Wilson wanted PC and JS fired?

[toffee]

Pete Carroll's official response to the article:

 

[Jville]

Pete Carroll's official response to the article:

Excellent segment. Although it addresses other more current and important topics. Thanks for posting.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Sean Payton: No one would have complained about Russell Wilson's private office if Broncos had won

At his introductory news conference, Sean Payton didn't waste any time publicly squashing Russell Wilson's special perks at the team facility.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Eamon696]

”If you hang with them, it all comes back around.”

This isn’t exactly a denial of what Russ is Suspected of. Sounds to me like Pete is pointing out karma.

Russ said he wanted Peyton. Well Now he’s got Peyton, who will put him on a shorter leash.
.

That's not at all what that quote was referring to - Pete was essentially saying that he is always going to be positive towards his current and former players, because time can heal those wounds and they often will come back yearning for what they had with the Seahawks. Pete is saying that he thinks, with time, Russ and the Seahawks/him can return to a relationship they once had.

I think many of us questioned Sherm or Marshawn coming back into the fold with the Seahawks, but look at what has happened over these past few years.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Honestly, Russ is different from Sherm or Marshawn. Both hadn’t a choice but to move on and more important never trashed our team on their Later ones.

 

[Torc]

Pete Carroll's official response to the article:

I notice that "nothing like that ever happened" was not part of his answer.

 

[NoGain]

Whatever you think of PC as a coach, all the ins and outs of it, I have never doubted that he is a good human being and a class act as a coach. He's the kind of guy you want to succeed. He really cares about people, his players, respects them, and I think that his players, whatever they might feel about him at a particular time, most always come around to that opinion about him.

Sometimes he drives me nuts with his game-planning and his situational decision making processes, but I've never doubted his ability to make a team, a real team, out of a group of individuals.

 

[toffee]

I notice that "nothing like that ever happened" was not part of his answer.

Peter didn't allow one of these two words: "Russell Wilson", to touch his lips when addressing the news article, Peter also didn't deny that it happened. Peter expressed his love for ex-hawks players.

 

[OrangeGravy]

The neutral philosophy isnt anything new. its a centuries old buddhist tenet thats been hijacked, repacked and sold in the west as 'new' thinking. At its core, its not just about staying neutral when things go bad, its about trying to stay close to neutral always, recognizing that highs are high, because there are lows, and vice-versa. its life teaching stuff.

But Russ has been Russ from the beginning. it for sure goes as far back as NC State when he lied about his exit story and glorified his own character at the expense of that of his coach.

Nothing has changed, its just now that every can see it as not hate, but the fact of who Russ is - Always looking to maximize 'ME' at most any cost. And he weaves a web of conspirators into his narratives to bolster his version of the truth.

He characterized his college coach as a guy who held him back because he didnt want to support his 2 sport passion. Wasnt true.

He, according to teammates, wasnt one to shoulder blame squarely for his own struggles early in his career when HIS flaws were the weak link in a legacy team that featured generational talent on defense and in the backfield. Its now obvious the fracture that caused in the lockerrom and PCs refusal to check Russ's ego became a chasm too far to span in the half dozen years that followed.

And along the way, his lack of football accumen resulted in two OCs being let go for their inability to either get through to him and force him to improve, or not having the creativity to find a way to design a coherent scheme around him - a centerpiece that was almost impossible to nail down because what Russ did well was what he wanted to do, not what the playbook dictated or the coach asked for. How do you solve for constant unpredictability? You cant, unless you limit the influence of it and build your philosophy around something else, like the run game.

But absent the ability to evaluate exactly what the failures were game to game, fans and the media glammed onto the highlight reel that was Wilson and assumed the fault for the team's failures lay elsewhere. And Russ, no doubt hearing frustration from his coach and FO decided to again lean on a conspirator - this time the tide of the masses to lift him up ... and then drown his critics with it, all the while proclaiming himself a victim in a plot to squelch his Goodguy, God-fearing, do-gooder image and immense talent that he built through hardwork while guys like Obrian, PC and JS tried to hold him back. And along the way, he leaned on people he good get to early and manipulate to see his side - DK, Marshall, Olson... he apparently tried to sway Bobby on his exit.

