Russell Wilson meme thread

[hawkfan68]

As long as it's a pile on Russell thread, let me throw in another two cents worth.

For one reason or another, Russell hasn't been seeing the field. I've been attending 2-3 games per season, most times in the upper level of the stadium where you can see coverages and receiver patterns. There were lots of times that Russell had open receivers at the 10-15 yard range but opted to throw a lower percentage pass, usually a deep ball. We all assumed that it was his desire for "hero ball", but could it be something else?

Case in point is the Denver game against the Colts, 4th and one at the Indy 5, down by 3 in overtime, a do-or-die play, when Russell opted to throw into a tight window instead of a wide-open KJ Hamler. That wasn't a choice of a first down vs. hero ball, he just plain didn't see Hamler. Is he locking onto his primary receiver and not going through his progression? Is there something wrong with is peripheral vision?

I'm just guessing but maybe his height plays a factor in that area of the field. The short field makes it more difficult for his vision. Maybe that's the same case with why he's averse to the short to intermediate passing game.

 

[RiverDog]

I'm just guessing but maybe his height plays a factor in that area of the field. The short field makes it more difficult for his vision. Maybe that's the same case with why he's averse to the short to intermediate passing game.

In some situations, I'm sure his height is an issue with his field vision, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, he doesn't seem to be taking as deep of drops as he used to, which would make it even more difficult for him to survey the field.

But in this instance, Russell was looking left the entire time. He wasn't under any pressure, didn't even look to his right, then ended up throwing an awkward, sidearm pass into a tight window. Here's the play, judge for yourself:

 

[IndyHawk]

I guess I hadn't seen that.

One of the things that seems a little strange with Russell is that he portrays himself in public as this gregarious, people orientated, attention loving guy who craves companionship, so why would such an open, extroverted person make his friends go through a manager to talk to or even text him?

Great Post right here..This is where the phony act comes in play
He does this forever yet it becomes about him somehow.

 

[IndyHawk]

I'm just guessing but maybe his height plays a factor in that area of the field. The short field makes it more difficult for his vision. Maybe that's the same case with why he's averse to the short to intermediate passing game.

It's not guessing..His height does play a role in passing if he cannot scramble or
doesn't feel like it,his passing windows get really small.
We have had a temperature chart of where he passes and you would be shocked.
I'm not sure where I got it before..Perhaps @keasley45 has the same one stored.

 

[keasley45]

As long as it's a pile on Russell thread, let me throw in another two cents worth.

For one reason or another, Russell hasn't been seeing the field. I've been attending 2-3 games per season, most times in the upper level of the stadium where you can see coverages and receiver patterns. There were lots of times that Russell had open receivers at the 10-15 yard range but opted to throw a lower percentage pass, usually a deep ball. We all assumed that it was his desire for "hero ball", but could it be something else?

Case in point is the Denver game against the Colts, 4th and one at the Indy 5, down by 3 in overtime, a do-or-die play, when Russell opted to throw into a tight window instead of a wide-open KJ Hamler. That wasn't a choice of a first down vs. hero ball nor was it that he didn't read the defense. He just plain didn't see Hamler. Is he locking onto his primary receiver and not going through his progression? Is there something wrong with is peripheral vision?

I've been through the 'clip posting of broken Wilson plays' on this forum a few times, so wont bother to weigh this post down with them again.

But no, it's not a function of hero ball everytime. There have been literally countless times when he's not seen wide open receivers 'in pattern' that could have moved the chains, beat a blitz, or simply picked up yards. Every game. Every season. I've been accused of cherry picking plays that show a blatant failure and inability to play pretty basic QB.

Experts like Kurt Warner who've done film study and pointed out failures were labeled Russ haters.

Fact is, in Seattle, SOME of his struggles related to poor line blocking. But often, that poor blocking was a result of not making a line shift that he was responsible for calling. Kurt called out a few instances of this in his videos. The D woukd show blitz. No adjustments were called. The ball is hiked, and the play, rather than being audibled to a blitz beater, becomes a jail break. He scrambles, gets dumped, 4th down and fans complain that the blocking is the problem. See the Cards game in the LRC year that we lost in overtime. Classic example of how his inability to read defense, impatience, and not making line shifts cost us a game.


