Which Russ Wilson would you rather have, current or rookie?

[John63]

Lol yeah throw In Julio Jones too. Now back to ralitynuou were not going to get Brown and if they thought ET was worth the money they they would have kept him.

Julio wasn't available. Not sure where you're trying to head but the money for ET wasn't available either. We'd be able to pay AB, ET, and BWagz with a rookie contact at QB.

For one the money for ET was available, they even said so, That said you assumed they wanted to resign ET or Brown would have wanted to come here lots of assumptions, and once again it would have all been for only 1 year? Or did you not read the criteria. Also, what makes you think they wanted Brown? Like I said you make a lot of assumptions, and if all or any of your assumptions are wrong we are left with a rookie QB for 1 year and a lot of money. That's all.

So the OP can make assumptions but no one else can? Thanks, bud. Russ without a great defense has been meh outside of personal stats. What makes you think it'll be any different this year?

ahh Meh, got us to the playoffs every year but 1, kept us going when we had nothing on offense and a less than stellar defense. That's a lot more than nothing. Now you may not think so but there are probably 25 other teams that would love knowing they have a chance every year. Imagine were we would be without him and say oh clipboard Jesus.

 

[Palmegranite]

Definitely current Russ. He's only getting better and better.
Next question: current or rookie Pete Carroll? Pete seems to be getting more and more set in his ways. Take the reigns off Pete and watch as Russell Wilson leads this team to another Super Bowl.

 

[Palmegranite]

Then you can let off the gas just a bit so that you can focus on other things. Everybody in the history of humanity does this.

Yeah I work with guys that do this. They suck. And it is not some universally accepted trope.


Especially not Russel Wilson letting off any gas.

 

[Popeyejones]

Thanks, but my questions were where the stat that the Seahawks gave up more sacks than anyone in under 2.5 seconds came from, and what % of Wilson's sacks came at or under 2.5 seconds?

Sorry, I don't have those stats - that's someone else's argument. I was just expanding on where they got the 2.5 seconds thing, which is the KPI for a successful pass block.

I believe the average time-to-throw is around 2.75 seconds. Wilson was 37th in the NFL last year (3rd from bottom) at 3.01 seconds to throw. However, he was also 3rd from the top in air yards per catch, so he was throwing longer than most.

But we could guess all that just by seeing him play. It's just what Wilson does. Cue the Benny Hill theme and watch Baldwin make a spectacular grab on the other end (or wonder why the hell Lockett was so open - weren't they covering him?).

But that comes at a cost, and that cost is sacks. The OL is not bad (tm) at holding blocks for 2.5 seconds, but the QB is averaging a half second longer to get the ball off, so that extra time is all on Wilson to make up for, and defensive linemen don't make the big bucks for being slow and lazy.

Not to mention that we seem to run into the best defensive lines on a regular basis - not exactly how that works.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the confusion, and agreed with everything you're saying here. :2thumbs:

And totally agreed this is what Wilson does. It's the yin and the yang of him. If taking unnecessary sacks is one of his worst qualities, coaching him out of it is also coaching him out of accentuating one of his best qualities.

As far as all this goes, the only place I'd at all knock him for is defaulting too much to trying escape laterally (and sometimes even backwards) from above the pocket when there's space for him to just step into it. His habit of that makes life hell for his tackles (when they're starting to get beat from the outside they're trying to push defenders above the pocket and out of the play, which Wilson runs into sometimes, and which leads to those backbreaking 10-15 yard sacks that nobody else really takes), and you can still break free from the pocket and play backyard ball even after stepping into it (which TBH, is maybe the best part of Rodgers' game IMO).

Even that criticism comes with the trade-off though, as when it works, it works insanely well.

 

[McGruff]

I dont think we can answer this question adequately until after this season.

I think there was a marked improvement in the mental aspect of Russ' game this past season under a new coordinator. If that continues this season, I think the answer will be obvious.

 

[McGruff]

But TBH, from a pure excitement standpoint, nothing will replaced Russ 1.0.

 

[soxhawk]

Julio wasn't available. Not sure where you're trying to head but the money for ET wasn't available either. We'd be able to pay AB, ET, and BWagz with a rookie contact at QB.

For one the money for ET was available, they even said so, That said you assumed they wanted to resign ET or Brown would have wanted to come here lots of assumptions, and once again it would have all been for only 1 year? Or did you not read the criteria. Also, what makes you think they wanted Brown? Like I said you make a lot of assumptions, and if all or any of your assumptions are wrong we are left with a rookie QB for 1 year and a lot of money. That's all.

So the OP can make assumptions but no one else can? Thanks, bud. Russ without a great defense has been meh outside of personal stats. What makes you think it'll be any different this year?

ahh Meh, got us to the playoffs every year but 1, kept us going when we had nothing on offense and a less than stellar defense. That's a lot more than nothing. Now you may not think so but there are probably 25 other teams that would love knowing they have a chance every year. Imagine were we would be without him and say oh clipboard Jesus.

Correct, and in either scenario, you get a Russell Wilson. You don't get Charlie Whitehurst. Russell was making great decisions as a rookie. That's why he won the starting job over Money Matt Flynn.

