Another negative Pete Carroll thread

Ozzy

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Dan Quinn has never not been a wonderful coordinator, and Micah had some questions coming out. Not sure he would've instantly put it together elsewhere like he did with Quinn.

I think our bar for success might be a tad bit high if we're negging guys like Quinn for not being the undeniable best in the world. He's a worthy part of any tree, and better than quite a few names on that Walsh tree.

For me, any coach who can go out and coach multiple good to great defenses, churning them out yearly while also updating his scheme, is a stud. He did make a Super Bowl. Most head coaches never do, and he did right away, even if it did end in a hurtful fashion. Atlanta hasn't sniffed much of any success without him. Hard org to win with.
I do think he’s a very good coach but don’t want him here.
 

olyfan63

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Whether or not Carroll is "from" Walsh's coaching tree, it's clear that Bill Walsh was also a major influence on Pete Carroll in the timeframe before Walsh passed from cancer.
 
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toffee

toffee

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Dan Quinn has never not been a wonderful coordinator, and Micah had some questions coming out. Not sure he would've instantly put it together elsewhere like he did with Quinn.

I think our bar for success might be a tad bit high if we're negging guys like Quinn for not being the undeniable best in the world. He's a worthy part of any tree, and better than quite a few names on that Walsh tree.

For me, any coach who can go out and coach multiple good to great defenses, churning them out yearly while also updating his scheme, is a stud. He did make a Super Bowl. Most head coaches never do, and he did right away, even if it did end in a hurtful fashion. Atlanta hasn't sniffed much of any success without him. Hard org to win with.
Dan Quinn is the brightest star on Carroll tree, just that there isn't enough Quinns on that tree.
 

jammerhawk

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PNW, I'm not saying that at all. Pete has had no success improving the D with the last three DCs. That doesn't immediately translate however into he has total power over that D and the DC has zero to do and PC doesn't care about anything but loyalty foregoing any consideration over competence or ability in his DC. The present DC however has shown he isn't up to the task and he's let others go where there is similar inability to deliver upon expectation. I disagree with you characterization of 'ah shucks' after every game, he's not a coach who washes his dirty laundry in public though perhaps to some needs to be calling out the D for doing a poor job.

I'm sorry I just disagree that he isn't in the planning process and the spend on the D seems to argue against that view. However, the D isn't effective notwithstanding and seemingly despite a focus to attempt to improve the run D has gotten worse. Is that on him or the DC who doesn't seem to know WTF he's doing? The tackling has fallen off the cliff to being what I think is now the league worst. is that on him or upon the DC who's job it is to get the D ready to play in the supposed 3-4 scheme he was reputed to have some ability to coordinate? To me the DC has proven he's incapable of doing his job effectively. The team has become a D that can be run over as several team did this season.

It is clear PC'd like to run the ball more but the OLine seems to have difficulty blocking for that to occur. Good teams seem to be able to run the ball when they need to do so. The team is passing more, and now running less. Is that on PC or the OC who has little variation in the type of run play called that could take advantage of the #1 RB who is fast to the edge? The OC has an important function in calling plays and getting the O ready to play. Some variation and improved interior OLine play seem to be needed.

Sadly the the team is has recently become a team that cannot run the ball effectively or rarely is able to do so but clearly cannot stop the run. Changes at both Coordinator spots seem to be needed. Is Pete really just old and washed up or have his coordinators in fact not delivered? there is lots of blame to go around as the buck stops with Pete. but I don't buy into he's unwilling to accept innovation and make changes though he'd better do so this offseason or the cliff is close for the Seahawks to the bottom of the league.
 

Ozzy

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PNW, I'm not saying that at all. Pete has had no success improving the D with the last three DCs. That doesn't immediately translate however into he has total power over that D and the DC has zero to do and PC doesn't care about anything but loyalty foregoing any consideration over competence or ability in his DC. The present DC however has shown he isn't up to the task and he's let others go where there is similar inability to deliver upon expectation. I disagree with you characterization of 'ah shucks' after every game, he's not a coach who washes his dirty laundry in public though perhaps to some needs to be calling out the D for doing a poor job.

