The D, what are the problems?

[Sgt. Largent]

Can you imagine this place if the Hawks lose on Monday. Holy hell...……

I'd imagine most sensible and objective Hawk fans are expecting us to lose. So unless it's a epic beatdown of biblical proportions, I doubt most of us sane fans aren't going to treat a loss to the Niners any worse than a normal loss.

45-10 type loss? Yeah, this place will be on fire. But 27-21 type loss? Nah.

I agree but wonder what the place will be like if the team actually you know wins on Monday? I'd bet the same suspects will still be complaining about Pete's coaching.

Here's to having this problem on Monday!

 

[jammerhawk]

We are wandering off topic here, but the Digits are favoured by 6.5 according to Vegas.

 

[SeaWolv]

It’s very telling that the Texans didn’t want to pay big money to keep Clowney. I have not heard his name much when I watch the games.

He's getting double teamed because he's the only threat on the Dline. He either needs his fellow Dlineman to step up or he needs better talent next to him.

 

[Crizilla]

Missed tackles and bad instincts.

 

[Mad Dog]

We are wandering off topic here, but the Digits are favoured by 6.5 according to Vegas.

Sounds fair. In my heart of hearts I think we are 1 TD underdogs.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Missed tackles and bad instincts.

Sounds good, but other than the rain games our tackling's been fine. Still some bad fits and gap issues, and bad angles trying to tackle WR's and TE's, but overall that's not the issue for me.

I don't see any edge. I don't see any playmakers. I don't see the same dynamic bad ass bullies that punched teams in the mouth and took their lunch money.

Flowers and Griffin have ONE interception over the past 18 games. One........if that's not last in the entire league with DB tandems I'd be shocked. Someone make a damn play.

 

[SeaWolv]

Defensive line.

Everything else is just fine. Secondary, despite no pass rush at all, is still covering at a barely above average rate. Blair has definitely changed the calculus for how the secondary shapes up. Diggs and return of McDougald could strengthen it more.

Griffin has been really solid this year. Probably to the point where we won't be able to retain him. Flowers is getting picked on. But I really do think that's more a function of lack of pressure. He is more of a Brandon Browner type of CB. Bigger, not fast. And with no expected pressure, he has to play back and guard the 9 allowing a lot of easy stuff underneath. He'd vastly improve with increased pressure.

It is all about the putrid pass rush. And it's personnel. Fix that and you can play tighter. We have the pieces on the roster to play that way. But can't because opponents can call long developing plays and use double moves at will.

I agree Clowney needs help on the Dline. At least one more solid DT and a good DE. I disagree with your assessment on the secondary. I think we need a lock down corner and a good nickel/viper.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Defensive line.

Everything else is just fine. Secondary, despite no pass rush at all, is still covering at a barely above average rate. Blair has definitely changed the calculus for how the secondary shapes up. Diggs and return of McDougald could strengthen it more.

Griffin has been really solid this year. Probably to the point where we won't be able to retain him. Flowers is getting picked on. But I really do think that's more a function of lack of pressure. He is more of a Brandon Browner type of CB. Bigger, not fast. And with no expected pressure, he has to play back and guard the 9 allowing a lot of easy stuff underneath. He'd vastly improve with increased pressure.

It is all about the putrid pass rush. And it's personnel. Fix that and you can play tighter. We have the pieces on the roster to play that way. But can't because opponents can call long developing plays and use double moves at will.

I agree Clowney needs help on the Dline. At least one more solid DT and a good DE. I disagree with your assessment on the secondary. I think we need a lock down corner and a good nickel/viper.

Ain't no way Flowers and Griffin are the answer at corner. Griffin's a solid #2 that flashes as a #1 at times, but not consistently enough to be a true #1.

Flowers is just terrible, and IMO isn't going to get any better. He's a backup. Bad ball skills, grabby and gets turned around far too often.

On any team, but especially THIS team we desperately need a #1 corner that can not only take away half the field to allow Pete to play cover 3 and press like he likes to...........but a true #1 that takes the ball away and gets at least 6-7 picks a year scaring the other team's offensive coordinator and QB into not even throwing his direction.

We've got none of this.

 

[HawkGA]

Missed tackles and bad instincts.

Sounds good, but other than the rain games our tackling's been fine. Still some bad fits and gap issues, and bad angles trying to tackle WR's and TE's, but overall that's not the issue for me.

I don't see any edge. I don't see any playmakers. I don't see the same dynamic bad ass bullies that punched teams in the mouth and took their lunch money.

Flowers and Griffin have ONE interception over the past 18 games. One........if that's not last in the entire league with DB tandems I'd be shocked. Someone make a damn play.

How many interceptions do you think they should get playing a soft zone with no pass rush?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Missed tackles and bad instincts.

Sounds good, but other than the rain games our tackling's been fine. Still some bad fits and gap issues, and bad angles trying to tackle WR's and TE's, but overall that's not the issue for me.

I don't see any edge. I don't see any playmakers. I don't see the same dynamic bad ass bullies that punched teams in the mouth and took their lunch money.

Flowers and Griffin have ONE interception over the past 18 games. One........if that's not last in the entire league with DB tandems I'd be shocked. Someone make a damn play.

How many interceptions do you think they should get playing a soft zone with no pass rush?

More than one, and what about all of last year.

If your CB's aren't intercepting footballs, it's time for new cornerbacks.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Back to back games that there was a dropped Pick 6.

