NFL.com's ranking of QBs puts Geno at #12

[NoGain]

I'd take CJ Stroud over Geno in a heartbeat, and even roll the dice on Drake Maye over Geno. Like others have mentioned, there's more to it than just stats, like age and future potential.

 

[Ozzy]

I'd take CJ Stroud over Geno in a heartbeat, and even roll the dice on Drake Maye over Geno. Like others have mentioned, there's more to it than just stats, like age and future potential.

Drake Maye played pretty well down the stretch with a much worse situation than Geno as a rookie. There isn’t a team in the league who would take Geno over Maye although that’s not all that fair to Geno because of their age. But Maye like the 5-6 rookie QBs all showed a ton of promise this year which is crazy.

 

[Chapow]

I never made the argument that Nix was better than Geno. He was playing better of the two over the last third of the season, but I don't think having Geno higher isn't a reasonable opinion.

It's interesting though how many of those things you mentioned got so much better once they replaced Russ with Nix. It wasn't like Payton just got there this season.

You talk about Denver having the better rushing offense, but Nix WAS that rusher. They had three running backs get more than 11 carries on the season: Javonte Williams (139), Jaleel McLaughlin (113), and Audric Estime (76). They combined for 328 carries for 1319 yards, which is barely four yards per carry. Their leading rusher only averaged 3.7. Those three running backs combined for three rushes of more than 20 yards the entire season, one a piece, and had just seven TDs. Seattle's top three running backs had shockingly similar carries and yards: 319 carries for 1314 yards (their leading rushing ALSO averaged 3.7, crazy), but 15 TDs and nine of those 20+ yard runs. Neither QB was getting the kind of production handing off the ball that would allow them to be less of a focus from the opposing defense. It helped the Broncos tremendously that Nix was a willing and effective runner.

If you tried calling the Broncos defense better than Seattle's in any context other than something that makes Geno look good, you'd get torn apart on here. I think we can call it a strength for both teams.

One advantage Geno did have over Nix was easier division opponents. The Broncos also had to play the AFC North, but the Seahawks had the NFC North, so that wasn't a great draw for either. Broncos got the NFC South which is mediocre, Seahawks got the AFC East which is one great team, one average team (who was starting Skylar Thompson the week we got them), and two awful teams.

Again, not necessarily calling Nix better than Geno (yet), but I'm not buying that things were so much easier for Nix. After a difficult adjustment over the first month, Nix was legitimately great the rest of the season, and not just for a rookie.

I disagree. I think Sean Payton plus a top 5 Oline absolutely makes it significantly easier for a QB than Ryan Grubb plus a bottom 5 Oline.

Feel free to tear me apart for thinking the 3rd best defense by ppg is better than the 12th best defense by ppg. Both good? Yep. Both strengths? Yep. Is 3rd best better than 12th best? Yep.

Out of curiosity, do you disagree with this?
"Just my opinion, but I think it's awfully likely that Nix would have had a pretty rough year if he had been in Geno's situation, and I think Geno would have had a much better year than he did if he had been in Bo's situation."

 

[Chapow]

I'd take CJ Stroud over Geno in a heartbeat, and even roll the dice on Drake Maye over Geno. Like others have mentioned, there's more to it than just stats, like age and future potential.

There are quite a few guys I'd take over Geno, but the Seahawks aren't in a position to get any of those guys.

Having a good young QB on a rookie contract is a massive advantage in the NFL.

 

[Kamcussionator]

Geno is the perfect backup, but he will never win a bowl.

Is Geno worse than Trent Dilfer? Nick Foles? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Did Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Jayden Daniels, Jordan Love, Goff or Purdy even make it to the Super bowl this year?

I would suggest to you that: while a better player is always desirable, if one is not available it would be best to hang on to what you have and try to improve in areas where there are better players available.

We can certainly win a Super bowl with Geno. And I don't think we're that far away from being scary good. If our defense plays top 5-10 like they've shown to be capable, and our run game elevates with improved line play (because our backfield is loaded!) we could have a top 5-10 offense without a 5,000 yard/40TD passer. Case in point, both the Bills and Eagles had more rushing TDs than receiving this past year.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Is Geno worse than Trent Dilfer? Nick Foles? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Did Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Jayden Daniels, Jordan Love, Goff or Purdy even make it to the Super bowl this year?

