Hawkscanner's Post-Draft Breakdown: OFFENSE

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
Yesterday, we started taking a look at the Seahawks Draft this past weekend, trying to make sense out of what they did on Defense … and looking at their Draft in context of what they already had and how those new draft choices appear to fit in. It’s been both a fun and informative exercise for me personally. Thanks to everyone who’s expressed their support. It’s greatly appreciated and I can only hope that people will find today’s piece (which will conclude by focusing on the Offense) equally informative. Let me again start off this conversation off by reviewing how I generally view Drafts.

Here are some general thoughts that run through my mind when I judge NFL Drafts as a whole …

1] As I mentioned yesterday, I have to kind of laugh a bit at the whole notion of grading these drafts right after the conclusion of the draft. I’ve been following the NFL Draft pretty closely since about 1990 and I’ve learned that you cannot truly evaluate how a team did for perhaps 2 or even 3 years down the line. Sure we can gain a sense based upon all available info up until this point, but until those players actually get on the field and steeped in an NFL system, you just can’t really come to any definitive conclusions.

2] When a team drafts a player, that move has to be understood and evaluated in context. What does the team itself already look like? What pieces are already there? How is that player that the team just drafted going to use him? What’s his role going to be? What are that player’s strengths and weaknesses -- how is the team going to put that player in the best position possible to maximize their talents and mask their weaknesses in order to best help the team?

3] What are the greatest weaknesses of the team as a whole? Where are the holes … and how does that player help to fill those?

4] What system does the team run and what are their overall philosophies? For example, if I’m a team (like the Seahawks) that loves to run the football and values tough, smash mouth, ram it down your throat ball … it wouldn’t make any sense to draft an offensive linemen who was more of a finesse player who was more of a pass protector and not really up for getting bloody.

So without further ado, let’s kick this off by taking a look at what most 12’s (me included) considered without a doubt THE #1 position of concern coming into this offseason – the Offensive Line …

Offensive Line …

I don’t think there are many 12’s out there who will disagree that Offensive Line has been this team’s Black Hole – a vortex that has swallowed up seemingly everything in its path (including Russell Wilson). Wilson got banged around and banged up behind that Offensive Line and the offense as a whole suffered until he began to get healed up. Seattle’s O-Line ended up allowing 42 sacks last year – 6th most in the league. Saying that’s got to improve is a huge Captain Obvious statement. 2016 also saw the Seahawks go through a bit of an identity crisis, as up until that point they had prided themselves on being a team that loved smash mouth football. They have historically been all about running the ball, controlling the clock, and wearing down opponents – all signature core values of Pete Carroll that he’s talked about and espoused on multiple occasions. All of that seemingly went out the window, as the Hawks simply could not put together any consistent running game. The Hawks run game ended the season ranked 25th overall in terms of yards gained from scrimmage (1591 yards). One thing’s for sure, unless we see overall improvement in the play of the Offensive Line, the run game is going to continue to sputter and Russell Wilson is at serious risk of getting killed.

Before we get into discussion about these draft picks, let’s focus on the pieces that were already here prior to the draft.

Not all was doom and gloom for the Seahawks O-Line last year, as C Justin Britt was named to the Pro Bowl as an alternate. Justin Britt should serve as a huge example for fans (myself included), who were ready to wash their hands of him after failed experiments at basically every other position along the line. The difference between failure and success in the NFL is most often times razor thin and can be attributed to a number of factors. A player that has sucked in the past … can suddenly become competent or even good by perfecting a new technique ... simply gaining knowledge and insights … or changing positions on the field. That’s certainly what Tom Cable and the Seahawks are hoping for from this young group. Heading into the 2016 season, the only returning starter (Britt was transitioning to Center, so can’t be lumped into that category), was Right Tackle Gary Gilliam (who just left in free agency for the 49ers – good luck with that). Everyone else – (Britt was new at Center, Mark Glowinski was a 1st year starter at LG, rookie German Ifedi at RG, George Fant at LT) – were brand new starters. This group certainly took their lumps, so hopefully the school of hard knocks taught these guys some lessons that they can take with them into this season. And I believe they have and that there are reasons for some optimism.

