Geno Is a Bridge, Nothing More

WarHawks

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Best breakdown on Penix I've ever seen. I would think the faults are fixable, but maybe not?
 

Hipflexor

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I get the logic of having Geno in place as the starter for 2024 as they have turned over 99% of the coaching staff, and they need stability at QB right now. But make no mistake he is a bridge, nothing more.

The standards for QB have really fallen off around here. Wilson was god awful in 2021 (supposedly), and Geno has been much better (also supposedly.)

Taking Geno's two best stretches of play as pointed out by John Schneider is where things get interesting.

Geno-2022 First 9 Starts:

W/L: 6-3

Yards: 2199
Comp: 73.4%
TDs: 15
INTs: 4
Passer Rating: 107.4

Geno-2023 Last 7 Starts (Missed 2 games due to injury):

W/L: 3-4 (The defense was trash.)

Yards: 1822
Comp: 64.23%
TDs: 11
INTs: 2
Passer Rating: 98.0


Combined:

16 Games
365/528
4021 yards
26 TDs
6 INTs
Passer Rating: 103.1


For context:

Russell Wison's last season in Seattle (2021):

13 Games
259/400
3113 yards
25 TDs
6 INTs
Passer Rating: 103.1

Pretty crazy! Russell Wilson's washed up season in Seattle where he took a lot of heat playing with a busted right throwing hand, looks eerily similar to Geno's best two stretches in 2022 and 2023 stitched together.

I point this out to emphasize that they desperately need a franchise QB, and Geno is merely the bridge.

I stumbled into these numbers purely on accident, as I thought about what it would look like if Geno's 1st half of '22 and 2nd half of '23 were combined, thinking they would be MVP numbers. Instead to my surprise, they are just washed up Wilson numbers from 2021.

Where Geno stacks up against all 32 starters, currently.

Ranking all 32 QBs for the upcoming 2024 season:


01 Patrick Mahomes
02 Josh Allen
03 Joe Burrow
04 Justin Herbert
05 Lamar Jackson

06 Jordan Love
07 C.J. Stroud
08 Matt Stafford
09 Jared Goff
10 Aaron Rodgers

11 Kirk Cousins
12 Baker Mayfield
13 Trevor Lawrence
14 Brock Purdy
15 Jalen Hurts

16 Caleb Williams
17 Kyler Murray
18 Gardner Minshew
19 Joe Flacco
20 Russell Wilson

21 Dak Prescott
22 Geno Smith
23 Derek Carr
24 Tua Turnthaballova
25 Jayden Daniels

26 Will Levis
27 Anthony Richardson
28 Justin Fields
29 Michael Penix Jr.
30 Drake May

31 Bo Nix
32 Bryce Young

Looking at stats and not what’s actually going on on the field isn’t the best way to evaluate.

Geno has been the better quarterback and it isn’t even close when you watch the tape. Russell still leaves the pocket too early, misses guys open. Make no mistake Sean Payton is an ass, but he’s right to want to move on from Russ.

Geno was dealing with awful spacing by the routes, a lack of creativity over the middle, and an offense that couldn’t and wouldn’t run the ball. And even then could navigate the pocket like it was second nature.

Is geno viewed as a bridge? Yeah probably I don’t know. But he’s a whole helluva lot better than you’re giving him credit for.

Btw Sanjay Lal is the worst WRs coach ever. Go watch the stuff from when he was coaching the Jags WRs, and then look at last season. Not cowinkydink these receivers ended up in the same area a lot of the time.
 

JayhawkMike

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Looking at stats and not what’s actually going on on the field isn’t the best way to evaluate.

Geno has been the better quarterback and it isn’t even close when you watch the tape. Russell still leaves the pocket too early, misses guys open. Make no mistake Sean Payton is an ass, but he’s right to want to move on from Russ.

Geno was dealing with awful spacing by the routes, a lack of creativity over the middle, and an offense that couldn’t and wouldn’t run the ball. And even then could navigate the pocket like it was second nature.

Is geno viewed as a bridge? Yeah probably I don’t know. But he’s a whole helluva lot better than you’re giving him credit for.

