Preach it Danny O'Neill!

[MontanaHawk05]

How many threads are you going to post the same thing in Nash?

Am I the only one that said it?

If the front office used your logic, they would have reached and grabbed a guard, or tackle while passing up a player in a different position that is far superior.

I wouldnt have traded down to accumulate a bunch of reach picks and used our first or second pick for our biggest need,,,,,,left tackle. I'd love to see them use the quality over quantity approach once in this FO's tenure. The biggest thing I would have changed is taking Bocic where they did and spent that pick on superior DB talent which was available at the time. Bocic might not even play this season. That was a waste in my book.

You're still assuming an awful lot about the talent that was available.

If I told you that Obi wouldn't have played this year and all the tackles you liked were no better than Joeckel, how would you feel about our draft choices?

 

[nash72]

Its not like they haven't invested draft capital in the O-line in the first round before (3 in the first round since 2010).

I think having another year under their belt will make a difference on the o-line, and keep in mind that they did bring in some other experienced guys in FA who I think will help shore up the line.

Okung and Carpenter went on to other teams and had success. Do you ever think it might be us? Ifedi still has a lot to prove.

I hope your right about the line. Russell Wilsons career depends on it.

 

[nash72]

If the front office used your logic, they would have reached and grabbed a guard, or tackle while passing up a player in a different position that is far superior.

I wouldnt have traded down to accumulate a bunch of reach picks and used our first or second pick for our biggest need,,,,,,left tackle. I'd love to see them use the quality over quantity approach once in this FO's tenure. The biggest thing I would have changed is taking Bocic where they did and spent that pick on superior DB talent which was available at the time. Bocic might not even play this season. That was a waste in my book.

You're still assuming an awful lot about the talent that was available.

If I told you that Obi wouldn't have played this year and all the tackles you liked were no better than Joeckel, how would you feel about our draft choices?

I wouldnt believe you on either account. There were 4 tackles in the early rounds that were worth taking a chance on and we missed on 3 of them. Obi would have and will play.

I admit that I could be wrong though.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I totally agree with O'Neill............and it perpetuates my criticism of our FO and coaching staff when it comes to their broken philosophy of drafting and acquiring players that are mediocre at 2-3 positions, but not great at one.

Is it really that awesome if you have a player that can play two positions, but be mediocre at both and not great at one?

Because that's what we have now, 10 offensive lineman that can play anywhere along the line, but none of them are great at any of them.

 

[sdog1981]

I totally agree with O'Neill............and it perpetuates my criticism of our FO and coaching staff when it comes to their broken philosophy of drafting and acquiring players that are mediocre at 2-3 positions, but not great at one.

Is it really that awesome if you have a player that can play two positions, but be mediocre at both and not great at one?

Because that's what we have now, 10 offensive lineman that can play anywhere along the line, but none of them are great at any of them.

How many more draft picks and free agents must be wasted on this philosophy? The team is almost over 100 transactions including draft picks on the Oline ALONE, since the current line coach took over. When is enough, enough?

 

[scutterhawk]

Take a guy like Glowinski. He didn't have a dazzling season a year ago, but he didn't stand out in a negative manner, either, like what was happening at the tackle spots. Give him another year, with firmer roots at LG, and I think we'll be solid there.

So that part of Danny's column I get. I don't think it applies as much to Pocic, though. His versatility is his trademark, so find a spot for him, but let him take some practice reps at center to keep him sharp. Likely means Hunt is off the roster, but he really had a long ways to go as indicated by that rough game he started.

Unless Fant makes huge strides, I see Joeckel at LT. Bringing in Senior and Roos, guys who actually played tackle in college for more than one season, should give the staff a good comparison evaluation to gauge Fant's progress after a year and two offseasons.