Many Seahawks.Netters have already discovered Coleman Crawford, who is a quickly rising star as far as breaking down and analyzing game film. He’s taken a look at a few offensive linemen for the Hawks and has some really good insights on their strengths, weaknesses, and how they project moving forward. One of the more encouraging bits of breakdowns of his was on George Fant. Fant’s quick feet and overall athleticism readily stand out on tape. He very clearly shows Fant’s skillset that the coaching staff is so excited about, his overall improvement, and argues quite convincingly (given time) that Fant can be the Left Tackle of the future. For a guy who hadn’t started a football game since Pee Wee Football and had NEVER played offensive line before in his life, that’s pretty fricking amazing.

BUT, Fant is going to need time … which may in fact be the reason why the Hawks went out there in Free Agency and signed Luke Joeckel. In Joeckel, people sometimes forget you have a guy who was at one time the 2nd player taken overall in the NFL Draft (2013). Joeckel has very good feet, is athletic, and moves around well.

Crawford’s tape breakdown on him is very good and he shows that more times than not, Joeckel actually did his job fairly well. Joeckel played mostly left guard for the Jags in 2016, but was drafted as a Left Tackle and has the skillset to play there. I personally believe we’ll either see him at Left Tackle this season (and give Fant a chance to continue learning the position) or at Left Guard this year.

I believe one of the bigger problems last year was starting Germaine Ifedi at Right Guard, after he had spent most of his time in college at Right Tackle. Ifedi has a tendency to stand too tall for a guard and since it appears that’s where his strengths and experience lie anyway, the coaching staff is going to give him a chance to compete for the starting Right Tackle spot in 2017.

Turning our attention towards the Draft, it’s important to gain an understanding for what it is that the Seahawks appear to value in terms of the kinds of players they tend to target. For those fans who keep up with player evaluation, it’s generally become understood that the Seahawks (and many other teams) value qualities such as size, length, athleticism, speed, power, etc. SPARQ has become one of those stats that has started to become recognized … but another that has perhaps become equally (if not more valued) – especially when it comes to looking at the kinds of players the Seahawks tend to like – is SLA (stands for Size, Length, and Athleticism). It’s an interesting metric developed by Ethan Young, that goes beyond SPARQ and factors in not just a player’s athleticism, but overall size and length as well. Our esteemed Rob Staton over at seahawksdraftblog.com has used SLA over the past couple of years in his workups to the draft.

Here are the top SLA scores for all offensive linemen (regardless of position) for this year’s draft class …

SLA (Size, Length, Athleticism – Offensive Linemen) …
1 -- Roderick Johnson … 84.8%
2 – Forrest Lamp … 84.4%
3 – Nico Siragusa … 83.5%
4 – Ben Braden … 82.6%
5 – Conor McDermott … 80.9%
6 – Dorian Johnson … 78.9%
7 – Jessamen Dunker … 78.4%
8 – Storm Norton … 76.1%
9 – Corey Levin … 75.2%
10 – Ethan Pocic … 73.5%
11 -- Garrett Bolles … 73.0%
12 –Taylor Moton … 72.2%
[Shout out to Endzorn for sharing this]

Now, I don’t know if the Seahawks use the SLA statistic specifically … but I’d wager they use something fairly close to it. And obviously the Seahawks (I think) consider more than just size, length, and athleticism when evaluating talent (experience, instincts, training in pro systems, production on the field, position versatility/flexibility, etc.) ALSO factor in heavily as well. Tom Cable has historically claimed that one of the biggest problems he experiences … is that offensive linemen coming out of college generally just aren’t trained for the pro game anymore and don’t come in with the requisite skills. Those that do come in come in with bad habits, so if you’re going to have to teach (or re-teach) everything anyway … you might as well find athletes and train them up. He’s not wrong and the Seahawks aren’t the only ones who are running into that problem. Linemen who BOTH have the measureables the Seahawks generally like … AND have the other aforementioned factors (experience, instincts, training in pro systems, production on the field, position versatility/flexibility etc.) are an extremely rare commodity indeed.

In the moments leading up to the #35 pick, I was calling for the Hawks to draft Forrest Lamp (#2 in SLA above) because of just that reason – his athleticism, his skillset, and his flat out dominant performances on the field against top level competition (i.e. Alabama). Athletic freak DT’s like Aaron Donald, Star Lotulelei, and Kawann Short have been able to blow up the Seahawks Offense by getting pressure right up the middle. So, why not counter that with an equally athletically gifted guard? That was my thinking.

