What wrong with Payton?

[SoulfishHawk]

I wonder what his players think of him. He's pretty intense and clearly a control freak. Many coaches are, just seems like a dick

 

[Seahawkfan80]

He took the league by surprise but when they figured out to line the DE's wide and have a spy so he had to run his loop ti do's with limited chance for escape his star started to lose it's luster. Then he became a head case and self absorbed and blind to his limitations. Thanks Ciara....

So he is going to Dallas? LMAO They have clean stars there.

 

[Palmegranite]

Drew ran it just fine but the Saints D went into a decline likely due
to cap numbers after having to pay Brees and others.

Wilson is nowhere near a Drew Brees level of a QB are you kidding?

This is a thread about Sean Payton, and so was my post.
7-9, 7-9, 7-9 record back to back to back. Oh yeah, then after one year another 7-9. Arguably in a weak division.
Not exactly a QB whisperer.

Pete Carroll never had this poor a run, win-loss record-wise in the last decade, so I can't endorse or defend this guy. That's all I'm saying.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I don't like the guy, so I'm probably a basing it more on that. But I just feel like he's overrated.

 

[toffee]

This is a thread about Sean Payton, and so was my post.
7-9, 7-9, 7-9 record back to back to back. Oh yeah, then after one year another 7-9. Arguably in a weak division.
Not exactly a QB whisperer.

Pete Carroll never had this poor a run, win-loss record-wise in the last decade, so I can't endorse or defend this guy. That's all I'm saying.

In my humble opinion, to be a QB whisperer, or QB guru. One needs to have a ability to

1. Identify QB, to pick da one from the rest.
2. Once a QB is picked, design a system to that QB's strength,
3. Amend and add skill sets to that QB,
4. Teach and nurture that QB to your system.
5. Keep that QB's mind on football.

Let's see how Payton match to the above?

 

[RiverDog]

There weren't very many coaches on the market at the time that had the resume close to what Payton had: A Super Bowl winning coach who had mentored a future HOF quarterback. His qualifications were similar to Doug Pederson and Andy Reid when they hit the market a few years back. I was a little surprised when he went to Denver as the rumor was that he was looking for a warm weather location. I fully expected the Chargers to fire Staley last year and bring in Payton to coach up Justin Herbert.

He gives me a negative impression, too. But then again, I haven't followed him or his teams that closely. It wasn't like Harbaugh and the Niners where they were a division rival that we played twice a year.

Overrated? Maybe, maybe not. He has a heck of a task in Denver as right now, they look like a giant dumpster fire.

 

[toffee]

When this pic was taken, Wilson thought his finally will be league MVP with help from his dream coach Payton; Payton was planning how to get rid of Wilson as his plan A. One could be quite sure that Payton knew of Wilson's strength, athleticism and sandlot ball; and weaknesses, inability to learn or execute basic plays. No way Payton viewed Wilson has his long term solution.

First 6 games of the season played out on Payton's script, Wilson sucked and team suffered defeat after defeat. But somehow Wilson made a comeback, which complicated Payton's masterplan. Fully aware of Wilson's fragile psyche, Payton started to insult Wilson regularly and publicly. It worked. Wilson's comeback stopped and he started to suck, again.

Wilson is a weirdo, Payton is not a nice person. IMHO.

 

[xray]

He may have delayed Wilson's HOF consideration until 2053 .

 

[keasley45]

This article is pretty good if you want to know how Sean Payton operates.

Sean Payton demands his QB have an iron grip of his offense. Russell Wilson couldn't, so he'll be out of Denver

We can all talk about how much Wilson is getting paid, but the truth is Wilson likely wouldn’t be starting in Denver next season even if he was making half of his scheduled paycheck.

www.yahoo.com

Pretty much says it all. No way Payton eoukd ever let his playbook get tossed aside for sandlot, or settle for play from the qb position that wasn't at an extremely high IQ level.

 

[keasley45]

When this pic was taken, Wilson thought his finally will be league MVP with help from his dream coach Payton; Payton was planning how to get rid of Wilson as his plan A. One could be quite sure that Payton knew of Wilson's strength, athleticism and sandlot ball; and weaknesses, inability to learn or execute basic plays. No way Payton viewed Wilson has his long term solution.

First 6 games of the season played out on Payton's script, Wilson sucked and team suffered defeat after defeat. But somehow Wilson made a comeback, which complicated Payton's masterplan. Fully aware of Wilson's fragile psyche, Payton started to insult Wilson regularly and publicly. It worked. Wilson's comeback stopped and he started to suck, again.

Wilson is a weirdo, Payton is not a nice person. IMHO.