I would suggest to you that: while a better player is always desirable, if one is not available it would be best to hang on to what you have and try to improve in areas where there are better players available.

We can certainly win a Super bowl with Geno. And I don't think we're that far away from being scary good. If our defense plays top 5-10 like they've shown to be capable, and our run game elevates with improved line play (because our backfield is loaded!) we could have a top 5-10 offense without a 5,000 yard/40TD passer. Case in point, both the Bills and Eagles had more rushing TDs than receiving this past year.

He never has won a playoff game but gosh darn if we just improved everything else and build up his self confidence - that little choo choo train could final;ly make it up that hill :rollseyes

How about taking the money from his sorry ass contract and using it to actually improve the team and build up a promising talent on a rookie deal. "But but but we are picking 18 so we cant get anyone" yeah well get Milroe and call it good.

 

[Kamcussionator]

Ah yes, the change of offense excuse is getting built in. You might want to look at how many OC's Jalen Hurts has had.

Hurts had three iirc. The second was an internal hire though, so it was the same offense. But yes, this year he was in a new offense, threw about 1,000 yards less and had fewer TDs than previous years, but the Eagles still won by virtue of an elite run game.

Hopefully Kubiak will install an elite run game this year for us and we can enjoy similar results.

 

[Kamcussionator]

He never has won a playoff game but gosh darn if we just improved everything else and build up his self confidence - that little choo choo train could final;ly make it up that hill :rollseyes

How about taking the money from his sorry ass contract and using it to actually improve the team and build up a promising talent on a rookie deal. "But but but we are picking 18 so we cant get anyone" yeah well get Milroe and call it good.

Geno's confidence is fine. We just need a run game (or to at least USE our run game) and we could have a top 10 offense.

Milroe ended Alabama's dynasty with a loaded roster. His game doesn't translate to the SEC, why would you think it will translate to the NFL?

 

[Chapow]

Some people take this shit way too seriously, and it shows.

Yes. Everyone who has a differing opinion is a coward.

That's his schtick now. Make up wildly hyperbolic strawmen arguments and then try to act like he's the reasonable one by disagreeing with the outlandish nonsense he just made up.

It's quite the spectacle.

 

[ruffENrowdy]

Geno's confidence is fine. We just need a run game (or to at least USE our run game) and we could have a top 10 offense.

Milroe ended Alabama's dynasty with a loaded roster. His game doesn't translate to the SEC, why would you think it will translate to the NFL?

Geno has confidence until he messes up, then it turns into a crap shoot lol. How people don't see that, it makes zero sense to me. He throws a pick and he is legit deer in the headlights.

 

[Chapow]

Hopefully Kubiak will install an elite run game this year for us and we can enjoy similar results.

Even a league average run game would be a big improvement over the bottom 5 run game we had last season.

 

[Rat]

I disagree. I think Sean Payton plus a top 5 Oline absolutely makes it significantly easier for a QB than Ryan Grubb plus a bottom 5 Oline.

Feel free to tear me apart for thinking the 3rd best defense by ppg is better than the 12th best defense by ppg. Both good? Yep. Both strengths? Yep. Is 3rd best better than 12th best? Yep.

Out of curiosity, do you disagree with this?
"Just my opinion, but I think it's awfully likely that Nix would have had a pretty rough year if he had been in Geno's situation, and I think Geno would have had a much better year than he did if he had been in Bo's situation."

It's basically the same OL they had last year (literally four of the same five starters, difference was Luke Wattenberg at center after Lloyd Cushenberry signed a considerable deal with the Titans in free agency). Some QBs have a way of making their OL look way worse than it is, particularly guys like Russ who still hold onto the ball for forever despite clearly losing their previous elusiveness and ability to extend plays. And that "top 5 OL" didn't seem to be any more effective run blocking than ours was. They handed off the same amount, RBs had the same productivity, Nix was just more willing to take off.

And as for the "3rd best defense by ppg", it helped a bit that they got to close the year against Carson Wentz and the Chiefs backups, who scored 0. 80% of the Chiefs carries went to an undrafted rookie out of Ball State. Their most productive receiver was something called Nikki Romigio, who had not caught a single pass in his NFL career prior to this game. The Broncos had given up more than 30 in three of their previous four games prior: 30 to the Bengals, 34 to the Chargers, and 32 to the Browns. Then they gave up another 31 in their playoff game. The Broncos D played well throughout the season, but the gap between them and the Seahawks is nowhere near as prodigious as you're trying to make it sound.

