All 22 vs DET (1st half offense)

[aawolf]

Thank you for posting this, Laloosh. Great read and thanks to all the commentators on this thread.

 

[Ozzy]

Great stuff and I always look forward to this. To me some of this stuff seems fixable as communication is just completely off.

 

[Laloosh]

This is absolutely fantastic stuff Laloosh, but I have to say this: You do not give enough time in the gifs to conceivably read what you've wrote there or event remotely close to enough time to read even a snippet. If you're going to write so much you have GOT to pause it long enough to read what the heck you're saying.

Appreciate the feedback. It's a limitation of the software I'm using that restricts the pauses to 2.5 seconds.

 

[StoneCold]

Love these gifs. Thanks for taking the time. I'd gladly pay you in burgers. Just post an address and I'll get them shipped out.

There appears to be a great deal of miscommunication or just not understanding who you're supposed to be blocking. In each play, pre snap, does each O linemen have a specific guy their supposed to take on? I realize that as the D shifts around this can change, but it seems that often at least one or two guys appear confused about their assignment in addition to just plain poor execution when they do engage.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Love these gifs. Thanks for taking the time. I'd gladly pay you in burgers. Just post an address and I'll get them shipped out.

There appears to be a great deal of miscommunication or just not understanding who you're supposed to be blocking. In each play, pre snap, does each O linemen have a specific guy their supposed to take on? I realize that as the D shifts around this can change, but it seems that often at least one or two guys appear confused about their assignment in addition to just plain poor execution when they do engage.

1) Am I playside or backside?
2) Am I covered or uncovered?
3) Is my teammate to my inside covered or uncovered?

These are the rules in general for the inside zone scheme. This is the NFL and there may be some tweaks and complications to these general principles, but the answer to these questions will determine initially what you are supposed to do. The problems crop up when you are playing NFL defenses who recognize your inexperience and spend upwards of a full work week or more designing scenarios to confuse your calls, forcing last second adjustments that we are failing to make.

....Then other times we just blow it.

..And by the way, never heard of inside zone pass blocking, so find someone else to explain that dumpster fire. :34853_doh:

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Q1 8:32 - 3rd and 05, Free safety shows blitz. The play call is actually really good here against the blitz but... The FS drops into coverage, taking Graham out of the equation and Okung is bull rushed into Wilson. As designed, it looks like all of the routes for the receivers are just meant to clear space for Graham but with Okung's blunder this play is DOA unless Wilson can make something happen in the scramble. He runs for the 1st down.

Yeah, I see that dig you took at me there. In the case of a blitz-beater, you'd probably want the ball to come out in even less than 2.5 seconds. HA!

Unfortunately, Detroit plays the ultra-obvious route scheme well. And while Okung had a bad play (and game), the route concept didn't help anyone there anyway. Eggs in one basket (Graham).

Also, the OL's apparent failure to shift against corner blitzes is partially on Wilson and Nowak. Pete has repeatedly said that part of Wilson's program this year is taking on more responsibilities in shifting protections.

 

[Laloosh]

Yeah, I see that dig you took at me there. In the case of a blitz-beater, you'd probably want the ball to come out in even less than 2.5 seconds. HA!

Unfortunately, Detroit plays the ultra-obvious route scheme well. And while Okung had a bad play (and game), the route concept didn't help anyone there anyway. Eggs in one basket (Graham).

Lol, wasn't a dig but I did make a point to call it out because this really is a common theme. I have shown examples of less than stellar decision making in the pocket but the guy faces a LOT of these decisions every single game due to the offense (not sure how much of it is OL and how much is the QB) not picking up the right guy in pass protection (or completely missing on a block).

[edit] And I neglected to mention this in my OP but obviously I'm pretty ignorant compared to how actual football people see these plays. I'm just trying to provide something for discussion. I was hesitant to put my comments in the gifs in prior weeks for that reason but some have mentioned that they like the comments so I ran with it.

I actually enjoy reading corrections from you guys because I'm learning more about how these plays are designed as well as where the actual issues are in the execution.

 

[justafan]

Laloosh you comment about the 3rd TFL on that drive is spot on and points out a real problem this team faces.
One of the commandments of Gibbs and the ZBS was 0 negative plays.We used to hear Wilson preach stay on schedule,meaning get to the 2nd and 5s 3rd and 4s.

This offense wants to be ball control but we are getting put in bad positions through either breakdowns or penalties.Most teams especially this one just are not good enough to sustain drives with mistakes like these.

This team will continue to struggle if they put themselves in the hole by creating 3rd and long.
Thanks again

 

[jdemps]

Jimmy wrecked the dude here though lol

https://streamable.com/r5xg?t=2.3

This play is the kind of blocking I want JG do.

Apparently blocking a LBer is too much to ask.

SMH.

At least somebody yelled at them enough after this game to make Bailey cry on Twitter.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Yeah, I see that dig you took at me there. In the case of a blitz-beater, you'd probably want the ball to come out in even less than 2.5 seconds. HA!