The strange thing is that after much study, I think they may have gotten just that in Ethan Pocic. Pocic is a dominant run blocker with a nasty disposition who led all LSU linemen in knock down blocks (106) during his Senior Season last year. The previous year as a Junior, he was even better, as his 132.5 knockdowns not only lead the team … but were the most by any LSU linemen in a single season since 2010. He is smart, has very good hands, and just understands how the play the game. He’s been compared with Max Unger in terms of a player and the Seahawks really like the fact that he has experience at and can play all 5 positions on the football field. This is a solid pick-up and a guy who will be a solid fixture on that offensive line for this team somewhere. He definitely provides the team insurance if Britt chooses to leave after this season. The way I see it, I think that Tom Cable and the coaching staff gives Pocic the chance to nail down the starting RG spot this year.

Justin Senior, whom the Hawks drafted in the 6th Round (#210 overall), is a classic case of the kind of prospect that you take in the 6th and 7th Rounds. At 6’5” 331 lbs, he has good size, long arms (34”), and big hands (10”). He’s smart and comes from a zone blocking system, but he’s definitely a project, as at this point he has poor footwork and struggles with anchoring and walling off blockers.

Here is what Pro Football Focus had to say about Senior …
Bottom line: One of the more athletic tackles in the draft. Senior is going to need a complete re-tool of his pass-blocking technique. He also has a learning curve in understanding an NFL offense. Senior may not be a Day 1 starter but his physical ability will quickly make up for his learning curve and bad fundamentals. His versatility to play in any scheme and make any block will serve him well. His PFF grades were good, not great, at Mississippi State but in that offense and blocking schemes, he was their best player. Senior has a high ceiling and his physical tools and potential will probably lead to him being drafted ahead of most of the other offensive linemen entering the draft.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-justin-senior-t-mississippi-state/

Senior looks like he’s got potential as a possible Right Tackle, but he’s probably a couple of years away from being ready to competently compete on the football field.

As far as the rest of the Draft is concerned, I think a very natural question many fans are asking is, “If Offensive Line was THAT glaring of a weakness, why didn’t Seattle draft more linemen?” The answer to that is that we’ve been hearing that this draft class was considered to be one of the WORST draft classes in a long time for Offensive Linemen. I think that the fact that the very first linemen taken in the entire Draft was Garrett Bolles at #20 … and that only 2 linemen were selected in the entire 1st Round speaks to just that fact. Even in terms of quality depth, I think the Seahawks took a look at many these linemen in the draft … compared them to the guys already on their roster … and said to themselves that they had similar (or better players) in Mark Glowinski, Rees Odhiambo, Robert Myers, free agent signing Oday Aboushi, and Joey Hunt. And if you’re convinced that a Glowinski and/or an Odhiambo are as good or better prospects than the ones in the draft, then why go that route?

Wide Receivers …

If you’ve at all been following my posts, you’ll know that for YEARS now I’ve been campaigning for the Seahawks to bring in a quality WR who has both size and speed. One of the Seahawks Offense’s biggest weaknesses over the last several years is because of the lack of overall speed and size on the part of the wide receiving corps … opposing DB’s have been able to sit back and basically just keep everything in front of them. They haven’t had a whole lot of guys who truly scared them – put the fear in them that, “Oh no, we’ve got to watch it and not let this guy get past us!” That weakness right there has led Schneider and company to try to spend significant resources to try to address that in many ways. TE Luke Willson (6’5” 251lbs) is an athletic freak of nature with a ton of speed for a guy his size (he ran a 4.46 at his Pro Day at Rice) and who in theory could really stretch a defense. The problem with Willson has always been that while he can get open, he doesn’t always hang on to the ball on contested or difficult to make catches. The team traded Center Max Unger for All Pro TE Jimmy Graham (6’7” 265 lbs) with that same idea in mind – that he would be a guy who could put stress on opposing secondaries. He decent success in that venture overall, to the tune of 65 catches for 923 yards receiving (14.2 yards/reception) and 6 TD’s. Paul Richardson (6’0” 183 lbs) was supposed to be that speedster (ran a 4.37 at the combine), but he’s always struggled to stay on the football field due to health issues. He’s entering the final year of his contract, so we’ll see what happens with him in 2017 and beyond. As far as the rest of Seattle’s WR are concerned, Tyler Lockett has a lot of speed (4.40 in the 40) and quickness, but he’s a smaller receiver (5’10” 182 lbs). He has phenomenal athletic skill and talents to stretch a defense in his own right, but he’s more in that Julian Edelman jitter-bug receiver mold. Leading receiver Doug Baldwin runs about a 4.5 overall, but again he’s smaller (5’11 189 lbs) and relies upon a lot more guile and savvy than speed and out-muscling guys. Jermaine Kearse has good size (6’1” 209 lbs), but he plays at more like a 4.6 on the field. Though he’s had his share of big time receptions, Kearse has also had his share of drops over the years, has a tendency to get swallowed up by good coverage, AND is entering into the final year of his contract.

