Question for the Geno apologists

[Spin Doctor]

Geno did not have a good game.

Geno also would win with a good team. A lot of posters seem to think that our problems start and end at QB. That's not how anything works. The gameplan didn't work today, DK had a brutal outing, our defense played well a few different drives and swiss cheese on every other.

This was a team loss, Geno included. This is not a good team, this is not a bad team, this is an 8-9 or 9-8 team.

Geno would win with a good team -- but the question remains, how much is Geno Smith going to cost and to what detriment will the cost of Geno's extension to build a competitive team? Geno is a good QB and honestly, he's played at the lower end of the top 10.

Unfortunately he's looking for an extension, he's made a few remarks about his pay last offseason. Right now, he's a bargain compared to his colleagues. He's got a heavily incentive laced contract due to him being a one hit wonder when we signed him.

Now he has a few years of decent play under his belt, he has a lot more negotiation power behind him. He can demand a contract and get it whether it is from us or someone else.

The question that is more pertinent here is "Can Geno justify a top tier salary" and I see him as becoming a liability when we have to pay a large percentage of our cap.

Geno is a good QB, upper 1/3rd of the league at least. We cannot kid ourself, he is not a fluke, he's not a one hit wonder. He shows a level of QB play that is clearly above that of most QB's in the NFL. He has transcended backup status and now he's clearly a top 10, albeit low top 10 QB in the NFL. I honestly hated the idea of Smith, but I have to call a spade a spade, the dude isn't a scrub. People that don't see this (im agreeing with you to some degree here) are delusional at this point, ESPECIALLY given current QB trends.

That being said, paying him top tier QB money sounds like a recipe for disaster. He's clearly not an elite QB. The next question is, what detriment would Geno being paid as such, hamper the team?

I complimented Geno, but we also have to acknowledge his weak spots here. In the endzone, he has faltered compared the top tier QB's. He had among the lowest completion percentage the last few years that he started, and the Seahawks have been among the weakest redzone offenses while Geno has been the QB.

In addition, he has a tendency to pull a disappearing act. He's had a bad midseason slump each of the years he's started. He's a safe bet with some clear weaknesses, but also extremely predictable. He will provide you good enough play, but also -- he's never going to be a star in the NFL, he's never going to be a big name or creator. He's boring, but he's not a liability.

There is a lot of value i that, but I question is he's worth paying what the top guys are worth? Not doing so is for sure a risky move for Schneider. That kind of move did pay off once with Wilson, it may be worth revisiting later.

 

[Tech Worlds]

What is toxic positivity?

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

What is toxic positivity?

It's probably being positive to an extent where you're completely overlooking problems and missing fixes, allowing them to get worse, etc. Something along those lines I'm guessing but I dunno. People seem to put the word toxic in front of everything these days.

 

[Tech Worlds]

It's probably being positive to an extent where you're completely overlooking problems and missing fixes, allowing them to get worse, etc. Something along those lines I'm guessing but I dunno. People seem to put the word toxic in front of everything these days.

So it's like Needing More Cow Bell then.

 

[bileever]

Why did he play his worst game with the best pass protection he's been given all year if the O-Line is the problem?

To get back to the OP's original question: I don't think the pass protection was that great. There were 23 pressures, 19 hurries, 3 QB hits and 1 sack. In no way is that good pass protection.

I think, as the announcer also suggested, that Geno was a bit rushed on his throws after the Giants game.

I also think that sometimes a player has a bad game. We were still just a ticky-tack illegal procedure call away from making a comeback.

 

[renofox]

This team has a ton of problems right now which is forcing Geno to do too much. That's when the mistakes happen and the streakiness occurs. The improv game is not Geno's forte. That was the previous QB's MO until even he couldn't do it. It's why I always said Geno was a system QB, but struggled when the system broke down. That's what I was meaning. The problem right now is that there's no way the system can work with the horrid Oline, inability to run the ball, and a defense that might not be better than last years abomination. It's not Geno's fault. Any QB would be hard pressed to find success with the accumilation of issues this team has. I actually feel bad for him and us fans alike, because we're never going to see what could have been. It's just going to take too long to fix the issues.

Agreed. I'm a tiny minority with an unpopular opinion, but I think the O-line is a lot better than what they're showing - Grubb and what's-his-name-Grubb's-OL-boy are not scheming and coaching the OL worth a , IMHO. The OL players aren't great, but they aren't this bad.

 

[NoGain]

Unfortunately he's looking for an extension, he's made a few remarks about his pay last offseason. Right now, he's a bargain compared to his colleagues. He's got a heavily incentive laced contract due to him being a one hit wonder when we signed him.

Now he has a few years of decent play under his belt, he has a lot more negotiation power behind him. He can demand a contract and get it whether it is from us or someone else.

The question that is more pertinent here is "Can Geno justify a top tier salary" and I see him as becoming a liability when we have to pay a large percentage of our cap.

I agree with a lot of your post. But what I take issue with is Geno's market value. What negotiation power does he have over the Hawks? The only true negotiation power he has is if some team is willing to pay him a boatload of money. I don't see any team that would do that. What team? Teams had the chance to offer him money before, and they didn't. He'll be 35 next year.

If I were the Hawks, I'd give him a lower, reasonable number on a short extension on our terms, and if he doesn't like it, say go find a better one.

My biggest fear is that the Hawks bid against ourselves on an extension.

 

[olyfan63]

In all fairness...the play called on 4th down wasn't exactly great though...at least from my eyes.

