Geno injury

[cymatica]

This one was from last season. Not sure what he was thinking here. He just climbed the pocket into a sack.

49ers D-Line Swarms Geno Smith for a Sack on Third-and-Goal

Didn't look like he had anyone open and the pocket was collapsing

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Big if true.

Of course, it's not actually true.

On third down this year, with more than 2.5 seconds in the pocket (I.E. with time to actually move vs. instant pocket collapse), Geno has gotten sacked on 15.8% of dropbacks. Matt Stafford 21.7%.

Matt Stafford is MORE likely to get sacked in those situations.

Even when you consider 'all third downs' and not just ones with time, Stafford is STILL more likely to get sacked.

You know who else gets sacked at higher rate on third down than Geno Smith?

Jared Goff, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, CJ Stroud, Justin Herbert, and Jalen Hurts.

Drive killers. No one else to blame. Why are these guys so bad at making decisions?

Geno isn't as good as ANY of those QBs. And not even in the same stratosphere as Mahomes or Burrow. I'd take ANY of those 6 before Geno. Easy choice. Shoot, Stafford is absolutely better.

 

[OrangeGravy]

So you’re rooting against the Seahawks post Geno. That actually makes sense based on your posting history.

That's what you and others are essentially advocating for and you don't even know it. I'm not rooting for it. It will however, be serendipitous

 

[Ozzy]

No we’re not and that line of reasoning makes zero sense. Your language proves you are tho.

Actually because I’m bored in what world are people rooting for fail if they’re frustrated with his play? We cheer our asses off every time he makes a play. I love his story and what he’s overcome. The more I think about it the worse your take is here. No one what’s Geno to fail, they want him to be better.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Rreplacing Geno with what you think is better lead to failing at a rate higher than we currently are

 

[Sperrydogg]

I guess I am, because one of us (hint: it's me) knows the difference between a team stat and a QB stat.

You are aware that teams can also run the ball on third down, right?

And while the Seahawks are top 10 on converting third down when Geno passes, we are the second worst team in the league when we try to run the ball on third. Hence, why we are 17th overall.

Ha! You noticed that! I just put those stats to see if you were reading it.

 

[Sperrydogg]

It doesn't. You're seeing what you want to see.

I’m not seeing what I want to see. I am seeing what I wish I was seeing but don’t get to see because our qb is geno smith.

 

[Sperrydogg]

I guess I am, because one of us (hint: it's me) knows the difference between a team stat and a QB stat.

You are aware that teams can also run the ball on third down, right?

And while the Seahawks are top 10 on converting third down when Geno passes, we are the second worst team in the league when we try to run the ball on third. Hence, why we are 17th overall.

Honestly I don’t really read everything you say cause your trying to prove your point with numbers that represent a small portion of Geno’s game, but I see Geno with my own two eyes and you and Montanahawk or whatever his name is are too busy making it personal to actually figure out what my opinion is. And I’m sure you’ll appreciate that I’m over it

 

[rigelian]

If you actually want to take the time to watch the All-22 (as you and I have), the fact that Geno's decision making is usually pretty sound on most of these plays stands out like a sore thumb. But that's not what most people want to do (And frankly, they shouldn't. Football isn't that important. Don't waste your life as I have! Save yourself!)


But even still, there has to be some just basic good faith used in these discussions. I mean, look at this:

Geno Smith in the Red Zone, various OCs -2013-2023- 64 TDs to 4 INTs.

Geno Smith in the Red Zone, Ryan Grubb as OC -2024- 9 TDs to 4 INTs.


How completely do you have to have made up your mind in advance as to what the problem is in this instance to look at those two things and go: You know, I'm sure it can't be the first-time OC with no NFL experience whatsoever. It must be the Pro Bowl QB who never had this issue before! He must be the problem!

The reality is that Geno is making the best decisions that are provided to him by his OC's scheme and that's the real problem we have. Geno's already in the top half of the league in QBs in terms of Turnover Worthy Plays (was top 10 last time I saw a full ranking but I don't pay for PFF), success rate (12th), On Target Throw Rate (5th), and Bad Throw Rate (2nd)... you know, the types of stats that are supposed to judge 'decision making'.

If you make Geno the best QB in the league in terms of bad throws instead of just second best, the difference is a total of 3 pass attempts.

Across 14 games.

The idea that we can wring substantial improvement out of this offense just by getting better decision making out of Geno is a fallacy and one I hope Macdonald and Grubb aren't buying into if they are going to not repeat the mistakes they made against the

I’m not trying to say Peyton wasn’t a drop back quarterback. Clearly, I’m saying he commanded the pocket and moved when he needed to. He didn’t stand there tall acting invincible as the pocket enveloped him. You are trying to twist what I’m saying. I’m saying Peyton avoided the rush better than geno does and Peyton was stiff as a board.

Peyton Manning had two things going for him. First he was great at deciphering what the defense was doing and taking advantage of any attempt to blitz him by quickly finding the vacated spot and getting the ball there quickly. Second, he played behind decent offensive lines. However, when faced with a great defense that destroyed his line and a tightly covered his receivers he looked just as vulnerable as any QB in SB 48. Peyton didn't avoid the rush better than Geno.

