Schneider or McDonald- catalyst for draft philosophy change?

seabowl · Sunday at 10:01 AM

Two things happened in this draft that we had not seen in either a long time or ever in the JS era:

Draft a QB
Draft an interior OL

The question is was it JS who on his own changed his ways or was it MM who stepped in to say this is what needs to be done?

ccla · Sunday at 10:28 AM

How about a combination of the two?
I know people want to assign blame and praise to one person (I will admit I do so as well) but it is a partnership no? The GM hss yo work to bring the coach vision to life. So if I have yo pick I would say it is MM as he is the change in the equation.

oldhawkfan · Sunday at 10:33 AM

Maybe need played a big part? Even though a bit of draft capital was used on the o line last year, it was the biggest need coming into this draft. QB? We are seeing a total reset at the QB position for 2025. Need played the largest role in these draft decisions.

Shane Falco · Sunday at 10:36 AM

What about the draft itself? It was an odd one imo. I can't even remember seeing so many good players with injury histories / concerns and I mean in the entire draft. The lack of blue chippers. Maybe that's why we went heavy on Athletic traits, I mean more so than usual and across the board.

kidhawk · Sunday at 10:52 AM

Any good GM is going to work with the coaching staff to get the players for their systems. If John was just going to draft whatever he wanted it wouldn’t work. When Pete was here he said they agreed on the vast majority of draft picks and I would have to assume the same is happening now. A good organization doesn’t just get talented players and force them into playing in systems that don’t fit their abilities. They try to find the players who can play well under the coaches you have.

seabowl · Sunday at 10:57 AM

I understand the replies regarding a joint decision on the picks however, John had clearly stated that he did not like using high draft picks on interior lineman. I think part of the decision was also pressure from upper management as the fan base and media have grown inpatient with how many years the line has suffered.

Wsumatt1982 · Sunday at 11:04 AM

It’s just a matter of them being on the same page. They had limited time together last year and an argument can be made PC overrode JS before that.

CalgaryFan05 · Sunday at 11:12 AM

Wsumatt1982 said:
It’s just a matter of them being on the same page. They had limited time together last year and an argument can be made PC overrode JS before that.

This.

onanygivensunday · Sunday at 11:16 AM

seabowl said:
I think part of the decision was also pressure from upper management as the fan base and media have grown inpatient with how many years the line has suffered.

I agree. I'm guessing that Jody made that known to John and Mike... something along the lines of...

"John, our fans are clamoring for improved Oline play and regardless of your personal opinion, let's show them that we're listening."

Jville · Sunday at 11:18 AM

I'm speculating that embracing a growth in house analytics and GPS data is having the biggest affect on year to year changes. IIRC, Jody Allen advocated that direction a couple of years ago. The head coach change came a year later. John has mentioned, in passing, that combine measurables are no longer all that relevant because of in season GPS data. What remains relevant at the combine are the interviews and applied psychology.

It's like a door opened and the organization's talent and performance evaluation stepped into a new room .... a new era.

ccla · Sunday at 11:40 AM

seabowl said:
John had clearly stated that he did not like using high draft picks on interior lineman.

Yeah but that might also be a fruit of the kind of QB you have. I do not want to turn this thread into a bash Russ one, but if you have a one read and then scramble QB, what is the use of having a top flight line? They cannot protect because they do not know where he is. This, to some extent, spilled over to Geno (although for some reason he was extremely reticent to use his legs - and that, in part, was the reason of the frustration with Geno). Now that we have a more traditional QB it makes sense to protect him. It is the difference in a mobile QB that runs ONLY after going through all if his reads (pass rush allowing) and a QB that runs after his first read is not available.

Natethegreat · Sunday at 12:55 PM

oldhawkfan said:
Maybe need played a big part? Even though a bit of draft capital was used on the o line last year, it was the biggest need coming into this draft. QB? We are seeing a total reset at the QB position for 2025. Need played the largest role in these draft decisions.

This right here.

seabowl · Sunday at 1:20 PM

oldhawkfan said:
Maybe need played a big part? Even though a bit of draft capital was used on the o line last year, it was the biggest need coming into this draft. QB? We are seeing a total reset at the QB position for 2025. Need played the largest role in these draft decisions.

I don’t disagree but there is a big difference between drafting a tackle and guard with their first round pick. There has been a need at, at least one guard position for a long time.

pmedic920 · Sunday at 2:00 PM

seabowl said:
Two things happened in this draft that we had not seen in either a long time or ever in the JS era:

Draft a QB
Draft an interior OL

The question is was it JS who on his own changed his ways or was it MM who stepped in to say this is what needs to be done?

Did you see/watch the wrap up press conference?

I did, and I truly believe that it’s a team effort.

Funny how football is that way even off the field.

Just look at the Cowboys if you don’t believe me, they are a perfect example of what happens when one guy tries to be “thee guy”.

Smellyman · Sunday at 3:39 PM

don't underestimate no Pete being here.

Jeanty pick was an obvious choice and a home run. the rest of the Raiders draft was balls. Could've been all Spytek though, no way of knowing Pete's influence.

BigMeach · Sunday at 3:46 PM

When possibly the best left guard of all time tells you to draft Zabel, you listen. As for the change, I'd imagine it's a combination of the two, JS and MM.

Added Edit:
It's always going to be JS or JS and others. JS has full control now, so it's hard to say "this is all MM" etc.

Maelstrom787 · Sunday at 3:53 PM

An answer that many people probably don't want to consider:

The board.

The board fell in a way that allowed JS to do both in a natural, BPA-style manner.

toffee · Sunday at 3:57 PM

seabowl said:
Two things happened in this draft that we had not seen in either a long time or ever in the JS era:

Draft a QB
Draft an interior OL

The question is was it JS who on his own changed his ways or was it MM who stepped in to say this is what needs to be done?

We on .NET take credit for drafting an interior OL. We, sorry you people, bitched and moaned loud and often enough, the noise reached our lovely Jody, and the rest is history. Lazy narrative or not. I have stood steadfast in my support of the Schneider doctrine.

As for QB, it's on Schneider, he wanted to be that QB guru.

James in PA · Sunday at 4:22 PM

John was trying to trade down at 18, but (thankfully) he wasn't able to find a trade partner. So, I doubt he felt a lot of pressure from anyone. He may have not loved the "value" there, but Zabel was the right move with Donovan Jackson going a few picks later. We would have lost Zabel, even with a slight trade back.

Sperrydogg · Sunday at 4:23 PM

Third option:
Pete

Schneider or McDonald- catalyst for draft philosophy change?

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