Reasons why the Hawks will turn it around..

AROS

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Of course they can turn it around and if history is any indicator I would say it's likely they do.

In the past 11 years the last thing you should ever do is count this team out, period. We may not end up with a gawdy record at the end of the year but I will bet all my biscuits the Seahawks will have a good enough record to compete for that final wild card spot AND get it!

We have to lower expectations this year. We wont be 2021 NFC West Champions. Who cares? Other than a t-shirt and hat, it matters not. Just get in and see if we can catch fire. Stranger things have happened!

Go Hawks!!!
 

TwistedHusky

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If Russ comes back, we are a wildcard.

IF not, we aren't and miss the playoffs entirely.

Either way, we lose to whatever non-wildcard team we play in the playoffs.

So not sure there is much change coming.

Maybe missing the playoffs? But if not, expect the same results we normally got for the past 5 years.
 

AgentDib

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pittpnthrs":15tb5ljm said:
Good lord. The Saints played their worst game of the season against Seattle and Carroll ran the same running play 9 times in a row into a stacked box instead of trying something that might have worked.
I think you understand that a) it was many different run calls, b) the box was not "stacked" on most of them, c) Geno was making calls based on what he saw at the line, and d) how the Saints were playing had something to do with both the Seahawks and the weather that we were equally facing. Why are you pushing a simplified faulty narrative that you don't believe?

Perhaps it would be an interesting discussion, on a discussion forum, to pick one of those plays specifically and break down what worked and didn't work about it. Making stuff up to fit into an agenda is boring.
 
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LTH

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TwistedHusky":3dnry2v6 said:
If Russ comes back, we are a wildcard.

IF not, we aren't and miss the playoffs entirely.

Either way, we lose to whatever non-wildcard team we play in the playoffs.

So not sure there is much change coming.

Maybe missing the playoffs? But if not, expect the same results we normally got for the past 5 years.


OMG :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: I am in shock... welcome on board the thrill train LMAO!!!!!!!!

Positivity

Thats its boys... if Russ comes back were makin the playoffs !!!!!! Twisted Husky said so!!!!

LOL


LTH
 
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LTH

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Aros":158e0d7q said:
Of course they can turn it around and if history is any indicator I would say it's likely they do.

In the past 11 years the last thing you should ever do is count this team out, period. We may not end up with a gawdy record at the end of the year but I will bet all my biscuits the Seahawks will have a good enough record to compete for that final wild card spot AND get it!

We have to lower expectations this year. We wont be 2021 NFC West Champions. Who cares? Other than a t-shirt and hat, it matters not. Just get in and see if we can catch fire. Stranger things have happened!

Go Hawks!!!


i'm confused... i'm not sure what you believe... after the loss to the ain'ts you agreed with the doubters fire Pete.. now your saying you believe the Hawks have a chance to make the playoffs?

not sure where you stand unless you think Pete should be fired but yet they are good enough to make the playoffs?

have your expectations changed? or am i misunderstanding your position?

LTH
 

pittpnthrs

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AgentDib":28864y5s said:
pittpnthrs":28864y5s said:
Good lord. The Saints played their worst game of the season against Seattle and Carroll ran the same running play 9 times in a row into a stacked box instead of trying something that might have worked.
I think you understand that a) it was many different run calls, b) the box was not "stacked" on most of them, c) Geno was making calls based on what he saw at the line, and d) how the Saints were playing had something to do with both the Seahawks and the weather that we were equally facing. Why are you pushing a simplified faulty narrative that you don't believe?

Perhaps it would be an interesting discussion, on a discussion forum, to pick one of those plays specifically and break down what worked and didn't work about it. Making stuff up to fit into an agenda is boring.

I was wrong. It was 6 straight times, not 9. My bad. The Saints were stacked as the run calls were obvious (they did pick up a 1st down though), but I do agree with you about the weather effecting the Saints play (not so much Seattle) as they just thumped the defending Super Bowl champs with their backup QB.

It would be an interesting discussion, but I dont have a breakdown of all 6 runs. I just remember saying WTF when it was going on.
 

AgentDib

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Let's talk about that failed drive then with more specifics, because most of those running plays were creative and worked well. We had to punt because that 6th running play failed on a 3rd and 1 but even that call looked decent.

For starters, it's impossible to analyze defensive alignments in real-time from the broadcast footage. What Geno sees is not what you see as the viewer, and any real analysis depends on the endzone angle which the NFL hasn't been releasing until Wednesdays this year. Takes before then can only be guesswork, no matter how many likes the person posting about it has.

1st and 10 - 3 yard rush
Hawks come out in 12 personnel while the Saints are in big nickel with CGJ lining up on the strong side in wide 9. The Saints have DTs at 2i and 3 with DEs at 5 strongside and 9 weakside (LEO). That leaves the strongside B gap and weakside A gap "open", but they have a Mike and a Will at the second level with the LCB cheating up with eyes on the strongside B gap.

Geno sends Everett on a jet sweep towards the strong side of the formation while handing the ball off to Collins who is heading for the weakside A gap.