 

[Sperrydogg]

Peyton Manning had two things going for him. First he was great at deciphering what the defense was doing and taking advantage of any attempt to blitz him by quickly finding the vacated spot and getting the ball there quickly. Second, he played behind decent offensive lines. However, when faced with a great defense that destroyed his line and a tightly covered his receivers he looked just as vulnerable as any QB in SB 48. Peyton didn't avoid the rush better than Geno.

peyton understood the situation and defeated the rush by reading it and moving and manipulating the pocket to have successful plays. Peyton did this much better than Geno for much longer, but Geno is a better athlete and can run away from guys better cause, well, Peyton is obviously slow and awkward, but was far better at avoiding the rush than geno for the vast majority of his career and even in his geriatric years he still ran a nicer option for a touchdown in my earlier post than I think I’ve ever seen from Geno.

 

[rigelian]

No he didn't defeat the rush by moving, he defeated the rush by passing the ball quickly. When he played the Seahawks in SB 48, he didn't evade anything. Evading wasn't really is talent.

 

[Sperrydogg]

No he didn't defeat the rush by moving, he defeated the rush by passing the ball quickly. When he played the Seahawks in SB 48, he didn't evade anything. Evading wasn't really is talent.

I understand what you mean. Just because Peyton didn’t have to move very far doesn’t mean he didn’t move around, I remember him taking his big lunging awkward steps forward into the pocket to deliver a lame duck pass for a first down. He just moved enough to make a play and it helped him be one of the greatest. I see Geno stand tall in the pocket with what looks like escape routes or options and not do anything. And the pocket collapses. I’ve also seen him be decisive in those moments and Make some exciting plays. My issue is the timing of his hesitant moments or panic moments come at the worst times and they happen every game just about as much as his spectacular moments in the middle of the field. I feel like it’s a coin toss if the hawks can win with Geno. Could he win? Yes, will he win, menh, could he lose yep… I will admit I don’t like him as our qb for my reasons, so I pick apart his flaws.

 

[hawkfan68]

It's so bad it's funny at this point. The karmic turn from these fans is gonna doom us with QBs like Lock and Howell for the next 20 years. It's gonna be awesome. If they got their way we'd be entering our Chicago Bears QB purgatory phase

I think the Seahawks are already on the way there with Geno Smith. Geno isn't getting any younger and considering his play in the red zone the past few years, he isn't getting better there either.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Geno is nothing more than a gap quarterback tbh until he can cut down on red zone interceptions that’s all he’ll be known by is a gap QB until we draft Macdonald’s guy

 

[DarkVictory23]

Geno is nothing more than a gap quarterback tbh until he can cut down on red zone interceptions that’s all he’ll be known by is a gap QB until we draft Macdonald’s guy

The issue is though, we need to figure out why the interceptions are happening.

Geno threw 4 red zone interceptions in his entire career up until this season. Even when he was a walking interception machine in his first two seasons, he didn't throw red zone picks like this.

Even now, though, in the red zone, Geno's overall success rate is actually pretty decent... but his red zone interception rate is second from the bottom. So, he's generally making good decisions, but when he does make bad decisions (or bad throws), they are ending up as turnovers.

So, what is going on this year?

Is it bad luck? Sure, seems pretty likely.
Is Geno trying too hard to force something? Wouldn't shock me at all.
Is Grubb struggling to design good plays in the red zone? I think this one's undeniable at this point.

For luck, not much we can do there. Seahawks have had overall bad luck this year, but all you can really do is hope it evens out before the season's over.

For Grubb's play design... well, it seems it's one/two steps forward, followed by one/two steps back every week, but I'll leave that for a different thread.

So, that leads to Geno forcing it. At some level, our entire offense is predicated on that guy making throws. I think it wouldn't hurt Geno to dial it back at some level in the red zone, but then we also need to either A) Be willing to settle for field goals or B) Get our run game actually going. (I thought this is what we were doing after the Jets and Cardinals games, but then we literally had our second pass-happiest game since Week 6, so who knows.)

 

[FrodosFinger]

Geno threw 4 red zone interceptions in his entire career

I agree however he probably hasn’t been in the red zone much up until his career with the Hawks. He’s forcing the ball under pressure and the windows are tighter. Teams employ exotic blitzing which leads to the happy feet. Need to take a sack instead of taking points off the board.

 

[strohmin]

Well before we replace Geno, I really hope we get rid of Grubbs and fix the O-line. Our run game has been atrocious all year. The only time it was good was against the cards and we dominated. The packers had 30 to 32 rushing attempts to like 27 passing attempts while we had like 35 - 40 passing attempts to 16 rushing attempts, 1 of which was Geno and the other Howell. Sam friggin Howell who played less than half the game had 14 passing attempts. what kind of OC draws up a game plan like that. This pass heavy offense is our downfall whether its Geno smith or a no. 1 pick in next years draft. Hell Matt Stafford doesnt even have more passing attempts than rushing attempts.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Grubb

 

[toffee]

This may be the last three games Geno wears the Seahawks uniform, and guys like toffee ought to treasure these swan songs.

Biggest problem with Geno's Seahawks career? He couldn't sell "hope", which led to attendance issue. He wasn't and isn't loved by majority of 12s. With that, ownership would reluctantly trade him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Young