View attachment 62817

Wilson never made a comeback. People keep on saying that. Yes. He played safe ball, but over that stretch, Denvers D turned the ball over at an incredible rate, giving the offense 16 more possessions than they would have had. And even with that, the Denver offense was anemic and ranked in the bottom 10% of the league in yards per play, with Wilson throwing the vast majority of his passed either behind the lOS or just beyond it on check downs. That's a part of his completions percentage that everybody who points to it overlooks. Payton drew up plays to push the ball. Russ more often than not, took the check down because he couldnt make the read.

65% completion... the vast majority if which were around the LOS.

65% completion... and one of the fewest yards per play in the league.

Payton knew who Russ was before he got here and knew he wasn't a fit. He gave Russ a chance and spoon fed him his offense and Russ never grasped it.

We are talking about a guy who refused to run Waldrons playbook... at all in 2021. Russ ran what he wanted even though it had been proven to no longer work and was never sustainable. He just did what he wanted. Payton wouldn't allow that. Not when his calling card is offense.

He didn't undercut Russ. There was no conspiracy. For Payton, it was just coaching to a predetermined lost cause, because he wasn't going to waste a season for 10/11 of his guys on offense go to waste building bad habits running an off script, improvised hero ball show.

It was predetermined years ago in Seattle when we'd bring in coordinators and the offense would still look mostly the same - Russ running around being THE offense. When you saw the reason why he did it, it was obvious he would never be the guy he thought he was. Not even with the most brilliant offensive mind coaching him. Not with the most dynamic set of plays at his disposal. Russell is Russell.

 

[NoGain]

Sean Payton has acted like a classless p*ick since he arrived in Denver as head coach. There's already multiple examples of this. But it's been clear from the beginning, as the above article articulates, that Sean Payton and RW was a match made in hell. RW would have had to evolve into a completely different QB for this pairing to have succeeded. But it became painfully evident that RW was all but incapable of doing so, and there was evidence of this as early as his last three seasons in Seattle when he refused to adjust his approach and style of play when it became apparent that his deteriorating athleticism/escapability was compromising the style of play that had made him so successful earlier in his career.

Sean Payton's classless attitude and approach towards RW was only matched by RW's seeming obliviousness and/or pigheadedness about the adjustments he needed to make as a QB to remain a viable starting QB in the NFL. It was as if RW couldn't see what any astute observer of the NFL could plainly see, or that he was stubbornly living in some kind of a dream world of magical thinking that he was somehow immune to the realities that were making themselves so clearly apparent.

This relationship was toxic from the very beginning. I was a bit surprised that Payton took the job in Denver in the first place, knowing the mess he was going to have to clean up in order to run the kind of offense that he was accustomed to running. It is a bit of a shame, however, that Payton chose to classlessly and unceremoniously throw just about everybody under the bus in the organization in an effort to realize his own vision and direction for the team moving forward.

One thing seems certain, though. It's all on Payton now. He's going all-in on himself. He's apparently been green-lighted to make the changes he feels he needs to. The only question is how long of a leash of time he'll be granted to sucessfully rebuild the team in his image. As the saying goes, the harder they come, the harder they fall.

 

[uncle fester]

I always thought the fastest way to success in this game was to build a scheme around the players you have, not hammer the players you have into the fool-proof scheme you’re insisting on.

But hey, apparently he’s some sort of offensive genius and coughing up 70 points in one game wasn’t his fault, so what do I know?

 

[LastRideOut]

Sean Payton has acted like a classless p*ick since he arrived in Denver as head coach. There's already multiple examples of this. But it's been clear from the beginning, as the above article articulates, that Sean Payton and RW was a match made in hell. RW would have had to evolve into a completely different QB for this pairing to have succeeded. But it became painfully evident that RW was all but incapable of doing so, and there was evidence of this as early as his last three seasons in Seattle when he refused to adjust his approach and style of play when it became apparent that his deteriorating athleticism/escapability was compromising the style of play that had made him so successful earlier in his career.

Sean Payton's classless attitude and approach towards RW was only matched by RW's seeming obliviousness and/or pigheadedness about the adjustments he needed to make as a QB to remain a viable starting QB in the NFL. It was as if RW couldn't see what any astute observer of the NFL could plainly see, or that he was stubbornly living in some kind of a dream world of magical thinking that he was somehow immune to the realities that were making themselves so clearly apparent.

This relationship was toxic from the very beginning. I was a bit surprised that Payton took the job in Denver in the first place, knowing the mess he was going to have to clean up in order to run the kind of offense that he was accustomed to running. It is a bit of a shame, however, that Payton chose to classlessly and unceremoniously throw just about everybody under the bus in the organization in an effort to realize his own vision and direction for the team moving forward.

One thing seems certain, though. It's all on Payton now. He's going all-in on himself. He's apparently been green-lighted to make the changes he feels he needs to. The only question is how long of a leash of time he'll be granted to sucessfully rebuild the team in his image. As the saying goes, the harder they come, the harder they fall.

