Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread

Sgt. Largent

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I only meant by true winger that IMO Flaco would shine in this formation, rather than the stagnant rigid lob ball 4-4-2 Sigi always had to play that stunted everyone's creativity.
 

Uncle Si

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Sgt. Largent":3os4jddq said:
I only meant by true winger that IMO Flaco would shine in this formation, rather than the stagnant rigid lob ball 4-4-2 Sigi always had to play that stunted everyone's creativity.

I mean if you have one true winger, then trying to add another and giving your team options about whether they want to play narrow or wide is a considerable asset. but.. you probably need another creative CAM to play 3 across the line as well.
 

knownone

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Uncle Si":rdpmh98b said:
The goal I saw scored came about from a lack of pressure from the central midfield. A player was allowed to cut in, and without pressure, pick out a very dangerous pass inside penalty spot. Some lack of communication from the keeper and a complete shut down by the back led to the goal.
I think it's worth noting that that goal only happens if your RB doesn't track his guy into the box and your CB makes an error. Speaking from a midfielders perspective, it would be incredibly harsh to blame the center mids for that goal.
 

Uncle Si

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knownone":2kbp30ja said:
Uncle Si":2kbp30ja said:
The goal I saw scored came about from a lack of pressure from the central midfield. A player was allowed to cut in, and without pressure, pick out a very dangerous pass inside penalty spot. Some lack of communication from the keeper and a complete shut down by the back led to the goal.
I think it's worth noting that that goal only happens if your RB doesn't track his guy into the box and your CB makes an error. Speaking from a midfielders perspective, it would be incredibly harsh to blame the center mids for that goal.

The midfielders job in a double pivot is to prevent penetrating runs and passes from reaching the backline. If it was a cross from a wide position I would agree with you. But it wasn't. It was taken into the middle of the field by an attacking player who was then given the freedom space and time to make a dangerous pass.

Breaking down defenses is about exposing weaknesses and unbalancing players. Here, the weakness was a lack of pressure from the cdm. Led to the backline reacting to an extremely dangerous ball. The backline couldve (should've) done better, but really you don't want your backline dealing with those sorts of passes very often.

Any solid midfielder would recognize their error in that. If they step to the ball their is no pass for the rb or CB to mix up
 

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U-16 team won an international tournament this morning by beating the academy from FC Basel.

The U-16 wen 4-0-1 in the Tournament with a +9 GD.

They beat Newcastle, FAB, Wolverhampton and FC Basel. The only draw was a 3-3 result to Charlton Athletic.

Top Scorer of the tournament was the Sounders Azriel Gonzalez with 5.
Player of the Tournament was the Sounders Daniel Robles.


[tweet]https://twitter.com/Sheila_8_/status/761586334100287489[/tweet]
 

knownone

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Uncle Si":3og2xbos said:
knownone":3og2xbos said:
Uncle Si":3og2xbos said:
The goal I saw scored came about from a lack of pressure from the central midfield. A player was allowed to cut in, and without pressure, pick out a very dangerous pass inside penalty spot. Some lack of communication from the keeper and a complete shut down by the back led to the goal.
I think it's worth noting that that goal only happens if your RB doesn't track his guy into the box and your CB makes an error. Speaking from a midfielders perspective, it would be incredibly harsh to blame the center mids for that goal.

The midfielders job in a double pivot is to prevent penetrating runs and passes from reaching the backline. If it was a cross from a wide position I would agree with you. But it wasn't. It was taken into the middle of the field by an attacking player who was then given the freedom space and time to make a dangerous pass.

Breaking down defenses is about exposing weaknesses and unbalancing players. Here, the weakness was a lack of pressure from the cdm. Led to the backline reacting to an extremely dangerous ball. The backline couldve (should've) done better, but really you don't want your backline dealing with those sorts of passes very often.

