Per SI: Steelers Done with Russell Wilson

[RolandDeschain]

I get your blaming Pete more than Me3..
Me3 has had 7 different OCs in his time, so I think it's more on him than
the HCs.
What QB has had that many OCs?
Again, I get the Seattle offense was weak in scheme, but it was the best for
a QB who was limited.
People didn't want to see it or admit it but should have after he left.

I disagree vehemently with your assessment that our stupid and simplistic schemes and often illogical play calling was a necessity for Wilson. Pray tell, explain the last play of our last Super Bowl? If we were scheming and play calling to support Wilson, that play is a HORRIFIC example of it....one of many.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Russel was not capable of anything but simplistic offense.

He didn't run Schotty's scheme half the time even though it worked.

He ignored what Waldron did and Russ under him looked just like Russ under Schotty.

Then Geno under Waldron looked like an actual drop back read and throw offense that was good enough to garner Geno an MVP vote - Same OC, same 'conservative' HC, entirely different results.

Meanwhile Russ goes to Denver and trues to run a scheme that was anything but conservative and fails. Then he gets an offensive genius to call in plays and famously is forced to wear a wristband because he cant get the terminology down. 15 games in, he is benched, then cut, for failing to run a real offense.

Pittsburgh? Different team, same story.

And say what you want about D Bevell, but when he left here, the offenses he called in Detroit were anything but conservative. In the two years he was there, Detroit finished in the top 10 in passing yards and both years were better than Seattle's passing offense.

The offense was dumbed down for Russ because that's what he was capable of. Since he's been forced to play within a system and actually run non simplified plays, he has been on the struggle bus and this year, tried again to live off script and ignore his OC, just like he did in Seattle.

Ugh. Do you realize how much more creativity you can do with scheming WITHOUT HAVING TO RELY ON THE QUARTERBACK? There ARE other players out on the field for offense, you know. We could have started at some point in the past by doing more designed running outside the tackles, for example, like every other ****ing team in the league does. You hate Wilson and want to blame it all on him, fine. I'm not defending Wilson. Making him the scapegoat for everything is asinine, though.

 

[IndyHawk]

I disagree vehemently with your assessment that our stupid and simplistic schemes and often illogical play calling was a necessity for Wilson. Pray tell, explain the last play of our last Super Bowl? If we were scheming and play calling to support Wilson, that play is a HORRIFIC example of it....one of many.

We have had many discussions of that last play, in fact one like 2 weeks ago.
I think you have some catching up to do so I'm not getting into it here.
You can disagree with me and it's good that we agree to disagree.

 

[toffee]

I disagree vehemently with your assessment that our stupid and simplistic schemes and often illogical play calling was a necessity for Wilson. Pray tell, explain the last play of our last Super Bowl? If we were scheming and play calling to support Wilson, that play is a HORRIFIC example of it....one of many.

Wilson's hand-picked offense genius, a coach that Wilson idolized, and dreamed about, outright fired Wilson after coaching him, that tells me more than I need to know. Here happier times:

 

[RolandDeschain]

Wilson's hand-picked offense genius, a coach that Wilson idolized, and dreamed about, outright fired Wilson after coaching him, that tells me more than I need to know. Here happier times:

Sean Payton is also an egomaniac who doesn't want to inherit anything from anyone that he didn't himself choose, I wouldn't read TOO much into that. While the Broncos did go 10-7 this past season, their "win" in week 17 was against KC's backups with the starters resting for the playoffs, and the Broncos got humiliated in wild card weekend. It's not like getting rid of Wilson instantly made them a much better team.

 

[keasley45]

Ugh. Do you realize how much more creativity you can do with scheming WITHOUT HAVING TO RELY ON THE QUARTERBACK? There ARE other players out on the field for offense, you know. We could have started at some point in the past by doing more designed running outside the tackles, for example, like every other ****ing team in the league does. You hate Wilson and want to blame it all on him, fine. I'm not defending Wilson. Making him the scapegoat for everything is asinine, though.

If hou read my posts, i actually gove him a ton of credit for being as good as he is and i dont hate him at all.

