Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread

[hawkfan68]

New kits today.

Primary and Third. Assuming White remains as first alternate.

Do they come in mens?

They are still better than these -

 

[JSeahawks]

New kits today.

Primary and Third. Assuming White remains as first alternate.

Do they come in mens?

They are still better than these -

I like the main timbers green, those reds are pretty ugly. I don't mind the sounders blue and green, but the aqua is pretty uninspiring.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Even preseason 4-0 beatdowns of LA is satisfying.

Watching the highlights one thing is clear...............Jordan Morris is fast. REALLY fast.

 

[Smurf]

Even preseason 4-0 beatdowns of LA is satisfying.

Watching the highlights one thing is clear...............Jordan Morris is fast. REALLY fast.

Enjoyable game in some terrible conditions.

They played a 433 the whole match with the #1's going about 60 minutes. Here is how they lined up, which is different than what I have anticipated, and seen thus far.


Dempsey-----------Valdez--------------Morris

-----------------Ivanschitz------------------------

------------Alonso-----------Friberg-------------

Jones---------------------------------------Mears
---------------Marshal--------Evans-------------

---------------------Frei-----------------------------


Dempsey and Morris were wide, and interchanged positions with Valdez pretty regularly. Both had tendencies to cut in, and play pretty narrow. This left space for the fullbacks to get forward when they could. Jones got forward quite a bit, and that kid is fast.

The midfield three worked well together to close down passing lanes and win the ball back. Ivanschitz was the point man of the attack, and displayed some incredible distribution last night. Looks like he will be playing the #10 role for us, with Valdez the Target man. All three up top impressed me with their ability to stretch the defense last night, but the one that took me the most by surprise was Valdez. He kept the defense honest by peeling off the shoulders of the centerbacks. He held the ball up well, but also stretched the defense.

Another thing that stood out to me was our defensive aggressiveness. We deployed a high press and were forcing the Gerrard into the back line to get touches of the ball, and Robbie Keane 20 yards inside his own half to get a sniff of the ball. The front 6 kept balls off the back line pretty well. Such a big difference from what I've seen from the club the last few seasons.

Overall we were very, very aggressive.

Morris looked good, 2 assists on players where a lot of younger players usually make a quick decision to shoot. He held the ball and dished it.

Another player who really stood out to me was Christian Roldan. When he came on he was friggin everywhere. He won the ball 15-20 times in the 30 minutes he put in.

 

[Uncle Si]

Thats a 4-2-3-1.. especially if they are tucked in and interchanging. You posted them too high. They wouldn't be even with the target player AND tucked in. Essentially you are playing with 3 CAMs below the target player in either a triangle or tight diamond. Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern play this way as well. If the #9 was more fluid (ie, was actually Jordan Morris), then having the CAMs (see my post on the different types of wingers) be wingers would make more sense both tactically and spatially. Barcelona and Real play that way.

I imagine if the former Husky kid comes on out wide the play changes considerably?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

They played a 433 the whole match with the #1's going about 60 minutes. Here is how they lined up, which is different than what I have anticipated, and seen thus far.


Dempsey-----------Valdez--------------Morris

-----------------Ivanschitz------------------------

------------Alonso-----------Friberg-------------

Jones---------------------------------------Mears
---------------Marshal--------Evans-------------

---------------------Frei-----------------------------.

I like this formation for more than just the aggressiveness you described.

Having Dempsey out wide, Valdez up top and Alonso just having to cover one side of the pitch should keep those three players fresher and less likely to over extend themselves and get hurt.........which has plagued both Valdez and Alonso, and to a lesser extent Dempsey.

 

[Smurf]

Thats a 4-2-3-1.. especially if they are tucked in and interchanging. You posted them too high. They wouldn't be even with the target player AND tucked in. Essentially you are playing with 3 CAMs below the target player in either a triangle or tight diamond. Liverpool, Arsenal, Bayern play this way as well. If the #9 was more fluid (ie, was actually Jordan Morris), then having the CAMs (see my post on the different types of wingers) be wingers would make more sense both tactically and spatially. Barcelona and Real play that way.

