Penny-Carson or Carson-Penny?

[UK_Seahawk]

Rashaad Penny is the best and most talented RB you have. He is certainly the fastest with the most breakaway speed. He just got set back by the hand injury a lot. Plus your system is a little different than what he was used to so he was thinking too much in the beginning when he was a brand new NFL player. Now he has had some time in and is more experienced. With the hand now healed and more experience and time you can see he is getting better and better. You can see the speed and explosion on the outside. That's pretty much Penny and what he does.

He just had some setbacks and the injury. But trust me from living here in San Diego and having season tickets to the San Diego State Aztecs he was an absolute star. Very fast speed and good vision. It's just unfortunate he had the hand injury and the new system was a little different to him from what he was used to.

IMO he has too much athletic talent to not succeed long term. He is a legitimate 4.4 speed guy at 220 lbs. That's very good. He also let his weight get a little out of control in the off season which was not an issue for him at San Diego State BTW.

I just think he is growing and maturing at lot. I still believe in Penny A LOT. I believe he will succeed for you big time long term. The guys who were on him early were unrealistic IMO. You can't write off a player at 1/2 of a season in his rookie year. That's just crazy.

Obviously he is starting to get it more and you can see from his most recent game he can play.

12 carries......108 yards......1 TD......9.0 yard average.

He really is capable of that. Believe me I have seen a lot of him. The injury set him back some. He's healthy now and feeling better and knows your system better now too. Plus he lost some weight and got fast again like he is. He just needs to stay healthy and keep that weight in check. Which was not really a problem at San Diego State BTW (the weight). I'm kind of surprised to hear those stories. IMO the hand break was a big setback to him. He looked really tentative to me early in the year with that injured hand. Now with the hand healthy he looks more like himself and confident.

It's not unusual BTW in NFL history for a RB or anybody to better in the 2nd year. Rashaad got hurt early, had a new system to learn and had some weight gain in the off season (which was never a problem for him and San Diego State and actually surprises me). But I think he has turned the corner.

You can see he can do it. 108 yards on 12 carries is really a lot and a TD. Plus a 9.0 yard average. He is totally capable of that. That's pretty much Rashaad for you. I look forward to Rashaad bursting out and I think he will continue to do well for you. I do hope so and he is one of my favorites all time from San Diego State. I hope he busts out and really continues to do well. It's nice to see him have a bust out game. You can now see YES HE CAN DO IT. I always knew he could. I've seen him for a long time and believed in him big time when others doubted him.

I've seen you carry a torch for him on webzone. I hope the use of the word bust above is a typo

 

[toffee]

It's not unusual BTW in NFL history for a RB or anybody to better in the 2nd year. Rashaad got hurt early, had a new system to learn and had some weight gain in the off season (which was never a problem for him and San Diego State and actually surprises me).

He also wasn't giving his best effort, according to the coaches.

But to hear Carroll describe it, Penny wasn't applying himself the way he needed to. Carroll was asked what he meant with several postgame comments about how Seattle's coaches had been sternly pushing Penny and "challenging him to get right."

Link

That actually sounded possible, Penny got drafted, paid, and assumed that he will start and be the one. Reality came in during when Carson was superb before pre-season .... but still think that he could just turn it on came real game time. After the first three regular season games, it must have been shocking that he couldn't turn it on with those extra 20 lbs or so, humbled by a 7th rounder.

Looked like Penny's awakening was game 3, real effort or "training camp" started after game 3 and his "pre-season" was game 5-8, .... so he was very different by game 9. Penny just finished his off season, months late.

Hope he learn the lesson.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He really is capable of that. Believe me I have seen a lot of him. The injury set him back some. He's healthy now and feeling better and knows your system better now too. Plus he lost some weight and got fast again like he is. He just needs to stay healthy and keep that weight in check. Which was not really a problem at San Diego State BTW (the weight). I'm kind of surprised to hear those stories. IMO the hand break was a big setback to him. He looked really tentative to me early in the year with that injured hand. Now with the hand healthy he looks more like himself and confident.

Confidence, that's really what's been holding Penny back IMO..........and we saw Sunday what he looks like when he's confident and hitting the holes fast. Looks like an entirely different back then what we've been seeing so far this year.