Unfortunately, Detroit plays the ultra-obvious route scheme well. And while Okung had a bad play (and game), the route concept didn't help anyone there anyway. Eggs in one basket (Graham).

Lol, wasn't a dig but I did make a point to call it out because this really is a common theme. I have shown examples of less than stellar decision making in the pocket but the guy faces a LOT of these decisions every single game due to the offense (not sure how much of it is OL and how much is the QB) not picking up the right guy in pass protection (or completely missing on a block).

[edit] And I neglected to mention this in my OP but obviously I'm pretty ignorant compared to how actual football people see these plays. I'm just trying to provide something for discussion. I was hesitant to put my comments in the gifs in prior weeks for that reason but some have mentioned that they like the comments so I ran with it.

I actually enjoy reading corrections from you guys because I'm learning more about how these plays are designed as well as where the actual issues are in the execution.

I appreciate your efforts, I really do. I'm not claiming to be an expert, either.

I think it's a lot of things. Part of it is the OL. But with three new guys on the line, what did everyone expect? And DC's attack inexperience, adding to the problem. Every team in the league smelled blood in the water when they saw our preseason lineup. Stunt and blitz, stunt and blitz, every down if you can. It's bound to exacerbate an already struggling line.

Then you've got Wilson and Nowak's protection calls, Bevell's simplistic scheme, our WR's demanding zero respect in single coverage, and there's all kinds of problems with this offense. It's just a mess, from top to bottom. It's drafting, it's philosophy, and it's youth. There is no one solution, much less the common fan's idea of "hey, just draft seven offensive linemen next year!" Whatever. That's not how things work in the NFL.

 

[Sgt Largent]

Q1 8:32 - 3rd and 05, Free safety shows blitz. The play call is actually really good here against the blitz but... The FS drops into coverage, taking Graham out of the equation and Okung is bull rushed into Wilson. As designed, it looks like all of the routes for the receivers are just meant to clear space for Graham but with Okung's blunder this play is DOA unless Wilson can make something happen in the scramble. He runs for the 1st down.

Yeah, I see that dig you took at me there. In the case of a blitz-beater, you'd probably want the ball to come out in even less than 2.5 seconds. HA!

Unfortunately, Detroit plays the ultra-obvious route scheme well. And while Okung had a bad play (and game), the route concept didn't help anyone there anyway. Eggs in one basket (Graham).

Also, the OL's apparent failure to shift against corner blitzes is partially on Wilson and Nowak. Pete has repeatedly said that part of Wilson's program this year is taking on more responsibilities in shifting protections.

Here's what I don't like. ISO Jimmy vertically on the right side, not horizontally, he's got to run by a whole mess of defenders that shallow. A flag route eliminates the free safety bluff whether he comes or drops out into brackets coverage with the nickel. Also, we basically conceded 3 options backside in order to attempt to isolate Jimmy. Plenty of opportunity to run some sort of rub combo with the 3 left side options.

Why in the heck are Baldwin and Lockett a mere 4 yds apart all the way through the top of their respective routes? They could have held hands for most of the route. Bring Baldwin underneath Lockett at some point in the vertical to create some traffic and create separation.

 

[MysterMatt]

I have no idea what is going on in the film room and what not, but it does seem we are broken in numerous areas. We suffer from a lack of awareness, poor protection calls, poor communication, physical talent, and accountability. There is likely blame to be spread across Russell, each OL player, Cable, Bevell, and most of all...Pete.

I think that somehow they need to abandon this experiment, put the best players we have RIGHT NOW on the field, and simplify. Until we can show we do the basics right first, we will rely on players to make some plays and hope our ST and D can carry the load while the offense reboots.

 

[TwistedHusky]

For years we have gotten to see some tremendous football.

It made the girls diehard football fans. And has radically influenced my choices in paint colors the past few years.

So, we really have been feasting on great football, but this year I am at a loss.

I understand you cannot pay everyone and we never had an all-everything OL anyway, but they were reasonably competent. I have no idea how we let this slide into the disaster we are facing now. Nor do I understand how anyone can expect a back (RB or QB) to produce behind the kind of relentless pressure this kind of line allows. Hell, how can an OC even draw up a play if you are not even sure your line can block it anyway? (Not that I excuse Bevell, he is clearly an idiot, just an idiot with a terrible line now).

The bigger worry is just how many bad habits will our QB pick up to compensate for this line play and how many areas of skill development are going to slow because he never gets enough time in the pocket to learn to do things like complete QBs are expected to do. He is going to have to be a QB that is always a runner, and that has other implications, like longevity threats.

Are we really this bad or did the team just lay an egg 4 weeks in a row? Is this the SB loser's curse hitting full force?

 

[bbsplitter]

Re-sign LJP. Move Britt back to RT. Make Gilliam the blocking TE and just motion him to whatever side shows pressure.

 

[StoneCold]

For years we have gotten to see some tremendous football.

