Pete Carrols philosphy

[Natethegreat]

Its been said many times lately but this article once again reinforces that this is Petes team and follows his lead including the offense.
If we were to part ways with Bevell not much is going to change.It may be frustrating at times watching us struggle but in the end they have a plan and it has been successful.


http://www.seahawks.com/news/2016/09/21 ... nning-game

"There was a time in Pete Carroll’s career when, being a defensive-minded head coach, he was content to let his offensive coordinator run the offense however that particular coach saw fit.
But coming off of a 6-6 season in his first year as the head coach at USC, Carroll made a decision that would help change the direction of his career. Having already been fired from his previous two head coaching gigs, both in the NFL, Carroll decided between the 2001 and 2002 seasons that if he were going to go down, he’d go down doing things his way on both sides of the ball."

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

So does Pete think it's a good idea to go empty backfield on 4th and inches? Is he the one that calls plays in the red zone that utilize the team's 6'7" TE as a blocker when his best asset has always been as a pass catcher? Is Pete the one deciding to split a 280 lb. fullback out wide like some sort of decoy? Just 3 examples.

No, the overall philosophy would not change, that is for sure.

 

[Natethegreat]

So does Pete think it';s a good idea to go empty backfield on 4th and inches? Is he the one that calls plays in the red zone that utilize the team's 6'7:" TE as a blocker when his best asset has always been as a pass catcher? Is Pete the one deciding to split a 280 lb. fullback out wide like some sort of decoy? Just 3 examples.

No, the overall philosophy would not change, that is for sure.

And I could pick apart some questionable decisions by Bill Belicheck as well. Doesn't make him a poor coach because in the overall picture he is highly successful. You are not going to dominate all your opponents all the time and every play you call won't be the right one.

Edit: by the way this team has not been all that successful on short yardage even with Lynch when trying to just run up the gut. In fact someone put together some statistics saying we were more successful in spread formation in these situations. So I think they are trying to go with what has worked.

 

[johnnyfever]

He has shown his philosophy is a winning philosophy. A balanced approach to an offense with run and pass, as he says is based on cables run ideaology, is a good one. On critical calls, like the superbowl goal line run vs pass, he definitely is in on. I don;t think he micromanages Bevell on the play by play calls. Petes role is more of a Macro approach. He gives bevell the overall picture of what he wants the offense to look like. It is then Bevell's job to implement this gameplan taking into account personnel, injuries, situational calls etc.

As we have seen at the end of last year though, he altered his philosophy a bit and went to a more spread, hurry up shorter passing offense as they came to realize our OL was just not capable of the macro plan he had laid out to start the season.

I think if we lose or the offense continues to stall over the next 2 games, we will see a tweaking of the macro strategy again, and rightly so.

Pete has built an extremely strong defensively minded football team that focuses on having a powerful running attack. This will not change. What he has change and will possibly again is the nuances of the offensive attack.

Where people are frustrated with the offensive playcalls are in the play by play calls going into the men on the field. As Bevell has said, sometimes he is hamstrung by being 1st and 20, which forces them into having to attempt lower success rate passes to make up for the losses, mostly caused by penalties. Holding and false starts continue to plague this team, so hopefully they put a HUGE emphasis on this at practice. When you have a total offense of 250 yds with over a hundred yards taken away with penalties, you are fighting an uphill battle.

I can never see Pete altering his philosophy away from a strong defense power run strategy, but I think he realizes that altering the micro offensive strategy to take focus off of the shortcomings present in personnel is critical to winning.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I've been yelling into the wind over this for years here, to no avail.

Make no mistake, this is Pete's team. He's 100% involved in every aspect of scheme and playcalling philosophy, on both sides of the ball.

That doesn't absolve Bevell or Russell, as they're the one's executing Pete's philosophy. But make no mistake, we have a plain vanilla run first ball control grind down the defense with physical play offense because THAT'S what Pete wants and thinks wins.

 

[sutz]

BTW, saying that he "controls" the offense does not mean that he selects every single offensive call. I do believe that Bevell has some autonomy for most of the game, but has to have Pete's approval on critical calls. Bevell probably calls most of the game, but I suspect that on the really critical plays, we should probably blame Pete more than Bevell, if we must place blame.

 

[LymonHawk]

If Pete didn't approve of the empty backfield plays on short yardage don't you think he'd say something to Bevell about it?

This is Pete's decision as well as Bevell's. So if you're gonna fire one ya gotta fire the other. Or maybe we should fire Paul Allen too? After all he's the one who hired Pete who hired Bevell...no? :mrgreen:

And the whole 'he's faithful to his coaches' spiel just doesn't hold water. Was Bevell his first OC here? Was Cable the first line coach?

 

[Siouxhawk]

Alas, maybe everyone should gain some perspective now as to these slow starts, as applied to both games and season.

Pete wants to dominate our foes with the running game by wearing them down in the first half and then imposing our will in the second half. It sounds like he's hoping Rawls will be the bell cow. Pete also loves the big-strike play, also made possible by the run game as defenses crowd the box.

He's not going to change his ways people. For those of you clamoring for as much scoring in the early quarters as the later ones, I'd advise you to embrace Pete's philosophy and be patient with the system or find a new endeavor to occupy your Sundays for the sake of your well-being. 'Cause he's not going to change anytime soon.