For many years now, I’d say that the Seahawks have been looking for a true X Receiver – someone with size who not only can both beat press coverage, but also run past opposing DB’s and make the big catch downfield. In the classic sense, an X Receiver is lined up out wide and needs to be a receiver who:

-Is good at beating press coverage (he’s probably going to need a measure of size and strength)
-Has quickness and elusiveness to get by and/or beat his man
-Has some speed and is a threat to go deep

The Seahawks have not truly had a receiver in that mold since Sidney Rice. Before we continue this conversation and how Amara Darboh fits into that category and where he fits in with the Seahawks, let’s return just for a second to our earlier SLA metric and see how Darboh matches up with the other receivers in this draft class …

SLA (Size, Length, Athleticism – Wide Receivers) …
1 – Robert Davis … 96.8%
2 – Bug Howard … 89.6%
3 – Amara Darboh … 85.2%
4 – Zay Jones … 84.9%
5 – J.D. Chesson … 79.5%
6 – Krishawn Hogan … 74.6%
7 – Michael Rector … 74.3%
8 – Chris Godwin … 73.8%
9 – Kenneth Golladay … 73.1%
10 – Deangelo Yancey … 70.9%
11 – JuJu Smith-Schuster … 69.6%
12 – Chad Hansen … 69.4%

As you can see, ranks #3 in terms of SLA in comparison to all the other receivers in this class. At 6’2” 214 lbs, he’s a fairly big guy who possesses excellent speed (4.45 in the 40) and elusiveness for a guy his size. Just for comparison’s sake …

Sidney Rice (6’4” 202 lbs) … ran a 4.51 in the 40 … 39.5” vertical … 119” broad jump
Amara Darboh (6’2” 214 lbs) … ran a 4.45 in the 40 … 36” vertical … 124” broad jump


While Rice had a bit better vertical, you can see that in every other facet, Darboh is both faster than he was and scored better in the broad jump. Pretty good for a guy who is 12 lbs heavier than Rice was.

Though he’s had some issues with focus drops and is a bit of a body catcher, Darboh also had a reputation throughout his time at Michigan for making big time receptions in clutch situations. You can see for yourself here one of Darboh’s biggest, in which he juked Marshon Lattimore (who most consider to be the #1 CB in this class and was just taken #11 overall by the Saints) and caught a game tying TD on 4th Down in Overtime as time was expiring. He’s a good blocker (something that’s a necessity in Pete Carroll’s system) and though many think he could struggle against press coverage in the NFL, I’ve seen him run with plenty enough toughness, so I personally believe that criticism’s a bit overblown. Although he lacks the sudden burst off the line (like Lockett has), I see Darboh eventually taking over Jermaine Kearse’s spot and role on this roster. He may not land a starting job this year and his impact might be only felt on special teams, I see Amara Darboh as a weapon that Russell Wilson is going to come to really like over time.

As far as the Division II receiver, David Moore is concerned that Seattle drafted in the 7th Round (#226 overall) out of East Central University in Oklahoma, I’m like most people in saying that I don’t know a ton about him other than what has already been reported. He has excellent overall size (6’0” 219 lbs) and ran a 4.43 (possibly 4.38) in the 40 according to John Schneider. They really love his combination of size, speed, and strength (26 reps of 225 lbs). Carroll was quoted in that article I just linked as saying, “We think that David is a stud of a receiver. He’s really fast and he’s really physical.” As is always the case, the 7th Round is where you draft guys like this. Consider him this year’s Jamison Konz. Only time will tell if he’s a washout like the Konz … or another 7th Round diamond in the rough like Ben Obomanu or Malcolm Smith.