It would have gotten the first down if Geno put the ball on target. He missed by maybe a foot.
The point is it was lack of situational awareness for Geno to slide down a yard short on 3rd down. Again, easy for me to say, but the hit would have been less than most sacks he has taken. Water under the bridge now.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I agree with a lot of your post. But what I take issue with is Geno's market value. What negotiation power does he have over the Hawks? The only true negotiation power he has is if some team is willing to pay him a boatload of money. I don't see any team that would do that. What team? Teams had the chance to offer him money before, and they didn't. He'll be 35 next year.

If I were the Hawks, I'd give him a lower, reasonable number on a short extension on our terms, and if he doesn't like it, say go find a better one.

My biggest fear is that the Hawks bid against ourselves on an extension.

His first extension came with only one season under his belt as starter. Since then he’s done a decent job at the QB position. He’s still on a bargain of a contract relative to his peers. He has a lot more leverage this time around.

He’s going to get a lot of money. He’s definitely not worth what the top guys are making.

 

[NoGain]

His first extension came with only one season under his belt as starter. Since then he’s done a decent job at the QB position. He’s still on a bargain of a contract relative to his peers. He has a lot more leverage this time around.

He’s going to get a lot of money. He’s definitely not worth what the top guys are making.

From who? Who's going to offer him a ton of money? Give me teams.

 

[Spin Doctor]

From who? Who's going to offer him a ton of money? Give me teams.

Any team without a QB, there are quite a few teams that have a QB worse than Geno. A GM that is desperate to save his job too could pull the trigger on Geno.

His agent is likely going to be asking the market rate. If you’re a halfway decent QB, you’re getting the market rate.

Just look at what a 36 year old Cousins is getting paid coming off of a brutal injury that could’ve affected his play drastically.

 

[NoGain]

Any team without a QB, there are quite a few teams that have a QB worse than Geno. A GM that is desperate to save his job too could pull the trigger on Geno.

His agent is likely going to be asking the market rate. If you’re a halfway decent QB, you’re getting the market rate.

I need to hear teams. I go through the list and...no team jumps out at me.

Bills...no
Jets...no
Pats...no
Dolphins...no (CAP)
Steelers...no
Bengals...no
Ravens...no
Browns...no (CAP)
Texans...no
Indy...no
Jax...no
Titans...okay...maybe
Chiefs...no
Chargers...no
Broncos...no
Raiders...only as a bridge QB
Cowboys...no
Commanders...no
Giants...really?...really?
Philly...no
Packers...no
Bears...no
Vikings...no
Lions...no
TB...no
Falcons...no
Saints...no
Panthers...really?...really?
49ers...no
Cards...no
Rams...no

What am I missing here?

 

[JayhawkMike]

I need to hear teams. I go through the list and...no team jumps out at me.

Bills...no
Jets...no
Pats...no
Dolphins...no (CAP)
Steelers...no
Bengals...no
Ravens...no
Browns...no (CAP)
Texans...no
Indy...no
Jax...no
Titans...okay...maybe
Chiefs...no
Chargers...no
Broncos...no
Raiders...only as a bridge QB
Cowboys...no
Commanders...no
Giants...really?...really?
Philly...no
Packers...no
Bears...no
Vikings...no
Lions...no
TB...no
Falcons...no
Saints...no
Panthers...really?...really?
49ers...no
Cards...no
Rams...no

What am I missing here?

What are you thinking NoGain? He‘s a fringe Top 10 QB in the NFL so 20 of those teams would see him as an upgrade.

LOL

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Jets might be the most realistic option to trade Geno if Rodgers retires end of this year. That's crazy looking at the QB situations now. Between Baker, Fields, Darnold, and the rookies, those spots settled quick.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This team has a ton of problems right now which is forcing Geno to do too much. That's when the mistakes happen and the streakiness occurs. The improv game is not Geno's forte. That was the previous QB's MO until even he couldn't do it. It's why I always said Geno was a system QB, but struggled when the system broke down. That's what I was meaning. The problem right now is that there's no way the system can work with the horrid Oline, inability to run the ball, and a defense that might not be better than last years abomination. It's not Geno's fault. Any QB would be hard pressed to find success with the accumilation of issues this team has. I actually feel bad for him and us fans alike, because we're never going to see what could have been. It's just going to take too long to fix the issues.

I'm... actually in complete agreement right now

 

[Maelstrom787]

I need to hear teams. I go through the list and...no team jumps out at me.

Bills...no
Jets...no
Pats...no
Dolphins...no (CAP)
Steelers...no
Bengals...no
Ravens...no
Browns...no (CAP)
Texans...no
Indy...no
Jax...no
Titans...okay...maybe
Chiefs...no
Chargers...no
Broncos...no
Raiders...only as a bridge QB
Cowboys...no
Commanders...no
Giants...really?...really?
Philly...no
Packers...no
Bears...no
Vikings...no
Lions...no
TB...no
Falcons...no
Saints...no
Panthers...really?...really?
49ers...no
Cards...no
Rams...no

What am I missing here?

Panthers yes
Giants yes
Raiders yes
Titans yes
Browns would, but not sure if they have room
Steelers yes (unless Fields is superman rest of the year)

I think that's actually quite a decent potential market for a free agent QB

 

[Ozzy]

The market wasn’t crazy for him before and it wouldn’t be this time around either as he’s even older and less productiv(so far) but the teams Mael listed I think would have to be at least a little interested. Most of those aren’t win now teams so he would be a plan B to the draft.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Geno's market will be for a 2 year deal max for any team. Those teams will likely be looking to draft a QB so they won't be looking to give a big contract. And it's probably no more than 4 teams Seattle being one of them.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'm... actually in complete agreement right now

In my best Darth Vader voice - "Come to the dark side my friend".

 

[Ozzy]

I'm... actually in complete agreement right now