I imagine if the former Husky kid comes on out wide the play changes considerably?

I didn't think of it as a 4231 when I saw it in motion last night. Valdez was not on his own line up top, he had Morris and Dempsey equal to him fairly regularly. That said, there is not a whole lot of difference between a CAM 433, and a 4231, the main difference being the expectation of "type of winger" I suppose.


The Main point is that the 2 outside players (who are both "out of position") did a mix of staying wide and attacking fullbacks, and squeezing in to space.


Tactically we did not change when Darwin Jones came in the game. He went to RW (or RAM), Morris to ST, and Kovar to LW (LAM), Mansaray entered at CAM. Stylistically we remained true to what we had done with the #1's.

 

[Uncle Si]

theres quite a bit of difference to be honest. Some of it subtle, some of it quite important, including the attacking channels and direction of play, the responsibilities of the wide defenders, and roles of the wing backs in attack (support or overlap). there are quite a few differences in where the wingers are between the two formations as well, and in so doing the type of winger you employ.

In a 4231 you use players like Dempsey (or Silva, Sanchez, Ozil, Coutinho) whereas the 433 it is faster players employed specifically to run the flanks. So it is a big difference and I'm sure the manager will have to sort out as they near the start of the season. You dont want Dempsey running the flanks and you probably dont want Jones tucking in...interchanging is more natural in a 4-2-3-1. I didnt see it but when you mention Valdez as a target striker in one post, and then not on his own in another its a little confusing. If he's not on his own he's not a "target striker". If he is running off the CBs than the wider players need to drop a bit to be available for opportunities from him.

Morris should be the 9 and as a fan of USMNT soccer its upsetting he is not. He won't develop as well out wide (especially tucked in). Dempsey as wider CAM is a good role for him, similar to some of his better moments at Fulham.

It will be interesting to see how it develops. Having Morris now and not Martins makes it far more intriguing to me. '

(I love talking tactics by the way, so don't take any of this as argumentative. It's like talking about chess strategy)

 

[knownone]

I've always viewed Morris having more potential as a number 7 in the vein as David Villa.

This team looks good. It wouldn't surprise me if Ivanschitz has an MVP worthy year. Valdez may not be the scoring threat that Oba is, but he is a much more dynamic distributor and his movement off the ball is world class.

This is the first time in a long time that we've had an open DP slot and I can't really decide who i'd wanna replace. I'd like to see a box to box midfielder, but I don't thinks it's really a necessity.

 

[Uncle Si]

Good shout on the Villa comparison as he played both the 9 and 7 frequent. As the 7 he was always tucked in and playing off Messi and Iniesta. I think Fabregas finally pushed him to the bench when he initially arrived from Arsenal. Morris has similar physical qualities and somewhat similar attributes going forward. He will need to improve his connectivity to remain tucked in.

Exciting player without a doubt. Hope he settles well and it leads to a huge summer with USMMT.

 

[Smurf]

Si, you are 100% right. Its a 4231. Ivanschitz and Dempsey splitting timenat CAM. Morris are RAM.



And a beauty of a free kick by Dempsey...

 

[Smurf]

1-1 at half.

Need to score in the Azteca now...

 

[knownone]

Incredibly disappointing to give up two away goals. Luckily this team has the savvy to get a goal or two in Mexico, still frustrating.

 

[Smurf]

Incredibly disappointing to give up two away goals. Luckily this team has the savvy to get a goal or two in Mexico, still frustrating.

It certainly makes the narrative easier....Win the game, win the tie.


I liked our formation today. I though the front 4 were really solid. Dempsey looked the best he's looked in a while. Really relished playing under Valdez. Interchanged nicely with Ivanschitz, and put in some work defensively to boot. Dempsey was our best player for sure, Second I think goes to Joevin Jones. What pick up that kid is. Allows mears to stay deep defensively, overlaps on the left and looks to have decent service. He's also extremely confident on the ball.


Disappointed to draw 2-2 at home, but I am pleased with our progress and how the system looks at this point.

 

[SeatownJay]

Seattle's defense has been questionable all pre-season and it was exposed last night. I don't see any way we win away.