As I've said before, this isn't an either/or question. It's both.

If we're going to be the pound the rock running 40+ times a game offense that Pete wants? Then we need this stable of backs to rotate in and out. Carson and Penny compliment each other perfectly going forward. No need to fixate on who's first or #1. We need both.

 

[Seymour]

He really is capable of that. Believe me I have seen a lot of him. The injury set him back some. He's healthy now and feeling better and knows your system better now too. Plus he lost some weight and got fast again like he is. He just needs to stay healthy and keep that weight in check. Which was not really a problem at San Diego State BTW (the weight). I'm kind of surprised to hear those stories. IMO the hand break was a big setback to him. He looked really tentative to me early in the year with that injured hand. Now with the hand healthy he looks more like himself and confident.

Confidence, that's really what's been holding Penny back IMO..........and we saw Sunday what he looks like when he's confident and hitting the holes fast. Looks like an entirely different back then what we've been seeing so far this year.

As I've said before, this isn't an either/or question. It's both.

If we're going to be the pound the rock running 40+ times a game offense that Pete wants? Then we need this stable of backs to rotate in and out. Carson and Penny compliment each other perfectly going forward. No need to fixate on who's first or #1. We need both.

Confidence? No...I think not. More like work ethic which includes his weight (yeah.....that again)

Carroll was asked what he meant with several postgame comments about how Seattle's coaches had been sternly pushing Penny and "challenging him to get right."

"Just to continue to push in all areas, to tax himself in all aspects of it," Carroll said. "Ball has come real easy to him in his career, as he showed [during] such a fantastic senior year and all of that. He just needed to keep working, and that meant the way he practiced and taking advantage of every rep and watching how he eats and how he takes care of himself and how he works in the offseason and the off-field program. Just everything. Just helping him grow. He's got a great attitude about it. He's been wonderful to work with and all that, but we're just showing him the way, and he benefited from it."

 

[MontanaHawk05]

It's not unusual BTW in NFL history for a RB or anybody to better in the 2nd year. Rashaad got hurt early, had a new system to learn and had some weight gain in the off season (which was never a problem for him and San Diego State and actually surprises me).

He also wasn't giving his best effort, according to the coaches.

But to hear Carroll describe it, Penny wasn't applying himself the way he needed to. Carroll was asked what he meant with several postgame comments about how Seattle's coaches had been sternly pushing Penny and "challenging him to get right."

Link

That actually sounded possible, Penny got drafted, paid, and assumed that he will start and be the one. Reality came in during when Carson was superb before pre-season .... but still think that he could just turn it on came real game time. After the first three regular season games, it must have been shocking that he couldn't turn it on with those extra 20 lbs or so, humbled by a 7th rounder.

Looked like Penny's awakening was game 3, real effort or "training camp" started after game 3 and his "pre-season" was game 5-8, .... so he was very different by game 9. Penny just finished his off season, months late.

Hope he learn the lesson.

If that's true, it shows he's got a lot of mental resilience. That's good.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He really is capable of that. Believe me I have seen a lot of him. The injury set him back some. He's healthy now and feeling better and knows your system better now too. Plus he lost some weight and got fast again like he is. He just needs to stay healthy and keep that weight in check. Which was not really a problem at San Diego State BTW (the weight). I'm kind of surprised to hear those stories. IMO the hand break was a big setback to him. He looked really tentative to me early in the year with that injured hand. Now with the hand healthy he looks more like himself and confident.

Confidence, that's really what's been holding Penny back IMO..........and we saw Sunday what he looks like when he's confident and hitting the holes fast. Looks like an entirely different back then what we've been seeing so far this year.

As I've said before, this isn't an either/or question. It's both.

If we're going to be the pound the rock running 40+ times a game offense that Pete wants? Then we need this stable of backs to rotate in and out. Carson and Penny compliment each other perfectly going forward. No need to fixate on who's first or #1. We need both.

Confidence? No...I think not. More like work ethic which includes his weight (yeah.....that again)

Carroll was asked what he meant with several postgame comments about how Seattle's coaches had been sternly pushing Penny and "challenging him to get right."

