Trade down options

[WarHawks]

As with most things in life, it is not that simple and is not a no-brainer.

This is not an unlimited resource pool we get to pull from with any level of guaranteed results. It is a collection of unique individual with strengths, weaknesses, and personalities, each of which will be graded accordingly.

No one who actually is in a position to make decisions should be thinking like "Oh, well, deep quarterback draft. Just take one because it's deep!"

Deep is not an objective measure. It is a perception thing based on what pundits think about the amount of prospects that could go in the first 2 days. Does that mean that any of the prospects that our organization would deem worth the investment will be available for us? No. Does that mean it would be a misstep to not take a quarterback even if we don't believe in the available prospects? No.

People seem to think this stuff is easy. It is not.

At the end of the day, yes, it is that simple. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. You can't hit a home run if you never swing the bat.

 

[Maelstrom787]

At the end of the day, yes, it is that simple. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. You can't hit a home run if you never swing the bat.

This is an oversimplification.

As for your analogy... do you think that baseball players aren't taught plate discipline?

Home runs are hit when everything lines up. Not when you're swinging at balls that are two feet off the plate.

QUALITY swings are what matters. That's the entire point.

 

[12forlife]

As with most things in life, it is not that simple and is not a no-brainer.

This is not an unlimited resource pool we get to pull from with any level of guaranteed results. It is a collection of unique individual with strengths, weaknesses, and personalities, each of which will be graded accordingly.

No one who actually is in a position to make decisions should be thinking like "Oh, well, deep quarterback draft. Just take one because it's deep!"

Deep is not an objective measure. It is a perception thing based on what pundits think about the amount of prospects that could go in the first 2 days. Does that mean that any of the prospects that our organization would deem worth the investment will be available for us? No. Does that mean it would be a misstep to not take a quarterback even if we don't believe in the available prospects? No.

People seem to think this stuff is easy. It is not.

Bro we get it, you didn't get laid this weekend, move on!
No one here is saying just because it's QB rich draft you just close your eyes and pick one.
There are (potentially) 6 QB going rd 1, with Rattler & Travis goin 2nd-3rd. I have a hard time imaging MM selling the farm year 1 to move up for one of the top 3. So that puts us in the JJ, Penix, Nix, Rattler & Travis discussion. With that group alone is a wide range of game play, from elite pocket passer, elite west coast manager to guys that can stretch defenses with their arm & legs? So yes out of the prospects in our realistic range yes I do see J/S & MM seeing a guy that they feel can run our Offense. Again no one is saying just chuck darts blindfolded. GO HAWKS!!

 

[chris98251]

They seem to think the Mediots ranking guys guarantee success, of all those Browns QB's drafted in the first round and there were a lot, none panned out, since our inception we have had pretty successful QB's Zorn, Krieg, Hass, Wilson for the most part and Smith now. None are first rounders, yet we have been to three Super bowls won multiple Conference and Division Championships in both conferences. The proof is already in our own history. The Lions had Stafford, no Super Bowl ever, Cleveland can't find a QB, been trying but those that think it's just go to your QB store and pick one off the shelf may want to direct them to the right Aisle, Jags have not been there, maybe they have a QB in Trevor Lawrence, we will see, that's a Guarantee Super Bowl right? oh and lets not forget Houston, Stroud is there now, but they have been looking for a QB since inception, they had Carr but ruined him with no line his first few years, guess he was not elite enough to carry the team without one.

Defense that is average or above, a Running game, a QB and WR's that are a reliable and can do multiple things well, O line that is average or above and the team playing as a team.

A Elite QB does not make you a Super Bowl winner, it may not even get you there if you don't have a team around them. Brady was a 6th rounder, they built a team around him, he just got better and better and then was able to tilt games as long as he had a supporting cast. We seen what happened when they lost their running game, when the line was suspect, when the defense was not up to snuff. His career was long enough you seen that happen, also add in losing key Coaches.

 

[WarHawks]

This is an oversimplification.

As for your analogy... do you think that baseball players aren't taught plate discipline?

Home runs are hit when everything lines up. Not when you're swinging at balls that are two feet off the plate.

QUALITY swings are what matters. That's the entire point.