I don't think there would have been a huge difference if either switched teams, honestly. Somebody who plays the way Nix does would be really nice in Seattle.

 

[projectorfreak]

Yes, and not one person arguing that Geno is the best option for another year are “hyping him up.” The way folks put words in people’s mouths on here is laughable.

What did you men by that ? lol jk

 

[Chapow]

It's basically the same OL they had last year (literally four of the same five starters, difference was Luke Wattenberg at center after Lloyd Cushenberry signed a considerable deal with the Titans in free agency). Some QBs have a way of making their OL look way worse than it is, particularly guys like Russ who still hold onto the ball for forever despite clearly losing their previous elusiveness and ability to extend plays. And that "top 5 OL" didn't seem to be any more effective run blocking than ours was. They handed off the same amount, RBs had the same productivity, Nix was just more willing to take off.

Do you genuinely think that the Broncos OLine is not significantly better than our OLine? Do you genuinely think that Sean Payton running the offense isn't significantly better than Ryan Grubb running the offense?

And as for the "3rd best defense by ppg", it helped a bit that they got to close the year against Carson Wentz and the Chiefs backups, who scored 0. 80% of the Chiefs carries went to an undrafted rookie out of Ball State. Their most productive receiver was something called Nikki Romigio, who had not caught a single pass in his NFL career prior to this game. The Broncos had given up more than 30 in three of their previous four games prior: 30 to the Bengals, 34 to the Chargers, and 32 to the Browns. Then they gave up another 31 in their playoff game. The Broncos D played well throughout the season, but the gap between them and the Seahawks is nowhere near as prodigious as you're trying to make it sound.

While the Broncos D was closing out the season shutting out the Chiefs backups, our D closed out the season by giving up 25 points to the Rams backups. Our D played well in 1 game in the last 4, and that was against a dreadful Bears team. But outside of that gave up 30 to the Packers, 27 to the Vikings, and 25 to the Rams backups. Kinda sounds like both D's fell off a bit over the last 4 weeks, but I think it's pretty clear that over the course of the season, the Broncos had the better defense.

I don't think there would have been a huge difference if either switched teams, honestly. Somebody who plays the way Nix does would be really nice in Seattle.

Fair enough. Hard to believe, but ok, if you say so.

 

[projectorfreak]

Grubb did him no favors in the red zone
I kept yelling at the tv , chip a te and run him out and when he finally did it worked and we got a td but most of the time it was banging our heads against the wall
You don't have much success when the D knows whats coming and the tells for them were prevalent
It almost never seemed like he had a hot read or a lifeboat to get out of trouble and i think when he doesn't believe in the plays his deer in the headlight look comes on strong
A 3rd and 2 run up the middle doesn't always work against teams with really good front 7s but we did it a bunch so hoping for misdirection a hell of a lot more
How many plays Last year did you say well i didn't see that coming
The jsn tunnel screen was a killer the 1st 4 or 5 times but i believe he made it predictable real quick but that was one of the very few i remember that made say , hey now , that's how you do it.
Quite frustrating
No set up for the uppercut, just jab jab and not much else

 

[Chapow]

And I'll add, I do think Nix is good young QB and I'd love to have him and that rookie contract on the Seahawks.

But damn, I'm having a really hard time wrapping my around the opinion that a very bad play caller with a very bad OLine vs a very good play caller with a very good OLine isn't a huge difference. That just seems wild to me.

 

[Chapow]

Grubb did him no favors in the red zone
I kept yelling at the tv , chip a te and run him out and when he finally did it worked and we got a td but most of the time it was banging our heads against the wall
You don't have much success when the D knows whats coming and the tells for them were prevalent
It almost never seemed like he had a hot read or a lifeboat to get out of trouble and i think when he doesn't believe in the plays his deer in the headlight look comes on strong
A 3rd and 2 run up the middle doesn't always work against teams with really good front 7s but we did it a bunch so hoping for misdirection a hell of a lot more
How many plays Last year did you say well i didn't see that coming
The jsn tunnel screen was a killer the 1st 4 or 5 times but i believe he made it predictable real quick but that was one of the very few i remember that made say , hey now , that's how you do it.
Quite frustrating
No set up for the uppercut, just jab jab and not much else

It got so bad that it started to feel like a miracle if they were able to convert on 3rd or 4th and very short, and by very short I mean 1 or 2. The play calling and OLine play was just laughably bad the vast majority of the season.