 

[CodeWarrior]

He's not going to change his ways people. For those of you clamoring for as much scoring in the early quarters as the later ones, I'd advise you to embrace Pete's philosophy and be patient with the system or find a new endeavor to occupy your Sundays for the sake of your well-being. 'Cause he's not going to change anytime soon.

Mark me down for some late quarter scoring! Last week we put up zero in the second half.

 

[Siouxhawk]

He's not going to change his ways people. For those of you clamoring for as much scoring in the early quarters as the later ones, I'd advise you to embrace Pete's philosophy and be patient with the system or find a new endeavor to occupy your Sundays for the sake of your well-being. 'Cause he's not going to change anytime soon.

Mark me down for some late quarter scoring! Last week we put up zero in the second half.

Sure, Code. And it's not like we're NEVER going to score in the early portions of the game ... we're just not going to insert a lot of high-risk plays to get it done.
Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith. It sure would be nice for our O line to play together for 2 or 3 years to establish some continuity for a change ... I know, damn salary cap.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

Well of course. You will never hear anything critical from this staff.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

Maybe, the fact is the Hawks are in dead last for yards per carry, and the scary stat I saw is that the paltry 2.7 ypc they're getting all of it except for .4 yards is AFTER contact.

So Cable can say all he wants about the RB's not being patient, but when they can't even go a whole yard without getting hammered..............that's the line, not RB patience.

 

[CodeWarrior]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

Maybe, the fact is the Hawks are in dead last for yards per carry, and the scary stat I saw is that the paltry 2.7 ypc they're getting all of it except for .4 yards is AFTER contact.

So Cable can say all he wants about the RB's not being patient, but when they can't even go a whole yard without getting hammered..............that's the line, not RB patience.

This. This is exactly the stat I was looking for but couldn't find the article that cited it. Lack of a run game rests squarely on the shoulders of the OL. There were points in the game last week that the Rams DL was damn near taking the handoff themselves!

 

[johnnyfever]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

Maybe, the fact is the Hawks are in dead last for yards per carry, and the scary stat I saw is that the paltry 2.7 ypc they're getting all of it except for .4 yards is AFTER contact.

So Cable can say all he wants about the RB's not being patient, but when they can't even go a whole yard without getting hammered..............that's the line, not RB patience.

2 things about this-

This is an average of all runs, even negative plays, which plays into either the line letting pressure through, a playcall wrong for the situation or a wrong read of the defense by russ or the OL.

Secondly- Not being patient and waiting for holes to open could easily be the reason for premature contact, so this reasoning of impatience by rawls is still valid as well.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

Maybe, the fact is the Hawks are in dead last for yards per carry, and the scary stat I saw is that the paltry 2.7 ypc they're getting all of it except for .4 yards is AFTER contact.

So Cable can say all he wants about the RB's not being patient, but when they can't even go a whole yard without getting hammered..............that's the line, not RB patience.

Yeah, relying on the eye test and seeing the revealing stat you just provided, I'm a little suspect of it being that close to coming together. But I'm just a novice, so I hope he's right.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Personally, Im not as concerned with Rawls and C-Mike as much as I am with our line opening up lanes for the run game. But Cable has taught them up before, so I need to have faith.

Cable's presser yesterday (the video is posted at Seahawks.com) was interesting in that he, surprisingly to me, expressed good confidence in the way the OL played in pass-pro. He also said that in the running game, they missed only on about 4 or 5 plays. And Cable said, like Bevell who followed him said too, that while CM hit some Rawls was too anxious, too quick to the line, not patient enough to wait for the hole to open up. Both expressed plenty of confidence that it will turn around, soon.

Maybe, the fact is the Hawks are in dead last for yards per carry, and the scary stat I saw is that the paltry 2.7 ypc they're getting all of it except for .4 yards is AFTER contact.

So Cable can say all he wants about the RB's not being patient, but when they can't even go a whole yard without getting hammered..............that's the line, not RB patience.

2 things about this-

This is an average of all runs, even negative plays, which plays into either the line letting pressure through, a playcall wrong for the situation or a wrong read of the defense by russ or the OL.

Secondly- Not being patient and waiting for holes to open could easily be the reason for premature contact, so this reasoning of impatience by rawls is still valid as well.

Yes, this makes sense too and I should have considered that. Does this also include those plays where Russ tried to run out of a sack and was tracked down for little or no gain? That could skew things too.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Secondly- Not being patient and waiting for holes to open could easily be the reason for premature contact, so this reasoning of impatience by rawls is still valid as well.

.4 yards before contact means the RB is basically to the line before being contacted. If the line's doing their job, the first contact should be at the LEAST 2-3 yards.

I don't disagree with Cable, especially with Rawls. He's been too hyped up and not being patient, but I'd say it's 20% of the time.

Bottom line for me is no one can say this line is blocking well. It's been absolute and utter garbage in the run game.

 

[Natethegreat]

I completely agree that run blocking has been a big issue with our offense so far. I do expect it to change however. In fact I honestly think it changes this week. We have ran well on the 9ers and while its a new regime I see that trend continuing.
Especialy if Ifedi were to make it back this week.

 

[johnnyfever]

completely agree on the not blocking well, but if he runs into a wall at the line of scrimmage as the holes havent opened up this could give these stats as well.

the question is with the poor line-Would the holes have opened up at all?