Running Backs …

In the interest of mercy, I’ll do my best to shorten this section up. Coming into the 2017 Season, the Seahawks’ stable appears to be pretty full – to the point that it’s highly likely there won’t be a stall for Seattle’s latest young pony, Chris Carson (whom the Hawks drafted in the 7th Round #249 overall). With the running game struggling last year, the Seahawks went out and signed former Packer Eddie Lacey. He and Thomas Rawls will undoubtedly be locked in a battle for the starting job and the majority of the reps this season. C.J. Prosise (last year’s 3rd Round Pick) showed that he can be a dynamic change of pace back when given the chance, as he has both excellent receiving ability and bursts through the hole with great explosion and quickness. Then there’s guys in the mix like former Arkansas Razorback Alex Collins (last year’s 5th round choice), last year’s preseason fan favorite Troymaine Pope, to say nothing of George Farmer, and a host of other invitees like Terrance McGee.

So, what in the world see in Chris Carson? First of all, when they looked at him I think they saw a guy who runs with the kind of tenacity, power, and ferocious tackle breaking ability that they truly love. According to Pro Football Focus, Chris Carson had the best missed tackle rate in the 2017 RB class. He’s one who in the past his coaches challenged for being too soft. He obviously responded with a vengeance, as he now says that he enjoys running through contact. In a conference call, he told reporters, “I like to break tackles, get hard yards. I just like to make people miss and I’m not afraid of contact.” Obviously he does and he’s done it very well. Not only that, but he doesn’t put the ball on the turf either. In the 212 carries that he had during his time at Oklahoma State, he never fumbled once. With ball control something that Pete Carroll values highly, I can see that being something in him that they find very attractive. Looking at his highlight reel, Carson’s running style seems eerily reminiscent of a former Seahawks known for his toughness who just joined the Raiders. Whether or not he’s ultimately destined to become Beast Mode Jr or not, who can say at this point. I will say this though …

Alex Collins (5’10” 217 lbs) … 4.59 in the 40 … 18 Reps of 225lbs … 28.5” Vert … 113” Broad Jump
Chris Carson (6’0” 218 lbs) … 4.58 in the 40 … 23 Reps of 225lbs … 37” Vert … 130” Broad Jump


As you can see by the raw measureables alone, he’s a better overall athlete than Alex Collins. It’s better than that in fact, when you compare his overall athleticism to the rest of the RB’s in this draft class. Looking again at SLA, here is how Carson stacked up with the rest of this year’s draft class of RB’s and FB’s …

SLA (Size, Length, Athleticism – Running Backs and Fullbacks) …
1 – Algernon Brown … 89.7%*
2 – Alvin Kamara … 87.7%
3 – Chris Carson … 87.3%
4 – Joe Mixon … 82.4%
5 – Aaron Jones … 78.7%
6 – T.J. Logan … 64.3%
7 – D’onta Freeman … 59.0%

Chris Carson had the 3rd best SLA among RB’s and FB’s this year (and note who’s #1 on that list – Seahawks UDFA Algernon Brown). The main knocks on Carson is that he has a tendency to run too upright and that he lacks explosive playmaking potential in the minds of many experts, as he never had a run over 26 yards. Still, if he can show the same toughness he displayed in college … the ability to break tackles … and to be able to hold onto the ball … I think he could end up being a very tough player to cut. I think Alex Collins better come into camp in shape with the mindset that he’s out to prove what he can do. I know this – if I were him I’d certainly be looking over my shoulder.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,950
Reaction score
487
Great stuff. I agree Carson seems tailor-made to leapfrog people in the RB competition.

One thing I read concerning Justin Britt is that J.R. Sweezy, who liked to play wild, was a bad influence on Britt while he was playing at right tackle. Sometimes playing next to the right guy (or the wrong guy) can enormously impact your play.
 

sdog1981

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
240
Good stuff man.


