Wilson wanted PC and JS fired?

[JPatera76]

Without the Spam
@Raifers Linked https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35725577/russell-wilson-pushed-pete-carroll-firing-per-report
Im aware there as an Athletic article about it as well.

I sincerely apologize as per a few requests; people wanted the thread without the spam account who oddly... created it and then spammed lol. I tried to do this via mobile (bad idea) And when I had selected everyone's posts minus the spam account to copy but the webpage had refreshed and removed the thread in the process. I really am sorry. As i tried to "undelete" the option was unavailable, and I was looking what was a cached copy of the thread.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

What? I don’t get it, what was wrong with us discussing a news article on RW to the point the thread had to go away?

 

[Hawkstorian]

We already knew Russ didn't want to play for Pete anymore, so it stands to reason that if the Seahawks were to bring in Sean Payton a year ago, he would have wanted to stay. Nothing new here as far as I'm concerned.

 

[BASF]

Without the Spam

 

[NoGain]

Come on. Toss a thread on a topic that people were interested and engaged in? Way, way heavy-handed. Are you trying to kill this place?

 

[JPatera76]

Come on. Toss a thread on a topic that people were interested and engaged in? Way, way heavy-handed. Are you trying to kill this place?

Maybe read the post it wasn't intentional. (And I'm now on PC to moderate so as nothing refreshes and disappears dang it)

(PS i hate technology sometimes)

 

[NoGain]

Maybe read the post it wasn't intentional. (And I'm now on PC to moderate so as nothing refreshes and disappears dang it)

(PS i hate technology sometimes)

Gotcha. Didn't read the new disclaimer. Was just interested in what posters/fans had to say on the topic. That's all.

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah it happens, not your fault JP!

 

[JPatera76]

What? I don’t get it, what was wrong with us discussing a news article on RW to the point the thread had to go away?

There was nothing wrong with it. Please re-read my OP. You responded while I was in the Middle editing it.

 

[RiverDog]

Seattle Times columnist Matt Calkins had a good commentary on The Atlantic article:

Trying to get Pete Carroll to bad-mouth a former player of his is like trying to get an Auburn fan to yell “Roll Tide!” The Seahawks coach doesn’t do it — even when it would be justified.

Richard Sherman blamed Carroll for costing them the Super Bowl after a sideline explosion in 2016, but Pete never once chided him in public. Earl Thomas flipped him the bird in his final game as a Seahawk, yet Carroll did nothing but laud the safety in ensuing news conferences.

Examples such as these abound, which is why one particular response stood out before the Seahawks’ season opener vs. Denver last September.

Any thoughts on fans potentially booing Russell Wilson?

“You are either competing, or you are not. … It’s game time, and we are going for it, so however [fans] take it, I will follow their lead on that,” Carroll said. “I’ll leave it up to the 12s. I think they will know exactly what to do.”

That wasn’t love for a quarterback that shined in Seattle for 10 years and led the Seahawks to their only Super Bowl title. That was a signal to the fans to let the boo birds rain.

Could Pete’s answer simply have been a reflection of his competitive nature? Sure. Or maybe he was still fuming that Wilson … tried to get him fired.

That’s what a Friday report from the Athletic alleged anyway. It said that Wilson asked ownership to can Carroll and Seahawks general manager John Schneider because he “was convinced that Carroll and Schneider were inhibiting his quest to win additional Super Bowls and individual awards.”

The sources were anonymous, and Wilson denied doing so, but I doubt many people will believe him. Fair or not, Russell’s reputation in Seattle will likely never recover from this. Most folks will always see him as a fraud.

One of the reasons fans are so warm to a player such as Marshawn Lynch is because they feel they are seeing authenticity epitomized. It’s not as if Beast Mode didn’t create unnecessary tension during his time in Seattle, as he’d regularly question authority and occasionally skip team bus rides. But people knew who he was.

Same is true of Sherman, who has irked thousands of 12s over the years, yet still received a booming ovation at a Seattle charity basketball event last year. He’s real. People know that. Wilson comes off as the furthest thing from that.

Russell would give all the prepackaged answers about how dedicated he was to the Seahawks, then drum up a list of four teams he’d be willing to be traded to. He’d try to come off like just one of the guys, but then have his own staff and office in the Broncos’ building. And if this report is true — to go after a coach and GM’s livelihood? Such a departure from the image Wilson cultivated.

Russell Wilson’s legacy in Seattle might be irreparable after latest report on Seahawks exit

Russell Wilson denied trying to get Pete Carroll and John Schneider fired, but few will believe him. Fair or not, his reputation here will likely never recover.

www.seattletimes.com

 

[RiverDog]

After reading Calkins' take, I'm inclined to believe the Atlantic article. I certainly don't believe Russell's denials as he proved that he'll say whatever he thinks people want to hear regardless of whether it's true or not back when he told our fan base that he wanted to play for us for another 10 years when all the time he was looking to get out of Dodge.