Also problematic are his deep drops to get adequate view of the field. Deep drops = fewer quick, 3 step drop type plays = holding the ball longer and often being outside the envelope of your Tackles protection = pressure and either a sack, incompletion or 'necessary' heroics.

**Also important here is that a playbook with no 3 step drops and few even 5 step drops and a league low from under center number of snaps equals a MAJOR advantage to any opposing defense. The D knows generally where hes going to be on every play if he's no longer a mobile qb. They dont have to honor the quick pass. Lb can either drop into a soft zone and read Russ and D lineman can dictate pressure from whatever side they want to firce him to throw from a spot. This is EXACTLY what we did agaisnt him in week 1 last year. Pete knew where Russ wohkd set up (deep) and knew he wasnt as good throwing from the left side of the field. we simply put him where we wanted him because he is so limited in getting thr ball out from shallower drops. **

Despite being only a shade taller than Russ, Brees had no issue playing from under center and hitting his back foot on 3 and 5 step drops and getting the ball out wherever it needed to be. There are highlights of him hitting a callow crossed from the far endzone where you can't even see Drew and then all of a sudden, the ball appears in a narrow lane in the line and huts his receiver in stride.

That was a fairly common occurrence in NO. Can Russ do that? He rarely has. And the few memorable occasions where we threw an inside slant...say, on a rub route, didn't end well.

He has a good number of challenges to overcome. And if he manages to flip a switch and fix it all, he will be one of the first qbs in league history to make such a dramatic change, if not the first to do it in one season. I can't think of one right now that showed such a liability and ever fixed it.

 

[RiverDog]

I've been through the 'clip posting of broken Wilson plays' on this forum a few times, so wont bother to weigh this post down with them again.

But no, it's not a function of hero ball everytime. There have been literally countless times when he's not seen wide open receivers 'in pattern' that could have moved the chains, beat a blitz, or simply picked up yards. Every game. Every season. I've been accused of cherry picking plays that show a blatant failure and inability to play pretty basic QB.

Experts like Kurt Warner who've done film study and pointed out failures were labeled Russ haters.

Fact is, in Seattle, SOME of his struggles related to poor line blocking. But often, that poor blocking was a result of not making a line shift that he was responsible for calling. Kurt called out a few instances of this in his videos. The D woukd show blitz. No adjustments were called. The ball is hiked, and the play, rather than being audibled to a blitz beater, becomes a jail break. He scrambles, gets dumped, 4th down and fans complain that the blocking is the problem. See the Cards game in the LRC year that we lost in overtime. Classic example of how his inability to read defense, impatience, and not making line shifts cost us a game.


Also problematic are his deep drops to get adequate view of the field. Deep drops = fewer quick, 3 step drop type plays = holding the ball longer and often being outside the envelope of your Tackles protection = pressure and either a sack, incompletion or 'necessary' heroics.

He has a good number of challenges to overcome. And if he manages to flip a switch and fix it all, he will be one of the first qbs in league history to make such a dramatic change. And I can't think of one right now that showed such a liability and ever fixed it.

That's a very good breakdown, and I agree with all of it up until the last paragraph.

There have been quarterbacks that have had significant challenges but fixed them. Steve Young was a full fledged bust in Tampa Bay, threw more INT's than TD's, but when he left a poor team in Tampa and went a great team in San Francisco with their system and after backing up the great Joe Montana, turned himself into a HOF'er. That's obviously not completely analogues to Russell's situation in Denver, but it is an example of a quarterback making a dramatic change.

Another QB to flip a switch and turn things around was Kurt Warner, who had lost his starting job with the Rams to Marc Bulger, was waived, was a bust in his one season with the Giants and replaced by Eli, then went to the Cards and took them to a Super Bowl and eventually inducted into the HOF.

