Separation of Top End WRs.

[Fresno Hawk]

Our Wr's are not the problem. The problem is that Geno does not play like every play is his last play. He just doesn't play with the killer instincts. Now Baker Mayfield dosent have as much talent as Geno, not the fastest or biggest. But Baker plays like every play matters. I just dont see that with Geno. Now weather it's coaching or culture i don't know.

 

[hawker84]

It's literally everyone else that's the problem for the Geno stans. So, I guess all we need is a new OL, new receivers, a better running game, a better coordinator, and better home fans and Geno will be awesome in three years for his age 38 season, where like three QBs ever have led a team to anything.

Nope just a better OLine. Championship teams are built from the trenches out. Football 101. We could use a te, and a real #1 reciever to be honest, because DK is damn sure not it....

 

[hawker84]

Awesome post. Very refreshing to see someone actually put in the time to research. Most just read their tic toc or Twitter feed and parrot the narrative without doing an ounce of research. Nice job bud.

 

[Seahawker]

 

[chrispy]

This thread is missing the OC/play calling variable. An OC's job is to create plays that result in separation. DK has to have it because he catches with his body and won't highpoint. But he's fast enough there are lots of ways to give him space. JSN can get open if the play is right

I think of the Rams...their #1and #2 WRs are little, quick guys that win with space, not on 50/50 balls...and they win with them. Lockett and JSN can be (approach) Nacua and Cupp with DK stretching the field and Fant getting some contested balls. Grubb needs to watch McVays Offense for some ideas.

Geno could be better. WR room could be better. Frankly, one won't fix the other. But, in my opinion, both positions are plenty good to win...especially some of the games dropped this season.

 

[SonicHawk]

This thread is missing the OC/play calling variable. An OC's job is to create plays that result in separation. DK has to have it because he catches with his body and won't highpoint. But he's fast enough there are lots of ways to give him space. JSN can get open if the play is right

I think of the Rams...their #1and #2 WRs are little, quick guys that win with space, not on 50/50 balls...and they win with them. Lockett and JSN can be (approach) Nacua and Cupp with DK stretching the field and Fant getting some contested balls. Grubb needs to watch McVays Offense for some ideas.

Geno could be better. WR room could be better. Frankly, one won't fix the other. But, in my opinion, both positions are plenty good to win...especially some of the games dropped this season.

There are plenty of variables this data doesn't account for.

But volumetrically and even percentage wise our receivers are thrown to when they are open at an equal or higher pace than the two other examples.

What this data implies (and like I said, it doesn't account for any additional variables like scheme or qb performance), is that our receivers are less successful in tight windows than average. Maybe that's Geno, maybe that's the WR. But considering how well it lines up with some perceptions (aka, JJ and Mike Evans are really really good and Darnold/Baker are average QBs), I thought it was relevant data.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I'll also add that our WR group is wildly overrated. It's above average, but there's a significant gap between ours and the top groups in the league. DK being really good at his good stuff and really bad at his bad stuff + Tyler is very limiting. Replacing Tyler with a legit WR, I think would put this group on pretty even footing with where most Seahawks fans "think" our WR group

This thread is missing the OC/play calling variable. An OC's job is to create plays that result in separation. DK has to have it because he catches with his body and won't highpoint. But he's fast enough there are lots of ways to give him space. JSN can get open if the play is right

I think of the Rams...their #1and #2 WRs are little, quick guys that win with space, not on 50/50 balls...and they win with them. Lockett and JSN can be (approach) Nacua and Cupp with DK stretching the field and Fant getting some contested balls. Grubb needs to watch McVays Offense for some ideas.

Geno could be better. WR room could be better. Frankly, one won't fix the other. But, in my opinion, both positions are plenty good to win...especially some of the games dropped this season.

Nakua and Cupp aren't little or quick. They're both 6'2"+ and slow for WR

 

[SonicHawk]

Overrated only because we got a lot of hype for having the best receiving group. DK and JSN are not bad at all.

 

[toffee]

Overrated only because we got a lot of hype for having the best receiving group. DK and JSN are not bad at all.

With DK and JSN, shall we complement them with a procession receiver or a Jimmy Graham like TE? or, lol, both? I think a La Porta would be nice for our QB, assuming that it's still Geno.

DK enjoys a catch rate around 59%,

LaPorta 69.7% this season and 71.7% last season, after teams made adjustments to counter him.

 

[chrispy]

There are plenty of variables this data doesn't account for.

But volumetrically and even percentage wise our receivers are thrown to when they are open at an equal or higher pace than the two other examples.

What this data implies (and like I said, it doesn't account for any additional variables like scheme or qb performance), is that our receivers are less successful in tight windows than average. Maybe that's Geno, maybe that's the WR. But considering how well it lines up with some perceptions (aka, JJ and Mike Evans are really really good and Darnold/Baker are average QBs), I thought it was relevant data.

Yes, I agree with the premise and conclusion. My post wasn't meant to disagree, but I think scheme/play-design can (should) improve or diminish a WRs success. Create space if it's needed. Create speed if needed. Create 1-on1 contested catches if that's a winning situation. Play design should pre-determine space or tight-window and use personnel as such knowing where that player will be successful.