"Just to continue to push in all areas, to tax himself in all aspects of it," Carroll said. "Ball has come real easy to him in his career, as he showed [during] such a fantastic senior year and all of that. He just needed to keep working, and that meant the way he practiced and taking advantage of every rep and watching how he eats and how he takes care of himself and how he works in the offseason and the off-field program. Just everything. Just helping him grow. He's got a great attitude about it. He's been wonderful to work with and all that, but we're just showing him the way, and he benefited from it."

They go hand in hand........and I read this article yesterday. The staff has been pushing Penny harder.

But confidence matters for any athlete, especially a RB that had his confidence wavering after he was drafted in the first round and thought he'd be our bell cow back getting most of the carries.

Before Sunday Penny was running tentatively and not hitting the hole and cutting with that confident burst we all saw on tape. So sorry, I stick by confidence. It matters.

 

[Seymour]

Yes they go hand in hand, but the root cause of the lack of confidence was he was in poor shape and had poor work habits then the injury. If he falls back into that trap, he'll be back to square 1.
When you feel great, are in top shape and proper weight the confidence will build. Without that you become another China food eating machine. I'll bet his jaw dropped the moment he laid eyes on Carson. :shock:

 

[Scorpion05]

I still say Carson + Penny is the closest you'll ever get to Kamara + Ingram. I can't believe people are in love with Davis. He's good as a fill in guy, but he should be the #3 long term. Nothing ultra impressive about him, he gets it done but he can't break a game open like Carson and Penny can

 

[scutterhawk]

Parson-Kenny

Ezackary ^

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I still say Carson + Penny is the closest you'll ever get to Kamara + Ingram. I can't believe people are in love with Davis. He's good as a fill in guy, but he should be the #3 long term. Nothing ultra impressive about him, he gets it done but he can't break a game open like Carson and Penny can

Davis to me is a one trick pony.........he has a really good jump cut, then that's about it.

Effort is certainly there, but IMO we've seen all the upside we're going to see with Davis. So unless Carson or Penny is hurt, I don't need to see any series with Davis.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

Right now, I think Penny and Carson should play alternate series and then go with the hot hand. Both should benefit from playing for a full series. If Penny is the workhorse back that I think he can become, he needs a consistent 12-18 carries a game to get into a rhythm at this point in his career. Next year I'd expect Penny to be in the 18-25 carries a game area & Carson to be more of a short yardage, power guy, spelled occasionally by Davis. Penny has all of the tools, he now just needs the opportunity to use them. He has a lot of people to make "eat crow" over his draft position & I'm sure he will.

 

[toffee]

It's not unusual BTW in NFL history for a RB or anybody to better in the 2nd year. Rashaad got hurt early, had a new system to learn and had some weight gain in the off season (which was never a problem for him and San Diego State and actually surprises me).

He also wasn't giving his best effort, according to the coaches.

But to hear Carroll describe it, Penny wasn't applying himself the way he needed to. Carroll was asked what he meant with several postgame comments about how Seattle's coaches had been sternly pushing Penny and "challenging him to get right."

Link

That actually sounded possible, Penny got drafted, paid, and assumed that he will start and be the one. Reality came in during when Carson was superb before pre-season .... but still think that he could just turn it on came real game time. After the first three regular season games, it must have been shocking that he couldn't turn it on with those extra 20 lbs or so, humbled by a 7th rounder.

Looked like Penny's awakening was game 3, real effort or "training camp" started after game 3 and his "pre-season" was game 5-8, .... so he was very different by game 9. Penny just finished his off season, months late.

Hope he learn the lesson.

If that's true, it shows he's got a lot of mental resilience. That's good.

I really felt that Penny came to OTA with savior mentality, that's gone now ... thanks to Carson! He basically waste months to get out of first entitlement, then the denial after gotten beat by Carson and Davis. Pete's statement basically said Penny didn't know what to or not to eat, didn't do or not do what will help him to compete in NFL. We all saw that part of it, a fat and slow rookie. Pete also said that the coaching staff PUSHED Penny, so it didn't just come naturally, but I think the pushing is yielding results. What we are seeing a part self awakening, part shaming (by Pete), part pushing (by coaches), and part natural talent shining though.