Russ isn't owed anything. Why is it that you think Russ is entitled to this or that? He hasn't worked for it. He hasn't put in the work to understand the scheme that Payton wants to run, and because of that, it's been simplified down to a level that Russ can understand, and he still goes off script, and goes sandlot ball which isn't predicable and hard to devise a game plan around.

It's football. It's a gladiator sport. It's not a sport in which everyone sits around in a circle, holds hands, and shares SOB stories.

Russ is way too eager to please, and that's all he does, He's the ultimate cliche' machine. That won't get it done at the QB position. Payton won't put up with it. He wants someone to run the offense in the way it was called for and designed for. Russ isn't it. What is Sean supposed to do? Sit Russ down, hug it out, share Kleenex, blow kisses?

Naw, Russ got his ass benched. He can take it like a man. Problem is, he can't. He goes on twitter, with his stupid likes of tweets about him having better stats than Mahomes. Then posts "God's got me, looking forward to whats next". Well Russ, what's next is supporting the guy in front of you on the depth chart. Asshole.

This is after he got handed around $160 million, on a 250 million contract. He couldn't say something like, I didn't play up to expectations. That's on me. I'll do my best to support the starter (Stidham).

But no, he had to make it about himself with his likes, and bizarre god stuff. Whatever man, just be real for a goddamn New York minute Russ.

 

[NoGain]

Russ isn't owed anything. Why is it that you think Russ is entitled to this or that?

I don't know how you derived this from my post.

 

[LastRideOut]

I don't know how you derived this from my post.

Sean Payton's classless attitude and approach towards RW

How was Sean's approach classless? How else is Sean supposed to approach a QB with a limited skillset? PC got lambasted for coddling Wilson the way he did, and look how that turned out. Wilson's head got big. A list of teams he wanted to be traded to got leaked out by his agent. Wilson approached ownership to get PC fired.

Sean took the right approach. I'd argue he did it way too late. Should have went with Stidham right off the bat in training camp, or after the first couple games.

But he still got f.ucked by Wilson, with the leak about him being approached by the Broncos to waive his guarantee, again leaked by guess who? Wilson's agent.

I'd argue Wilson is the classless one here, with his passive aggressive bullshi.t on twitter, and leaking stuff to the media. That's Wilson, right down to a T. He's what the Italians would call a slippery fuc.k.

So, no, Sean isn't classless. He's doing his job as a NFL coach.

 

[NoGain]

How was Sean's approach classless? How else is Sean supposed to approach a QB with a limited skillset? PC got lambasted for coddling Wilson the way he did, and look how that turned out. Wilson's head got big. A list of teams he wanted to be traded to got leaked out by his agent.

Sean took the right approach. I'd argue he did it way too late. Should have went with Stidham right off the bat in training camp, or after the first couple games.

But he still got f.ucked by Wilson, with the leak about him being approached by the Broncos to waive his guarantee, again leaked by guess who? Wilson's agent.

I'd argue Wilson is the classless one here, with his passive aggressive bullshi.t on twitter, and leaking stuff to the media. That's Wilson, right down to a T.

So, no, Sean isn't classless. He's doing his job as a NFL coach.

I think you're being a classless jerk when you publicly throw the former coach under the bus, the GM under the bus by implication, the offensive line under the bus (well I can't get rid of them all now...), RW under the bus, etc...

I have no problem with Payton moving on from RW, even benching him. But as arguably the face of the franchise, you don't have to be a classless jerk about it.

I don't know how you surmized I was some kind of a RW apologist from what I wrote.

 

[Palmegranite]

Here's a Sean Payton quote from a Sports Illustrated interview on Dec 27th:

"Payton acknowledges that the realities of the "economics" are part of the NFL, but he claimed he's yet to sit down and discuss it with CEO Greg Penner and GM George Paton. "

WTF? Payton's gone big-time rogue with this decision? ... or someone's not being truthful...

How does this square with the stories of Broncos threatening to bench Wilson if he wasn't willing to remove his injury guarantees back in week 8?

 

[Ozzy]

almost universally players are coming out against Payton and how he’s handled this. It’s a dumpster fire of his own creation

 

[Welshers2]

almost universally players are coming out against Payton and how he’s handled this. It’s a dumpster fire of his own creation

People are quick to forget that Payton is the guy who would literally pay players on his team to injure opposing players. Guy has always been a shmuck

 

[keasley45]

I think you're being a classless jerk when you publicly throw the former coach under the bus, the GM under the bus by implication, the offensive line under the bus (well I can't get rid of them all now...), RW under the bus, etc...

I have no problem with Payton moving on from RW, even benching him. But as arguably the face of the franchise, you don't have to be a classless jerk about it.

I don't know how you surmized I was some kind of a RW apologist from what I wrote.

So you're saying Russ is a classless jerk?