Him on a rookie contract opens more doors for the team to be better at other positions. On opening day this season, our defense won't be scaring anyone. Our WR's won't be scaring anyone. Maybe our RB's will scare someone.

We're probably a playoff team, but our only bright spot is QB. We're not a loaded team by any means.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Just gonna say there are a lot of rose-tinted glasses around here.

It took Wilson 5 games in 2012 to get his first 200-yard passing game. Anyone remember his first outing against SF? 9 out of 23 for 122 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT?

I'm not saying he was a bust or anything, but his first season vs now? Take the now. He's better in everything barring a couple of rushing categories.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Like MOST rookies who come out.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Like MOST rookies who come out.

Absolutely - I wouldn't presume otherwise.

 

[IndyHawk]

The oline was ranked in the bottom 5 in pass blocking, Wilson has been one of the top 3 most hit, sacked, pressured and hurried in under 2.5 seconds every year in the league. That is on the oline period.

Where is this stat coming from, and what % of his sacks were under 2.5 seconds?

I ask because of the 1,195 sacks in the NFL last year, only 20 of them (1.7%) occured at or under 2.5 seconds.

Because of that, we could go crazy and QUADRUPLE over the league average the rate at which Wilson was sacked in under 2.5 seconds last year, and we'd still be talking about 3.5 of the 51 times he was sacked.

Put another way, even after that crazy quadrupling if we removed all the times he was sacked in under 2.5 seconds and didn't remove them for anyone else he'd be the 6th most sacked QB in the league last year instead of the 3rd.

None of this means the Hawks' o-line is good, but it does mean that 2.5 seconds is probably a pretty bad yardstick to judge line play.

51 sacks are 51 sacks...stop rationalizing to put a positive spin on it . The down side of these sacks are numerous... like stalled drives...loss of downs...loss of yards...potential for fumbles and turnovers...and worst of all....having the backup QB under center because your starter has been injured.

Popeye makes good points but that isn't good enough
for you..You just want to blame only the OL when there are
multiple reasons leading to 51 sacks.
Start a thread on it so I can give you a few.

 

[John63]

Just gonna say there are a lot of rose-tinted glasses around here.

It took Wilson 5 games in 2012 to get his first 200-yard passing game. Anyone remember his first outing against SF? 9 out of 23 for 122 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT?

I'm not saying he was a bust or anything, but his first season vs now? Take the now. He's better in everything barring a couple of rushing categories.

Exactly.

 

[John63]

The oline was ranked in the bottom 5 in pass blocking, Wilson has been one of the top 3 most hit, sacked, pressured and hurried in under 2.5 seconds every year in the league. That is on the oline period.

Where is this stat coming from, and what % of his sacks were under 2.5 seconds?

I ask because of the 1,195 sacks in the NFL last year, only 20 of them (1.7%) occured at or under 2.5 seconds.

Because of that, we could go crazy and QUADRUPLE over the league average the rate at which Wilson was sacked in under 2.5 seconds last year, and we'd still be talking about 3.5 of the 51 times he was sacked.

Put another way, even after that crazy quadrupling if we removed all the times he was sacked in under 2.5 seconds and didn't remove them for anyone else he'd be the 6th most sacked QB in the league last year instead of the 3rd.

None of this means the Hawks' o-line is good, but it does mean that 2.5 seconds is probably a pretty bad yardstick to judge line play.

51 sacks are 51 sacks...stop rationalizing to put a positive spin on it . The down side of these sacks are numerous... like stalled drives...loss of downs...loss of yards...potential for fumbles and turnovers...and worst of all....having the backup QB under center because your starter has been injured.

Popeye makes good points but that isn't good enough
for you..You just want to blame only the OL when there are
multiple reasons leading to 51 sacks.
Start a thread on it so I can give you a few.

So I am not sure who you are talking to, however in the case it is me I mad e it very very clear I dont blame just the oline, and I spelled it out in the thread.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Where is this stat coming from, and what % of his sacks were under 2.5 seconds?

I ask because of the 1,195 sacks in the NFL last year, only 20 of them (1.7%) occured at or under 2.5 seconds.

Because of that, we could go crazy and QUADRUPLE over the league average the rate at which Wilson was sacked in under 2.5 seconds last year, and we'd still be talking about 3.5 of the 51 times he was sacked.

Put another way, even after that crazy quadrupling if we removed all the times he was sacked in under 2.5 seconds and didn't remove them for anyone else he'd be the 6th most sacked QB in the league last year instead of the 3rd.

None of this means the Hawks' o-line is good, but it does mean that 2.5 seconds is probably a pretty bad yardstick to judge line play.

51 sacks are 51 sacks...stop rationalizing to put a positive spin on it . The down side of these sacks are numerous... like stalled drives...loss of downs...loss of yards...potential for fumbles and turnovers...and worst of all....having the backup QB under center because your starter has been injured.

Popeye makes good points but that isn't good enough
for you..You just want to blame only the OL when there are
multiple reasons leading to 51 sacks.
Start a thread on it so I can give you a few.