Any solid midfielder would recognize their error in that. If they step to the ball their is no pass for the rb or CB to mix up
I agree that the #6 is at fault, but he's caught between two places, covering the through ball, and pressuring Gerrard. In a normal system, Lodeiro should communicate to Ozzie to step forward and cover Gio, while he pressures Gerrard, that kind of happened, but instead both Lodeiro and Ozzie took Gerrard too late. If Gerrard wanted to he had a streaking Gio with acres of space.

The issue I have when placing the blame on the CDM, your completely ignoring the fact that your RB left his guy completely unmarked in the box. Literally, Lletget is flailing his hands in the air and Mears is a still a solid 5 feet away from him when the cross comes in, and Mears doesn't track him when the ball is in the air.
 

Uncle Si

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Nobody's ignoring it, nor placing the blame entirely on the cdm. The opposite, pointing out the fault did not fall entirely on the backline, which posts above indicated.

It was a transition goal. When you have two sitting in front of the cbs one needs to step and force the ball wide or back. Didn't happen. Initial fault lies there. And again, a good midfielder would accept that as I'm sure the two Sounders did v
 

Smurf

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Only 2 changes this week. Valdez to the Bench, Morris moves up top to the lone forward, and Ivanschitz slots in on the left.
 
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SeatownJay

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Smurf":33oameyh said:
Only 2 changes this week. Valdez to the Bench, Morris moves up top to the lone forward, and Ivanschitz slots in on the left.
Both of those are positive changes.
 
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SeatownJay

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Big offensive night tonight. Lodeiro distributing beautifully, Morris with a couple of assists, and Dempsey with a hat trick.
 

knownone

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Amazing how a team with no talent, is suddenly dominating teams.
 

hawkfan68

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Getting 3pts on the road, hat trick for Duece, Lodeiro making a great impact, were good things. A bad thing was the defensive lapse early on allowed another easy goal for Orlando FC in the first 10 minutes. Joevin Jones was awful early on in the match.
 

Glasgow Seahawk

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One of the most dominant performances of the season.

Hard to tell if its lodeiro or schemtzer that has provided the bounce. Both?

Still on the evans to anywhere but cb train. Mears played better today though.

Need to win 9 from 12 to make the play offs. The way the team is playing its possible but going to be damn hard. Would need everyone to stay healthy, torres to come back strong and hope valdez finds the net. Feels like the mariners play off chances.

It frustrates me these changes were made so late, a few games earlier and id have been more hopeful.
 

knownone

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It's 95% Lodeiro. The amount of space he's created for Dempsey and Morris is a night and day difference.

In many ways the playoffs are in Seattle's hands. They play every team that's ahead of them, and in the case of Portland and Vancouver, they play them twice. There is a possibility this team is in a playoff position before September.
 

Sgt. Largent

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knownone":2s7q6ghx said:
It's 95% Lodeiro. The amount of space he's created for Dempsey and Morris is a night and day difference.

In many ways the playoffs are in Seattle's hands. They play every team that's ahead of them, and in the case of Portland and Vancouver, they play them twice. There is a possibility this team is in a playoff position before September.

All true, Lodeiro has some world class vision.

I'm still worried about our backline, Orlando should have scored at least one if not two more goals yesterday.

Hopefully Torres is back this week or next.
 

knownone

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I know some of you don't like metrics, but since I'm a massive nerd, I'm gonna indulge a bit.

According to metrics that analyze how a team plays overall the Sounders are predicted to have about 32 points thus far, which would put them in 6th place on the table. So we must ask, why are the Sounders sitting on just 24 points.

The answer is simple. The metrics don't accurately weigh and account for penalties and errors that lead to goals, outside of the normal run of play.

Why is this important? Well, the Sounders are a playoff team if you take out things that are relatively unpredictable, such as Brad Evan's miscommunication leading to goals, Tyler Miller's fluky error that lead to a goal, and the complete bullshit penalties / red cards through out the season.

You might be thinking "well that sh*t happened" and you are right, which is why I'm not going to argue that. However, what this does prove is that before Lodeiro came into play, the Sounders were roughly an average team, that because of misfortune were performing like a bad team.