Btw Sanjay Lal is the worst WRs coach ever. Go watch the stuff from when he was coaching the Jags WRs, and then look at last season. Not cowinkydink these receivers ended up in the same area a lot of the time.
To paraphrase your post: IF only Geno had better players/coaching/etc he'd be a better player than Wilson but we will ignore Wilson's players/coaching/etc issues at the same time.

Anyone saying Geno is better than RW (who I seriously do Not like) is not someone really worth arguing with.
 

DarkVictory23

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To paraphrase your post: IF only Geno had better players/coaching/etc he'd be a better player than Wilson but we will ignore Wilson's players/coaching/etc issues at the same time.

Anyone saying Geno is better than RW (who I seriously do Not like) is not someone really worth arguing with.
Except Geno IS better than Russ now.

And you should really learn how to paraphrase better because to paraphrase is not to 'change the nature of the point that was made in order to create a different argument that I can more easily dismiss'.

Russ was only better in ONE 'advanced' passing metric, which was passer rating. That's great and all because passer rating only measures essentially completions, yards, TDs, INTs. But QBs also get sacked, make meaningless completions that get yards but not first downs, etc., etc.

Russ was bottom half in the league in Success Rate, QBR, ANY/A, and EPA. Geno was top half in all of those. Geno is a top half QB right now. Russ is a bottom half. And that's only including this year which was 'down' year for Geno relative to last and a 'bounce back' season for Russ.

If we're trying to get a better picture and look at since Geno took over, it's not even particularly close.
 

Titus Pullo

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Geno sucked for 9 years and has the season of his life..... Which still was mediocre and produced an 9-8 season.

Then, he has another less than mediocre year and a few injuries..... This produced an 8-7 season.

Not to mention, he is now two years older.

This season should be worse than last.

The one bright spot..... He only has to learn a college-level offensive scheme.
 

Hipflexor

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Geno sucked for 9 years and has the season of his life..... Which still was mediocre and produced an 9-8 season.

Then, he has another less than mediocre year and a few injuries..... This produced an 8-7 season.

Not to mention, he is now two years older.

This season should be worse than last.

The one bright spot..... He only has to learn a college-level offensive scheme.

Winning seasons where his offense had limited time on the field because the defense was schematically flawed and somehow no one on the defense wanted to tackle.

Geno was far from the problem and in some cases was a plus.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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Looking at stats and not what’s actually going on on the field isn’t the best way to evaluate.

Geno has been the better quarterback and it isn’t even close when you watch the tape. Russell still leaves the pocket too early, misses guys open. Make no mistake Sean Payton is an ass, but he’s right to want to move on from Russ.

Geno was dealing with awful spacing by the routes, a lack of creativity over the middle, and an offense that couldn’t and wouldn’t run the ball. And even then could navigate the pocket like it was second nature.

Is geno viewed as a bridge? Yeah probably I don’t know. But he’s a whole helluva lot better than you’re giving him credit for.

Btw Sanjay Lal is the worst WRs coach ever. Go watch the stuff from when he was coaching the Jags WRs, and then look at last season. Not cowinkydink these receivers ended up in the same area a lot of the time.
That Kool aid must be awesome because I'm sure as hell don't know what you're watching. But it's definitely not Geno. For godsake it took a Drew Lock who is basically a younger Geno exactly 2 seconds to figure out JSN existed stupid Geno never figured it out until he was where he should always be....THE BENCH. I'm so angry he's getting about 5x the money then he EVER deserved and so tired of JS not trying to draft a real quarterback he actually likes. Suck it up because to possibly get an elite quarterback, it may cost see Kansas City.

The deal is if you like a quarterback stop ******* around and pull the trigger because elite quarterbacks ie Patrick or Josh don't need complete juggernaut teams like Purdy or even the Baltimore guy.

If you have a shot at a top tier quarterback do it despite the price the really good ones only need two really top tier targets and then build and pay an actual OL and a defense and watch McVay and Shanahan get embarrassed. Geno isn't the guy for that and never will be pure definition of 9-8/8-9. It's a quarterback driven league deal with it.

Hell a healthy Aaron Rodgers with that defense would definitely give Kansas City a big run for their money.
 