Everything is an oversimplification with you. Yeah, I get it. Quality swings, yada yada. My point stands. At some point, you have to make the effort.

 

[Hawkinaz]

My draft crush is JPJ at this point of the draft process and would be good if we took him at #16. He would help provide our QB a clean pocket by doing his job and assisting his OGs. Big man can do it all in the run blocking game as well.

Curious to know what your opinion of taking him at #16?

I wouldn’t have a problem taking him @16 if you really like a player just take him and don’t worry about trading down to maximize value. If it was me Powers-Johnson is on my short list if staying @16. I am expecting JS to trade down to recoup the lost 2nd rd pick. If they do drop from 16 to wards end of the 1st rd they are probably only getting a 3rd rd pick

 

[GemCity]

I’m hoping we trade back. I understand this is a “QB rich” draft but I don’t like the idea of getting the projected 4th or 5th best player at a particular position.

There are always diamonds in the rough. I’d never bank on that. But sometimes, you can draft a guy in the later rounds who ends up being a HOFer when it’s all said and done.

There are way too many holes in this team. A team that has a mid-level QB. I wholeheartedly agree that Geno isn’t our QBotF but if I’m MM and I’m building this thing out, I’m rocking with Geno until the trenches are mean, nasty, and downright dominant.

Now if JS is sold on a guy, throw everything I said out the window. For the first time in a decade, if JS makes a move on a guy, I truly believe that pick will be a stud…this may sound like a veiled attack on PC. I suppose it is. Maybe I’m putting too much faith into the equation and/or don’t truly understand the dynamic PC and JS had.

I feel like our current FO is going to kick ass…

 

[JPatera76]

Reminder: everyone’s going to have differing opinions and view about the draft and who we should and shouldn’t get. Let’s avoid personal attacks.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm just hoping my wife doesn't trade me for a younger model to be named later.........

 

[Maelstrom787]

Bro we get it, you didn't get laid this weekend, move on!
No one here is saying just because it's QB rich draft you just close your eyes and pick one.
There are (potentially) 6 QB going rd 1, with Rattler & Travis goin 2nd-3rd. I have a hard time imaging MM selling the farm year 1 to move up for one of the top 3. So that puts us in the JJ, Penix, Nix, Rattler & Travis discussion. With that group alone is a wide range of game play, from elite pocket passer, elite west coast manager to guys that can stretch defenses with their arm & legs? So yes out of the prospects in our realistic range yes I do see J/S & MM seeing a guy that they feel can run our Offense. Again no one is saying just chuck darts blindfolded. GO HAWKS!!

Not a single one of those prospects is an elite prospect, which is why they're all likely to be available at 16.

If they were elite, they'd be gone by 16. They'd be gone by 10.

My entire point is that they should pass on the position if they don't have a prospect they're entirely sold on. If you disagree with that point, then it does seem like you're advocating for a forced pick at the spot.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Everything is an oversimplification with you. Yeah, I get it. Quality swings, yada yada. My point stands. At some point, you have to make the effort.

Things that are oversimplified are oversimplification to me, yes.

Throwing away premium picks on lower-ranked prospects is LJ Collier logic at a different position. Doesn't really work.

 

[Hawkinaz]

In the past decade there has been roughly a 30% success rate of QBs drafted in the 1st rd one of the biggest factors is the right guy going to the right team/coaching staff investing in the wrong guy will set your team back 3-5 year. My preferred plan is to build the rest of the team and when you get your young QB the rest of the team can carry the QB until he gets settled

 

[12forlife]

Not a single one of those prospects is an elite prospect, which is why they're all likely to be available at 16.

If they were elite, they'd be gone by 16. They'd be gone by 10.

My entire point is that they should pass on the position if they don't have a prospect they're entirely sold on. If you disagree with that point, then it does seem like you're advocating for a forced pick at the spot.