So there are examples. They may not be relevant to the situation Russell faces, but it has happened.

 

[keasley45]

That's a very good breakdown, and I agree with all of it up until the last paragraph.

There have been quarterbacks that have had significant challenges but fixed them. Steve Young was a full fledged bust in Tampa Bay, threw more INT's than TD's, but when he left a poor team in Tampa and went a great team in San Francisco with their system and after backing up the great Joe Montana, turned himself into a HOF'er. That's obviously not completely analogues to Russell's situation in Denver, but it is an example of a quarterback making a dramatic change.

Another QB to flip a switch and turn things around was Kurt Warner, who had lost his starting job with the Rams to Marc Bulger, was waived, was a bust in his one season with the Giants and replaced by Eli, then went to the Cards and took them to a Super Bowl and eventually inducted into the HOF.

So there are examples. They may not be relevant to the situation Russell faces, but it has happened.

Good examples of guys who turned things around, but both of them were capable of diagnosing defenses and processed information quickly. Warner excelled as soon as he arrived in St Louis in one of the most varied and prolific offenses of all time.

Young was nabbed by SF because Bill Walsh saw the ability he had and traded for him. Much in the same way that Payton saw the potential in Stidham and made him a Bronco.

A quote from an article on Walsh:

"Bill wanted Steve Young.

We were all highly skeptical but also intrigued. A big part of Walsh’s genius was his uncanny ability to spot a quarterback in a crowd. Even from a distance and after only a few throws, he could sense immediately if a quarterback could run his offense. Guys like Walsh and Belichick are unusual this way: They can visualize how skill sets fit in their schemes in a way that both maximizes those abilities and fuels the system. Walsh was secretive about that particular gift of his; he never shared what he saw. So he seemed like a railbird at the track who could discern the best horses just by studying their gait around the paddock. It might have been footwork, a kinetically clean throwing motion, the way a quarterback carried himself in the pocket, or, more likely, some mystical balance of several QB qualities floating around in his head — but whatever it was, Walsh knew it when he saw it."

I still can't think of parallel to Russ.

 

[toffee]

Good examples of guys who turned things around, but both of them were capable of diagnosing defenses and processed information quickly. Warner excelled as soon as he arrived in St Louis in one of the most varied and prolific offenses of all time.

Young was nabbed by SF because Bill Walsh saw the ability he had and traded for him. Much in the same way that Payton saw the potential in Stidham and made him a Bronco.

A quote from an article on Walsh:

"Bill wanted Steve Young.

We were all highly skeptical but also intrigued. A big part of Walsh’s genius was his uncanny ability to spot a quarterback in a crowd. Even from a distance and after only a few throws, he could sense immediately if a quarterback could run his offense. Guys like Walsh and Belichick are unusual this way: They can visualize how skill sets fit in their schemes in a way that both maximizes those abilities and fuels the system. Walsh was secretive about that particular gift of his; he never shared what he saw. So he seemed like a railbird at the track who could discern the best horses just by studying their gait around the paddock. It might have been footwork, a kinetically clean throwing motion, the way a quarterback carried himself in the pocket, or, more likely, some mystical balance of several QB qualities floating around in his head — but whatever it was, Walsh knew it when he saw it."

I still can't think of parallel to Russ.

Walsh lost his fast ball in later years, he drafted Giovanni Carmazzi in 3rd round, and Tim Rattay 7th round, in the same year Brady was drafted in 6th round.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

The podcast below was like audio porn for a Seahawk fan lol. A whole bunch of what went wrong in Denver last year. But they also went into signs in Seattle about Russ's game. Solak brought up what happened in 2020 after teams starting doing into the deep shell. He brought up the Rams game....it gave me an instant flashback to that throw across the field into triple coverage with nothing but open field in front to run.
Solak and Ruiz are not convinced that things will work this year saying any offense with Wilson ends up having to revert to Russ-ball

Can Sean Payton Save Russell Wilson?