Yep.....Folks like Danny O'Neill and a few others that are stuck on a single facet of the Seahawks Offensive woes, are touting like THEY know how to build an Offense better than the Super Bowl Winning Experts do.
Pete Carroll & Tom Cable haven't just all the sudden "Gotten Stupid"
My biggest peeve with some of their "Off The Cuff" renderings, is that they are ignoring "The Rest Of The Story".
Everybody was Okie Dokie with Pete Carroll's two prong attack, and Tom Cable's O-line was opening holes for the 'BEAST' to run thru.
With two outstanding scramblers on Offense, the O-Line was working as DESIGNED.
Lynch gets hurt, and what had been the Seahawks meat & Potatoes concept has to be scrapped....O-line has to be re-structured for pass Protection, in other words, "Changing Horses In The Middle Of The Stream"
Pete Carroll's Running Attack, that helps keep the passing game viable, and also aids in the Passing attack is in disarray right now......Lacey?......Carson?...Are we on the cusp of rejuvenating the Run Game???
O-Line isn't being ignored, despite the nonsense that all the naysayers be spouting

 

[Sgt. Largent]

How many more draft picks and free agents must be wasted on this philosophy? The team is almost over 100 transactions including draft picks on the Oline ALONE, since the current line coach took over. When is enough, enough?

idk, great question.


To play Devil's Advocate though, it's not entirely on John and Pete for this philosophy. The college game is garbage with very few teams running pro style offenses developing lineman properly.

So it's not like the old days where the draft was full of 3-4 year centers, guards and tackles and all you had to do was pick a couple every year to fill your holes along the O-line with no learning curves other than learning your plays.

 

[keatonisballin]

Has it been confirmed Pocic will be competing with Britt for the starting job? Apparently Pocic can play every position on the line. So maybe they move him to G?

 

[nash72]

Everybody was Okie Dokie with Pete Carroll's two prong attack, and Tom Cable's O-line was opening holes for the 'BEAST' to run thru.

Lynch led the league in yardage after contact. He was as much a part of his success as the line.

 

[chris98251]

Its not like they haven't invested draft capital in the O-line in the first round before (3 in the first round since 2010).

I think having another year under their belt will make a difference on the o-line, and keep in mind that they did bring in some other experienced guys in FA who I think will help shore up the line.

Okung and Carpenter went on to other teams and had success. Do you ever think it might be us? Ifedi still has a lot to prove.

I hope your right about the line. Russell Wilsons career depends on it.

Yeah and are you listing why?

No, it's scheme and system, Okung knew our system and Denver uses it also, Okung could have stayed but went for the dollars, Carpenter was not a good fit here in our system, Jets use the drive blocking type system and not the zone, why he and Breno both had success in New York. It is also why they look at a players feet, for quickness and agility. Lumbering guys won't do well here.

The other factor is Cable teaches technique, when Lineman leave here they are miles ahead of when they were drafted in technique, our cap situation makes it hard to keep our own guys because they are marketable and wanted therefore we get outbid.

 

[hawkfan68]

Take a guy like Glowinski. He didn't have a dazzling season a year ago, but he didn't stand out in a negative manner, either, like what was happening at the tackle spots. Give him another year, with firmer roots at LG, and I think we'll be solid there.

So that part of Danny's column I get. I don't think it applies as much to Pocic, though. His versatility is his trademark, so find a spot for him, but let him take some practice reps at center to keep him sharp. Likely means Hunt is off the roster, but he really had a long ways to go as indicated by that rough game he started.

Unless Fant makes huge strides, I see Joeckel at LT. Bringing in Senior and Roos, guys who actually played tackle in college for more than one season, should give the staff a good comparison evaluation to gauge Fant's progress after a year and two offseasons.

