Trade down options

[NoGain]

Nobody seems to remember when Oregon put pressure on Penix, or when Texas put pressue on Penix in the semifinal when he moved artfully in the pocket and connected time after time to receivers, or ran the ball for first downs.

 

[Hawkinaz]

Well my #1 trade down option in the 1st round, Oregon OC Jackson Powers-Johnson, may no longer be an option in the late 1st round. PFF has adjusted his prospect ranking considerably higher, after a couple of great days at the Senior Bowl, than what he had been.

The chatter at the senior bowl is that the expectation of JPJ will be a top 20 pick he went home after claiming a minor injury ( hamstring pull) I think it was his agent telling him to go home you have nothing else to prove similar to last year with Dawand Jones

 

[Chevy]

The chatter at the senior bowl is that the expectation of JPJ will be a top 20 pick he went home after claiming a minor injury ( hamstring pull) I think it was his agent telling him to go home you have nothing else to prove similar to last year with Dawand Jones

My draft crush is JPJ at this point of the draft process and would be good if we took him at #16. He would help provide our QB a clean pocket by doing his job and assisting his OGs. Big man can do it all in the run blocking game as well.

Curious to know what your opinion of taking him at #16?

 

[Wsumatt1982]

My draft crush is JPJ at this point of the draft process and would be good if we took him at #16. He would help provide our QB a clean pocket by doing his job and assisting his OGs. Big man can do it all in the run blocking game as well.

Curious to know what your opinion of taking him at #16?

If you are BPA doesn’t matter where you get picked. Much like Bijan Robinson going 7 when most teams don’t draft a RB that high anymore. I never believed because you play a certain position you can’t be picked there. If you’re a star you’re a star

 

[Chevy]

If you are BPA doesn’t matter where you get picked. Much like Bijan Robinson going 7 when most teams don’t draft a RB that high anymore. I never believed because you play a certain position you can’t be picked there. If you’re a star you’re a star

Well I disagree with that take. RB should never be drafted in the top-10, RB are too reliant on the offensive line talent.

Look to our own Kenneth Walker, we drafted him in the 2nd round. But back in the day he would have been a top-15 1st round draft pick. RBs value is lower nowadays because that is the most injury prone position in football and they have reley on a good offensive line for the most part...and rules lean heavily to the passing game.

 

[Seahawkwalt1967]

My draft crush is JPJ at this point of the draft process and would be good if we took him at #16. He would help provide our QB a clean pocket by doing his job and assisting his OGs. Big man can do it all in the run blocking game as well.

Curious to know what your opinion of taking him at #16?

Take him! Don’t get cute trading down and lose him. Perennial pro bowler imo. He is the first step in us being bullies again

 

[Maelstrom787]

My draft crush is JPJ at this point of the draft process and would be good if we took him at #16. He would help provide our QB a clean pocket by doing his job and assisting his OGs. Big man can do it all in the run blocking game as well.

Curious to know what your opinion of taking him at #16?

I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the prospect. But if you get anything less than perennial pro bowl out of a center/guard at that juncture, you screwed up real good in terms of positional value.

I don't like guards in the first for the same reason I don't like tight ends in the first. Just positional value.

If my targets are gone and JPJ is staring me in the face at 16, I trade down without a second thought. Figures to be a ton of premier talent on the board at that juncture though.

 

[12forlife]

I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the prospect. But if you get anything less than perennial pro bowl out of a center/guard at that juncture, you screwed up real good in terms of positional value.

I don't like guards in the first for the same reason I don't like tight ends in the first. Just positional value.

If my targets are gone and JPJ is staring me in the face at 16, I trade down without a second thought. Figures to be a ton of premier talent on the board at that juncture though.

Well I totally disagree with you if not QBOTF. OL & DL should be top priority nothing will take this team further faster then to build the trenches with bullies!! JPJ SCREAMS bully! He would be a perfect place to start the new regime, and the type of dawgs we i think Mac will be looking for! Watch how much Jason Kelce retiring criples the Eagles.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Well I totally disagree with you if not QBOTF. OL & DL should be top priority nothing will take this team further faster then to build the trenches with bullies!! JPJ SCREAMS bully! He would be a perfect place to start the new regime, and the type of dawgs we i think Mac will be looking for! Watch how much Jason Kelce retiring criples the Eagles.