I with what they have added in this draft along with the players that are coming back next season. I don't see how Jermaine Kearse is going to see the field much next season.
 

randomation

New member
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Messages
1,243
Reaction score
0
There any breakdown on Roos posted yet I remember liking him a lot when he was at Purdue and was surprised he went UDFA figured he would be at worst a 7th round flier.
 

Sterlinghawk

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
300
Reaction score
0
Location
Sterling, AK.
Thanks for the time and effort you put in these pieces Hawkscanner! Great writeup. Stuff like this is what I love about .net
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
MontanaHawk05":3qoai3cd said:
Great stuff. I agree Carson seems tailor-made to leapfrog people in the RB competition.

One thing I read concerning Justin Britt is that J.R. Sweezy, who liked to play wild, was a bad influence on Britt while he was playing at right tackle. Sometimes playing next to the right guy (or the wrong guy) can enormously impact your play.

After really studying Chris Carson in depth, if he runs like THAT in training camp, then I expect him to beat out Alex Collins. I just see him being a guy who's going to make himself very hard to cut.

Interesting little nugget on Sweezy's impact on Britt. I would agree that the right combination (or the wrong combination) is everything. That's related to one of the biggest concerns that I have regarding how they've handled the offensive line historically. What is it we've always heard preached to us when it comes to Offensive Line? We've always been told how important TIME together is for the offensive line -- these guys need to play together in order to learn each other's tendencies -- and that you aren't always making changes. If you want your OL to be good, you aren't switching out guards and tackles seemingly every other day. My hope for this training camp is that decide fairly quickly on who their starting 5 is going to be ... and then let them play together.
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
sdog1981":2m5ny5r7 said:
Good stuff man.


I with what they have added in this draft along with the players that are coming back next season. I don't see how Jermaine Kearse is going to see the field much next season.

I would agree that the drafting of Darboh would appear to signal that Kearse's days are numbered. That said, I don't know that I see Kearse necessarily being cut this year. I was listening to 710 ESPN and they had Sheil Kapadia on and brought that up with him. Sheil said that he didn't think the Hawks would cut Kearse this year, as they wouldn't experience any real cap relief. Now that said, we've seen them make moves before with seemingly no thought of money in mind. They got rid of Percy Harvin despite the fact that he had a big contract still on the books (though there were obviously reasons for that. Getting into a fight with a teammate the night before the Super Bowl will tend to spark moves like that). We'll see what happens with him in terms of this year ... but I don't see Kearse being here after this season.
 

HawkGA

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
107,412
Reaction score
1
Good stuff. I had a suspicion going into the draft that Oline would not be heavily addressed. I was right with the first pick, though I was surprised with the second pick. Hopefully Pocic turns out to be good but I must say I don't have much confidence. The Hawks' track record for drafting and developing Oline is not good and when I hear Schneider say he was like drafting 2.5 positions because of his versatility, I want to throw up. To me, it is exactly that kind of thinking why the Oline sucks.

That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
HawkGA":1r05ip8c said:
Good stuff. I had a suspicion going into the draft that Oline would not be heavily addressed. I was right with the first pick, though I was surprised with the second pick. Hopefully Pocic turns out to be good but I must say I don't have much confidence. The Hawks' track record for drafting and developing Oline is not good and when I hear Schneider say he was like drafting 2.5 positions because of his versatility, I want to throw up. To me, it is exactly that kind of thinking why the Oline sucks.

That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.

Coming into the draft, I didn't figure that OL would be heavily addressed either, simply for the fact that we kept hearing (over and over again) how this was the worst draft for offensive linemen in, like 10 years. Just taking a look at the number of linemen drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds, I think you can see a lot of teams thought that as well. I shared above what my thoughts were in the moments before the #35 pick was announced, as the guy I was personally targeting was Forrest Lamp. [See my rationale and in depth thoughts on Pocic above]

After looking at some of that in depth film breakdown of Fant, Joeckel, and Ifedi that I posted above (see imbedded links), I'm feeling reasonably confident that we will see a lot of improvement in terms of the play of the Offensive Line. I would say don't sleep on Pocic. I actually think that he has a great shot at nailing down the RG spot - AND doing a good job at it. He has experience playing all 5 positions along the line. The comparison to Max Unger with him is an interesting one for me personally. A lot of people I think have forgotten the fact that Unger was our starting center ... he started off his career with the Hawks as a guard (and did a fairly good job there). Pocic was the best linemen that LSU had last season, as he's led that team the last couple of years in knock down blocks. He brought a real a real nasty demeanor to that team and was a major reason IMO on how Leonard Fournette was able to become the 4th overall pick. He helped plowed the way for him. Just a thought.
 

aawolf

New member
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
638
Reaction score
0
Thanks, man. That was a great write-up. Looking forward to your defensive one.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,950
Reaction score
487
HawkGA":2nzdefcj said:
That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.

