Poll: Leonard Williams trade

[chrispy]

This trade and PC retiring go hand-in-hand. You can't have one situation without the other. If Williams hadn't come to Seattle, Pete would have had a case that they were 1 piece away...again...because of the abysmal run D. That might have been enough for Allen to keep him around again. I like Pete. I like Williams. But the current D has a lot of holes, more after the last few days.

The trade was necessary for the team to move forward. If it had worked, the team is a contender. It didn't, so you deal with the pieces.

It would be great to get Williams on a long term contract, but it might be impossible. I like the outlook considering the new Coaching staff, scheme and am hopeful about the draft and UDFAcy.

If Williams had remained in NY and Pete remained as HC, I don't think I'd be as excited about Seahawk football next season. So ... the trade sucked... but it also was beneficial.

BTW, we'll also get a comp pick if he leaves...

 

[Parallax]

This trade and PC retiring go hand-in-hand. You can't have one situation without the other. If Williams hadn't come to Seattle, Pete would have had a case that they were 1 piece away...again...because of the abysmal run D. That might have been enough for Allen to keep him around again. I like Pete. I like Williams. But the current D has a lot of holes, more after the last few days.

The trade was necessary for the team to move forward. If it had worked, the team is a contender. It didn't, so you deal with the pieces.

It would be great to get Williams on a long term contract, but it might be impossible. I like the outlook considering the new Coaching staff, scheme and am hopeful about the draft and UDFAcy.

If Williams had remained in NY and Pete remained as HC, I don't think I'd be as excited about Seahawk football next season. So ... the trade sucked... but it also was beneficial.

BTW, we'll also get a comp pick if he leaves...

He was excellent last year but it wasn't remotely enough because our defense was miserable. Only an eternal optimist like Pete could have convinced himself we were one piece away. I was thoroughly sick by then of his delusional hyper-optimism. Just give me the truth, man. Pete "piss on my leg and tell me it's raining" Carroll wasn't capable of that sort of honesty, with himself or anyone else.

 

[projectorfreak]

Like everybody pete had a weakness and being overly optimistic was definitely a flaw he had

 

[Chevy]

I think Williams is a unicorn and will age well. He carries his weight well and is a great athlete for his size. I think he has 5 elite years left in him, which lines up with our current projection for a run at the Super Bowl. If we were going to let him go to another team, we would have put a franchise tag on him. Then traded him for a 2nd round pick this year, as opposed to waiting for a 3rd round comp pick next year.

 

[Parallax]

I think Williams is a unicorn and will age well. He carries his weight well and is a great athlete for his size. I think he has 5 elite years left in him, which lines up with our current projection for a run at the Super Bowl. If we were going to let him go to another team, we would have put a franchise tag on him. Then traded him for a 2nd round pick this year, as opposed to waiting for a 3rd round comp pick next year.

What makes you think he's a unicorn? Is he in better shape than Kam when he signed his last contract? Or Thomas? Or Sherm?

 

[BASF]

Some need a reality check regarding last seasons team. As miserable as the defense was, we were one missed field goal away from double digit wins and the fifth seed. With that, we were one horrible play calling sequence at the goal line in Cincinnati from eleven wins and the fourth seed. You can sit here and argue that we would have gone no where in the playoffs. I will buy that due to our coordinators not being able to out think top NFL minds, but I think we win against the Bucs and we already know that we match up well with the Lions. So, who the hell knows what could have happened.

The team has talent on defense, but Hurtt was in over his head and never should have been promoted. He is the reason the organization moved on from Carroll and the main reason why we hired the best young defensive mind in the league. The two main problems on defense from effort standpoint have both been released, and we will be better for it. Bringing Williams in helped infuse the defense, it was not his fault that the coordinator should never have been in the position.

 

[onanygivensunday]

If we were going to let him go to another team, we would have put a franchise tag on him.

IIRC, the Jets tagged him twice... so tagging him again is/was not an option.

 

[Chevy]

What makes you think he's a unicorn? Is he in better shape than Kam when he signed his last contract? Or Thomas? Or Sherm?

Safeties tend have a short shelf life, just like RBs.

I will backpedal on my thought a bit. Let's give Williams 3 elite years, and 2-4 good years after that. So a Calais Campbell type of long productive career.

 

[olyfan63]

Some need a reality check regarding last seasons team. As miserable as the defense was, we were one missed field goal away from double digit wins and the fifth seed. With that, we were one horrible play calling sequence at the goal line in Cincinnati from eleven wins and the fourth seed. You can sit here and argue that we would have gone no where in the playoffs. I will buy that due to our coordinators not being able to out think top NFL minds, but I think we win against the Bucs and we already know that we match up well with the Lions. So, who the hell knows what could have happened.

The team has talent on defense, but Hurtt was in over his head and never should have been promoted. He is the reason the organization moved on from Carroll and the main reason why we hired the best young defensive mind in the league. The two main problems on defense from effort standpoint have both been released, and we will be better for it. Bringing Williams in helped infuse the defense, it was not his fault that the coordinator should never have been in the position.

I basically agree with nearly everything you say, with the Bill Parcells caveat that "you are what your record says you are". The Pittsburgh game at home showed that.

When the team actually WAS "one player away" in 2012-2013-2014, a swing and a miss (or a hit) on a difference-maker player was OK. However, the roster hasn't been close since the 2015 season. This year, there's the ugly reality of how Baltimore destroyed and embarrassed the Hawks in that 37-3 game, and the way the Niners made the Hawks their biatch the last couple years. We were in no way "close". Sure, we had some nice late-game comebacks/wins against the Lions, Browns, Commanders, Eagles, Titans, and Cards, but the whole thing was held together with duct tape and baling twine. Pete's misplaced loyalty to underperforming coordinators led to the end as well.