I've seen some major falls from grace in our sporting region, including Alex Rodriguez, Steve Hutchinson, Randy Johnson, Howard Schultz and the Sonics, and a few others. But Russell's exit has to be the most dramatic and one that I don't think he'll ever be able to recover from. I don't think he'll ever be able to show his face without receiving an avalanche of boos.

It's a shame, because I still feel that Russell's basically a good person and an outstanding citizen who desperately wants to do the right thing. There are worse people in this world than Russell Wilson.

 

[NoGain]

Seattle Times columnist Matt Calkins had a good commentary on The Atlantic article:

Trying to get Pete Carroll to bad-mouth a former player of his is like trying to get an Auburn fan to yell “Roll Tide!” The Seahawks coach doesn’t do it — even when it would be justified.

Richard Sherman blamed Carroll for costing them the Super Bowl after a sideline explosion in 2016, but Pete never once chided him in public. Earl Thomas flipped him the bird in his final game as a Seahawk, yet Carroll did nothing but laud the safety in ensuing news conferences.

Examples such as these abound, which is why one particular response stood out before the Seahawks’ season opener vs. Denver last September.

Any thoughts on fans potentially booing Russell Wilson?

“You are either competing, or you are not. … It’s game time, and we are going for it, so however [fans] take it, I will follow their lead on that,” Carroll said. “I’ll leave it up to the 12s. I think they will know exactly what to do.”

That wasn’t love for a quarterback that shined in Seattle for 10 years and led the Seahawks to their only Super Bowl title. That was a signal to the fans to let the boo birds rain.

Could Pete’s answer simply have been a reflection of his competitive nature? Sure. Or maybe he was still fuming that Wilson … tried to get him fired.

That’s what a Friday report from the Athletic alleged anyway. It said that Wilson asked ownership to can Carroll and Seahawks general manager John Schneider because he “was convinced that Carroll and Schneider were inhibiting his quest to win additional Super Bowls and individual awards.”

The sources were anonymous, and Wilson denied doing so, but I doubt many people will believe him. Fair or not, Russell’s reputation in Seattle will likely never recover from this. Most folks will always see him as a fraud.

One of the reasons fans are so warm to a player such as Marshawn Lynch is because they feel they are seeing authenticity epitomized. It’s not as if Beast Mode didn’t create unnecessary tension during his time in Seattle, as he’d regularly question authority and occasionally skip team bus rides. But people knew who he was.

Same is true of Sherman, who has irked thousands of 12s over the years, yet still received a booming ovation at a Seattle charity basketball event last year. He’s real. People know that. Wilson comes off as the furthest thing from that.

Russell would give all the prepackaged answers about how dedicated he was to the Seahawks, then drum up a list of four teams he’d be willing to be traded to. He’d try to come off like just one of the guys, but then have his own staff and office in the Broncos’ building. And if this report is true — to go after a coach and GM’s livelihood? Such a departure from the image Wilson cultivated.

Russell Wilson’s legacy in Seattle might be irreparable after latest report on Seahawks exit

Russell Wilson denied trying to get Pete Carroll and John Schneider fired, but few will believe him. Fair or not, his reputation here will likely never recover.

www.seattletimes.com

This is the paragraph that kind of stood out to me...

"The sources were anonymous, and Wilson denied doing so, but I doubt many people will believe him. Fair or not, Russell’s reputation in Seattle will likely never recover from this. Most folks will always see him as a fraud."

"I doubt many people will believe him..." is how I see it. There's just an accumulative negative critical mass that's settled into too many minds about him to believe him anymore. Like Calkins said, fair or not, he did play a major role in his rep's decline. I hope he can at least see that, admit that much to himself.

 

[RiverDog]

This is the paragraph that kind of stood out to me...

"The sources were anonymous, and Wilson denied doing so, but I doubt many people will believe him. Fair or not, Russell’s reputation in Seattle will likely never recover from this. Most folks will always see him as a fraud."

"I doubt many people will believe him..." is how I see it. There's just an accumulative negative critical mass that's settled into too many minds about him to believe him anymore. Like Calkins said, fair or not, he did play a major role in his rep's decline. I hope he can at least see that, admit that much to himself.

Yep. Same here, although I will disagree with the 'fair or not' part. It's completely fair as Russell has brought this all on himself with no one else to blame. Just a couple of years ago, the Seattle fan base drooled over him like one would their first born and would have crawled on their hands and knees through the hubs of hell for him. There's no way someone can fall that far that fast by being the victim of the sporting world's equivalent of the Paparazzi.

 

[NoGain]

Riverdog did have an interesting thought about whose rep among the greater Seattle sports community has suffered the most through the years? Off the top of my head, Howard Schultz still reigns supreme for me. He lost us a beloved sports franchise. Horrible custodian of the public trust and a local treasure.

To think that just a short spell later Steve Ballmer paid a record amount for the LA Clippers, and that the Kraken pretty much got a brand new arena built for them. In other words, it wasn't like this had to be by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[RiverDog]

Riverdog did have an interesting thought about whose rep among the greater Seattle sports community has suffered the most through the years? Off the top of my head, Howard Schultz still reigns supreme for me. He lost us a beloved sports franchise. Horrible custodian of the public trust and a local treasure.