So I am not sure who you are talking to, however in the case it is me I mad e it very very clear I dont blame just the oline, and I spelled it out in the thread.

Which is entirely appropriate, because we saw last year the difference it makes - even in just the first season - when you have a better OL coach AND a healthy Chris Carson. We should be even better this year, simply by virtue of being another year away from Cable's influence.

 

[Scorpion05]

The oline was ranked in the bottom 5 in pass blocking, Wilson has been one of the top 3 most hit, sacked, pressured and hurried in under 2.5 seconds every year in the league. That is on the oline period.

Where is this stat coming from, and what % of his sacks were under 2.5 seconds?

I ask because of the 1,195 sacks in the NFL last year, only 20 of them (1.7%) occured at or under 2.5 seconds.

Because of that, we could go crazy and QUADRUPLE over the league average the rate at which Wilson was sacked in under 2.5 seconds last year, and we'd still be talking about 3.5 of the 51 times he was sacked.

Put another way, even after that crazy quadrupling if we removed all the times he was sacked in under 2.5 seconds and didn't remove them for anyone else he'd be the 6th most sacked QB in the league last year instead of the 3rd.

None of this means the Hawks' o-line is good, but it does mean that 2.5 seconds is probably a pretty bad yardstick to judge line play.

Sunday Night Football I think over a year ago showed a stat highlighting that Russ was amongst the most pressured in under 2.5 to 3 seconds. Pressure that quickly will always throw off an offense, unless Russ is willing to sling it and take the hit. In which case, he'd probably miss games

 

[KitsapGuy]

 

[KiwiHawk]

Sunday Night Football I think over a year ago showed a stat highlighting that Russ was amongst the most pressured in under 2.5 to 3 seconds. Pressure that quickly will always throw off an offense, unless Russ is willing to sling it and take the hit. In which case, he'd probably miss games

But that was exactly the reason Cable was fired and replaced with the much more competent Solari, as witnessed by the improvement in our pass blocking last year. It is reasonable to expect additional improvement this year - even without much personnel turnover - due to his influence.

So I still don't see how that stat is relevant to this year's team, unless the point of changing the system and changing the OL coach is designed to produce the same result as the previous, which is insane.

Here, I'll just spell it right out in back-and-white: I think the Cable philosophy of having linemen dive at the knees of the pass rushers, ending up prone on the turf or being flagged for illegal blocks, is stupid in the extreme, and embarrassing as hell when you see pictures where the entire DL is standing and the entire OL is lying on the ground.

I think a kindergartener with a crayon can come up with a better blocking scheme than Tom Cable.

 

[IndyHawk]

:lol: :2thumbs:

 

[Seymour]

Sunday Night Football I think over a year ago showed a stat highlighting that Russ was amongst the most pressured in under 2.5 to 3 seconds. Pressure that quickly will always throw off an offense, unless Russ is willing to sling it and take the hit. In which case, he'd probably miss games

But that was exactly the reason Cable was fired and replaced with the much more competent Solari, as witnessed by the improvement in our pass blocking last year. It is reasonable to expect additional improvement this year - even without much personnel turnover - due to his influence.

So I still don't see how that stat is relevant to this year's team, unless the point of changing the system and changing the OL coach is designed to produce the same result as the previous, which is insane.

Here, I'll just spell it right out in back-and-white: I think the Cable philosophy of having linemen dive at the knees of the pass rushers, ending up prone on the turf or being flagged for illegal blocks, is stupid in the extreme, and embarrassing as hell when you see pictures where the entire DL is standing and the entire OL is lying on the ground.

I think a kindergartener with a crayon can come up with a better blocking scheme than Tom Cable.

The stat is still relevant!! :177692:

We also still pick run blocking linemen in guys like Fluker.

We were ranked #30 last year in pass blocking....about average for Pete Carroll NFL olines.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol


Also, Iupati who we just picked up is even worse!!!

23. Seattle Seahawks
Pos. Starter
LT Duane Brown
LG Mike Iupati
C Justin Britt
RG DJ Fluker
RT Germain Ifedi

Depth: George Fant, Ethan Pocic, Phil Haynes (R), Joey Hunt, Jordan Simmons

Once a laughingstock around the league, the Seahawks' line has established itself as a steady unit anchored by Brown, and it rose to a new level under O-line coach Mike Solari. With four starters returning and with Iupati taking over the left guard spot, we might be undervaluing this group.
No one should be surprised that Iupati's tour of the NFC West made its latest stop in Seattle after five years with the Niners and four years with the Cardinals. Iupati is a prototypical Seahawks lineman, receiving a top-seven run-blocking grade by Pro Football Focus to go with one of the worst pass-blocking grades the site gave out. Even so, he'll be a welcome addition for an offense that ran the ball more than any other team in 2018.
Brown and Iupati are a formidable tandem on the left side of the line and will be an excellent launching point for Chris Carson and Rashaad Penny, who could both be fantasy starters given the team's expected volume of carries.

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1781086

 

[SoulfishHawk]

My wife put it perfectly during a game last year from our seats "Can someone please block for the quarterback ONCE this season?"

It's a good point unfortunately.