My point is that the Williams trade, in isolation, might turn out OK if we sign him and he performs, but season-after-season of these things leads to poverty in draft choices and salary cap hell, not getting good players on rookie deals, and paying big bucks for free agents who massively underperform their contracts about 50% of the time. Injuries, whatever, but it's a losing game in the long term. The irony is that what Pete & the staff excelled at, IMO, was coaching up young talent to get them to overperform their contract. Going away from his own winning model, and Pete's delusional belief in the flawed, overpaid, underperforming roster he'd built, is why he had to go. Maybe it was really JS who should get the credit for building the 2012-2014 roster and Pete didn't screw it up until after 2 Super Bowl trips. If so, may JS now repeat that success.

 

[olyfan63]

Safeties tend have a short shelf life, just like RBs.

I will backpedal on my thought a bit. Let's give Williams 3 elite years, and 2-4 good years after that. So a Calais Campbell type of long productive career.

We can hope, but it's just a guess. Calais Campbell would be a good comp to hope for. IIRC Cliff Avril had a neck injury that ended his career. Fingers crossed that we sign Williams and he beasts for us for at least 3 years.

 

[Parallax]

We can hope, but it's just a guess. Calais Campbell would be a good comp to hope for. IIRC Cliff Avril had a neck injury that ended his career. Fingers crossed that we sign Williams and he beasts for us for at least 3 years.

It's always risky to sign a 30 year old world-class athlete. I'd much rather have the draft picks. Then we could see who's available in free agency but I'd want to stay away from flashy high priced guys and wait for the third round of the process to try to get value. This also might be a good year to sign some UDFAs, as there will be diamonds in the rough. Guys who will need playing time and great coaching to develop.

 

[oldhawkfan]

I shied away from this thread until I could make an informed decision. Now that the Seahawks have resigned him for 3(!) years I will say it was a good trade. The team should get 3 more years out of a top DT at the prime of his career.

Had that 2nd round pick not have been traded for him, we would be in a waiting position to see who they could’ve drafted with that pick. I’m fairly certain there will be those that come draft day will say, “ see we could’ve had player X instead of a guy at the end of his career.”

I was good with the trade when it happened because the interior of that defensive line needed serious help. I was also a bit nervous that he might walk at the end of the year and then it definitely would’ve been a wasted trade.

In the end, Leonard Williams is a Seahawk for most likely the next 3 years. Considering the average NFL career is 3.7 years, a person would have to be ok with that kind of a career length for a 2nd round pick. Because Williams is already one of the top players at his position, it’s nothing but a win on this trade.

 

[Rat]

Had that 2nd round pick not have been traded for him, we would be in a waiting position to see who they could’ve drafted with that pick. I’m fairly certain there will be those that come draft day will say, “ see we could’ve had player X instead of a guy at the end of his career.”

Was there some rule that would have prevented us from making a run at him in free agency without that trade?

 

[Parallax]

Was there some rule that would have prevented us from making a run at him in free agency without that trade?

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[flv2]

Was there some rule that would have prevented us from making a run at him in free agency without that trade?

No, but you wouldn't have gotten a $14M, my valuation then), or $21.5M, (Seahawks valuation now), player in a position of need for half a season at $1M. It's not a win because it was resources thrown at a season that didn't result in playoff games - and resources used in 2023 are resources unavailable now.

 

[oldhawkfan]

Was there some rule that would have prevented us from making a run at him in free agency without that trade?

 

[Parallax]

No, but you wouldn't have gotten a $14M, my valuation then), or $21.5M, (Seahawks valuation now), player in a position of need for half a season at $1M. It's not a win because it was resources thrown at a season that didn't result in playoff games - and resources used in 2023 are resources unavailable now.

That and $5 will get ya a cup of overpriced coffee at Starbucks.

 

[12forlife]

LW is a great get for the Hawks while in a transition. He is the Michael Bennett of this new Regime, he can play all up and down the line! This young team needs to have some Vet leadership on & off the field, which I believe LW offers in spades. Wish they could have kept him under the $20 mil per, but with the cap increase I thought he may have been over $20mil. I believe this is a solid contract for a solid player. Feel way better about this deal, then ido with Jones's, gonna be interesting how MM uses him in his scheme? Is he a JAG, or can he be the next Madubuike in MM system?

 

[Chevy]

Was there some rule that would have prevented us from making a run at him in free agency without that trade?

Sure we could have made a run at him, but odds would have been against us at signing him. Trading for him, let Williams be part of the Seahawks team, building bonds with players on the team and the GM, getting to enjoy the Pacific Northwest for a year. That one year gave us a huge inside track to signing Williams and for a reasonable contract.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He was excellent last year but it wasn't remotely enough because our defense was miserable. Only an eternal optimist like Pete could have convinced himself we were one piece away. I was thoroughly sick by then of his delusional hyper-optimism. Just give me the truth, man. Pete "piss on my leg and tell me it's raining" Carroll wasn't capable of that sort of honesty, with himself or anyone else.

You can manifest results thought impossible by pure belief. That's what the LOB was. That's what Russell's career was. That's what our comebacks were. That's what Geno's resurgence was.

It can work. Sometimes it doesn't.

If there's a single person I'd like to be the last in the world to give up reckless belief in the Seattle Seahawks, it'd be our head coach.