Ben and Steven look into what went wrong with Russell Wilson’s first year in Denver

www.theringer.com

 

[RiverDog]

Good examples of guys who turned things around, but both of them were capable of diagnosing defenses and processed information quickly. Warner excelled as soon as he arrived in St Louis in one of the most varied and prolific offenses of all time.

Young was nabbed by SF because Bill Walsh saw the ability he had and traded for him. Much in the same way that Payton saw the potential in Stidham and made him a Bronco.

A quote from an article on Walsh:

"Bill wanted Steve Young.

We were all highly skeptical but also intrigued. A big part of Walsh’s genius was his uncanny ability to spot a quarterback in a crowd. Even from a distance and after only a few throws, he could sense immediately if a quarterback could run his offense. Guys like Walsh and Belichick are unusual this way: They can visualize how skill sets fit in their schemes in a way that both maximizes those abilities and fuels the system. Walsh was secretive about that particular gift of his; he never shared what he saw. So he seemed like a railbird at the track who could discern the best horses just by studying their gait around the paddock. It might have been footwork, a kinetically clean throwing motion, the way a quarterback carried himself in the pocket, or, more likely, some mystical balance of several QB qualities floating around in his head — but whatever it was, Walsh knew it when he saw it."

I still can't think of parallel to Russ.

Kurt Warner, like Russell, had considerable success early in his career, then like Russell, saw his performance diminish, and like Russell, changed teams. We can argue about the differences between the two quarterbacks, but that's not the point.

I

Good examples of guys who turned things around, but both of them were capable of diagnosing defenses and processed information quickly. Warner excelled as soon as he arrived in St Louis in one of the most varied and prolific offenses of all time.

Young was nabbed by SF because Bill Walsh saw the ability he had and traded for him. Much in the same way that Payton saw the potential in Stidham and made him a Bronco.

A quote from an article on Walsh:

"Bill wanted Steve Young.

We were all highly skeptical but also intrigued. A big part of Walsh’s genius was his uncanny ability to spot a quarterback in a crowd. Even from a distance and after only a few throws, he could sense immediately if a quarterback could run his offense. Guys like Walsh and Belichick are unusual this way: They can visualize how skill sets fit in their schemes in a way that both maximizes those abilities and fuels the system. Walsh was secretive about that particular gift of his; he never shared what he saw. So he seemed like a railbird at the track who could discern the best horses just by studying their gait around the paddock. It might have been footwork, a kinetically clean throwing motion, the way a quarterback carried himself in the pocket, or, more likely, some mystical balance of several QB qualities floating around in his head — but whatever it was, Walsh knew it when he saw it."

I still can't think of parallel to Russ.

I understand that Young and Warner are not completely analogous to Russell's situation. I doubt that we could find any example of any two quarterbacks that would match the criteria we're assigning to this comparison. All I'm saying is that it is not unprecedented for a quarterback to "flip the switch" and regain their lost magic.

Is it likely that Russell will turn it around? I don't think so. But I'm not confident enough in my assessment to where I'd want to bet a bunch of money on my hunch. Russell has beaten the odds before.

 

[keasley45]

The podcast below was like audio porn for a Seahawk fan lol. A whole bunch of what went wrong in Denver last year. But they also went into signs in Seattle about Russ's game. Solak brought up what happened in 2020 after teams starting doing into the deep shell. He brought up the Rams game....it gave me an instant flashback to that throw across the field into triple coverage with nothing but open field in front to run.
Solak and Ruiz are not convinced that things will work this year saying any offense with Wilson ends up having to revert to Russ-ball

Can Sean Payton Save Russell Wilson?

Ben and Steven look into what went wrong with Russell Wilson’s first year in Denver

www.theringer.com

This is THE single best unbiased review of Wilson that I've heard. Pure gold.

They break down Russ's game from his Seattle days through last year and from a passing perspective, touch on just about everything.

Biggest takeaway for me - in their looking back through his years in Seattle, for all the accolades our offense received, they found that it was an EXTREMELY fragile work. That because of Russ's weaknesses, there was little margin for error in play calling and play balance - run to pass. That it RELIED on the run game working not just as a simple balance, but to make things go at all, because there were so many holes in the passing game.