To think that just a short spell later Steve Ballmer paid a record amount for the LA Clippers, and that the Kraken pretty much got a brand new arena built for them. In other words, it wasn't like this had to be by any stretch of the imagination.

Schultz' diminished reputation had a more practical effect than Russell's, that's for sure. As you said, he lost a beloved sports franchise, something that has yet to be replaced in going on 20 years while Russell's departure left us with 3 players, a boat load of draft picks, and arguably a better future than had he stayed with us.

But Schultz was never loved as much as Russell once was. Howard was simply another businessman, loved no more than the chief of police or the city manager. And there were other bad guys to share the angst with, like David Stern and Clay Bennett. Russell's fall from grace was much more dramatic and covered a wider range of emotions. Lovers turned into haters.

 

[NoGain]

Schultz' diminished reputation had a more practical effect than Russell's, that's for sure. As you said, he lost a beloved sports franchise, something that has yet to be replaced in going on 20 years while Russell's departure left us with 3 players, a boat load of draft picks, and arguably a better future than had he stayed with us.

But Schultz was never loved as much as Russell once was. Howard was simply another businessman, loved no more than the chief of police or the city manager. And there were other bad guys to share the angst with, like David Stern and Clay Bennett. Russell's fall from grace was much more dramatic and covered a wider range of emotions. Lovers turned into haters.

I get where you're coming from. I do think, however, that Schultz's rep out here as a business icon was a bit higher than you stated, and that it was viewed as a big positive when he bought the Sonics.

I guess my feelings toward Schultz are just more *negative* than they are with RW. When I think of the worst feelings a member of the greater Seattle sports community gives me, Schultz towers over RW to me. I guess that's a little different than in how far such a person's rep fell. I guess it's more in how you frame the question.

 

[chrispy]

The original Athletic article pointed out that there was a text from Latavius Murray to Sean Payton the week BEFORE Hackett was fired that said LM and #3 wanted him in Denver. A) That's not allowed when Payton's under contract. B) It's so unethical and shows RCW was (at least) not committed to winning under Hackett but (probably, considering his underhandedness in Seattle) actively trying to sabotage the team until Hackett was ousted. In essence, to me, this proves RCWs inappropriate behavior toward his Coach and ultimately, his team. It's replicated. He orchestrated Payton's move to Denver while simultaneously talking about his respect and admiration for Hackett to the press. Anyone who continues to push the "PC/JS was holding back RCWs greatness" simply and completely is contradicting all of the evidence.

Had JAllen chosen a single player over the existing executive staff, Seattle would be without 4 picks and 3 players from the trade. Seattle would be without an additional 2 picks for Payton. That's 9 players. Additionally, Seattle's cap would include RCWs extension which means the situation would result in, both, many fewer drafted rookies and many fewer valuable FAs. ...resulting in a team makeup of cheap, unwanted FAs.

Seattle would be without Comeback POTY. Seattle would probably be without finalists for both OROTY and DROTY because KW and TW wouldn't have been chosen by JSs replacement. Seattle would be without rookie bookend OTs.

Similar to the above, Denver is losing several starting FAs. They have no high draft picks for 2 years. They have a tiny margin of cap so will, at best, only attract tier 2 FAs. RCW will have to carry the O and score enough because the weakened D can't hold points under 10 like last season. RCW singlehandedly created a perfect storm of failure...but he's got a thick wallet and is headed to Italy so....

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Good comparison by Calkin to how differently the fans treat Lynch and Sherman. I was listening to the Mina Times podcast the other and she mentioned talking to Seahawk players at the Pro Bowl, despite any faults Pete has his players love him and love competing for him.
So hypothetically if players love Pete and Jody Allen goes along with Russ and picks him. Even if we get a better tactician like Sean Payton, how's that locker room?

 

[RiverDog]

I get where you're coming from. I do think, however, that Schultz's rep out here as a business icon was a bit higher than you stated, and that it was viewed as a big positive when he bought the Sonics.

I guess my feelings toward Schultz are just more *negative* than they are with RW. When I think of the worst feelings a member of the greater Seattle sports community gives me, Schultz towers over RW to me. I guess that's a little different than in how far such a person's rep fell. I guess it's more in how you frame the question.

Yeah, I might have discounted Schultz's reputation in my characterizations. But he was more of a neutral figure than someone like Paul Allen, who stepped in at a time when the franchise was on the brink of moving. A better analogy might be to use a grading scale, with Schultz going from a C+ to an F while Russell went from an A+ to an F.

 

[Jville]

I wonder about the role of Wilson's long term agent Mark Rodgers. Rodgers interest in Russell dates all the way back to Wilson's days at North Carolina State. And in the process of negotiating an agreement for that huge second contract, he certainly became familiar with ownership and management. Hard to presume that Rodgers was just an idle observer in the back ground as Russell's time with the Seahawks came to a noisy close.