 

[Uncle Si]

Incredibly disappointing to give up two away goals. Luckily this team has the savvy to get a goal or two in Mexico, still frustrating.

It certainly makes the narrative easier....Win the game, win the tie.


I liked our formation today. I though the front 4 were really solid. Dempsey looked the best he's looked in a while. Really relished playing under Valdez. Interchanged nicely with Ivanschitz, and put in some work defensively to boot. Dempsey was our best player for sure, Second I think goes to Joevin Jones. What pick up that kid is. Allows mears to stay deep defensively, overlaps on the left and looks to have decent service. He's also extremely confident on the ball.


Disappointed to draw 2-2 at home, but I am pleased with our progress and how the system looks at this point.

Not sure we saw the same game...

The front three created some chances, but Morris wasn't on the ball enough and the whole formation is an invitation for the opponent to counter attack, which is what CA did well enough. The midfield wasnt nearly involved enough defensively when your front three arent tasked with defending that often. That left a fairly loose back line without enough protection and it was exposed. CA was able to carve through spaces and channels without much struggle far too often and I thought fashioned far better chances to score.

Overall, I'd say 2-2 was somewhat fair, but conceding just moments after taking the lead in a match of this significance is hugely disappointing. Conceding again up a goal before heading down to Mexico is probably the decider. I dont think CA will be resting half its starters for the return leg.

Savvy enough to score in Mexico? I'm not sure i've ever seen Sigi set his team up tactically to address a specific need or situation. Both Sounders goals came on set pieces, one a stunner. Sounders were outplayed at home and now must travel to maybe the toughest stadium in the world and win a game? It will be interesting to see adjustments Sigi makes to his lineup because last night's set up won't work in Mexico.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Not sure we saw the same game...

The front three created some chances, but Morris wasn't on the ball enough and the whole formation is an invitation for the opponent to counter attack, which is what CA did well enough. The midfield wasnt nearly involved enough defensively when your front three arent tasked with defending that often. That left a fairly loose back line without enough protection and it was exposed. CA was able to carve through spaces and channels without much struggle far too often and I thought fashioned far better chances to score. .

Not entirely fair of a criticism considering this is what, our 3rd or 4th match playing the 4-3-3 with players learning their roles.............AND thrown into the fire against one of the best teams in Liga MX.

Yes the defensive form was terrible, but I loved seeing a more fluid offensive attack with Dempsey roaming everywhere to create, and even help out on defense.

IMO Ozzie and Ivanschitz need to do a better job of not pushing too far forward and leaving the CB's exposed for the counter. When Dempsey's pushing forward, one of both of Ozzie and/or Ivanshchitz need to drop center so there's not all that space that started all those counters.

I also think once Torres comes back that'll help immensely. I hate Evans at CB, he tries hard but he's just too short and makes too many critical mistakes to be dependable.

Overall for the first real competitive match of the year against a very good Liga MX club? I thought we played well, especially on the offensive end. Morris will come around, you could tell there were some nerves there with some of his bad touches.

 

[Uncle Si]

Aren't you in these competitions to win games?

That was a weakened CA team (literally half of their first 11) and at home... and still they controlled good portions of the game (and field).

the 433 is not some new brain child that Sigi put together. Most of these players have been in it before, and noone was citing its frailties when it battered LA 4-0 the other day.

I think its fair criticism. While you can have some inconsistencies in getting your season jump started, it's a bit silly to blow two leads against a weakened squad at home in a major competition then say your team has the "savvy" to score goals in the away leg. If they had the savvy, they'd have an advantage right now.

This is my disdain for Sigi, and I'm sad he's still the manager of Seattle.

 

[Smurf]

CA played 9 of 11 that played the previous gsme domestically...


Ill have a larger response after i get home.

 

[knownone]

CA played 9 of 11 that played the previous gsme domestically...


Ill have a larger response after i get home.

Yep. That was about as close to CA's A+ team as you're gonna get on a mid week game. In some ways Seattle was unfortunate that CA had two players on red cards in league play, who knows if they play if they weren't suspended.

Seattle did really well under the circumstances.