It's a long listen, but we'll worth it, and covers most a lot of ground in Russ's game and what they think Payton will and won't be able to do for him.

Good nuggets throughout but some real gold starting around 30 minutes in.

I tend to agree with them - that when you look at who ge really is and balance what made him successful against his deficiencies, there are just too many holes for even a coach like Payton to fix.

Can't throw to the middle effectively.

Can't get the ball out quickly.

Can't read the field effectively.

Is almost entirely a shotgun qb...

There's just too much to cover up for. Which is what it's been from the beginning for Russ if he wasnt scrambling to extend plays or threatening defenses with his legs. it's just been made worse with age.

I'll say it again. Pete and Co don't get enough credit for what they were able to build around Wilson. He was a great talent, but required a very nuanced application of football strategy to get our offense to work around what he couldn't do. It's why the balancing act that would work for the majority of the season woukd falter in the playoffs. The margins were just too small, and if a good defense took a small aspect of the offense away, without a great running game and defense, things turned south quickly.

Its also why the idea that he carried the team is so absurd.

 

[Lagartixa]

It's a long listen, but [well] worth it, and covers most a lot of ground in Russ's game and what they think Payton will and won't be able to do for him.

Good nuggets throughout but some real gold starting around 30 minutes in.

I just noticed that Spotify lets you do with podcasts what I do with a lot of content on YouTube: listen at different speeds. I listen to Sci Show and PBS Space Time at double speed on YouTube, and now when I hear the people from those YouTube shows speaking at normal speed, they sound drunk because I'm so used to hearing them at double speed.

The guys on this podcast (Ben and Steven) talk faster, so I found that double speed was just a little too fast, but 1.8x speed is pretty good.

 

[bileever]

The podcast below was like audio porn for a Seahawk fan lol. A whole bunch of what went wrong in Denver last year. But they also went into signs in Seattle about Russ's game. Solak brought up what happened in 2020 after teams starting doing into the deep shell. He brought up the Rams game....it gave me an instant flashback to that throw across the field into triple coverage with nothing but open field in front to run.
Solak and Ruiz are not convinced that things will work this year saying any offense with Wilson ends up having to revert to Russ-ball

This podcast was very informative. Most of it wasn't new, but Ben Solak and Steven Ruiz are smart guys who explained how it all fits together. It was interesting to hear their criticism of RW's problems with processing, accuracy, release time and humility. They point out that players like Jared Goff have gotten better because they developed traits like processing that RW hasn't.

As @keasley45 and @HawkRiderFan (thanks for the link, btw) have said, Solak and Ruiz explain how Pete Carroll was able to take RW's "idiosyncratic" style of play and fashion an "offensive souffle" out of it. They give Pete a lot of credit for completely changing his run scheme to fit RW's needs by making the run game work out of the shotgun, which they say other coaches have tried and failed at.

They're skeptical that Sean Payton can turn things around in Denver. In Payton's last year in New Orleans, he didn't succeed with Jameis Winston, and they claim that Winston is a better pocket passer than RW. To succeed with RW, they think he'll probably have to revert to Russ ball, and that even though Russ might still be able to "create production out of chaotic situations," eventually he'll take a bad sack and there will be too many negative plays to maintain any consistency for the Denver offense.

 

[chris98251]

As long as it's a pile on Russell thread, let me throw in another two cents worth.

For one reason or another, Russell hasn't been seeing the field. I've been attending 2-3 games per season, most times in the upper level of the stadium where you can see coverages and receiver patterns. There were lots of times that Russell had open receivers at the 10-15 yard range but opted to throw a lower percentage pass, usually a deep ball. We all assumed that it was his desire for "hero ball", but could it be something else?