Folks just dont like the fact that ge succeeded DESPITE not knoeing how to doagnose coverage, DESPITE not being able to see the short areas of the field and DESPITE not have a quick twitch processot that allowed him to get the ball out quickly.

Those facts are indisputable and when it came to the playoffs and stiff defenses (especially later in his career after the entire league knew what his gane was) his tricks inevitably failed.

Its not hating Russ. Its fans of his who even until this day, in the face of everything he has shown himself to be, STILL claim critics are playing the hate card when all they are saying is the EXACT same thing every FO in the league knows, and Denver and Pittsburgh know intimately. If he could EVER read defense and was EVER skilled at running an offense, he would be leaning on those skills now, later in his career as those skills would be more honed and at their peak as his escapability has declined. Is that the case? No. He still cant diganose defeslnse and get the ball out quickly in the flow of a play AND he cant extend plays anymore with his legs to overcome that shortcoming.

And if thats hate, then Nat Hackett, Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, Arthur Smith and 30 other teams in the league who likely wont bring him on with any hopes of winning much with him as starter or have cast him aside for the EXACT reasons i mentioned, hate him too.

 

[RolandDeschain]

That's the reply you should have posted rather than the one I quoted.

 

[Lagartixa]

Sean Payton is also an egomaniac who doesn't want to inherit anything from anyone that he didn't himself choose, I wouldn't read TOO much into that.

Funny how Saint Russell the Blameless keeps getting awful coaches. What terrible luck! First Pete Carroll, then a guy who was being hailed as a young offensive "genius" like Little Shanny in the Big Hat and McVay until he was forced to try to build an offense around a quarterback who can't read defenses, then Sean Payton, then Mike Tomlin. Crazy how everywhere he goes, Saint Ruseelll the Blameless, despite his obvious perfection and lack of flaws, somehow gets terrible coaches that just ruin everything.

While the Broncos did go 10-7 this past season, their "win" in week 17 was against KC's backups with the starters resting for the playoffs, and the Broncos got humiliated in wild card weekend. It's not like getting rid of Wilson instantly made them a much better team.

Yeah, it's not like getting rid of Wilson made the Broncos a better team because it is that exactly that happened.
The Broncos' offense went from 26th to 19th in yards and from 19th to 10th in scoring just by replacing Wilson with a rookie QB.

Your view of Wilson flies in the face of the view held by the three NFL teams that know Wilson best, the ones who have actually had him in their facilities, the ones who most deeply understand his true strengths and weaknesses, and he has just worn out his welcome with his third team in just over three years. If he's as good as you think he is, and if him playing like he can't read a defense is just an illusion caused by bad coaching, why don't those NFL teams that have had him want him on their rosters?

 

[pittpnthrs]

He ran like a chicken half the time because thats how he plays. If he'd gotten the ball out when it was supposed to, he wouldnt suffer the sacks he does. He's had high sack numbers everywhere because no line can protect him from himself.

We've been through this before Keas. Yeah, I admit Wilson's improv style was the reason for a lot of sacks, but almost all QB's under a Pete Carroll system collects a ton of sacks. Scheme, Oline, etc,,,. It just is what it is.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Russel was not capable of anything but simplistic offense.

He didn't run Schotty's scheme half the time even though it worked.

He ignored what Waldron did and Russ under him looked just like Russ under Schotty.

Then Geno under Waldron looked like an actual drop back read and throw offense that was good enough to garner Geno an MVP vote - Same OC, same 'conservative' HC, entirely different results.

Meanwhile Russ goes to Denver and trues to run a scheme that was anything but conservative and fails. Then he gets an offensive genius to call in plays and famously is forced to wear a wristband because he cant get the terminology down. 15 games in, he is benched, then cut, for failing to run a real offense.

Pittsburgh? Different team, same story.

And say what you want about D Bevell, but when he left here, the offenses he called in Detroit were anything but conservative. In the two years he was there, Detroit finished in the top 10 in passing yards and both years were better than Seattle's passing offense.

The offense was dumbed down for Russ because that's what he was capable of. Since he's been forced to play within a system and actually run non simplified plays, he has been on the struggle bus and this year, tried again to live off script and ignore his OC, just like he did in Seattle.