OL should be top priority, but no one takes guards at 16 because they almost never live up to the value. It takes extremely rare talents like Quenton Nelson to get into the top half of the first round as an IOL.

I like JPJ, but passing on a guard at 16 isn't the same thing as de-prioritizing the trenches. More apt to take a premier defensive lineman there. They cost more to obtain, so our highest assets should be focused on obtaining one of them (if going binary choice DL vs IOL) rather than IOL which are almost universally taken outside of the first round.

 

[Wsumatt1982]

Well I disagree with that take. RB should never be drafted in the top-10, RB are too reliant on the offensive line talent.

Look to our own Kenneth Walker, we drafted him in the 2nd round. But back in the day he would have been a top-15 1st round draft pick. RBs value is lower nowadays because that is the most injury prone position in football and they have reley on a good offensive line for the most part...and rules lean heavily to the passing game.

I agree with what you said but a the RB position bijan is special and I see no problem with him going at 7 last year as he’s that special. Most I wouldn’t dream of picking that high but he’s a generational RB talent. Your points are all valid about the rest not picking too high for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[12forlife]

OL should be top priority, but no one takes guards at 16 because they almost never live up to the value. It takes extremely rare talents like Quenton Nelson to get into the top half of the first round as an IOL.

I like JPJ, but passing on a guard at 16 isn't the same thing as de-prioritizing the trenches. More apt to take a premier defensive lineman there. They cost more to obtain, so our highest assets should be focused on obtaining one of them (if going binary choice DL vs IOL) rather than IOL which are almost universally taken outside of the first round.

I agree with the draft capital might be rich, but we wouldn't draft JPJ to be a guard, he would be our center for the next 8-10 years hopefully. After Newton I really don't see another DL worthy of a 1st rd pick, unless we trade down and take DL Sweat Texas as our 0/1 tech monster in the middle of our DL. I just have a feeling John may have learned his lesson after passing on Humphrey & Linderbaum. It isn't an accident Baltimore & KC Olines are solid and built off/around a stud center. I know it's not the the sexy pick, it's just one of the smarter picks imo?

 

[gmor]

MM might like JJ McCarthy but it seems more often than not most college coaches don’t seem to bring players they had at college. I have no proof to back this up I just don’t remember seeing it very often. If up to me I want no part of penix, nix or McCarthy

I'm seeing a trade back with McCarthy or maybe Penix in the second, possibly third. OL will probably be our first pick.

 

[12forlife]

I'm seeing a trade back with McCarthy or maybe Penix in the second, possibly third. OL will probably be our first pick.

If you feel confident in whatever QB you like McCarthy or Penix, why would you mess around and let another team steal your guy, while getting cute and moving down, I hope we have learned that lesson. I believe they resign Williams so consider that our 2nd rd pick and move on, not having a 2nd rd pick for 1 season isn't breaking this team. Not having or QBOTF could cripple us for a decade? Plus taking our QBOTF in the 1st rd gives us the 5th year option, which helps give some flexibility in spreading a QB's inflated contract out.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Remember when everyone thought Pete was going to sign all his ex Trojan players. He brought in White, then cut him

While Pete didn't bring in his former college players, he did bring in a lot of players that he was familiar with. Baldwin and Sherman played against USC fairly often. Golden Tate, Jermain Kearse, Brandon Browner, Marshawn Lynch and probably others that I'm missing came from rivals of USC that Pete played every year. I know a few players were actively recruited by Pete during high school. Bruce Irvin being the one that springs immediately to mind.

The list is much larger than this, I looked at it before. While Pete didn't bring a lot of guys from USC, he did go with guys he spent time actively scheming against on a regular basis. Guys that Pete was familiar with in one from or another.

It's also worth noting that Pete and Macdonald have very different philosophies on defense. Pete believed in the beauty of simplicity, he had a bare bones defense, KJ Wright even talked about how the defense had only a couple of plays in the playbook.

Macdonald on the other hand runs a complex defense with a lot of moving parts. Lots of stunts, lineman dropping into coverage, picking up and passing off of assignments. If you're a safety you have a huge responsibilities and are expected to be anywhere on the field at any given time. Hamilton did everything on that defense, you never knew where he was going to be or what he was going to do. This defense will show you one play and end up dropping into a completely unexpected coverage. The safeties and the LB's do a lot of work in this defense.