Case in point is the Denver game against the Colts, 4th and one at the Indy 5, down by 3 in overtime, a do-or-die play, when Russell opted to throw into a tight window instead of a wide-open KJ Hamler. That wasn't a choice of a first down vs. hero ball nor was it that he didn't read the defense. He just plain didn't see Hamler. Is he locking onto his primary receiver and not going through his progression? Is there something wrong with is peripheral vision?

Yes multiple 6'5 or more lineman on offense and defense blocking his line of sight.

 

[hawkfan68]

Yes multiple 6'5 or more lineman on offense and defense blocking his line of sight.

Seahawks Starting OL heights in 2016 -

LT - George Fant, 6'5
LG - Mark Glowinski, 6'4
C - Justin Britt, 6'6
RG - Germain Ifedi, 6'5
RT - Garry Gilliam, 6'5

2016 Seattle Seahawks Roster & Players | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2016 Seattle Seahawks Roster, Players , Starters and more on Pro-Football-Reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

2021 Starting OL height-

LT - Duane Brown, 6'4
LG - Damien Lewis, 6'2
C - Ethan Pocic, 6'6
RG - Gabe Jackson, 6'3
RT - Brandon Shell, 6'5

From 2016 through 2021 the Seahawks starting centers were averaging height of 6'6.

 

[NoGain]

Some great analysis in this thread. Nice contributions.

Putting RW's legacy with the Seahawks aside for a moment, I return to a single thought: Thank God PC/JS pulled the trigger on that trade and got the haul they did for it. I heard it was made literally minutes after it became clear that Rodgers wouldn't be available to the Broncos. They were ready to pounce on it. I shudder to think in retrospect about the all but certain lack of better outcomes than the one we got.

Whew!

 

[Ostatehawk]

Jerry Jeudy: Broncos receivers 'going to be a hard group of guys to stop' if everyone stays healthy

Denver Broncos wide receiver Jerry Jeudy says the team's receivers are "going to be a hard group of guys to stop" if everyone stays healthy in 2023.

www.nfl.com

Another non-meme but it will turn into one when the Broncos wrs realize that the no1 obstacle in their path to success will be a qb who can't get them the ball.

How long has this been bandied about? Thier receiving corps has been a bunch of underperforming brokedicks for .....well a long time now. Please - get out of here with that crap.

 

[Ostatehawk]

I dont know that Russ will stick around to be viewed as a failure / journeyman. My personal belief is that hes had aspirations beyond football from day 1. People blame Ciara, but she's nothing more than HIS muse. She fits HIS plan and his desired image, not the other way around. He has business ventures and sees his brand as bigger than his football legacy. He will push his career to the degree his football fame feeds his post football goals. So, if this year is a continuation of last, and he bombs again I think he pulls the plug early and calls it due to injury. He can't afford to be viewed as a joke. It will tarnish sales of his perfume, clothes, or whatever else and impact others perception of him as he tries to build relationships in his pursuit of franchise ownership.

Maybe he will manage Ciara's porn career?

 

[RiverDog]

Yes multiple 6'5 or more lineman on offense and defense blocking his line of sight.

That certainly explains some of Russell's difficulties. But he's had that limitation for 11 years as a pro and 4 years in college. It's something he's had to deal with during his entire playing career, so there has to be more than just his height that explains why he's not seeing the field. I've seen too many occasions where he's had an open receiver just beyond the sticks, often times near the sideline where he's not having to see over his linemen, for us to attribute all of his problems to his lack of height.

From what I've seen, he's not getting as deep of drops as he did earlier in his career, which puts him closer to his linemen, and he's developed a tendency to lock in on his primary receiver and doesn't go through his progressions. He'll either try to throw it into a tight window to his primary receiver (ala in OT vs. the Colts) or hold onto the ball and wait for that primary receiver to get open, which could go a long way in explaining Russell's very long time-to-throw stat which has been one of the longest in the league and unrivaled for a quarterback that's north of 30 years old.

 

[keasley45]

Height and processing.

His legs overcame those deficiencies early on. But age and a desire to be more of a pocket passer (less designed runs and runs from rpo's) have hurt him quite a bit.