Its no wonder Russ lobbied so hard for Antonio Brown when the entire league knew he was too much to deal with. Russ saw a character that he no doubt knew would be on his side with blind criticism of anyone or anything that stopped him from getting the ball. They would have been like peas in a pod.

But for certain, had he had his way, Shane would have been the next to fall, and after, anyone else who might see the truth in him and not side with his victim narrative... PC and JS.

You need look no further for verification of this than the way he handled PC's and even Shane's criticism in the media during his last year here. Obstanant, indignant, unapologetic. He'd lready passed the point of mutiny and flat didnt care anymore. It would either be his way or no way. So it didnt matter what Shane drew up. Russ was doing what Russ wanted.

As much as you might want to criticize Pete and John for their misses over the years, one thing you can certainly say is that they are salt of the earth, good human beings. That characteristic precedes them both. And from all accounts, its one they share with the team owner. So, for JS to be as cold and critical of Russ sat the announcemnet of his trade speaks volumes. For a player that should have menat the world to this organization, JS offered what amounted to a 'thanks, bye'. And jody followed with about a strong a rebutal to Russ's claim that he didnt know the trade was coming and that he loved the team and city as one could without flat calling him a liar. PC, though he was much softer early on obviously saw no shame in trying to do whatever he could week 1 to beat Russ and then in the weeks that followed, periodically dropped veiled criticisms toward #3 with remarks celebrating the coachability, likeability and even football knowledge his new QB possessed - elememts the last guy at the position lacked.

And none of that even touches on his self serving, image boosting 'philanthropic' initiatives.

I know it sucks to have been duped by the guy over all of these years, but he WAS legitimately an incredible talent and he did deliver some of the most iconic plays in our team's history. But he is what he is. and what he's shown to be is self interested, with a willingness to lie and tear down others if it means he benefits. Plain and simple.

Very true. My personal RW fan time-line goes like this:
First 3 years: pleasantly surprised and optimistically anticipating growth in the pocket leading to better 3rd down production. I grated at the national perception of him ( which turned out to basically hold true in the end ). I ultimately appreciated an understated QB that could make incredible plays.

Next phase (2015-2017)?: The period post first contract extension. His production got better, kind of, in some ways, but was still lacking. I too bristled at the 2018 @ Dallas playoff game. I agreed early on with sentiments that things needed to be opened up on offense.

From 2nd contract extension to present: Once he started trying to be cool Russ, I was instantly out. The veil completely shattered and the fake facade was lit up like a Christmas tree. At that point I started actually looking deeper into his play and not just taking the TV production view as gospel. His game collapses quite quickly under legit scrutiny. I had buyer's remorse after 2019 season. Wish we'd traded him instead of extending.

I think I could've put up with the shortcomings on the field for a few years longer if cool d-bag Russ never showed up. I'm sure at some point I wouldn't have wanted to pay him that much for being half a QB, but I wouldn't loathe him like I do now. I'm usually immediately skeptical of anyone who prophesses too often about something, whether it be their religious beliefs or anything else or how great they are something. It usually means they aren't. It just took longer for Russell's true colors to appear

 

[OrangeGravy]

I hope NFL Network catches Sean, Pete and JS in the stands comparing notes during QB drills at the Combine.

Russell would hate that

 

[OrangeGravy]

Honestly, Russ is different from Sherm or Marshawn. Both hadn’t a choice but to move on and more important never trashed our team on their Later ones.