Yep.....Folks like Danny O'Neill and a few others that are stuck on a single facet of the Seahawks Offensive woes, are touting like THEY know how to build an Offense better than the Super Bowl Winning Experts do.
Pete Carroll & Tom Cable haven't just all the sudden "Gotten Stupid"
My biggest peeve with some of their "Off The Cuff" renderings, is that they are ignoring "The Rest Of The Story".
Everybody was Okie Dokie with Pete Carroll's two prong attack, and Tom Cable's O-line was opening holes for the 'BEAST' to run thru.
With two outstanding scramblers on Offense, the O-Line was working as DESIGNED.
Lynch gets hurt, and what had been the Seahawks meat & Potatoes concept has to be scrapped....O-line has to be re-structured for pass Protection, in other words, "Changing Horses In The Middle Of The Stream"
Pete Carroll's Running Attack, that helps keep the passing game viable, and also aids in the Passing attack is in disarray right now......Lacey?......Carson?...Are we on the cusp of rejuvenating the Run Game???
O-Line isn't being ignored, despite the nonsense that all the naysayers be spouting

Many can argue that the OL looked better because of Lynch and Wilson's ability to make something from nothing. With that said the OL was much better personnel wise in 2013-2014 than it is now, that's for sure.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Has it been confirmed Pocic will be competing with Britt for the starting job? Apparently Pocic can play every position on the line. So maybe they move him to G?

I think he's going to compete for one of the starting guard jobs, and to push Britt who btw is a FA next year. So Pocic is also insurance in case we don't (or don't want to) resign Britt next off season.

But for 2017? I think Pocic is one of our guards, especially if Ifedi is moved to tackle.

 

[Hawknight]

It will never work. Pete's program is a disgrace. What are they doing? This team has sucked for so many years. It's time for a big change.
























What do you mean our Offensive Line looks foolish, what did Cable do to you to make you think that way? I think our cheerleaders are doing one hell of a job on the sidelines and Caroll should quit trying to dance around the sidelines and show them how it's done... :sarcasm_off:

Oh wait..this is why I don't post anymore


If I had a nickle for every one of these posts/threads.

If I had a nickle for every one of these posts that completely miss the point of the thread in a failed attempt to pass judgement on the OP, all while trying to look like the superior poster.

And your hyperbole comes off as contrived, while confirming that you missed the point entirely.

Just so that you understand, this thread is about a story written by Danny O'Neill. I didn't write it, he did.

I'm agreeing with his premise. Maybe you should read and understand a post before passing judgement. People who judge a thread they neither read nor understood usually end up looking foolish.

 

[Schadie001]

2016-2017 Division Champs
2015-2016 Playoffs lost in NFC Championship
2014-2015 Division Champs - Lost in Superbowl/ NFC Champs
2013-2014 Division Champs - Won Superbowl
2012-2013 Playoffs lost in Divisional Round
2010-2011 Playoffs lost in Divisional Round

Not too bad in my book for a bunch scrubs who just can't figure it out what to do on the Oline. Guess we should go back to prior to the PC/JS era when it worked out so great so us.

 

[MrThortan]

Thing about rookies is that they are young and still can be trained up with new techniques and positions. The transition from guard to tackle is not as big as another defensive convert and Pocic considers himself a "lineman" as apposed to a center/guard/tackle. College coaches don't always evaluate their players to the best positions either, and often have them playing in the wrong role. Our first pick in this draft is an example of that. I do agree though, that a certain level of continuity is a good. You got to figure out an individuals best fit and let them build from there.

I am not expecting miracles in 2017, but I do expect the line to be markedly better. They should improvement throughout the 2016 season and I expect it to continue. Seahawks' Oline is really young. I certainly hope this is the year things really click.

 

[Hawks46]

I get what Oneil is saying, but some of it is out of context.

Using Ifedi as an example is superficial at best. Lots of teams draft a guy to play Tackle, but season him for a year at Guard.

Miami just did it with La'el Collins, a much better prospect than Ifedi was.

It's also why Tackle is such a coveted position. If a guy works out, it's great for you, if not you can typically slide him inside and get value for the pick anyways.

I get why we're unsettled at OL, but we need to keep Britt at Center. After that, I theorize the plan was always to have Ifedi play Guard a year then slide him outside. He has characteristics that lend themselves better to Tackle. His stance is too upright for a Guard, but Tackles tend to have a more upright stance.