 

[Smellyman]

This thread is missing the OC/play calling variable. An OC's job is to create plays that result in separation. DK has to have it because he catches with his body and won't highpoint. But he's fast enough there are lots of ways to give him space. JSN can get open if the play is right

I think of the Rams...their #1and #2 WRs are little, quick guys that win with space, not on 50/50 balls...and they win with them. Lockett and JSN can be (approach) Nacua and Cupp with DK stretching the field and Fant getting some contested balls. Grubb needs to watch McVays Offense for some ideas.

Geno could be better. WR room could be better. Frankly, one won't fix the other. But, in my opinion, both positions are plenty good to win...especially some of the games dropped this season.

Kupp and Nakua are definitely not little at 6'2 and strong. Mcvay is also really good at scheming open receivers.

 

[12AngryHawks]

View attachment 68885

Wow, gotta feel a bit sorry for the Bears. A franchise that's over 100 years old, and their leading receiver only has a little over 5,000 yards.

 

[Ozzy]

I still can’t get passed the idea that’s”separation has more to do with the QB than the receiver. Pittsburgh’s receivers separation is drastically different with Wilson than it is Fields. That tells me Geno plays a major role in this too.

But I still think the strongest argument is again what a guy like Evan’s does vs DK. It’s a massive plus for the QB

 

[Ozzy]

Overrated only because we got a lot of hype for having the best receiving group. DK and JSN are not bad at all.

I saw a scout account put us in the top 7 as WR group league wide. Might be a little high but they’re a good group for sure.

 

[hawkfan68]

This thread is missing the OC/play calling variable. An OC's job is to create plays that result in separation. DK has to have it because he catches with his body and won't highpoint. But he's fast enough there are lots of ways to give him space. JSN can get open if the play is right

I think of the Rams...their #1and #2 WRs are little, quick guys that win with space, not on 50/50 balls...and they win with them. Lockett and JSN can be (approach) Nacua and Cupp with DK stretching the field and Fant getting some contested balls. Grubb needs to watch McVays Offense for some ideas.

Geno could be better. WR room could be better. Frankly, one won't fix the other. But, in my opinion, both positions are plenty good to win...especially some of the games dropped this season.

I don't see where DK is catching balls with his body rather than this hands. I see exactly the opposite. He actually uses his hands a lot to make catches. Almost textbook catches.

DK Metcalf Makes Unbelievable One-Handed Catch At Practice

Geno Smith Finds DK Metcalf For 30 Yards Highlight - 2024 Week 6 Seahawks vs. 49ers

As for highpointing the ball...he could be a lot better given his size. That I agree with but it's not because he doesn't use his hands to catch the ball.

 

[chrispy]

I don't see where DK is catching balls with his body rather than this hands. I see exactly the opposite. He actually uses his hands a lot to make catches. Almost textbook catches.

DK Metcalf Makes Unbelievable One-Handed Catch At Practice

Geno Smith Finds DK Metcalf For 30 Yards Highlight - 2024 Week 6 Seahawks vs. 49ers

As for highpointing the ball...he could be a lot better given his size. That I agree with but it's not because he doesn't use his hands to catch the ball.

I don't have any data except my memory and eyes... and I admit that could very well be flawed. I do know that his best catches are made with his hands and end up on Youtube. Those catches where he doesn't come back to the ball and catch it high with his hands but instead waits for it to fall to his chest and it's defended successfully, don't end up on youtube... but do result in something being throw at my TV. To be fair, he probably catches with his hands more than I remember. However, he does also do all the things he's accused of here on .net more than a true #1 (round off routes, fail to come back to the ball, catch with his body allowing passes to be batted). I'm not hating. I like DK. The team is better with him. I just wish he'd consistently do the things he doesn't do. When he does those things, he's worth every penny he's paid, probably more. When he doesn't, he's not worth the current contract. When he does them sometimes, he's worth a lot but not #1 money. We all know where everyone stands on DK so I'll bow out from here on the topic to save the thread's original analysis.

 

[IndyHawk]

Our Wr's are not the problem. The problem is that Geno does not play like every play is his last play. He just doesn't play with the killer instincts. Now Baker Mayfield dosent have as much talent as Geno, not the fastest or biggest. But Baker plays like every play matters. I just dont see that with Geno. Now weather it's coaching or culture i don't know.

Baker has a better line with a much better OC.
Those 2 things alone make him look better despite himself.
He still is the same Cleveland Baker with less don't be fooled.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Baker's aggressive play has nothing to do with his oline. He's throwing to Old mike Evans. He's always been an aggressive QB since college. Even in Cleveland he was aggressive. And everyone that plays in Cleveland sucks to be honest.

 

[Ozzy]

Baker has a better line with a much better OC.
Those 2 things alone make him look better despite himself.
He still is the same Cleveland Baker with less don't be fooled.

If you compare Baker and Geno’s stats the past couple of years he’s better. He even had one really good year in Cleveland too and that place was terrible.

 

[SonicHawk]

If you compare Baker and Geno’s stats the past couple of years he’s better. He even had one really good year in Cleveland too and that place was terrible.

Baker and Geno have almost identical stats the past two years outside of touchdowns.

Completion rate (67.6 vs 67.9), pass yards/attempt (7.4 vs 7.5), pass yards/game (252.2 vs 249.1), interceptions (24 vs 25), win % (55%), sacks (79), batted passes (31 vs 32), bad throw % (12.5 vs 13) -- etc.

Don't get me wrong, touchdowns matter -- but it doesn't make sense for soo much of this important stuff to lineup perfectly but having one result not.

I'm not trying to bring down Baker either, he's played exceptionally well.