I'm calling BS on this, but nothing can be proved as Wilson was only in his prime once for one team. Denver shouldn't even count in these discussions because he had limited weapons that were injured the majority of the time and he was done at that point anyways (same in Pittsburgh).

He didn't ignore Waldron either. I'll go to my grave believing Pete neutered his game calling because it didn't fit with what he wanted to do. The very first game he called against the Colts was a thing of beauty. Magically, there was never another game called like that during the remainder of his tenure. Crazy.

Anyway, the offense wasn't dumbed down for Wilson during his prime in Seattle because of him. If anything, it was dumbed down by Pete because he hates turnovers and wanted to play clock control. Wilson does get himself in trouble trying to make things happen admittedly, but that has always been the way he plays because it was asked of him so often.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Wilson's hand-picked offense genius, a coach that Wilson idolized, and dreamed about, outright fired Wilson after coaching him, that tells me more than I need to know. Here happier times:

View attachment 69506

Many have said, don't meet your heros as you'll be disappointed most of the times.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah, it's not like getting rid of Wilson made the Broncos a better team because it is that exactly that happened.
The Broncos' offense went from 26th to 19th in yards and from 19th to 10th in scoring just by replacing Wilson with a rookie QB.

Your view of Wilson flies in the face of the view held by the three NFL teams that know Wilson best, the ones who have actually had him in their facilities, the ones who most deeply understand his true strengths and weaknesses, and he has just worn out his welcome with his third team in just over three years. If he's as good as you think he is, and if him playing like he can't read a defense is just an illusion caused by bad coaching, why don't those NFL teams that have had him want him on their rosters?

Wilson's been done for years now. It's amazing that a team brought in a young QB and saw some success. I know another team (that we all root for) that should take a page out of that script.

 

[keasley45]

I'm calling BS on this, but nothing can be proved as Wilson was only in his prime once for one team. Denver shouldn't even count in these discussions because he had limited weapons that were injured the majority of the time and he was done at that point anyways (same in Pittsburgh).

He didn't ignore Waldron either. I'll go to my grave believing Pete neutered his game calling because it didn't fit with what he wanted to do. The very first game he called against the Colts was a thing of beauty. Magically, there was never another game called like that during the remainder of his tenure. Crazy.

Anyway, the offense wasn't dumbed down for Wilson during his prime in Seattle because of him. If anything, it was dumbed down by Pete because he hates turnovers and wanted to play clock control. Wilson does get himself in trouble trying to make things happen admittedly, but that has always been the way he plays because it was asked of him so often.

you dont know how to read defense early in your career and then forget.

Why was it dumbed down by Pete with Russ... and then opened up by Pete with Geno?

Why was Bevell not a pass happy guy in Seattle, but then went to Detroit and put together passing games there that were better than what he had in Seattle and better than Seattles over the 2 years he was there?

Why was Waldron feast or famine with Russ, looking like the typical PA, hold the ball, hero ball offense, yet with Geno, significntly more varied and adept at attacking the whole field?

Why was Sean Payton running a 'checkdown charlie' offense with Russ, and much more open with Nix?

Speaking of which, why did Peyton go out of his way to push back on praise of Wilson for hitting a few broken play scramble bombs to win a game last year and comment that - 'you cant win that way... its not sustainable...' - basically throwing his style of play under the bus. Why? because he was 100% correct and knew that's what Russ's game always was and spent a year trying to break him from it. He failed because that's the only way Russ can play.

And then... why did he cut him? No one is going to teach Russell Wilson to read defense in year 13.

You like to frame the difference between you and I in how we see Wilson as you appreciating him, and me hating him. That's not the case. I appreciate the dude for what he did for a period as part of a complete team. He could be brilliant and often was. But where we differ is that for years, the 3 and out offense, the inability to sustain drives late in the year, the inability to effectively adapt to what opposing teams were doing... you and Russ's fans attribute all of those failures to Pete, the O line and whatever failed offensive system Russ was tied to. Fact is, unlike now, there was no system that was run to even measure the effectiveness of. The offense started and stopped with Russ, always. We never saw Bevell's Detroit offense in Seattle because it was impossible to run here. We never saw Waldron's offense with Geno under Russ because Russ couldnt do it. We didnt go 3 and out over and over again because the plays werent there. We were a 3 and out machine - like Denver was and Pittsburgh started to become over Russ's last few starts there, because Russ couldnt execute the plays effectively and when he failed at running them, if he couldnt run around and make something happen anyway, the whole deal fell apart.

