual player, it's worth looking further into it to see what the cause was.
 

Hawkinaz

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
1,883
Reaction score
1,321
Location
Henry County, Virginia
I like the idea of Carr for cheap as he knows the offense, has been more productive than people realize etc but not at a 40 million cap hit lol.
The $40 million dead cap hit would be charged to the Saints it was guaranteed money. To get rid of a player some teams would eat the dead cap hit. Going into 2025 Saints are already $50 million over the cap
 

Double Tribble

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
2,107
Reaction score
1,687
Eye test from Tom Brady, listening. Eye test from random internet guy, no thanks.
Oh please. Spare us. I, like many others on here I'm sure, have been watching the Hawks and football since the 80's. I'm pretty sure we know what a well functioning offense looks like and who has the "it" factor and who doesn't, and GePick over the last few years with different OC's is definitely the latter.
 

Latest posts

Top