Pete has already announced Joeckel-Glow-Britt-Oday-Ifedi. Of course, that was before the draft.
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
aawolf":lufo3ln7 said:
Thanks, man. That was a great write-up. Looking forward to your defensive one.

Thanks. Love to hear any of your thoughts and reactions to any part of it.

The defensive breakdown was the first one I did. Already done. Love to hear your thoughts on that one as well. Let's get the conversation really going regarding these players and the look of the team moving forward ...

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136941
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
randomation":2pxtntam said:
There any breakdown on Roos posted yet I remember liking him a lot when he was at Purdue and was surprised he went UDFA figured he would be at worst a 7th round flier.

Good call on Roos. There isn't any detailed breakdown that I've seen on him (and I've looked) ... BUT, Carroll and Schneider did confirm his signing and said that they had a draftable grade on him. In fact, they considered taking him with one of their final picks. That's going to be the case with a lot of these UDFA's they bring in.
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/27440...e-wvu-qb-skyler-howard-purdue-ol-jordan-roos/
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
MontanaHawk05":2f8n89wx said:
HawkGA":2f8n89wx said:
That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.

Pete has already announced Joeckel-Glow-Britt-Oday-Ifedi. Of course, that was before the draft.

Exactly -- that was the announcement prior to the draft. AND ... I think when you see Pete make those kind of public statements, you've got to consider the political implications of what he's doing. You've got to consider the psychological reasons Pete makes those kinds of statements.

Joeckel was signed presumably with the understanding that he was going to be the starting LT. I'm guessing that's what he was told is that he was going to come in and compete for the position, so Pete is inspiring confidence in him by saying that.

Same thing with Glowinski. Glow WAS the starting LG last year, so heading into training camp, I think you want to give as many public attaboys as possible.

Oday Aboushi -- same idea as Joeckel. I believe a major reason he signed was because he was told he had a realistic shot at the RG position. No reason to dash those hopes prior to training camp.

Ifedi WAS a Right Tackle in college ... AND his game appears to be suited for being more of a Right Tackle. Now that Gary Gilliam (last year's RT) is gone, him sliding over there would seem pretty much a no brainer. Again, you want Ifedi to feel confident coming into this training camp after a year in which he really struggled.

Now is all of that going to happen? We'll see. Pete is all about Always COM-PETE after all. Personally, I think that Ethan Pocic has a very realistic shot at nailing down the RG spot. Again, we'll see how everything all shakes out in training camp.
 

HawkGA

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
107,412
Reaction score
1
MontanaHawk05":8nbn66b5 said:
HawkGA":8nbn66b5 said:
That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.

Pete has already announced Joeckel-Glow-Britt-Oday-Ifedi. Of course, that was before the draft.

Interesting, I must have missed that. I had seen some predictions and such but hadn't seen anything official. Still, July is a long time from now and September is even longer (there's some wisdom for you!).
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
10,027
Reaction score
1,721
Location
Sammamish, WA
Awesome work Hawkscanner. Thank you for sharing this wonderful insight into the draft picks and how they fit with the Seahawks. Well written.
 

HawkGA

New member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
107,412
Reaction score
1
MontanaHawk05":17yf5you said:
HawkGA":17yf5you said:
That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.

Pete has already announced Joeckel-Glow-Britt-Oday-Ifedi. Of course, that was before the draft.