And the o-line? Russ will always be a sack machine because in the NFL, if you cant get rid of the ball in 2 seconds after the snap, if you cant extend the play with your legs, you arent going to be starter for long.

I just dont see how anyone can continue to argue that Russ is being 'hated on' when the troubles that plagued him here have followed him to 2 teams, 3 coaches, and 3 play callers. since he left Seattle.

 

[Seahawker]

At least we got a 1st from the Bears for Mirer and got a haul for RW.
Without that our fifty year search for a franchise QB would be even more of a nightmare.
Amazing that RW continues to get so many key punches in here.

 

[Palmegranite]

you dont know how to read defense early in your career and then forget.

Why was it dumbed down by Pete with Russ... and then opened up by Pete with Geno?

Why was Bevell not a pass happy guy in Seattle, but then went to Detroit and put together passing games there that were better than what he had in Seattle and better than Seattles over the 2 years he was there?

Why was Waldron feast or famine with Russ, looking like the typical PA, hold the ball, hero ball offense, yet with Geno, significntly more varied and adept at attacking the whole field?

Why was Sean Payton running a 'checkdown charlie' offense with Russ, and much more open with Nix?

Speaking of which, why did Peyton go out of his way to push back on praise of Wilson for hitting a few broken play scramble bombs to win a game last year and comment that - 'you cant win that way... its not sustainable...' - basically throwing his style of play under the bus. Why? because he was 100% correct and knew that's what Russ's game always was and spent a year trying to break him from it. He failed because that's the only way Russ can play.

And then... why did he cut him? No one is going to teach Russell Wilson to read defense in year 13.

You like to frame the difference between you and I in how we see Wilson as you appreciating him, and me hating him. That's not the case. I appreciate the dude for what he did for a period as part of a complete team. He could be brilliant and often was. But where we differ is that for years, the 3 and out offense, the inability to sustain drives late in the year, the inability to effectively adapt to what opposing teams were doing... you and Russ's fans attribute all of those failures to Pete, the O line and whatever failed offensive system Russ was tied to. Fact is, unlike now, there was no system that was run to even measure the effectiveness of. The offense started and stopped with Russ, always. We never saw Bevell's Detroit offense in Seattle because it was impossible to run here. We never saw Waldron's offense with Geno under Russ because Russ couldnt do it. We didnt go 3 and out over and over again because the plays werent there. We were a 3 and out machine - like Denver was and Pittsburgh started to become over Russ's last few starts there, because Russ couldnt execute the plays effectively and when he failed at running them, if he couldnt run around and make something happen anyway, the whole deal fell apart.

And the o-line? Russ will always be a sack machine because in the NFL, if you cant get rid of the ball in 2 seconds after the snap, if you cant extend the play with your legs, you arent going to be starter for long.

I just dont see how anyone can continue to argue that Russ is being 'hated on' when the troubles that plagued him here have followed him to 2 teams, 3 coaches, and 3 play callers. since he left Seattle.

This reads like 2 pages of desperate conspiracy theories.

I also call BS on your endless "hot takes".

 

[Lagartixa]

At least we got a 1st from the Bears for Mirer and got a haul for RW.
Without that our fifty year search for a franchise QB would be even more of a nightmare.
Amazing that RW continues to get so many key punches in here.

I'm not sure how you define "franchise quarterback," but I'd say the Seahawks have had four in those fifty years: Zorn, Krieg, Hasselbeck, and Wilson.

And yes, Zorn is easily the weakest of those four and you might think he doesn't belong on the list, and I'm not gonna fight about that one. So at least three in those fifty years, though.

 

[keasley45]

This reads like 2 pages of desperate conspiracy theories.

I also call BS on your endless "hot takes".

Strange world when fact is framed as conspiracy. Exactly what part of what i wrote isnt true?