I'm sorry I just disagree that he isn't in the planning process and the spend on the D seems to argue against that view. However, the D isn't effective notwithstanding and seemingly despite a focus to attempt to improve the run D has gotten worse. Is that on him or the DC who doesn't seem to know WTF he's doing? The tackling has fallen off the cliff to being what I think is now the league worst. is that on him or upon the DC who's job it is to get the D ready to play in the supposed 3-4 scheme he was reputed to have some ability to coordinate? To me the DC has proven he's incapable of doing his job effectively. The team has become a D that can be run over as several team did this season.

It is clear PC'd like to run the ball more but the OLine seems to have difficulty blocking for that to occur. Good teams seem to be able to run the ball when they need to do so. The team is passing more, and now running less. Is that on PC or the OC who has little variation in the type of run play called that could take advantage of the #1 RB who is fast to the edge? The OC has an important function in calling plays and getting the O ready to play. Some variation and improved interior OLine play seem to be needed.

Sadly the the team is has recently become a team that cannot run the ball effectively or rarely is able to do so but clearly cannot stop the run. Changes at both Coordinator spots seem to be needed. Is Pete really just old and washed up or have his coordinators in fact not delivered? there is lots of blame to go around as the buck stops with Pete. but I don't buy into he's unwilling to accept innovation and make changes though he'd better do so this offseason or the cliff is close for the Seahawks to the bottom of the league.
You don’t have to apologize it’s a reasonable take. I see it a little differently but we’re all throwing darts as we can’t truly know what’s going on. I think we probably agree more than we realize honestly. I love/hate the off season as it’s exiting to see what changes come or don’t come and I get the chance to cheer or complain lol, wouldn’t have it any other way
 

Fade

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Dan Quinn was inherited from Mora. Cut his teeth in the pros with Mora in SF for 4 years. A 5th in Seattle.

The only reason Pete kept him was, Gus Bradley another Monty Kiffin disciple (which Pete also is) signed off on him. If Gus says no, he's gone.

Dan Quinn coached with Pete for 3 seasons. DC for only 2. (Seattle's best 2 seasons on defense.)

Schotty coached with Pete for 3 seasons. Schotty left citing philosophical differences. Basically fired for not doing it how Pete wanted.

It seems the best Pete guys are the ones that hardly worked with him, and technically aren't Pete guys.

Don't use his schemes, and would never work with him again.
 

Maelstrom787

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Dan Quinn was inherited from Mora. Cut his teeth in the pros with Mora in SF for 4 years. A 5th in Seattle.

The only reason Pete kept him was, Gus Bradley another Monty Kiffin disciple (which Pete also is) signed off on him. If Gus says no, he's gone.

Dan Quinn coached with Pete for 3 seasons. DC for only 2. (Seattle's best 2 seasons on defense.)

Schotty coached with Pete for 3 seasons. Schotty left citing philosophical differences. Basically fired for not doing it how Pete wanted.

It seems the best Pete guys are the ones that hardly worked with him, and technically aren't Pete guys.

Don't use his schemes, and would never work with him again.
This standard is a little bit stringent compared to the standard that everyone else applies to every other coaching tree.

Everyone's coaching tree would be a lot smaller if we included only guys that were brought up cradle-to-grave under a single coach, Bill Walsh included.

Wyche and Rhodes legitimately got their start under Walsh. Seifert was a long-time college DB and Head coach. Denny Green was their ST coach for one year under Walsh, and returned to be their WR coach 6 years later for a few years under Walsh. Mike Holmgren didn't get his first coordinator gig until Seifert promoted him from QB coach after Walsh was gone. He was the QB coach under Walsh for 1986-1988, and he was a college QB coach at BYU prior. Mike White coached under Walsh as the OL coach for a single year, which was sandwiched by unrelated long-term college HC stints.

Every legendary coaching tree would be whittled into a mere twig if we applied the same type of stringency you're applying in your post.
 
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