 

[Rat]

Do you genuinely think that the Broncos OLine is not significantly better than our OLine? Do you genuinely think that Sean Payton running the offense isn't significantly better than Ryan Grubb running the offense?

I never made the argument that the Broncos OL wasn't better. I was pointing out that it got a LOT better with the same personnel and coaching, but with Nix in at QB.

Kinda sounds like both D's fell off a bit over the last 4 weeks, but I think it's pretty clear that over the course of the season, the Broncos had the better defense.

There wasn't really THAT much of a difference that it should have resulted in a stark difference in QB play. Both guys had above average defenses that helped with ball control throughout the season. Both had some late struggles too. The Broncos defense did improve a lot this season. You know what probably helped? The offense not constantly stalling out.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Is Geno worse than Trent Dilfer? Nick Foles? Joe Flacco? Eli Manning? Did Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Jayden Daniels, Jordan Love, Goff or Purdy even make it to the Super bowl this year?

I would suggest to you that: while a better player is always desirable, if one is not available it would be best to hang on to what you have and try to improve in areas where there are better players available.

We can certainly win a Super bowl with Geno. And I don't think we're that far away from being scary good. If our defense plays top 5-10 like they've shown to be capable, and our run game elevates with improved line play (because our backfield is loaded!) we could have a top 5-10 offense without a 5,000 yard/40TD passer. Case in point, both the Bills and Eagles had more rushing TDs than receiving this past year.

Okay, let us talk about those rushing TDs.

You do realize that Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts contributed quite a bit to the rushing totals, right? Since 2021, Jalen Hurts has contributed over 10+ TDs in the ground game. In addition to that this year he rushed for 630 yards and 14 TDs. That would have made Jalen Hurts total TD count 32.

Josh Allen also had 12 TDs on the ground, which brings his total up to 40. In addition to that he also contributed 531 yards rushing.

So, while yes, both of those teams did have more rushing TDs than passing, it's disingenuous to just put that on the rushing game and offensive line. Jalen Hurts, and Allen both are great at improvisation and making things out of nothing with their athletic abilities. This is where our guy severely lacks. He has the athletic ability, speed and agility to do what Hurts and Allen does, he just is not great when the play breaks down. He doesn't make use of all of the tools at his disposal. He's shown a few flashes of improv, but Geno is a guy that is committed to the pocket.

It's understandable, he came from an era where the pocket passer was king, but still, he is not very good at making things happen. If the play goes wrong, this is where our guy falls short. We have the inverted version Wilson. A prototypical pocket passer that has a very bad internal clock.

Now, I'm not saying that Geno is bad, in fact as a pure passer he's pretty good. He has some flaws here such as endzone (this has been an issue for two years now). His accuracy is spot on and he can make all of the throws. His instincts and ability to manipulate the pocket are subpar, however. He doesn't move around much, despite his mobility. Even Brady would set up his blockers and move around to buy more time.

Geno to me looks very ridged and what I would describe as wooden. He is textbook a solid QB, but he doesn't really do anything to elevate the offensive line or make plays. He's just a middle of the road QB.

Sure, you could point to Foles, Flacco and Eli Manning, but each one of those guys had historical runs in the playoffs. We *could* win with Geno, but you're gambling on him either going on a crazy playoff run or building a team like the 2015 Broncos that were stacked at every position. Every team usually has blind spots. It's no coincidence that the Super Bowl wins in the 2010, and 2020s were dominated by Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady.

With a Geno Smith character you're essentially gambling on lightning striking twice here. That 2013 team and 2014 Seahawks team were historically good, in addition they had a really good QB. Our HC was also a visionary at that era that completely changed the NFL paradigm.

MacDonald is good, but Pete in the early 2010s was truly far ahead of his time with the usage of mobile QBs to augment the running game and the defensive strategy. Geno really only buys us time. If you have to pay him a huge portion of the salary cap all of the sudden he becomes a lot less palatable.

We're only kicking the can down the road. He's not bad, but he's also not really a viable long term solution. John Schneider has really dropped the ball at the QB position.

 

[Natethegreat]

Geno has confidence until he messes up, then it turns into a crap shoot lol. How people don't see that, it makes zero sense to me. He throws a pick and he is legit deer in the headlights.

He gets hit and feels pressure and he starts panicking.