The offensive line is angle blocking to the weak side and have a blocker for every defender. Brown and Lewis clear out the RDE and RDT respectively and Fuller does an OK job getting to the Will LB. Gabe Jackson gets bulled into the A gap by Ringo, which forces Collins to hesitate and then Ringo makes the tackle. While it looks like Jackson is primarily the one who gets beat, it's very possible that Fuller was supposed to briefly double team Ringo before moving to the second level. That's something that they do a lot, including on the unsuccessful 3rd and 1 later in the drive. Either way, it looks like Collins probably should have had at least 5-6 yards if the OL had blocked Ringo better.

2nd and 7 - 6 yard rush
The Hawks swap to 11 personnel and the Saints respond with a bizarre pass rush package pulling their DTs off the field. They have their Mike LB lined up inside as a 1 tech (threatening blitz), three wide DEs and then two safeties at the second level. I have no idea what the Saints were thinking here but it looks like Geno calls the correct strongside run play for a decent gain. One of the wide aligned DEs is just a second late to Collins in the backfield, so maybe it could have worked but they shelved that alignment after one failure.

3rd and 1 - QB sneak for 1st down pickup.
I won't dwell on this one. The QB sneak always looks good when it works and bad when it doesn't.

1st and 10 - 4 yard run
The Hawks go back to 12 personnel with both TEs now lined up on the left side of the formation (making it the strong side). The Saints respond by mirroring their first alignment, except their Mike is now way over to the strong side to cover the Dissly if he runs a route. The Hawks angle block down to the weak-side and have three blockers for three defenders. Unfortunately it looks like Shell and Jackson miscommunicate as both pick up the LDE which allows the Will LB to get in front of Collins and force him to cut back. I'm tempted to put this one slightly on Jackson as he looks a bit lost at the snap but we'll never know. This one had more potential then it was blocked for.

2nd and 6 - 5 yard run
Hawks are in 11 personnel and the Saints are again light in the box with six defenders (4 DL 2 LBs 2nd level). This looks like Geno is checking to the run but that isn't clear from either the broadcast or endzone footage.

The strong side of the formation is to the right as Dissly lines up next to Shell, and the line angle blocks to the strong side at the snap. Collins does a very nice job on this play being patient, reading the hole, and then hitting it and keeping his feet going to work himself up field.

3rd and 1 - 0 yard run
This is the one rush that doesn't work, and it ends the drive as a result. It's again unclear whether this play was changed or not; the Saints defense is trying to line themselves up until the snap but that isn't dispositive. The Hawks are back in our heavier 12 personnel package and the Saints bring out something new, with their DTs two gapping inside, DEs supporting the B gaps, and two safeties threatening a blitz.

It looks like our offensive line wasn't well coordinated here. Cameron Jordan throws in a last minute wrinkle by shifting inside immediately before the snap, but the right side of our line gets clogged up and Fuller kind of ends up blocking nobody. In hindsight, this may have been worth spending a timeout or possibly this is one of the reasons why we saw Pocic get back onto the field as soon as he was healthy enough to play.

If we are looking specifically to blame the coaching staff for this punt then I would focus on the execution of the last play and the blocking assignments. I don't see a problem with any of the six play calls. They make sense in context, they aren't running into disadvantaged situations (usually the opposite), and all six are completely different concepts (as is the defense each time).
 

hawks85

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GB is really good and I have zero faith anything will change. IF we play like we did against the colts WE might have a chance. PC is a stubborn old man that is stuck in his ways. I just don't see it happening. The Seahawks basically have to win out because the other teams own the tie breakers over us, and they will probably finish strong. The Seahawks can't afford to lose any more games.
 

hawker84

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Sgt. Largent":32qvd1au said:
hawker84":32qvd1au said:
pittpnthrs":32qvd1au said:
LTH":32qvd1au said:
. The Hawks have some issues but they are working out of them and this is due to great coaching unlike so many want to admit...

Good lord. The Saints played their worst game of the season against Seattle and Carroll ran the same running play 9 times in a row into a stacked box instead of trying something that might have worked. Your perspective of that is that it was great coaching because they didnt turn the ball over. Lol. WTF

You just gotta scratch your head sometimes and move on. Some folks just refuse to take the blinders off..

Blinders is not seeing that Pete is a stubborn old coach that takes WAY too long to make the necessary adjustments in game, and during scheme and gameplan sessions.

And yes, the Saints game is a perfect example. He didn't bracket Kamara until the 4th quarter, AFTER he ripped up our defense over and over, and is literally the only good runner/receiver on the Saints roster with Thomas hurt. That's a high school level gameplan going into the game, let alone during the game.

And yes, running into a 8-9 man box over and over cause establishing the run sorta worked in Pittsburgh the week before, and punting in the Saints territory when you're backup QB is struggling to score points is insanity.

If I could wave my magic wand and just have Pete be responsible for the Hawk's culture and organizational top to bottom structure.......and not coach? I'd wave that wand in a heartbeat.

But that's not possible, and you'll see it's not possible when Russell demands to be traded again and forced Jody Allen's hand in the off season.

I agree with all that 100%....
 