The only conspiracy theories that ever were were that Pete meddled - that if we had an offense like (insert any flashy coordinator here, like, i dunno... Sean Payton), Russ would be electric... Remember those days?
How did that work out?
...
That, and that Payton set Russ up to fail.

If its all conspiracy, would be great to hear your side.

 

[SuperSonic67]

He doesn’t get the ball out on schedule. Never has, never will. I’m sure there’s various reasons for this…but a 35-36 year old veteran QB that can’t do that isn’t going to work. For any team…for more than a 1 year rental. He is what he is at this point. Lets see how many teams line up to sign him, and we’ll get our answer.

 

[pittpnthrs]

you dont know how to read defense early in your career and then forget.

Why was it dumbed down by Pete with Russ... and then opened up by Pete with Geno?

Why was Bevell not a pass happy guy in Seattle, but then went to Detroit and put together passing games there that were better than what he had in Seattle and better than Seattles over the 2 years he was there?

Why was Waldron feast or famine with Russ, looking like the typical PA, hold the ball, hero ball offense, yet with Geno, significntly more varied and adept at attacking the whole field?

Why was Sean Payton running a 'checkdown charlie' offense with Russ, and much more open with Nix?

Speaking of which, why did Peyton go out of his way to push back on praise of Wilson for hitting a few broken play scramble bombs to win a game last year and comment that - 'you cant win that way... its not sustainable...' - basically throwing his style of play under the bus. Why? because he was 100% correct and knew that's what Russ's game always was and spent a year trying to break him from it. He failed because that's the only way Russ can play.

And then... why did he cut him? No one is going to teach Russell Wilson to read defense in year 13.

You like to frame the difference between you and I in how we see Wilson as you appreciating him, and me hating him. That's not the case. I appreciate the dude for what he did for a period as part of a complete team. He could be brilliant and often was. But where we differ is that for years, the 3 and out offense, the inability to sustain drives late in the year, the inability to effectively adapt to what opposing teams were doing... you and Russ's fans attribute all of those failures to Pete, the O line and whatever failed offensive system Russ was tied to. Fact is, unlike now, there was no system that was run to even measure the effectiveness of. The offense started and stopped with Russ, always. We never saw Bevell's Detroit offense in Seattle because it was impossible to run here. We never saw Waldron's offense with Geno under Russ because Russ couldnt do it. We didnt go 3 and out over and over again because the plays werent there. We were a 3 and out machine - like Denver was and Pittsburgh started to become over Russ's last few starts there, because Russ couldnt execute the plays effectively and when he failed at running them, if he couldnt run around and make something happen anyway, the whole deal fell apart.

And the o-line? Russ will always be a sack machine because in the NFL, if you cant get rid of the ball in 2 seconds after the snap, if you cant extend the play with your legs, you arent going to be starter for long.

I just dont see how anyone can continue to argue that Russ is being 'hated on' when the troubles that plagued him here have followed him to 2 teams, 3 coaches, and 3 play callers. since he left Seattle.

Keas, bevell had lynch for the majority of his time here. Why would he call a passing offense? Who did he have in Detroit running the ball? It’s not the same.

It’s a known fact that Pete always had one of the most simplistic offenses and defenses while he was here. So much so that nfl pundits and coaches and players have said they knew what was coming before the ball was even snapped. It’s why I always said Pete needed an all star team of optimum talent to succeed. He was going to do what he wanted to do regardless and the other team was dependent on stopping it. When the talent ran out, so did the success. Wilson was good enough in his prime to mask some of that but it was damn near impossible in the post season when you play nothing but good teams.

Wilson’s habits aren’t a product of him, they are a product of what he had to deal with from the beginning of his career. He was constantly under pressure. Of course he scrambled. He had to. Nobody was going to fix him after numerous years of that.

Examples in Denver and Pittsburgh are silly. He was done before those stints.

 

[toffee]

uselessne

He doesn’t get the ball out on schedule. Never has, never will. I’m sure there’s various reasons for this…but a 35-36 year old veteran QB that can’t do that isn’t going to work. For any team…for more than a 1 year rental. He is what he is at this point. Lets see how many teams line up to sign him, and we’ll get our answer.

Got hero ball, will travel.