For me and I'm sure a few fans, Russell is permanently out. If it were up to me he'd never be asked back by the organization for anything. If he wants to come back, he can buy a ticket. No ring of honor, no raising the flag. Whatever tge opposite of retiring a player's number is, that's what I'd do. I'm sure the organization will have him back at some point and I hope he gets boo'd again

 

[RiverDog]

That's about as classy a way to handle it as can be and entirely in keeping with who Pete is.

A classy way to handle it? He ducked the question and gave an answer that was nonsensical and irrelevant to the subject. A good reporter would have followed it up with something like "Coach, can you give us a yes or no answer: Did Russell tell management to either fire you or trade him?" But writers and reporters have to worry about their relationship with guys like Pete if they want to continue to get interviews with him, so it's in their best interests not to piss him off.

Rather than Pete giving such a rambling, unrelated response, he could have said something like Schneider gave, saying basically that the issue is water under the bridge and that he wasn't going to discuss it.

If Pete were completely honest and up front, he could have said something like "Russell and I didn't see eye to eye and he felt that it would be better for the two of us to go our separate ways." The only problem is that Russell had already lied about the subject and a statement like that would have put Russ on the defensive, and to that extent, I can understand Carroll's giving Russell some cover.

But ducking a question with such a pile of baloney is considered 'classy'? I'd be more tempted to call it "classic Pete" as it's another example of how there are times that he can be full of more chit than a Christmas goose.

 

[keasley45]

A classy way to handle it? He ducked the question and gave an answer that was nonsensical and irrelevant to the subject. A good reporter would have followed it up with something like "Coach, can you give us a yes or no answer: Did Russell tell management to either fire you or trade him?" But writers and reporters have to worry about their relationship with guys like Pete if they want to continue to get interviews with him, so it's in their best interests not to piss him off.

Rather than Pete giving such a rambling, unrelated response, he could have said something like Schneider gave, saying basically that the issue is water under the bridge and that he wasn't going to discuss it.

If Pete were completely honest and up front, he could have said something like "Russell and I didn't see eye to eye and he felt that it would be better for the two of us to go our separate ways." The only problem is that Russell had already lied about the subject and a statement like that would have put Russ on the defensive, and to that extent, I can understand Carroll's giving Russell some cover.

But ducking a question with such a pile of baloney is considered 'classy'? I'd be more tempted to call it "classic Pete" as it's another example of how there are times that he can be full of more chit than a Christmas goose.

Yes. Not piling on in the media and creating even more drama by saying ' yeah, Russ wanted us fired...' is classy. Confirming it in words makes Russ look worse.
Pete defused the whole deal and basically said there's no story here for you to follow and that regardless of whatever happens between he and any player, his door is always open.

It's now a non story,... kindling with no flame... which, for the benefit of Russ and the organizations future, is the best way to go.

 

[JPatera76]

Yes. Not piling on in the media and creating even more drama by saying ' yeah, Russ wanted us fired...' is classy. Confirming it in words makes Russ look worse.
Pete defused the whole deal and basically said there's no story here for you to follow and that regardless of whatever happens between he and any player, his door is always open.

It's now a non story,... kindling with no flame... which, for the benefit of Russ and the organizations future, is the best way to go.

Agreed it was classy. I’m glad PC answered it the way he did. No reason to throw fuel on the fire. Instead he let it just burn out.

 

[RiverDog]

Yes. Not piling on in the media and creating even more drama by saying ' yeah, Russ wanted us fired...' is classy. Confirming it in words makes Russ look worse.
Pete defused the whole deal and basically said there's no story here for you to follow and that regardless of whatever happens between he and any player, his door is always open.

It's now a non story,... kindling with no flame... which, for the benefit of Russ and the organizations future, is the best way to go.

Not coming out and calling Russell a liar was classy, but the way he said it was comical.

Did you ever watch the Ken Burns documentary "Baseball"? In it, they talked about Casey Stengel, manager of the Yankees in the 50's. If he didn't want to answer a question or didn't know the answer to one, he'd reply in such a way that he jumbled things up so much that no one had a clue as to what the hell he was talking about. Reporters would walk away rolling their eyes and scratching their heads and ask each other "what was it that he said?" They had a name for it: Stengelese. No one that I know of considered it 'classy.'