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LTH

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AgentDib":32q1l7db said:
Let's talk about that failed drive then with more specifics, because most of those running plays were creative and worked well. We had to punt because that 6th running play failed on a 3rd and 1 but even that call looked decent.

For starters, it's impossible to analyze defensive alignments in real-time from the broadcast footage. What Geno sees is not what you see as the viewer, and any real analysis depends on the endzone angle which the NFL hasn't been releasing until Wednesdays this year. Takes before then can only be guesswork, no matter how many likes the person posting about it has.

1st and 10 - 3 yard rush
Hawks come out in 12 personnel while the Saints are in big nickel with CGJ lining up on the strong side in wide 9. The Saints have DTs at 2i and 3 with DEs at 5 strongside and 9 weakside (LEO). That leaves the strongside B gap and weakside A gap "open", but they have a Mike and a Will at the second level with the LCB cheating up with eyes on the strongside B gap.

Geno sends Everett on a jet sweep towards the strong side of the formation while handing the ball off to Collins who is heading for the weakside A gap.

The offensive line is angle blocking to the weak side and have a blocker for every defender. Brown and Lewis clear out the RDE and RDT respectively and Fuller does an OK job getting to the Will LB. Gabe Jackson gets bulled into the A gap by Ringo, which forces Collins to hesitate and then Ringo makes the tackle. While it looks like Jackson is primarily the one who gets beat, it's very possible that Fuller was supposed to briefly double team Ringo before moving to the second level. That's something that they do a lot, including on the unsuccessful 3rd and 1 later in the drive. Either way, it looks like Collins probably should have had at least 5-6 yards if the OL had blocked Ringo better.

2nd and 7 - 6 yard rush
The Hawks swap to 11 personnel and the Saints respond with a bizarre pass rush package pulling their DTs off the field. They have their Mike LB lined up inside as a 1 tech (threatening blitz), three wide DEs and then two safeties at the second level. I have no idea what the Saints were thinking here but it looks like Geno calls the correct strongside run play for a decent gain. One of the wide aligned DEs is just a second late to Collins in the backfield, so maybe it could have worked but they shelved that alignment after one failure.

3rd and 1 - QB sneak for 1st down pickup.
I won't dwell on this one. The QB sneak always looks good when it works and bad when it doesn't.

1st and 10 - 4 yard run
The Hawks go back to 12 personnel with both TEs now lined up on the left side of the formation (making it the strong side). The Saints respond by mirroring their first alignment, except their Mike is now way over to the strong side to cover the Dissly if he runs a route. The Hawks angle block down to the weak-side and have three blockers for three defenders. Unfortunately it looks like Shell and Jackson miscommunicate as both pick up the LDE which allows the Will LB to get in front of Collins and force him to cut back. I'm tempted to put this one slightly on Jackson as he looks a bit lost at the snap but we'll never know. This one had more potential then it was blocked for.

2nd and 6 - 5 yard run
Hawks are in 11 personnel and the Saints are again light in the box with six defenders (4 DL 2 LBs 2nd level). This looks like Geno is checking to the run but that isn't clear from either the broadcast or endzone footage.

The strong side of the formation is to the right as Dissly lines up next to Shell, and the line angle blocks to the strong side at the snap. Collins does a very nice job on this play being patient, reading the hole, and then hitting it and keeping his feet going to work himself up field.

3rd and 1 - 0 yard run
This is the one rush that doesn't work, and it ends the drive as a result. It's again unclear whether this play was changed or not; the Saints defense is trying to line themselves up until the snap but that isn't dispositive. The Hawks are back in our heavier 12 personnel package and the Saints bring out something new, with their DTs two gapping inside, DEs supporting the B gaps, and two safeties threatening a blitz.

It looks like our offensive line wasn't well coordinated here. Cameron Jordan throws in a last minute wrinkle by shifting inside immediately before the snap, but the right side of our line gets clogged up and Fuller kind of ends up blocking nobody. In hindsight, this may have been worth spending a timeout or possibly this is one of the reasons why we saw Pocic get back onto the field as soon as he was healthy enough to play.

If we are looking specifically to blame the coaching staff for this punt then I would focus on the execution of the last play and the blocking assignments. I don't see a problem with any of the six play calls. They make sense in context, they aren't running into disadvantaged situations (usually the opposite), and all six are completely different concepts (as is the defense each time).

i didn't have a problem with the run plays... more importantly they didn't turn the ball over with a stupid INT or a fumble off a sack.. the way I saw it was they were having problem protecting Geno against that saints front 7... it was raining ...I had no problem with the play call but I think you and I were the only ones in Seattle who didn't have a problem with it...

Edit: the other part of it is if they make the 3rd and 1 they look brilliant... imposing there will upon the other team... if they don't make it everybody is pissed off and says its poor play calling... I say not so much... it is what it is...



LTH
 
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LTH

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There are other factors that nobody is thinking about... the last 3 games Seattle has made it apparent that at some point in the 4th they are going to try and run the ball down the opposing teams throat trying to impose there will on the other team... It's brilliant in the fact that teams are seeing this on film and at some point Pete is setting them up for a play action pass for a big play...this is coming...


LTH
 
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