In 2012 the Seahawks went through something similar. In week 8 they fell to 4-4, but the metrics showed them as one of the top 5 teams in the NFL, mostly because of stellar defense. Everyone knew the team was talented, the metrics showed that, but a struggling offense stifled their ability to win. So what changed? Seattle started implementing the read option, defenses were unprepared, and didn't have enough information to adequately slow down the Hawks offense. This lead to one of the best teams in NFL history. If I remember correctly those Seahawk's had one of the 3 best weighted DVOA scores in NFL history, from week 8 on.

How does that relate to the Sounders? Lodeiro coming in is already having a similar affect as the read option. We saw Orlando try a multitude of things to stop Lodeiro and it killed them. They tried suffocating Lodeiro centrally which gave Dempsey space, and opened up the wings, which lead to Mears assist and Dempsey's goal. They tried marking Lodeiro out of the game, and played a high line to deal with the space and speed, that that gives to Morris (which is what LA did) and it worked, until Morris started passing to Dempsey who sat in the pockets opened up by the marking of Lodeiro and the line now chasing Morris.

As it stands teams don't have enough information to adequately defend against Lodeiro, that doesn't mean they won't figure him out, but right now Seattle is in a bit of an updraft.

This gets even better for the Sounders optimists, like myself.

Seattle is currently middle of the pack in terms of goals allowed (29). Most of those goals come from through balls and aerial duels, almost half of those goals come from the left side, and most of the aerial goals are scored against Mears / Jones. Mears is actually a net positive defensively, because of his one v one skills (this is contrary to what I thought, based on film). Jones is actually pretty good in the air, but he struggles in tracking and decision making (which is why most of the goals come from his side).

This all circles back to one man... Roman Torres. Roman Torres was the best defender in the 2015 Gold Cup at winning aerial duels, and intercepting. It's hard to find data from the 2015 Gold Cup, but doing a decent amount of digging, Roman averaged 4 interceptions per 90 (that's overestimated and it is more than likely around 3.5-3.8, but I can't find data for every game) For perspective Chad Marshall and Brad Evans are top 10 in MLS with 3.4 interceptions per 90. If Roman Torres can live up to 80% of what he's been in the past he'll be right in line with Marshall as one of the top 10 CBs in the league.

Because of Jones weakness defensively, If Seattle moves Brad Evans to LB, and plays him in someways as CB in a 3 man line to limit his weakness going forward in an unnatural position. Seattle's defense at least analytically speaking would be #1 in the league. It would also be flexible, that in a situation where you need utility, you can go to a 3 man back line, move Evans to the right and put Jones in as a league average winger, with defensive tendencies.

WHAT DOES ALL THE BS MEAN!

If Lodeiro can keep up his pace, and teams continue to struggle to contain him. If Roman Torres can come in from injury and contribute to close to what he's been most of his career, and you flex Evans to LB to cover the deficiencies of Jones. The Sounders adjusted PPG average for the remainder of the Season would be 2.2 PPG, which would put Seattle at 50 points for the year. It would also make the Sounders the DVOA equivalent of the 2012 Seahawks. They'd sit around 1.64 goals per game, and .89 goals allowed, which would be second only to the LA Galaxy who currently sit at around 1.68 goals per game, and 1.0 goals allowed.

I know numbers very rarely play out how they do on paper in professional sports, but if the Sounders can even remotely live up to their projections... we may be in for one of the wildest rides in Seattle sports history.

or the team will fall off a cliff lol, who really knows.
 

Sgt. Largent

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knownone":6pi38krs said:
or the team will fall off a cliff lol, who really knows.

After all that well thought out analysis you put in this disclaimer, lol. C'mon man, stick to your guns.

IMO Torres is the key here down the stretch if the Sounders get back in the playoff hunt. Lodeiro has sparked the offense, we just need a steady CB to shore up our leaky dysfunctional back line.
 
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