Just for the record, Huard predicted: Fant - Joeckel - Britt - Pocic - Ifedi
 

SeaHawk80

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
290
Reaction score
0
Location
Pe Ell, WA
Thanks, Hawkscanner, for the great write up! Internet is too slow in Egypt and Turkey to get much video coverage, so my opinion is pretty useless. However, I really appreciate your effort and time to get my fix. :drool: Getting excited for the Season, should get home a couple weeks before Preseason game #1... Now that's good timing..
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
HawkGA":1tdvi2xt said:
MontanaHawk05":1tdvi2xt said:
HawkGA":1tdvi2xt said:
That said, I feel reasonably confident with Joeckel, Rees, and Fant battling it out for left side positions (may the best 2 win!) with Glow likely moving to the right side to take over RG and Ifedi at RT. Ifedi better work out at RT because that is the one position where there really doesn't seem to be much of a bench (Pocic, maybe?). I'm not sure quite where Pocic and the free-agent OG (name escapes me at the moment) will fit into things. Maybe they are able to bump somebody at a spot and if so, great, that just means a better player in a position.

Pete has already announced Joeckel-Glow-Britt-Oday-Ifedi. Of course, that was before the draft.

Just for the record, Huard predicted: Fant - Joeckel - Britt - Pocic - Ifedi

Now, THAT's something that I could buy -- and would agree with Brock in saying ...

Fant (LT)--Joeckel (LG)--Britt (C)--Pocic (RG)--Ifedi (RT) ...

... would make the most sense to me. Luke Joeckel spent virtually all of 2016 there at Jacksonville at LG. In the wake of the Seahawks' signing of Joeckel, many of the experts out there said he was NOT a LT -- he was a guard. Period. Coleman Crawford makes a fairly convincing case (going through the film) of how he thinks George Fant CAN BE the Left Tackle of the future.

[youtube]XRnidBZZqPs[/youtube]

Fant has the athleticism and all the tools. BUT ... he needs experience. He needs to learn the position and all its nuances. So, why not put him right next to a guy who's been a starter at the position for a number of years?

Ifedi ... again, him at RT makes a ton of sense. His tools and the way that he plays just seems to scream RT. He struggled last year at Guard and since he primarily played RT in college, why not go with that.

Pocic at RG ... again, just makes a lot of sense to me. He absolutely excelled as an interior lineman for LSU last season.
He was their best lineman and a big factor IMO behind Fournette's success. I think he's got the tools, the demeanor, etc. to do very well there. AND ... being right next to Britt, he's also learning the nuances of playing Center at the NFL Level. As a Center himself, he's going to be paying attention to all those little details. If Britt leaves after this year ... all he does is slide to his left at take over at Center.

So, I agree with Brock Huard that to me ... that group right there makes the most sense.
 
OP
OP
Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

New member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
2,145
Reaction score
0
Location
Middle of Nowhere, Washington
Hawkscanner":2a7g7ng3 said:
randomation":2a7g7ng3 said:
There any breakdown on Roos posted yet I remember liking him a lot when he was at Purdue and was surprised he went UDFA figured he would be at worst a 7th round flier.

Good call on Roos. There isn't any detailed breakdown that I've seen on him (and I've looked) ... BUT, Carroll and Schneider did confirm his signing and said that they had a draftable grade on him. In fact, they considered taking him with one of their final picks. That's going to be the case with a lot of these UDFA's they bring in.
http://sports.mynorthwest.com/27440...e-wvu-qb-skyler-howard-purdue-ol-jordan-roos/

OK, so I'm going to add on a bit about Jordan Roos here. I was just watching the Seahawks Day 3 Press Conference ... and during the conference Roos was a guy that the media specifically asked about. Schneider said that he's a Guard/Center (so again there's that versatility that they like) who did 42 reps at 225lbs. THAT people is not just strong -- that is country strong -- and right up there with the best performances ever. To give you some context, this year, the top bench press performance was Isaac Asiata who had 35 reps at the Combine. Last year, it was Christian Westerman who had 34 reps. The record for bench press at the Combine ... was set by Stephen Paea, who had 49 reps at 225 lbs in 2011. So, for Roos to have 42 reps (I'm assuming he did that in a private workout) ... is absolutely amazing strength right there. Schneider said that they were excited to get Roos and that he was a draftable player. Pete added that he was very excited about getting him and called his signing one of their real "bright spots" as far as an UDFA signing goes. They admitted that they were considering taking him with one of their final picks. Schneider said that they "agreed to terms with him in principle".

If you want to see them talking about Roos, their comments on him start at about exactly 10:00 into the Press Conference ...

[youtube]ILa8iomxepY[/youtube]

I'm personally very interested to see him and what he does in training camp.
 
Top