That leaves RG open. Also, I'm not jumping on Glowinski, but the talent could be improved. So we draft a versatile guy that can plug in most places, and back up Britt if need be. People do get injured.

We had a young OL last year. They need to be able to grow, but looking at the line, Gilliam is gone and Fant is at least a year away. What choice do we really have ?

 

[naholmes]

I'm not seeing a lack continuity, in fact it will be better than the past couple seasons. We lost Gilliam and Sowell, both tackles, and added Joeckel, Aboushi, and Pocic; this isn't a huge amount of turnover and I think most will agree that the talent level will be higher this season. To make up for the loss of RT the talk is to slide Ifedi out, which is a positional played in college. While it's a departure from last season, it shouldn't be a huge change for Ifedi because most of his experience is at tackle. For the opening at guard, we have Aboushi and Pocic competing and they both have experience at guard. Joeckel should be in the mix at LT and LG, both positions he has pro experience at. Pocic also has experience to backup C, should Britt get injured. I wouldn't be surprised if they give Britt some looks at RT, if it is a problem area in the preseason, but that would be a last resort type thing and Britt was actually drafted as a tackle initially.

Where is the lack of continuity? Every lineman is competing at a position where they have prior experience, with the goal to get the best five guys on the field together. Now if Pocic sits on the bench all season then they let Britt walk and replace him with Pocic, then I will view the pick differently. Hopefully that will not be the case.

 

[AgentDib]

Always Compete vs. Establish Continuity. There is an interesting discussion to be had about how these objectives can conflict with each other. However, the potential for a problem is just something to be aware of and does not mean the problem necessarily exists. We can all agree that we have had not had much continuity lately.

The primary factor has been that most of our departed linemen were simply paid very well by opposing teams. It's sort of a win for both sides in that our OL development looks very strong, we get compensatory picks from the departed players, and the opposing teams get the players that we spent a lot of time developing. It's definitely a loss for us in the continuity department though. I do not see any reason to blame 'Always Compete' for losing Okung, Unger, Carpenter, Sweezy, or Giacomini. Injury history and FA market value explain 100% of these outcomes.

That being said there are a few players that may have been pushed out by 'Always Compete'. This is 100% fan speculation but Bailey, Moffitt, and Gilliam appeared to play better than their competition on Sundays on a superficial level. Perhaps there may have been issues with them at practices or behind closed doors in other areas, perhaps on a deeper level they just weren't contributing in ways that it's hard for us to see from the outside. Time has not looked favorably on either Bailey or Moffitt after leaving the team as neither of them has played a full season for another team. With 20/20 hindsight it may have been a good thing to move on from both of them. Gilliam is still an open question and so we'll have to see how he plays for the 49ers this year.

Lastly, the constant OL adjustments last summer were a major source of Competition vs. Continuity tension. The team comments were all about versatility and finding the best group via competition and so there was legitimate concern that they were severely underrating continuity. However, consider the benefit of hindsight there; knowing how raw Fant was and that Sowell and Webb would not work out. it's reasonable that the team was trying to put a good spin on needing to find any working lineup of 5 OL. The proof will be in the pudding this off-season as I'd like to have our starting five OL set prior to the first preseason game. If we do not then that will be a time to worry about this issue further.

 

[chris98251]

Well remember something from last season, when we diverged from the pure ZBS and went to the power run scheme mix up we began to have success, the lineman were better at power and drive blocking and getting to the second level in some instances.

That improved the run game dramatically down the stretch, it just about the time Reese also was showcased more and was used as a lead blocker which again fit Power run and drive blocking and not the no huddle spread ZBS scheme we used the first half of the year.

 

[Sealake80]

PC and JS drafted RW, ET, RS, KJ, BW, KC... brought in MB, CA, ML!

It is a fans job to nitpick - have fun with that - but lets not miss the forest through the trees.

I bet you the line is a little better this year on O. That will be good. It is sad we couldnt have everything all the time.... thats how NFL works. Choices are made. On D our line is gonna killllllllll! Get ready for a great year. Enjoy the crow doubters!