Very different philosophies, I imagine he's going to at least want someone experienced in running his schemes. I could imagine him bringing in somebody like a Patrick Queen or maybe depth players that the Ravens don't decide to retain.

 

[Kamcussionator]

Remember when everyone thought Pete was going to sign all his ex Trojan players. He brought in White, then cut him

Taylor Mayes remembers...

 

[CPHawk]

Taylor Mayes remembers...

.

 

[chris98251]

If you feel confident in whatever QB you like McCarthy or Penix, why would you mess around and let another team steal your guy, while getting cute and moving down, I hope we have learned that lesson. I believe they resign Williams so consider that our 2nd rd pick and move on, not having a 2nd rd pick for 1 season isn't breaking this team. Not having or QBOTF could cripple us for a decade? Plus taking our QBOTF in the 1st rd gives us the 5th year option, which helps give some flexibility in spreading a QB's inflated contract out.

Don't need a guy in the first round to be your QBOTF or have you not seen the success of QB's in the league that are not Media darlings. Smart, play within themselves, high mental processor, Purdy, Wilson, Montana, Brady, Unitas, Hasselbeck, Kreig, Kirk Cousins, Brett Favre, Fran Tarkenton, Kurt Warner, Roger Staubach, Dak Prescott, Marc Bulger, Mark Brunell, Rich Gannon, Mark Rypien, Joe Theismann, Bart Starr.

Could go on but there is more than a hand full if you do the work and not get enamored by the media.

 

[12forlife]

Don't need a guy in the first round to be your QBOTF or have you not seen the success of QB's in the league that are not Media darlings. Smart, play within themselves, high mental processor, Purdy, Wilson, Montana, Brady, Unitas, Hasselbeck, Kreig, Kirk Cousins, Brett Favre, Fran Tarkenton, Kurt Warner, Roger Staubach, Dak Prescott, Marc Bulger, Mark Brunell, Rich Gannon, Mark Rypien, Joe Theismann, Bart Starr.

Could go on but there is more than a hand full if you do the work and not get enamored by the media.

Wow so you go and make up a list of the history of the NFL of QB's from after 1st rd picks? Most average at best, and only a couple HOF quality besides the (Goat).
Just this year alone 7-8 QB's in the playoffs were 1st rd picks????
So you go bank on Michael Pratt or Jordan Travis ( which Travis has "potential") in the 3rd or 4th rd to lead us to the promis land!?
If you went by that philosophy you might aswell consider us the new age Browns??
If we have a QB targeted in the 1st rd wether we have to move up for their guy or not you take the SOB! your neeeeeeever going to find a top 10 QB in the open market, you have to draft him? Is it a risk? He'll yes! Didn't seem to kill our playoff run with all the wasted or NO 1st rd picks
2013,'14 & '15 = NO PICKS
'16 = Germaine Ifedi
'17 no pick
'18 Reshaad Penny
'19 LJ Collier
'20 Jordan Brooks
'21 no pick?
Holy crap we might as well have tried choosing a QBOTF every year for what we got for return over that 9 year stretch? I hope we take whatever risk it takes if J/S & M/M feel that they have found their guy! Pete's gone things are about to change. I believe John goes back to his roots find our QBOTF, then in drafts to follow he implants another stud as our #2. Your only goin as far as your QB leads you in today's NFL.

 

[Double Tribble]

^This. Time to stop screwing around and get a qbotf in a qb rich draft. Why is this so controversial? It's a no brainer. Just do it and move on.

 

[Maelstrom787]

^This. Time to stop screwing around and get a qbotf in a qb rich draft. Why is this so controversial? It's a no brainer. Just do it and move on.

As with most things in life, it is not that simple and is not a no-brainer.

This is not an unlimited resource pool we get to pull from with any level of guaranteed results. It is a collection of unique individual with strengths, weaknesses, and personalities, each of which will be graded accordingly.

No one who actually is in a position to make decisions should be thinking like "Oh, well, deep quarterback draft. Just take one because it's deep!"

Deep is not an objective measure. It is a perception thing based on what pundits think about the amount of prospects that could go in the first 2 days. Does that mean that any of the prospects that our organization would deem worth the investment will be available for us? No. Does that mean it would be a misstep to not take a quarterback even if we don't believe in the available prospects? No.

People seem to think this stuff is easy. It is not.