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Maelstrom787

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That Kool aid must be awesome because I'm sure as hell don't know what you're watching. But it's definitely not Geno. For godsake it took a Drew Lock who is basically a younger Geno exactly 2 seconds to figure out JSN existed stupid Geno never figured it out until he was where he should always be....THE BENCH. I'm so angry he's getting about 5x the money then he EVER deserved and so tired of JS not trying to draft a real quarterback he actually likes. Suck it up because to possibly get an elite quarterback, it may cost see Kansas City.

The deal is if you like a quarterback stop ******* around and pull the trigger because elite quarterbacks ie Patrick or Josh don't need complete juggernaut teams like Purdy or even the Baltimore guy.

If you have a shot at a top tier quarterback do it despite the price the really good ones only need two really top tier targets and then build and pay an actual OL and a defense and watch McVay and Shanahan get embarrassed. Geno isn't the guy for that and never will be pure definition of 9-8/8-9. It's a quarterback driven league deal with it.

Hell a healthy Aaron Rodgers with that defense would definitely give Kansas City a big run for their money.
That's an outright falsehood about the JSN point. JSN's games with Drew Lock did not result in an increased amount of targets, yardage, or other production.

In fact, JSN had better weeks in the week BEFORE Lock started and the week AFTER Lock started.

(targets -- catches -- yards -- YPC)

Screenshot 20240304 091136 Chrome

We all have agendas, but why do some of you refuse to look up supporting data for your crusades? It's ridiculous. How can you be comfortable not holding yourself accountable to presenting TRUE information?

Not only that, but you know what'll sometimes happen? I'll see information that disproves my original contention and evolve it based on evidence! You know, what everyone should do because that's what learning is!

It seems to me like you might be the one out of touch with the reality of what you're watching, because the JSN comment didn't even pass the eye test at the time. It is pure, unfiltered confirmation bias. Who is actually drinking the (let's just assume generously spiked) Kool-Aid here?
 

DarkVictory23

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Geno sucked for 9 years and has the season of his life..... Which still was mediocre and produced an 9-8 season.

Then, he has another less than mediocre year and a few injuries..... This produced an 8-7 season.

Not to mention, he is now two years older.

This season should be worse than last.

The one bright spot..... He only has to learn a college-level offensive scheme.
You really don't know what the word 'mediocre' means.


That Kool aid must be awesome because I'm sure as hell don't know what you're watching. But it's definitely not Geno. For godsake it took a Drew Lock who is basically a younger Geno exactly 2 seconds to figure out JSN existed stupid Geno never figured it out until he was where he should always be....THE BENCH. I'm so angry he's getting about 5x the money then he EVER deserved and so tired of JS not trying to draft a real quarterback he actually likes. Suck it up because to possibly get an elite quarterback, it may cost see Kansas City.

The deal is if you like a quarterback stop ******* around and pull the trigger because elite quarterbacks ie Patrick or Josh don't need complete juggernaut teams like Purdy or even the Baltimore guy.

If you have a shot at a top tier quarterback do it despite the price the really good ones only need two really top tier targets and then build and pay an actual OL and a defense and watch McVay and Shanahan get embarrassed. Geno isn't the guy for that and never will be pure definition of 9-8/8-9. It's a quarterback driven league deal with it.

Hell a healthy Aaron Rodgers with that defense would definitely give Kansas City a big run for their money.
I'm assuming he is watching Seahawks games and you are--apparently--watching AI generated YouTube videos of Geno Smith burning down a retirement home or something?

Otherwise, the vitriol you are displaying here seems... a bit much? And also, if you had been watching the Seahawks games, you'd know that Geno threw JSN 7 balls in his first game that he actually started (Week 6 vs. Arizona, including a TD pass in the first quarter) which is the same amount Drew Lock threw his way a full seven weeks later vs. San Fran... which was one of the only other games JSN started this season.

Against Dallas, Geno targeted JSN 11 times, which is the same amount that Drew did in his two starts combined. Geno threw at Smith-Njigba 6 times all the way back in week 2!


EDIT: Looks like Maelstrom beat me to this.
 

Maelstrom787

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You really don't know what the word 'mediocre' means.



I'm assuming he is watching Seahawks games and you are--apparently--watching AI generated YouTube videos of Geno Smith burning down a retirement home or something?