It's known as the mushroom treatment: Keep them in the dark and feed them bull$hit.

 

[Torc]

Not coming out and calling Russell a liar was classy, but the way he said it was comical.

Did you ever watch the Ken Burns documentary "Baseball"? In it, they talked about Casey Stengel, manager of the Yankees in the 50's. If he didn't want to answer a question or didn't know the answer to one, he'd reply in such a way that he jumbled things up so much that no one had a clue as to what the hell he was talking about. Reporters would walk away rolling their eyes and scratching their heads and ask each other "what was it that he said?" They had a name for it: Stengelese. No one that I know of considered it 'classy.'

It's known as the mushroom treatment: Keep them in the dark and feed them bull$hit.

It wasn't BS at all. He just wasn't talking to you. Or Mike Florio. He was declining to throw Russ under the bus, and he was reaching out an olive branch to Russ.

He could have denied it, no one would have believed him. He could have said "yes, Russ went to Jody and asked for us to be fired" and it would have (further) damaged Russ' reputation with players, coaches and fans. This was a no-win question for Pete, and he gave a great answer.

 

[sc85sis]

Pete is not just a coach. He feels like his players are his kids. He answered it like a parent. He loves his guys, he will always be there if they need him and he’s forgiving.

He actually said quite a lot with his reply. Was it a bit roundabout? Yeah, but that’s just how his brain works. He jokes he has undiagnosed ADHD; based on all I’ve ever read about him, I think he’s probably accurate in that assessment.

 

[OrangeGravy]

A classy way to handle it? He ducked the question and gave an answer that was nonsensical and irrelevant to the subject. A good reporter would have followed it up with something like "Coach, can you give us a yes or no answer: Did Russell tell management to either fire you or trade him?" But writers and reporters have to worry about their relationship with guys like Pete if they want to continue to get interviews with him, so it's in their best interests not to piss him off.

Rather than Pete giving such a rambling, unrelated response, he could have said something like Schneider gave, saying basically that the issue is water under the bridge and that he wasn't going to discuss it.

If Pete were completely honest and up front, he could have said something like "Russell and I didn't see eye to eye and he felt that it would be better for the two of us to go our separate ways." The only problem is that Russell had already lied about the subject and a statement like that would have put Russ on the defensive, and to that extent, I can understand Carroll's giving Russell some cover.

But ducking a question with such a pile of baloney is considered 'classy'? I'd be more tempted to call it "classic Pete" as it's another example of how there are times that he can be full of more chit than a Christmas goose.

You're reaching for something that isn't there

 

[OrangeGravy]

Not coming out and calling Russell a liar was classy, but the way he said it was comical.

Did you ever watch the Ken Burns documentary "Baseball"? In it, they talked about Casey Stengel, manager of the Yankees in the 50's. If he didn't want to answer a question or didn't know the answer to one, he'd reply in such a way that he jumbled things up so much that no one had a clue as to what the hell he was talking about. Reporters would walk away rolling their eyes and scratching their heads and ask each other "what was it that he said?" They had a name for it: Stengelese. No one that I know of considered it 'classy.'

It's known as the mushroom treatment: Keep them in the dark and feed them bull$hit.

Again.

 

[Rock_the_Hawk]

There 2 points i want to make.

The first one is, If Mike Sando wrote it, it's true. Anyone who knows Sando, know's he has an unwaivering since of journalistic integrity and thats just a fact!

The second point is PC has Nothing to gain throwing Russ under the bus. Its Not the way Pete has EVER done business....he doesn't think that way. Carroll will use this story to his advantage recruiting Players on the premise of how well the Seahawks treat their players... he will promote the Seahawk culture and the team will gain from it whether it be from FA or the draft.

Just my take