It made the girls diehard football fans. And has radically influenced my choices in paint colors the past few years.

So, we really have been feasting on great football, but this year I am at a loss.

I understand you cannot pay everyone and we never had an all-everything OL anyway, but they were reasonably competent. I have no idea how we let this slide into the disaster we are facing now. Nor do I understand how anyone can expect a back (RB or QB) to produce behind the kind of relentless pressure this kind of line allows. Hell, how can an OC even draw up a play if you are not even sure your line can block it anyway? (Not that I excuse Bevell, he is clearly an idiot, just an idiot with a terrible line now).

The bigger worry is just how many bad habits will our QB pick up to compensate for this line play and how many areas of skill development are going to slow because he never gets enough time in the pocket to learn to do things like complete QBs are expected to do. He is going to have to be a QB that is always a runner, and that has other implications, like longevity threats.

Are we really this bad or did the team just lay an egg 4 weeks in a row? Is this the SB loser's curse hitting full force?

We use our weakness as a strength. We should run a play similar to a screen, where it looks like protection has broken down. Russ goes into Scramble mode with a back in the flat where it appears RW needs to dump it off to him. The back turns to RW briefly to get the defender to bite and then turns up the sideline. RW lofts the pass over the defender and into the arms of the back. Touchdown SEAHAWKS! If you watch the play linked above where Jimmy does a good job blocking you will see this almost play out with Fred Jackson, except RW rolls to the left instead of right.

I know we've done a similar play with the read option.

 

[mrt144]

For years we have gotten to see some tremendous football.

It made the girls diehard football fans. And has radically influenced my choices in paint colors the past few years.

So, we really have been feasting on great football, but this year I am at a loss.

I understand you cannot pay everyone and we never had an all-everything OL anyway, but they were reasonably competent. I have no idea how we let this slide into the disaster we are facing now. Nor do I understand how anyone can expect a back (RB or QB) to produce behind the kind of relentless pressure this kind of line allows. Hell, how can an OC even draw up a play if you are not even sure your line can block it anyway? (Not that I excuse Bevell, he is clearly an idiot, just an idiot with a terrible line now).

The bigger worry is just how many bad habits will our QB pick up to compensate for this line play and how many areas of skill development are going to slow because he never gets enough time in the pocket to learn to do things like complete QBs are expected to do. He is going to have to be a QB that is always a runner, and that has other implications, like longevity threats.

Are we really this bad or did the team just lay an egg 4 weeks in a row? Is this the SB loser's curse hitting full force?

We use our weakness as a strength. We should run a play similar to a screen, where it looks like protection has broken down. Russ goes into Scramble mode with a back in the flat where it appears RW needs to dump it off to him. The back turns to RW briefly to get the defender to bite and then turns up the sideline. RW lofts the pass over the defender and into the arms of the back. Touchdown SEAHAWKS! If you watch the play linked above where Jimmy does a good job blocking you will see this almost play out with Fred Jackson, except RW rolls to the left instead of right.

I know we've done a similar play with the read option.

Kinda like the pop pass that Auburn ran first and then we smoked the Packers on last year, right?

 

[StoneCold]

We use our weakness as a strength. We should run a play similar to a screen, where it looks like protection has broken down. Russ goes into Scramble mode with a back in the flat where it appears RW needs to dump it off to him. The back turns to RW briefly to get the defender to bite and then turns up the sideline. RW lofts the pass over the defender and into the arms of the back. Touchdown SEAHAWKS! If you watch the play linked above where Jimmy does a good job blocking you will see this almost play out with Fred Jackson, except RW rolls to the left instead of right.

I know we've done a similar play with the read option.

Kinda like the pop pass that Auburn ran first and then we smoked the Packers on last year, right?

Yep. And we would have had another, but Russ couldn't get a handle on the ball and ended up throwing low to Cooper Helfet, I believe. Can't remember the opponent.

 

[HommyHawk]

Thanks bro

 

[justafan]

I have no idea what is going on in the film room and what not, but it does seem we are broken in numerous areas. We suffer from a lack of awareness, poor protection calls, poor communication, physical talent, and accountability. There is likely blame to be spread across Russell, each OL player, Cable, Bevell, and most of all...Pete.

I think that somehow they need to abandon this experiment, put the best players we have RIGHT NOW on the field, and simplify. Until we can show we do the basics right first, we will rely on players to make some plays and hope our ST and D can carry the load while the offense reboots.

This.I love the idea of a simplified plan to get these guys doing it the way it should be done and eliminating the missed assignments.
The ZBS only needs a dozen or so runs with the play actions coming off those being the bulk of the playbook.They only have so much time to practice and put things together and the breakdowns are coming way too often.

I dont remember seeing so many plays beaten with backside pursuit.If you remember the Broncos or just about any ZBS the backside ends up with people on the ground opening up cut lanes for the RB.Even running wide these guys are getting caught from behind.

 

[brimsalabim]

Thanks Nuke!