Penny could be a talented but a happy turn lucky guy. Luckily he reacted positively to coaching and pushing, but he didn't have Carson's do or die spirit which probably resulting from Carson's years of struggling.

Go Penny.

 

[hawk45]

I still say Carson + Penny is the closest you'll ever get to Kamara + Ingram. I can't believe people are in love with Davis. He's good as a fill in guy, but he should be the #3 long term. Nothing ultra impressive about him, he gets it done but he can't break a game open like Carson and Penny can

Davis to me is a one trick pony.........he has a really good jump cut, then that's about it.

Effort is certainly there, but IMO we've seen all the upside we're going to see with Davis. So unless Carson or Penny is hurt, I don't need to see any series with Davis.

Davis can get out of trouble when there is penetration better than Penny thus far and keep a drive on schedule, and Davis seems just as if not more dangerous on screens.

If our OL is blowing holes open? Penny all day for six points. If it takes a jump-cut to get 3 instead of 0? Davis. I am not in love with Davis; he isn't going to pop for 30 even if he gets a big hole, but he is going to keep the drive on schedule a bit better IMO. Penny looked much better sticking his nose up in there last game, but that's a WIP.

Obviously Carson superior to both at gashing defenses for 5-7 whenever he touches the ball.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I still say Carson + Penny is the closest you'll ever get to Kamara + Ingram. I can't believe people are in love with Davis. He's good as a fill in guy, but he should be the #3 long term. Nothing ultra impressive about him, he gets it done but he can't break a game open like Carson and Penny can

Davis to me is a one trick pony.........he has a really good jump cut, then that's about it.

Effort is certainly there, but IMO we've seen all the upside we're going to see with Davis. So unless Carson or Penny is hurt, I don't need to see any series with Davis.

Davis can get out of trouble when there is penetration better than Penny thus far and keep a drive on schedule, and Davis seems just as if not more dangerous on screens.

If our OL is blowing holes open? Penny all day for six points. If it takes a jump-cut to get 3 instead of 0? Davis. I am not in love with Davis; he isn't going to pop for 30 even if he gets a big hole, but he is going to keep the drive on schedule a bit better IMO. Penny looked much better sticking his nose up in there last game, but that's a WIP.

Obviously Carson superior to both at gashing defenses for 5-7 whenever he touches the ball.

All true, but to me Davis and Carson are the same style of back.......and Penny is a better compliment back to Carson then Davis is.

Carson's the punishing big hitter, and Penny is the quicker speed back that can break big runs and even take it to the house. Davis is just a lesser version of Carson, so no reason to play him if Carson's healthy.

 

[justafan]

I love the fact we have the talent to have this discussion. I am good either way.

 

[toffee]

If Penny can keep it up for 2-3 games, Davis could be traded .... for a 3rd? or a 4th? That pick could benefit the defense big times. Davis isn't a star but he has proven that he is adequate for teams needed a RB that is ready to contribute. Or he could pack on a few pounds and be our FB. Having Davis and Penny or McKissic could be intriguing.

 

[Seymour]

No trades please! We still have an unreliable 2nd year back and a rookie that has yet to prove his value.

 

[chris98251]

We have a great problem right now, but 7 games left regular season, trading someone on a one year deal like Davis will net us nothing and you know sure as hell once we do something will happen.

 

[West TX Hawk]

I echo the no trades sentiment. We need all 3 of them. And while I have been hard on Penny and drafting a RB in the 1st, I was as pleased as anyone seeing his outstanding game and talent shine Sunday. That being said, it’s ridiculous for many here to advocate because of 1 good game, he should supplant Carson and get 18-25 carries with Carson limited to a handful of carries. Until he’s on IR, Carson is still the man and has earned it.

Now what I would like to see some is creativity getting them both out there simultaneously. Remember the old “pro set” formation in the 70s and 80s? 2 halfbacks both 5 yards back behind either the guards or tackles. Basic, but options aplenty. Or in goal line situations perhaps a throwback Power I/Offset Triple I with all 3 of them. Old school maybe but when this is your strength use all your weapons. We could have a number of read option or even triple option plays too.

 

[jammerhawk]

Carson-Penny until Penny proves himself more or Carson gets injured.


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