 

[dopeboy206]

Speed, speed, speed. They need to get speed on that DL. They don't have it right now. Right now they have a bunch of people who can play inside or outside, but that means nobody who can excel on the outside. I'm gonna be a broken record on this until something better happens or somebody comes up with a better suggestion, but they need to start putting Queem at DE on obvious passing situations. Get some speed coming off the edge. Start off with it on 2 minute offenses or third and really long. He's not gonna stand up against the run, so just use him at times when you know they aren't gonna run.

One other note: Pete is too obsessed with stopping the run. The league isn't a running league anymore. He's trying to stop the thing teams don't actually do. It's a horrible strategy.

Aren't Clowney and Ansah speed guys? DE's don't get any faster than the duos we have. Just saying.


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[HawkGA]

Ziggy is 275 and ran a 4.63 40. Clowney is 255 and ran a 4.53.

I'm not talking good speed for a DE. Queem ran a 4.38. Now, he's only 227 so he wouldn't make a good every down DL player, but on a 3rd and long or 2 minute situation? Get that speed in there. Bring back the Rufus Porter years.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Speed, speed, speed. They need to get speed on that DL. They don't have it right now. Right now they have a bunch of people who can play inside or outside, but that means nobody who can excel on the outside. I'm gonna be a broken record on this until something better happens or somebody comes up with a better suggestion, but they need to start putting Queem at DE on obvious passing situations. Get some speed coming off the edge. Start off with it on 2 minute offenses or third and really long. He's not gonna stand up against the run, so just use him at times when you know they aren't gonna run.

One other note: Pete is too obsessed with stopping the run. The league isn't a running league anymore. He's trying to stop the thing teams don't actually do. It's a horrible strategy.

Aren't Clowney and Ansah speed guys? DE's don't get any faster than the duos we have. Just saying.


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Clowney was never a speed guy, even out of college.........and obviously Ansah is no longer a speed guy, he's a warm body taking up space and not doing anything guy.

Clowney's a big powerful DE with enough quickness and explosiveness to break through gaps and double teams to make some plays and disrupt........but as far as a pure Avril or Clark type edge rusher? Nope, we don't have any of those. Not a one. Zilch, Nyet, Nada, Bupkiss.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Can't stop the run or pass consistently . Just not a very good across the board ; which includes the coaching .

fire Pete

Somehow I suspect your tongue was in your cheek; but if not then replace him with who exactly? Won't the new guy have the same problems if the personnel is as bad as some here think it is?

Totally buried deeply in my cheek

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I agree but wonder what the place will be like if the team actually you know wins on Monday? I'd bet the same suspects will still be complaining about Pete's coaching.

No, that wouldn't happen here! :sarcasm_off:

 

[dopeboy206]

Speed, speed, speed. They need to get speed on that DL. They don't have it right now. Right now they have a bunch of people who can play inside or outside, but that means nobody who can excel on the outside. I'm gonna be a broken record on this until something better happens or somebody comes up with a better suggestion, but they need to start putting Queem at DE on obvious passing situations. Get some speed coming off the edge. Start off with it on 2 minute offenses or third and really long. He's not gonna stand up against the run, so just use him at times when you know they aren't gonna run.

One other note: Pete is too obsessed with stopping the run. The league isn't a running league anymore. He's trying to stop the thing teams don't actually do. It's a horrible strategy.

Aren't Clowney and Ansah speed guys? DE's don't get any faster than the duos we have. Just saying.


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Clowney was never a speed guy, even out of college.........and obviously Ansah is no longer a speed guy, he's a warm body taking up space and not doing anything guy.

Clowney's a big powerful DE with enough quickness and explosiveness to break through gaps and double teams to make some plays and disrupt........but as far as a pure Avril or Clark type edge rusher? Nope, we don't have any of those. Not a one. Zilch, Nyet, Nada, Bupkiss.

clowney runs a 4.5 in his 40. That's pretty fast for DE. He's probably the fastest DE in the NFL.


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[JerHawk81]

I think the issues with pass rush are predominately personnel.

My read of our defensive scheme is that we build a D around unique players with special talent. This includes playing a very predictable style of defense, but playing it exceptionally well. And, for the last decade, we've had special talent on the DL - including talent that is specifically designed to rush the passer. Today, we don't have that talent. That's not to say that our DL is inferior (in fact, I would say that they are probably about average), but that they aren't exceptional.

Just my take.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I think the issues with pass rush are predominately personnel.

My read of our defensive scheme is that we build a D around unique players with special talent. This includes playing a very predictable style of defense, but playing it exceptionally well. And, for the last decade, we've had special talent on the DL - including talent that is specifically designed to rush the passer. Today, we don't have that talent. That's not to say that our DL is inferior (in fact, I would say that they are probably about average), but that they aren't exceptional.

Just my take.

Honestly, it's the defensive playcalling. Wait until Norton unleashes them. Rope-a-dope.

 

[justafan]

Im in denial at this point. Im usually optimistic and I still think there is enough talent to be a respectable D by playoff time. It feels like this team just needs to amp up the intensity. I still think Reed will make an impact this year. I am hoping Diggs makes a difference with the emotion and leadership while giving more versatility to the D packages. He and Blair should bolster the back end.

Im a huge fan of our Lbs, combined with Reed,Clowney and Ansah you would think its enough to have an effective front seven. If not I am all for letting them walk and start bringing in young and hungry players who are gonna fly around and bring new leadership to that side of the ball. We can be below average with or without them if they dont come around.