Not "Advocating" a damn thing, honestly just like alot of others here are getting thin on your trolling!
Every rookie QB ever drafted has question marks.
McCarthy deadly accurate 72.3% comp, can extend plays through arm & legs
Penix is an elite pocket passer
Nix is elite at the west coast offense 77% comp, 4500yrds, 45 td, 3int
Rattler is a similar product to JJ
Travis solid from the pocket, can also make plays with his legs.
I'm not J/S or MM. But they have a variety of QB's to pick from.
You can stop trolling my posts, they are intended for educated seahawks minds. Point and fact I have never ever said take a QB just to say we took one! Now I have said many times "if J/S & M/M feel their guy is within reach you take the SOB!!" Now you can quote that, and kick rocks!

 

[Maelstrom787]

Not "Advocating" a damn thing, honestly just like alot of others here are getting thin on your trolling!
Every rookie QB ever drafted has question marks.
McCarthy deadly accurate 72.3% comp, can extend plays through arm & legs
Penix is an elite pocket passer
Nix is elite at the west coast offense 77% comp, 4500yrds, 45 td, 3int
Rattler is a similar product to JJ
Travis solid from the pocket, can also make plays with his legs.
I'm not J/S or MM. But they have a variety of QB's to pick from.
You can stop trolling my posts, they are intended for educated seahawks minds. Point and fact I have never ever said take a QB just to say we took one! Now I have said many times "if J/S & M/M feel their guy is within reach you take the SOB!!" Now you can quote that, and kick rocks!

If any of these prospects were "elite" overall prospects, they'd be top-10 locks.

Also, disagreeing isn't trolling. Quit crying, FFS.

 

[GemCity]

Not "Advocating" a damn thing, honestly just like alot of others here are getting thin on your trolling!
Every rookie QB ever drafted has question marks.
McCarthy deadly accurate 72.3% comp, can extend plays through arm & legs
Penix is an elite pocket passer
Nix is elite at the west coast offense 77% comp, 4500yrds, 45 td, 3int
Rattler is a similar product to JJ
Travis solid from the pocket, can also make plays with his legs.
I'm not J/S or MM. But they have a variety of QB's to pick from.
You can stop trolling my posts, they are intended for educated seahawks minds. Point and fact I have never ever said take a QB just to say we took one! Now I have said many times "if J/S & M/M feel their guy is within reach you take the SOB!!" Now you can quote that, and kick rocks!

Jeez 12for…Mael is generally viewed as one of the ‘educated’ ones around here.

A bit harsh dawg…

 

[Chevy]

OL should be top priority, but no one takes guards at 16 because they almost never live up to the value. It takes extremely rare talents like Quenton Nelson to get into the top half of the first round as an IOL.

I like JPJ, but passing on a guard at 16 isn't the same thing as de-prioritizing the trenches. More apt to take a premier defensive lineman there. They cost more to obtain, so our highest assets should be focused on obtaining one of them (if going binary choice DL vs IOL) rather than IOL which are almost universally taken outside of the first round.

JPJ is a center not a guard. I do think JPJ will be an All-Pro many times over in the NFL.

 

[Seahawkwalt1967]

JPJ is a center not a guard. I do think JPJ will be an All-Pro many times over in the NFL.

Yup ..

 

[12forlife]

If any of these prospects were "elite" overall prospects, they'd be top-10 locks.

Also, disagreeing isn't trolling. Quit crying, FFS.

Dude you don't now your a$$ from a hole in the ground. Watch some college football, look a guy up on YouTube, look at their stats & records?
Hell watch some sports Television. I didn't call them all elite did I? Nope? Funny all but Travis & Rattler are in 1st round discussion. This is considered an "Elite QB class" "deepest in decades" I've heard that from several different talking heads in the NFL, so not just my opinion.
My term of elite is a college QB that shows ME the intangibles to be a NFL starting QB. May win the SB, may be a pro bowler, might just be a solid starting QB? But with the guys I list including Travis & Rattler imo could all be better then Geno, plus younger, and cheaper, and wouldn't have to dummy down the offense! I realize that you've probably never seen elite talent coming from Delaware so I'll let it slide.

 

[Maelstrom787]

JPJ is a center not a guard. I do think JPJ will be an All-Pro many times over in the NFL.

JPJ isn't just a center, although I think he looks better there. He's played significant snaps at RG, including the vast majority of his 2022 season. Similar prospect to Cesar Ruiz in that fashion.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Dude you don't now your a$$ from a hole in the ground.

I rest my case.

Bless your heart.