Otherwise, the vitriol you are displaying here seems... a bit much? And also, if you had been watching the Seahawks games, you'd know that Geno threw JSN 7 balls in his first game that he actually started (Week 6 vs. Arizona, including a TD pass in the first quarter) which is the same amount Drew Lock threw his way a full seven weeks later vs. San Fran... which was one of the only other games JSN started this season.

Against Dallas, Geno targeted JSN 11 times, which is the same amount that Drew did in his two starts combined. Geno threw at Smith-Njigba 6 times all the way back in week 2!


EDIT: Looks like Maelstrom beat me to this.
It was a photo finish, mate.
 

JayhawkMike

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Agendas don't need facts.
Thats what I think of all the Genoites.
“he’s better than RW” yeah Bs
”he could win us some playoff games IF ONLY…
-the O Line was much better
-the play calling was better
-they tailored plays to him

its everbodies fault but his basically

he is not a winner. He is a waste of time.
 

flv2

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Thats what I think of all the Genoites.
“he’s better than RW” yeah Bs
”he could win us some playoff games IF ONLY…
-the O Line was much better
-the play calling was better
-they tailored plays to him

its everbodies fault but his basically

he is not a winner. He is a waste of time.
That's an opinion, and it's fine. Everyone wants to get from A, (not winning the Super Bowl), to B, (winning the Super Bowl). It's how do you get there and is being 3-14 rather than 9-8 worth it when in A if it might get you to B quicker or more often. The problem with discarding Smith in February is that you might not end up with a top 40 QB or a decent developmental project when the Draft is over. No-one wants to be the 2023 Falcons.
 

Hipflexor

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Thats what I think of all the Genoites.
“he’s better than RW” yeah Bs
”he could win us some playoff games IF ONLY…
-the O Line was much better
-the play calling was better
-they tailored plays to him

its everbodies fault but his basically

he is not a winner. He is a waste of time.

No but we know who Geno is. No one is saying Geno is an all pro caliber player. He needs the supporting cast to work, and shouldn’t have 90% of the game on shoulders due to the fact no one could run block or K9 ignored blatant lanes for chunk yards.

If you can upgrade you do it, but are we sure the upgrade is available to us in this draft? It probably isn’t. Geno is the best option, and it’s not a bad option at all.

Idk what football you can watch the last two seasons and say Geno wasn’t an upgrade on Russell Wilson.
 

Maelstrom787

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Thats what I think of all the Genoites.
“he’s better than RW” yeah Bs
”he could win us some playoff games IF ONLY…
-the O Line was much better
-the play calling was better
-they tailored plays to him

its everbodies fault but his basically

he is not a winner. He is a waste of time.
Well, none of what you said is a fact. Those are opinions.

That's... kind of the point.
 

WarHawks

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The offense wasn't the problem last year.
Except when we didn't score more points than the other team. Last time I checked, that's kind of the goal. 1td/200 yds +/- of offense per game simply is not good enough.
 

Maelstrom787

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Except when we didn't score more points than the other team. Last time I checked, that's kind of the goal. 1td/200 yds +/- of offense per game simply is not good enough.
The rushing attack was the worse performer when compared to the passing attack, especially in the red zone.

I get that you're trying to circle this back to Geno, but you've got to step over units that failed FAR more egregiously with complete indifference before you can even get to Geno.

Football is a complementary game. Each unit feeds into the success of a separate unit.

When I see a quarterback who generally performed well in most fundamental senses (eyes downfield, moving nicely in the pocket, can hit all levels, general sense of accuracy), and I contrast that with a defense who could not stop anything whatsoever and a run game that simply wasn't used (and could not do ANYTHING in the redzone), I tend to remove most of the overall culpability from him. That just seems like the correct thing to do if we're after the truth here.

No quarterback exists alone. No quarterback succeeds without a functional team around him.

The obvious conclusion for me is that Geno, after leading the team to winning records despite no other unit on the team putting forth winning-record-level performances, would be capable of even more if the team hadn't been outright broken and downtrodden everywhere else. This isn't fluffing, it's just basic fairness.

And the retort to this will be something about the overall team. Guaranteed. Something about he's not a winner, or how 1TD isn't enough as if there aren't 25 other players on the roster contributing to the goal of scoring.

No one wants to get into isolated performance, because it isn't good for the "Geno is the culpable party for all our woes because it's easier to have a single scapegoat" angle.
 
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